Well guys I decided I was going to learn this style of shooting. I had tried before, but this time I caught on to it! My grouping has really tightened up and accuracy has improved 100%. I'm 56 and you can teach a old dog new tricks. So if any of you thinkin about trying it for 1st time or once again, try it think youll like it.

I tried it, and quit multiple times before it finally stuck. It just felt weird to me, and I couldn't stay at it.

Last time I tried it (several years ago), I made myself do it exclusively (like it or not) for two weeks.

By the end of the first week I had a handle on it, and by the end of the second week I had fallen in love with it.

What's cool is, I can now shoot split finger (for longer distances), or 3 under (for normal distances) with the same tune, and everything works perfect.

Rick

Three under closes up the gap and shortens your PO.

Put a sight on your bow and you will close up your groups even more. I have never quite understood going through all sorts of manipulations, like 3 under, a very high anchor, heavy arrows and even string walking. Why not just use a sight?

To me archery is not about pounding the center of a target. I enjoy what has been called the zen of archery. Others call it being in the zone. By either term it is all about harnessing the subconscious power.

Cool, good stuff.

Archery is all about hitting the center of the target. Being in the zone, or zen those are all description of a state, or the means to an end that is the center of the target.

If you read Zen in the Art of Archery, that book is a great distillation of how to be a great shooter. Samurai were archers on the battlefield, they were not looking for a way of making a spiritual miss.

In the battle of Sekigahara,1600, 40000 were killed in a romp that lasted 6 hours. That is a lot of heavy lifting, and someone must have hit something. Though admittedly, by this time in Japan's history, a lot of the killing was done with firearms.

I am 65 and shoot 2 under, 2 finger split and 3 finger split. I do that right handed and left handed. No tricks involved. Just a willingness to think outside the box.

DDave

And work at it of course. Very much a cognitive process.

DDave

Zen is no substitute for a clean release. I get a clean release with three under, back tension and a cordovan tab ;-)

Well...it's been a while...let the games begin...

As most, if not all of us, I learned as a kid by shooting split...fling 'n hope. As in any sport, I got better. Then, I got pretty dang good. Go figure, eh?

So, I merrily shot away for a goodly long time and had a lot of fun in the process.

Then in the mid 70's I started shooting compounds, running full gamit from bare bow & fingers to about every accoutrement one could find. And I got REAL good. To the point it was like shooting a scoped rifle...oddly enough, after a few years the fun kinda petered out. To me, it got "too easy".

Funny, I never got that sensation shooting a rifle, but I did with the bow.

So I returned to my roots and never looked back. But...try as I might...I couldn't hit a barn wall from the inside shooting split. And I REALLY tried.

Oh, I was good to go from maybe 15 yards in, but past that it was a crap shoot.

I was introduced to "Apache style" and worked on 3-under. I've been happily hitting ever since.

Rick Barbee...you guys who bounce back 'n forth are on a plateau above my skills. But I'm more than happy with my shooting. That's good enough for this old dog. I've shot this style so long it's 2nd nature.

But, EVERY time this thread pops up...the haters step up to the plate!

Y'all shoots yer way 'n I'll shoot mine, eh?

My advice to anybody thinking about it is; give it a try...if it fits, great...if not, so be it.

Turkey season starts in a few week, I ain't changing anything now!

Split, three under, two under, two split, fixed crawl, walking the string. That's the great thing about this type of archery. So many things with which to experiment. Recurves, longbows, ILF, horse bows, carbon, aluminum, wood, bamboo, two blades, three blades - the list goes on and on. If Zen, harnessing the power of the subconscious or the cognitive process is your thing, and well and good. But above all, have fun and keep it simple.

I find very little Zen in crawling around looking for my lost arrows

I use the force. lol

when i was a kid every Saturday we were doing deer drives Somewhere cornfields creek bottoms downwind side ridgetops Etc. absolutely the best fun and comrodery I've ever had With a bow. I was more successful than most. I shot a hoyt Pro vantage 80# with one sight pin no peep and 3 under... When deer were coming through even though the bow had a Pin there was no time to think yds. I just instinctively Shot useing the pin as a reference. More than one time During muzzle Loader season i killed more With a bow than The guys with guns...just luck they said..ha ha ha talk About being proud

I have always believed sights on a recurve should be the first step in going to traditional from compound. This would allow full focus on shooting form. I think there is almost a kind of taboo in the traditional bowhunting community against using sights which is weird because at one time that was what everybody hunted with. Everytime I see an old rotted out tree stand still nailed up I imagine some farm kid with his Bear Kodiak waiting for that buck to show, some fifty years gone now.

I think im,going 2 under. Three under is just too hard....... :)

I started out split when I first started shooting Trad a few years ago and 15 yards in I was really accurate. About a year later I made the switch and I'm now really accurate out to 25 yards, it took only a few weeks to get there shooting 3 under.

