Thinking about what the perfect shaft/BH combination is for upcoming Elk season. I am thinking maybe tapered DougFir with a toughhead up front coming in around 650grns out of my 60LB rose Oak Heritage. On the other hand a GT Traditional 340 with a toughhead up front also coming in around 65grs. What are your opinions

The shaft and head you can get to fly perfect and sharpen razor sharp.

Outside of that they are all pretty well the same.

Yes sir, whatever works for you...I'll be using micro diameter shafts this year, Killn Stiks or Gold Tip, with 150 grain Cutthroats up front...

I used a ACC shaft and a 160 grain STOS that weighted 360 for a total arrow weight of 625 grains. My 50 at 29 longbow put it right through the heart at 28 yards. I'd post a picture but I can't figure out how to get it out of the TIFF format?

I don't use single bevel. I can get them pretty sharp, but the end result is not as durable as a double.

Bowmania

Been using forgewoods and ace express since the mid fifties. Never have had the need to change a thing.

Yup.

Footed fir or spruce.

I'm currently shooting cocobolo footed, compressed tapered Cedar with 160 grain cutthroats upfront coming in between 575 and 585 grains total weight.

I use carbon Express piledriver or heritage 150s with Simmons safafi.

I have not taken an elk with safaris but I have taken game with them. I shot my elk with a bear razor back when they were the best deal out there at $20 a six pack. The cost of heads is insane these days.

Lots of combinations that will work, but if I was using my longbows, it would be a wood arrow and Ace Standard head. My recurve with be an aluminum arrow and same head or Bear Razorhead.

Keep it simple. Nice straight shafts with swinky in front if you like woodies :) Make many, train a lot with broadhead.

Sounds like a good combination as long as you get great arrow flight. You won't go wrong with a Tuffhead. I've had eccellent results using them.

At 60 lbs any arrow that flies well with any broadhead that you like and can get sharp will be the perfect combo. Whatever you decide shoot them with field points and make sure they hit the same place before you go hunting. Bareshaft tuning doesn't always tune you well enough for broadheads.

btw ace standards are tempered better are spot welded and brazed and were tested on concrete without failures by Ace.

It's an aesthetic decision as much as anything.

If you like wood, then nothing else will do, but there are other concerns that may be more practical.

Personally, if you're serious about getting an Elk, then go with the heaviest arrow that will tune properly and which flies fast enough and flat enough that it won't compromise your accuracy on the longest shot that you'd be willing to take.

Of course, you're comparing 650 grains of apples to 650 grains of oranges and from a trajectory standpoint, all that matters is the 650 part ;)

For myself, FIRST thing to do is to determine whether I'm better at sharpening single or double-bevel and whether I can come up with a woodie that flies as straight as I can shoot them. I'm looking forward to hunting with some Aces; just have to settle on a weight and order them ground single or double. If the grind is a toss-up, I suppose I might order single, just because they may have some advantages.

I like my 2 blade Zwickey on Maple shafts. They fly great and have done a number on a couple elk for me. Like everyone has said, an arrow that flies great from your bow with a sharp broadhead would be the one to choose. Good Luck

Depends what perfect means to you.

I've killed 4 elk using the newer style Rocket Fred Bear Razorhead 145 grain, on a GT 3555 30" arrow. Total weight ~420 grains. Out of a 55lb Samick Stingray. All were pass thru's. Shots were 11-25 yards.

The elk didn't complain I was using a less than perfect setup, in fact I'd say I have a near perfect combination and proved it.

The unique thing about carbon is you don't need weight to achieve great penetration. They recover quickly from impact so should be penetrating better...relatively speaking, than others..given they are flying perfectly.

This heavy arrow thing is overblown and can lead to folks actually overloading their arrows as to hurt performance. For every setup there is parameter that allows for many different facets of performance. Don't get stuck in a rut with just "heavy" versus overall performance. A better idea is to abide by the 8+ grains per pound and perfect flight. And I would like to know what a "heavy" arrow is, not just someones opinion of what it is.

There is a really good article in the latest Trad. Bowhunter Mag.These guys have killed like 67 elk with trocar tip replaceable blade heads out of 52 to 57 lb recurves and r/d longbows. I have to agree with George said. I remember Dale Dye telling me the same thing a few years ago. Liked the speed and trajectory of a fast arrow. I guess there are more than one way to skin a cat.

Interesting thing, though....

I've been messing with the calculator some more, and if I take my 26.5" DL, Stu says that gives me #5 below the rated weight for each bow.

So at a flat 8GPP, I can go as low as 400 grains... which is calculated to fly at 206 fps out of my Howatt Hunter

But the closest I can get to that with a wood shaft would be 422 grains, which is almost as fast, but requires me to drop down to an Ace Express or similar 100-gr BH on a #50-spine shaft cut as short as I dare use them.

So clearly, for me, anyway, if I want to go light, a carbon or aluminum is the only way to go.

Really good to see that TBM article by those boys shooting 450-500 grain arrows with replaceable blade heads. Fast and very sharp. Jack Howard would be smiling.

