I know the answer if it is Target panic in Archery and Rod Jenkins told me.

We have to learn proper shot execution by means of a shot sequence properly ingrained by forming good habits.

The reason we get target panic is a fight caused by the conscious mind saying shoot, shoot! before the shot is properly executed and you short draw or cannot keep pulling to anchor and aim, then commit to the shot.

THAT is why you have to break the shot down to at least seven components.

Feet and stance Grip String hook Engage back early in the draw and draw Anchor Start aiming Commit Follow through to the conclusion

Program the shot up close and do not aim, only focus on each part of the shot sequence and it becomes ingrained S/CLY

MANY PEOPLE HAVE TO DO THIS FOR WEEKS AND MONTHS TO INGRAIN! There are no shortcuts and everyone that has had TP will always have it like once you used tobacco or was an alcoholic, you always will be but the difference is now you chose every day not be a user.Remember, every day without fighting TP weakens the Monster and the more you ingrain and shoot correctly, the longer the Monster will be gone bye bye.

The same with TP. "The winner of the day is the one that controls his TP the best"

ingrain the good habits and forget about release unless you are working the refinement of it close up but otherwise eliminate it from your sequence because it is a result of having shot the Bow and thinking about the release is a total waste of your time and only increases the anxiety of the fight going on with the C/mind and the S/C mind.

You want the C/mind to do only one or two things in the shot execution. To aim, and once you are aiming you may focus on your back muscles and pulling but nothing else but those two things.

You must let the SC/mind run the shot because your mind cannot think of two things at one time at the same millisecond in time and that is why you must ingrain the shot sequence.

Now where I went wrong let us discuss the subject but beware of the mind games because that along with NOT LEARNING HOW TO SHOOT A WELL EXECUTED SHOT is the problem.

"The reason we get target panic is a fight caused by the conscious mind saying shoot, shoot! before the shot is properly executed and you short draw or cannot keep pulling to anchor and aim, then commit to the shot."

I would say that is not the reason and you do get to it in your second last paragraph. It is what happens when you have two or more thoughts in mind when making something happen. You need one thing.

Ingraining a shot sequence is not really the solution.

The shot sequence does two things. One is when you have time on your hands, initiating the shot sequence is how you release the shot. This is why golfers seemingly ridiculously restart a whole shot sequence when standing over an 8 inch put, if they are distracted. Starting the shot sequence puts the whole process in motion, and you don't have to do that thing where you say to yourself "shoot". It is like pushing off at the top of a hill when skiing, you are just executing from that point on. Of course you can have events dictate: If a buck jumps out in front of your stand, you can use that as your trigger. But that kind of thing will not take you through 60 shots on a Saturday.

Probably the more important aspect of a shot sequence is the process itself. You have to stack the various parts of the shot in the correct order, leading up to the point where the string is loosed and the arrows zips away. If you don't have this right, you will have trouble. One can specify a shot sequence, but there are different ones that work for different styles. It isn't all a mater of personal preference, but some personal preferences can be accommodated by different sequences.

One thing I do is I visualize the follow through position. If I didn't do that, I wouldn't pull through the shot. It programs the release, because my objective is clearly stated in my mind as being that which gets me to follow through. So of the three things I do to fire a shot, one of them is dealt with by that method. You have to have some way of getting that stuff done, and if your sequence is a good one, then you are going to end up at the end point with a workable technique. You have to be really careful that you actually have your shot together, or just grinding out the sequence can do more harm than good, and it can accelerate the arrival of target panic.

For me, "ingraining the shot sequence" is the ONLY THING that has helped me overcome TP.

Because it is a psycological probem and not a physiological one, behavioral therapy (ingraining the shot sequence) is the only thing I found that helped me.

Now, just as different kinds of therapies work differently with different people, Hiram's solution may not work for everyone...just my opinion from one who suffered from TP for over 10 years.

Very hard to argue the importance of a shot sequence. It starts with a stance and ends with a follow through. Neither one of these will produce TP so it's somewhere in between. That's obvious.

