I'm reading some threads where folks are having difficulty tuning their "Shot Off-The-Shelf" bows and figured I'd share this recent experience and observation of mine.

I recently received a new custom ordered Borders Hex7.5 Covert Hunter where a coupe weeks ago?...I THOUGHT I had it well tuned but a little voice in my head kept saying..."Not Really Bill..You Ain't THERE Yet"

and the reason that little voice was speaking out?...is because yes...I could shoot good bare shaft groupings with the fletched but?...not all the time...and those times I didn't?...I blamed myself for not pressuring the grip correctly and viola!...and as long as I..."remembered to"..."thought about it"...and?.."actually implemented it"?....yeah...I could pressure the grip to get the results I was looking for except?...for that little voice still repeating...

"Somethings still not right!...It could be better!...It shouldn't be this difficult nor should you need to do anything special with your grip each and every shot!....you need to dig deeper and this bow deserves and I demand you take a closer look at things!"

A couple days later?...I start hearing some reports from other Covert Hunter owners that they are getting pristine arrow flight with nocking points in the 3/4"-1" high range...(while here my nocking point was in the 1/2"-5/8ths" range)...so I tried it and moved mine up to the extreme of 1" and?..nope...bow flelt like it drew better but I still got a nock high result using my..."Comfy & Natural Don't Hafta Think About It or Do anything Special"...grip.

So I dropped it down 1/4" too 3/4"s and BAM!...There It Is!...Comfy Natural Grip & Pristine Level Bare Shaft Flight!...and shot after shot!

so then the little voice asked me...

"So Whazzup Wid Dat?!!!"

and I'm 99.999% certain I found out...so check it out...

This is my arrow attitude on the shelf with a 1/2" nocking point...notice how the arrow is....

"PRESSURING THE SHELF BEFORE CENTER"

and this is how it looks with a 3/4" high nocking point and notice how...

"The Arrow Is Pressuring The Shelf JUST A TOUCH PAST CENTER"

And feathers or not?...all I got was "Darts"

Now?...many things can dictate where your nocking point should wind up...things like tiller and even how the limbs close where there's always a weak limb and a strong limb in this nothings absolutely perfect world but as far as I'm concerned?...

"Where & How The Arrow Rest The Radiused Shelf Is The Dictator of Tuning Elevation Wise"

and if it's resting the shelf "Before Center"?...you can tune till the cows come home and while you may get something that you sometimes consider "satisfactory"?....imnsho?...y ou won't have a truly tuned nock height until you're arrow is resting just a bit past your shelf radius mid-point.

Hope that helps and L8R, Bill. :)

Great post Bill. And I couldn't agree more. I'm a 3 under shooter and all of my shelf shot bows are set at 3/4" nock. That's where they finished up in the tuning process. All of my ILF mechanical rest bows are between 3/8" and 1/2" .

Rob..

very interesting,but as tuning goes raising and lowering nock pt to correct porpoising should give the same results or close to it.thanks JINKS

Agree with bowfitz. That's what I do. A whole lot of errant inconsistent arrow flight that is tough to figure out, is actually less than stellar form.

I find my arrow spine on Stus calculator. That way I know for certain I am on or within a couple pounds. That eliminates spine in the equation. The rest, that is ALL on me.

Very observant catch Jinkster. That is the reason I put a bump under the shelf pad in line with the deep part of the grip on each bow. The nock point usually don't have to be as high and theoretically,at least, helps to limit the effect of any torque induced at the grip. >>>------> Ken

Pretty much a part of tuning in which your arrow flight will tell you what is correct. Every riser shelf has a high point, and finding that is usually as simple as tuning your arrows so you aren't having any porpoising either high or low. Once that happens, the bow has shown you the spot. Now you can mess with it by raising the shelf material, but you will then have to retune anyway. Good information.

I too agree with bowfitz. Some of the tuning minutiae I've read about is all well and good if that's your thing. For me, good arrow flight is all I'm concerned about and that equates, for the most part, to good form and a clean, consistent release, after finding correct nocking point of course. Moving the nock set up or down does that for me. I'm trying to keep it simple.

Great thread and why I read this stuff. Thanks for the info. Sometimes, I think I have it down but when it's presented another way the idea truly sinks in. Awesome. Matthew

Makes me wonder how much air you need under the arrow just before the point of contact...

Because just as arrows flex laterally right away, they must flex vertically just as quickly, no?

I guess the point is that it's easy to use NP height to make your bow completely "center-shot", vertically, but....

Yikes. Out of my depth again! But doesn't it stand to reason that if you have a non-centershot riser, you need a non- centershot rest/shelf as well?

I just re-viewed the slow-mo in the archer's paradox video that somebody posted the other day, and Byron's arrow is definitely flexing in both planes....

Hmmmmm.......

Just wondering, do you think the arrow looks like it's flexing in both directions because it's spinning?

MP

It's well clear of the shelf and strike plate before it rotates much.

Good questions here folks but simply put?...

Picture your shelf radius as a complete circle...then based on your tiller and nocking point?...ask yourself...

"Am I shooting my arrow Over The Ball or?...Through The Top Of It?"

also realize...

1. My bow depicted is in fact..."Center-Shot"

2. Not every ones is.

but yet?...

3. There's been a ton of threads started over the years where archers struggle to get anything other than nock high flight.

4. This is just a shared observation of what worked for me.

5. YMMV.

carry on. :)

"center" is a misleading term, because a lot of shelves have a parabolic shape, not unlike the shape of a fletch. This is to get the point of tangency so that it is above the low point of the grip, which is supposed to reduce torque issues.

So where is the center of that kind of shelf? Linearly, it is ahead of the point of tangency, but the high point, where the arrow is expected to be tangent, or a little beyond tangent, is not on the linear center of the shelf. The concept of tangency is independent of center, since that is not the objective on many bows.

However, our little plans are often not respected by the forces themselves. Rick McKinney said that his bows often tuned better with the rest in hole one (pretty much over the grip), but with the button in hole two which is ahead of that point. So like many things it is complicated.

"Because just as arrows flex laterally right away, they must flex vertically just as quickly, no?"

No, because you can change the nock position relative to vertical, without much in the way of limits, your nock point left/right is constrained by the string path, and normall the point is always to the weak side of the string.

In fact, as far as Jinksters claims are concerned, the position the arrow has left right on a fingers bow, always has it on the near side of the ramp (sight window ramp).

As far as his claims about vertical nock position and having the arrow on the downslope of the far side... Square is when the nocking point is at a height that the arrow is square to the string. At that point, by definition, the arrow shaft is tangent to the curvature of the shelf (if the shelf has curvature). The moment you raise the arrow any amount above square, the shaft is tangent to a point towards the target from, and below the highest point of the rest. I don't know what is going on with that recurve, but it isn't what Jinkster said.

Thanks Jinx. I always enjoy your posts. I don't call it "struggling", I call it "fidgeting"! LOL! Lance.

what makes a arrow shoot perfect one day, and then not so perfect the next day??? :):)

If you have already registered, please

sign in now

For new registrations

Click Here