It takes all kinds to make the world go around. Three under, for most folks, is deadly at close range but there is always a trade off. Back in the field round days, most barebow shooters walked the string because the 3under would cover the entire target once you got out to 45 or 50 yards. That's why "methods" of barebow shooting were brought about. String walking, face walking....gap, etc., etc. It all works well when folks apply themselves. And if hunting or close 3D is your game, you are probably better off using the arrow closer to the eye.

I shoot split finger and have had to adjust more for close shots than long ones. Another trade off, if you will. But then, that's how I learned to shoot and particularly how I enjoy shooting the most. Never did learn to trust that nock staying there when the fingers weren't on both sides of it. Do what you are most accurate with for sure.

I shot split for years. Did ok and killed stuff. One day after a poor shot elk hunting and a month of just poor shooting in general, I tried 3 under and was hitting well. Shot that way for about 4 years doing well.

Received a new bow for my birthday that I really like. I couldn't get anything to fly right from it but split fingered they flew great. I played with nock and shelf changes but never fixed it. No desire to change the tiller, so I went back to split. Instead of changing "aim", I change my anchor. With split, my middle finger is in the corner of my mouth. With 3 under, my index finger is. This puts the arrow in basically the same spot for both and my 40 yard point on is the same.

Been shooting well so we'll see if it holds when Mr Tom is strutting around in front of me.

[[[ "With split, my middle finger is in the corner of my mouth. With 3 under, my index finger is." ]]]

Same

Rick

papa =

You actually got some good responses. It's the difference between using a sight and not or rather using a "better sight". A smaller gap will be easier to reproduce.

That's all there is to it.

Viper out.

Joined the three under group and switched to three under with a '62 Kodiak Special. Originally went from a feather rest to a rug rest early this winter, but the feather rest sets the bow up better for three under, so put it back on. Raised the nocking point up a bit and that old bow shoots just fine three under without any decrease in smoothness or increase in noise with my short 26-inch draw. My '60 Kodiak Special on the other hand shoots alright too three under but it's much quieter and smoother when I shoot it split finger. So, there is a difference between my two favorite old Bear bows, at least for me.

Also noticed I could send at least one to two of four arrows right down the pike (close to center) split finger using a large gap which is an estimate up close. However, when shooting three under, all four arrows were much more consistent than split finger, but none of the four were quite as close to center as I could get one out of four split finger. Have too much field experience stuck between my ears shooting split finger to change completely across the board right now with all my other bows. However, it's good to know those old Bears of mine can be set up to shoot three under with raised rests and slightly raised nocking points.

Do remember playing around with three under in the early sixties for the short targets, but I never kept it up. Will now!

I was watching a YouTube video by Jake Kaminski the other day. He was setting up a bow and if you knew when he was doing it you could text questions. So as he was working on the bow, he'd answer a text question. Someone asked him about three under. I believe he said something like - there's no room for it in my game.

Not sure exactly what he meant, but his game is a 70 meter game. Viper always criticizes us for our '20 yard' accuracy. ANd I agree with him. But if your not accurate at 20, "a smaller gap will be easier to reproduce". To each his own my gaps at 40 are the same as the shortened 3 under gaps. I enjoy shooting at 40 to 60.

Bowmania

Bowmania, - Your right on! I too really enjoy shooting point on split finger at 40 to 45 (depending on my bows).

Where can I find some sort of starting point to learn 3 under? I know the bow needs to be tuned different as well but how? Right now the lightest bow I have is a Bear TD with 45# limbs.

LOL - camperjim that's funny.

It's just a place to put your fingers on the string. The shot is the shot. Who cares where your fingers are?

I have yet to shoot with someone who didn't want to hit what they are aiming at. They may be out there, but I haven't found them.

When I went 3 under, I just went. If you anchor the same you will likely shoot low until you adjust to it. I have some bows that tune/shoot fine 3 under with no change, others that require a higher nock point and the one that hates 3 under and would likely require a tiller change.

I'm shooting split at the moment but even when I was shooting 3 under I would shoot split occasionally. I can go back and forth fairly seamlessly by just anchoring a finger lower when shooting 3 under.

I'm sure there is a lot more to it but it works for me.

Rick Barbee: "What's cool is, I can now shoot split finger (for longer distances), or 3 under (for normal distances) with the same tune, and everything works perfect."

I think that's the direction my shooting is evolving. I stepped away from split to learn 3-under and now I think I'm evolving toward use of both...split mostly for long shots.

Comment about "zen" : The term is being confused with "subconscious" and other fantasies about brains (e.g. "subconscious")...so it might be better if the term was avoided until some minimal learning takes place. Put most simply (which is the only way), zen is nothing more than a discipline or exercise that may allow a quiet mind and direct (not thoughtful) perception. Perfect for many endeavors, not just archery.

IMO "target panic" is exactly the sort of thing (or fantasy) that zen practice might reduce.

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