You have all the time in the world to set your stance, grip the string etc, but once you start that draw you have probably 5 to 8 seconds to get the shot off. So, one or two of the things after the draw 'must' cause it.

Swing draw aside, because of the aiming issues it creates. I think it's a combo of aiming and back tension. And here's what I'm driving at. Take release and follow through out of your sequence. Why? Because if you have proper back tension, you can not have anything but a release and FT. And further - my point - If you don't know when you're going to release, it's probably impossible to get TP.

To prove my point, which is impossible on the LW, a clicker cures TP (in a lot of cases) WHY? Because the clicker is telling you when to release, because you don't know.

I think it's more important to PREVENT TP than figure out why you got it.

Bowmania

I don't have tp, nor have I ever had it, nor will I ever have it. Plus, I've never had a conscious shot sequence. Geeze you'd think we were launcing rockets.

TP is a neurotic habit.

There's no such thing as "subconscious." That's a theoretic fantasy, invoked here to avoid admitting that one has a bad habit. You don't "get" TP, you are responsible for it...just as you are for tobacco or alcohol addiction, or for any other bad habit.

TP persists because you keep doing it...same as with smoking.

IMO people who are uptight about such things as competition are especially prone to alibis like TP.

Lets go to the deep roots of the problem. The reason we get target panic is because we are afraid to miss. Lose the fear, lose the panic. Yeah easier said than done.

Things like working on ingraining your shot sequence can work to help because they create familiarity in an uncomfortable situation. Until you lose the fear, it will never be cured.

(voice of three pack a day smoker) 't' minus ten .....nine....Ignition sequence started. Engines are on. ...six .five....four....three...ttttwo....wuh wuh wuh ....sheeeeeittt! lol

TP is truly a bad thing for folks who get it for whatever reason. One of the best shots I have ever seen ended up getting it. It is sad, it has been 8 to 10 years and he still cannot get rid of it. I have never had it, probably never will cause I never worry about missing, I do my best not too but it happens. Shawn

Just kiddin' around here guys. Don't push the destruct button. lol

After all I have read and heard from all kinds of "experts" I am convinced that nobody actually knows what causes TP. There are a lot of theories but who is to say which one is right?

When I read threads where people make definitive declarations about TP, I have to wonder how many of them are speaking from personal experience versus theory.

David Mitchell, I'm sure you are correct.

I had a very brief round with it about thirty-couple years ago. Mine, I can honestly say, came from trying to shoot too much bow for my scrawny butt. And interestingly, how I got away from it, was to shoot my brother-in-law's Jennings compound one afternoon. All of a sudden a light went on. If I can hold a 35# bow (let-off weight) at full draw long enough to properly shoot, they I should be able to shoot a recurve like that. I sold my 68# limbs for my Bear takedown, and got a pair of 55 pound, and it went away. Now I can shoot bows from 30 pounds to 55 without those "Yips".

Now that is just my story, and there are lots of other ways to develop T.P. Yes...fear of missing may be one of them, but only one of them.

I first got tp in 1975 shooting a 40lb compound with sights. Froze off target trying too hard at target shooting. Went back to recurve without sights, then short draw. Doing better now but still to fight it.

Man I dont know, I kind of like having tp. Beats leaves any day.

"I don't have tp, nor have I ever had it, nor will I ever have it. Plus, I've never had a conscious shot sequence. Geeze you'd think we were launcing rockets..."

You're either very, very lucky, or you've never put yourself in enough high stakes competitive situations to develop it.

Beginner archers (not calling you a beginner, just an example) don't have TP. Intermediate archers rarely have TP. Those who develop TP are usually archers who have had some success, and due to that success, develop expectations. And that's where the phsyc. comes in... Expectations create anxiety, and that's what causes the TP.

I don't have TP when I am just flinging arrows for fun. I can shoot flu-flus all day long at aerial targets or bouncing balls, or I can stump shoot through the woods or shoot balloons or even hunt, without ever having TP.