I have killed 18 bulles to date over the last 35 years. 17 were killed using woods tiped with Zwickys. 1 was a 2216 tipped with a 200grn VPN. Performance varied on all hits. 1 hit just maybe 5-6 inches but in the heart. all woods and 2216 were all about 600grs. shot a buck from the same bow shooting GT 400 which was very fast but 7 inches after hitting a rib. However did the job. Want more consistancy. Oh the 2216 with the VPN upfront burried to the fletch but no bokne was hit.Never a pass through

Elkpacker1 I would think after 18 bulls you have already got it figured out. I am a heavy arrow fan 550 and up on everything I hunt. weight trumps speed anytime. ask the guy driving the sports car 100 mph hitting the semi head on? most the guys shooting lite carbon arrows are 20 years behind, back in the 90s all the rage was the new carbons, lite 300-350gr. and able to shoot a compound over 300fps. now go ask them there choice in wt. most are back to 450gr. to 550 they got tired of poor penetration on not so perfect shoots. myself I plan for the worse (shoulder shot) and pray for the best so I prepare for the worse. and Longbows and wood just go together. I like the big banana 5 1/2 also for that not so perfect release that can happen at any time they will striegten out a arrow pretty fast even arrows not spined perfect will fly straight plus easier to see in flight, Noise... no no more then the bow makes. and besides I site out side all the time and never here the birds flying in and that's a lot of feathers coming in.

Never change a winning game.

I don't know that it's perfect, but if so blessed with time and opportunity this fall 550gr POC arrows tipped with 190 Ribteks will do the trick.

There is an excellent article in the latest Trad Bowhunter about a couple of guys that have killed a ton of elk. They talk a bit about their equipment choices and it is a good read and makes one think about what works and what doesn't.

George, once again your experience talks. There is a range of weight where maximum energy transfer from the limbs, thru the string, to the arrow takes place. This not only varies by the bow design, but also is contingent on the material the energy is being transferred into(arrow). In the case of carbons, which are less dense /mass and more stiff, that optimum point seems to be at 8gpi. Anything less, and you do not get max energy transfer, anything more and you lose performance, as you're beyond the peak of energy transfer, and you get diminished return of momentum/speed, etc. With aluminum, that weight number is higher due to more density/mass, and wood even higher. In summary, the old 10+ gpi advice was based on arrow materials at the time, and is lower for today's materials (carbon).

you set up sounds great if it flie good,, I bet if you hit the right spot it gonna be the best set up for sure,,

I've killed more then my share of bulls, and only one with an arrow over 550grains, and I was very unhappy about arrow trajectory after shooting my 450 grain carbon shafts. Elk shot up close are easy to get great penetration on, but bulls over 25 yards is where you run into problems.

Trying to get a heavy arrow through a small hole 20 yards away with the bull 25 yards away causes problems and issues. Even an arrow 50 grains liter will have flatter trajectory with no notice in lack of penetration. I'll stick to my lite 450 grain arrows for elk...

Thanks, guys. That's my article in the new TBM, and I figured to get a lot more dissing about our "light" bow and arrow setups from "light" bows. Appreciate the positive comments.

Fishing arrows, if made from fiberglass, present their own category. I know fiberglass is heavier than carbon, but not sure of the density or stiffness, all part of the equation.

I should note that the bull I shot through the scapula with a 4-blade Muzzy on a steep downhill shot was from a 67# Bighorn recurve, back before we figured out heavy bow poundage wasn't necessary. We also figured out we were more accurate with lighter bows, especially as we grew older.

Full disclosure: we shot a few of those 67 elk with compounds back when we dabbled with them in the early days (Jennings, Carroll). I have also shot a couple with a "modern" compound just to see what it was like to hunt with one. But my arrow weight/broadhead/poundage/shot distance was the same (460/125/mid-50's), which was the point of that section of the article.

Back when Tom started building recurves and R/D longbows, he designed the limbs to produce maximum speed and performance to minimize trajectory issues, for the very reasons Buglmin references. We also wanted to maximize accuracy at unknown distances.

As mentioned in the article, I believe everyone should shoot the heaviest arrow and sharpest broadhead they can shoot with the best accuracy possible within their effective range. For us, that combination is mid-50# and mid-400 grain carbons. No doubt a 2-blade produces better penetration, but on marginal shots (yes, they happen..)the blood trail may be compromised by a slit vs. a hole.

Monte Browning tried hunting with gosh arrows. Seems like they were 1200 guns. But he was hunting with bow weight most of us couldn't.

OK back home how, My phones auto correct doesn't just correct spelling, it changes words till they no longer resemble what I typed. Monty Browning used fish arrows a while and I think they weighed in at about 1200gns. He shot em out of a heavy bow tho. I'd never try that with my 60 pounders.

This is off the original topic but:

I can tell you about fiberglass fish arrows and fiberglass rod, I've been playing with it for, I don't know, 20 plus years? Ever since the first time I ever heard Monty Browning talk about them.

5/16" fish arrows spine right about .250. Fiberglass driver way markers can spine slightly less. 9/32" fiberglass rods, again they can be bought in length, or they can be had in the form of driveway markers also, they will spine in the neighborhood of .600. This conventional (AMO)spine, all of mine are 29" to the back of the point.

Weights are VERY conistent, as GLF stated, they will weigh in the neighborhood of 1200 grs. for the 5/16, and about 750-800 for the 9/32.

The truly interesting thing is that shooting these arrows (especially the 9/32") from bows in the 55lb. range is extremely efficient, and the speed and trajerctory is far better than most would imagine. Although, on some bows, you do need to bump out the sight window to get them to tune correctly, but that isn't the case with all bows.

My contention for years has been that for the majority of the bow hunting that we do, they are nearly ideal. No inserts, or tubular shafting to worry about collapsing. The only point of failure is the broadhead ferule. That information is just for those who are interested in that sort of thing. They can be easily tapered for glue on points and nocks with any power taper tool.

I would shoot anything 9 gpi to 12 gpi that flies true with a 2 blade STOS or Grizzly or a no mercy or a Zwickey Eskimo , Just me though. And if I was using woodies I would go tapered

i haven't used them but a buddy of mine who lives in Canada and does a lot of remote hunts likes the (stainless) tuffheads. Says they don't rust

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