The only time I ever have to deal with it is when I'm trying to win an archery event. Not trying to just shoot and have fun, but rather trying to win.

I understand that most folks pursue traditional archery for reasons that have nothing to do with competition, and that's great. I was in that camp for a long time, and much of the time I still am. But I enjoy competition too, and at the higher levels, competition, success, expectations, anxiety and TP are all part of the game.

I don't mind my TP any more. I accept it as part of the challenge of competition. Like I'm competing with myself these days, as well as others. Some days I win, and I place well, other days I don't win, and I place poorly. But it's always worth the challenge.

I know too many good archers who have left competition because of TP and that's very sad. I love archery and competition too much to let something like TP keep me from participating.

Lost Run, my story is very similar to yours.

I developed TP as a teen, shooting compound, pins and fingers. I couldn't hold on the spot and my shooting just got progressively worse. So I dumped the compound in '88 and got a hunting recurve, which I had always wanted anyway, and learned to shoot without consciously aiming. That was my "solution" for TP also, and it worked just fine for me for a long time.

But then the competitive bug hit me again in 2003 and I went back to aiming, then the clicker on an Olympic bow, then back to aiming a barebow target rig, etc. And of course the TP came back when I started consciously aiming again, but like I said above, I accept it as part of the challenge.

If it was easy, everyone would do it! LOL

It sure is comforting to see that I am far from alone in dealing with TP. It's nice to be able to read about versions of this evil and hear some suggestions. I had it so bad in the 90s that I gave up on trad archery after 10 years. I tried again a few years ago but it returned. Now I'm trying again with a 30# recurve. Progress is slow and sometimes I feel my muscles tensing up too much.

Back in the 90s I would freeze about 2" from full draw. It felt like my elbow hit a wall behind me and no amount of pulling would move it further back. Without a target I could draw the bow and hold at anchor for 60-90 seconds. With the 30# bow I can usually get to anchor but sometimes I freeze pointing off the bullseye.

A friend who shot a compound couldn't lay his finger on the release trigger without jerking it. I finally talked him into resting the finger on the trigger but he was twitching and very uncomfortable. Our psyche can definitely mess with our shooting. I once heard someone say "shoot like you don't care if you miss".

One cause of target panic. Aim small miss small. Most of us, when we aim at a tiny spot will get disturbed by the wiggles.It can lead to jerking or releasing suddenly, when you wiggle across the spot. It is aggravated by a sight pin. If we could quit worrying about the "float" easier said than done. We would do O.K. How ever the wiggle only covers an inch or two at the target. No worries. That is still a very good group. If there is no target there is no problem. Try a very large target the worse the TP, the bigger the target. Two or three feet in diameter at 10 yards=no panic.That is just a cause, don't know the best way to solve. I just let the sucker go before panic sets in. LOL :^) >>>-----> Ken

Target panic is like the shanks or yips in golf, no one wants to talk about. You certainly don't want to watch someone with it either.

Good stuff, keep it coming.

I took a long break from shooting,, and dont shoot targets,, just stumps and such,, I have fun with my archery now,, I killed deer too,, I dont over practice or shoot when I am tired,, and I dont shoot any competive shoots,, just for fun,, I shot bows that were designed for a shorter draw and did not hit an anchor,,that helped,( even though I was short drawing, I was drawing the bow to full draw), now I can shoot with long draw and anchor if I want ,, hope that helps,,B

I've had it for over 20 years. Got it shooting heavy Compounds Indoors. Luckily i am cool as a cucumber when it comes to Shooting critters. Can't explain it my mind shifts into hunt Mode and i don't think about it

"I took a long break from shooting,, and dont shoot targets,, just stumps and such,, I have fun with my archery now..."

For me this has been key. Remembering that archery is supposed to just be fun.

At this year's USArchery Indoor Nationals - an event I've placed well in before - I shot one of the worst competitive scores of my life. But I had a lot of fun because despite my TP challenges, I just embraced the challenge and keep on shooting with a smile on my face.

Just 2 weeks before that event, I had my first surgery (back) and was just happy to be there, standing upright and flinging arrows. So despite my score, that was a memorable and enjoyable tournament for me.

I felt that was a real breakthrough because now I'm not afraid to shoot a tournament regardless of the outcome. I couldn't say that before although I never did admit it.

Timex - I'm the same way on critters. Mind goes total "predator" mode and I never get nervous because I'm so focused on the kill. Weird, but I'm happy that it works that way.

I think it's good to talk about target panic, but not too much. Too much talk, in my opinion, can lead to target panic! Ishi advised us to think of him, but not too much. Same thing with target panic.

Joe

I have had target panic for 7 plus years shooting right handed but with a dominant left eye. Recently switched to left handed shooting, and lo!, no target panic. Some one smarter than me needs to explain this to me. It is obvious, there are a lot of you out there a lot smarter than I.

Of course there are those in the archery community who believe that target Panic is a Dystonic Iteration.

Whoa Phil...Way over my head even after trying to look it up.

I'm currently battling TP right now. I freeze off the target and sometimes can't get to full draw the last couple of inches. Real pain in the butt! I can aim at a wall and hold at full draw for what seems like forever. I have been shooting up close trying to work on form but it doesn't seem to get any better. Taking a couple of days off from shooting!

I guess I've been lucky. I've never experienced tp. My old mentor battled it for a while, but overcame it.

I never shot any major events, but shot in-state outdoor and indoor events for years with no issues...won some, lost some. I've got a couple boxes of trophies, plaques, and medals stashed somewhere in the basement. But, that was in my younger days...no way could I match today's top shots.

I've got a good friend, shooting a compound, who absolutely could not raise his bow arm when at full draw...no way. He would draw over the top of his target and lower his arm to get the pin on target. Needless to say, he got to shooting on the move...he could not settle in on his target.

He asked me if I could...well, yeah...and couldn't believe it. He was, and still is, a very accomplished hunter. He just had a malfunction in shooting targets.

I really pity y'all with this malady, and hope you can beat it. I'm in no way belittling anyone...like I said, perhaps I'm just lucky...and I'm grateful for that.

Exactly Homey88 No TARGET no panic. What is the name of this dreaded affliction? TARGET panic. Try no target for a while until you feel totally comfortable. Then a large,can't miss target.Stay with it a while. Enjoy never missing. After a few sessions gradually work back in distance a little at a time. If you have the tiniest feeling relapse move back closer. You want to never miss so you will quit worrying about missing. The fear of a miss can not be allowed to creep back in. Best of luck>>>----> Ken

I think target panic might be related to performance anxiety. Just a guess, I wouldn't know. Fortunately I have no tp problem. That said, if you train yourself to shoot fast, as I have, like touch and go, and you decide to hold the shot for a few seconds, you can experience an occasional hitch, and I have had that happen to me. That isn't tp though.

Never had target panic, I just keep telling myself over and over if you kill it , You have to gut it, drag it to the truck blah blah . Lol works for me.

There is no cure, only remission so to speak. It took a guy sticking a clicker on my target bow to get mine under control. When you know for sure you are not going to release you can aim all day. When the clicker goes off you release with no problems. After that within a few years I could control it without the clicker. But it still to this day tries me from time to time. When it does I hold and let down a few times. But before I got it under control with the clicker I could never had gotten on a target no matter the size without my fingers letting go of the string. Its one of those things that no one can fully understand unless they've had it bad. Usually the best shots are the ones who get it. It's hell to win all summer then suddenly be in the middle of the field lucky to shoot 70 percent on a good day. A good friend stuck a clicker on my bow n ask me to at least try it. 2 weeks later I won a big indoor tourney so clickers do work as long as your not in the least overbowed.

TP comes from second-guessing yourself in my opinion. Stare at what you want to hit, draw, anchor, feels good, release. If I have to think about, I am screwed.

I had it bad. I Jt. Clicker on my bkw 25 years ago. It is still there. I guess I still have it but have not short draw my bow for 25 years.

Bob that's exactly what it is. Performance anxiety. The more important the performance, the more anxiety.

Hiram is right on the money with his analysis. I see several people basically saying the same thing differently.

Was just viewing Jeffer's video on snap shooting or instinctive, interesting I came up on alot of wing shooting and develop the snap shot for grouse,quail, pheasant, woodcock and it transgress over to the bow. When I was younger I held to the spot and then release, but have progressed to the snap shot over the yrs. Infact, I have been retraining my mind to hold and shoot instead of touch and shoot, notice my shot placement has tighten up probably from this neuro-disease that been fighting. In conclusion it is the brain that has to be recondition especially getting into the senior yrs. I remember when shooting skeet league I notice a gent on a practice round that he was deadly but when it came to the completion he fell about, anxiety took over and chocked. I use too get yelled at because I didn't have the gun to shoulder before pull, I would just snap. With archery I found that my snap/instinctive shooting just carried over for the wing shot or occasional sporting clays, again it is the brain that either make or break the shot, just IMO.

I went from 1966 to 1980 without getting it or even knowing what it was. Then I got a target bow n put a sight on it for shooting indoors. I don't know just how long but not too long after putting the sight on I had TP.

"Ishi advised us to think of him, but not too much."

If he really said that (reference?), it is one of the saddest things I've ever read...

Quote...

" ...Bob that's exactly what it is. Performance anxiety. The more important the performance, the more anxiety. "

Do you have some objective evidence to support that statement?

David- It's in Hunting With the Bow & Arrow. I'll look for it. Ishi was superstitious and felt you should let the dead rest. He said it was ok to remember him, think about him, but not too much.

Joe

David- I'll keep looking to find where I read this. I read Hunting With the Bow & Arrow and also read Yahi Archery, but I can't find the quote. I did a search and this is supposed to be the quote by Ishi:

"When I am dead, cry for me a little. Think of me sometimes, but not too much. It is not good for you or your wife or your husband or your children to allow your thoughts to dwell too long on the dead. Think of me now and again as I was in life, at some moment which is pleasant to recall, but not for long. Leave me in peace as I shall leave you, too, in peace. While you live, let your thoughts be with the living."

fwiw I doubt Ishi wrote or narrated any of the books attributed to him. My guess is that the Kroebers, Pope et al did their best to depict him as an individual, honestly, but they did in apparent ignorance fail to depict the holocaust that he survived thanks to their care.

https://books.google.com/books? id=YFghGGXLJ7IC&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=was+ishi+literate&source=bl& ots=8vkqhZwWKs&sig=lIc- 3uHkzvTMXPjv949kW2E9vQw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-vPbDo- rSAhVG12MKHV1QDMYQ6AEILjAD#v=onepage&q=was%20ishi%20literate&f=f alse

I don't mean to go way off subject here, but those words are so tragic. I had just watched this film... https://youtu.be/0ZB9oKQaCN4

The more you shoot correctly, the more your TP will go away.

Be the Gobbler and mount your TP by ingraining a shot sequence to success.

The more you talk about it and bring it up the more you will ingrain yourself as well as others into it!

I thought this thread was closed?

I don't agree that talking about TP will make it worse or ruin others. Quite the opposite in fact.

People who have cancer want to know other people who are going through the same thing. Telling them to "not talk about it" isn't going to help them or anyone else.

TP comes in widely varying forms and degrees. Not everyone who experiences it is afflicted for the rest of their life or has to deal with uncontrollable anxiety. For me, it comes and goes and I have learned to deal with it, shoot well enough to not embarrass myself or wound animals, and still be happy at the end of the day.

Phil, there are loads of studies on performance anxiety. Lanny Bassham's courses are in fact worth their asking price. I've taken two of them now, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

A top Korean Olympic Coach told me not one of his students has ever got TP, I asked him why and he said "Total discipline in the shot sequence".

I've worked very hard to get a better shot sequence, at anchor where the float is good and feel you have all the time in the world to make the shot.

I ingrained my shot sequence to a high enough level where I rarely need to consciously think about it during competition, I really only think about it when I feel something isn't right(anchor, BT etc), I just let down and start again.

I have not had a TP problem since we went to the large boxes of Wet Ones.

Serious, why should those babies always get all of the good stuff?

LOL

This is an educational thread.

I'd say for practical purposes about as useful as a gov't study on hobo balls.

Limbwalker, Do you know of a study that links performance anxiety to the inability to execute an archery shot?

Yeah this is so educational that you can talk someone right into TP!

The less you bring this up the less it will effect you!

Talk about Voodo or cat nip.

Phil, I'd have to look them up. It's been a few years since I delved into that topic. Archery shot? Maybe not. Not much interest there. Other shooting sports - more likely. The "Yips" in golf is very well documented.

A cursory search...

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2015/8/5/shooting-is-90-mental/

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/issfbook.pdf

Haven't read it all, but it is archery specific

http://shapeamerica.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02701367.1 986.10605403

And another one that is very archery specific:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Claudio_Robazza/publicati on/12900718_Emotions_heart_rate_and_performance_in_archery_A_c ase_study/links/0a85e52e21453f3260000000.pdf

Zetabow,

Top Korean coaches can say that because they never work with archers who developed TP. They are weeded out very early in the process there.

Our own head coach (LEE) stopped shooting and started coaching because he developed TP. If he couldn't coach himself out of that, what chance did he have of coaching his students out of it?

But these are questions and facts that are not popular to mention right now.

I had TP worse than anyone that I have ever seen. A variety of things may work, not debating anyone's method, but it is gone when a mental channel is changed and an open minded confidence takes over that makes the TP become nothing more than a memory, rather than a current affliction.

John it was a bold statement by Coach Kim but I think I understood his point, to develop and trust my shot sequence.

I've had TP in the past (2001), I got through it and still believe without continued shot sequence maintenance I would fall back into serious issues. I'm happy where I am with my shooting, feels relaxed and fun, not as good level as past years but I know it's my best for this moment in time.

I have bigger issues at moment with trigger finger in both hands, got bad enough to start impacting my scores, so just happy to be able to shoot. I really don't fancy a Compound and release aid just yet.

Sooner or later you will learn that talking about this and bringing it up is bad business for yourself as well as other too!

Case in point last night I should have stayed home I was very tired still from hunting snows the day before long hours late and early traveling to get to where I hunted and excessive work with putting out a large amount of decoys.

I was so tired I figured better use light bow the 38 weight that's like 40 at my draw when I went to indoor shoot last night. I didn't warm up had it in my head I didn't need to. 1rst target I got a wake up and had TP on it now I should have warmed up.

The first rotten thing that came into my head was this thread and TP and I had it bad and fought it all night. Wasn't able to shoot outside for couple weeks do to freeze up from snow and ice so I couldn't practice other than the week before on Wed. night.

Should not have shot being tired. Should not have even opened this thread before I left to shoot. TP is real and by writing about it all the time and bringing it up puts crap in your head like Frisky try's to do!

So now the fight to reverse comes again the challange.

Zeta you are a lucky man to have met coach Kim - arguably the best archery coach in the world. I hope to learn from him someday. I have plans to travel to him with a student for a few weeks. Just gotta raise the funds and make the time.

Ryman, just like TP has many forms, I think there are many solutions.

for me at least, the first big step has been accepting I have it, and instead of letting it frustrate me I am now just patient and allow it to pass. The more I relax, the sooner it passes.

I jokingly refer to it now as my "old friend."

Had I known what TP was at the time and what symptoms it can have I think I could have stopped it before it became ingrained. Once it becomes ingrained you're stuck.

I've battled it continually for years now. As mentioned above it manifests itself in different forms for everyone, and in different forms at times in the same person. Mine started when having elbow and finger pain from work related fatigue. Still wanting to shoot, I'd try struggling through it. The triggers of pain and discomfort caused me to shoot more and more quickly. On good days I'd be able to get enough arrows in the kill zone to make me feel I was doing ok, winning at a few shoots here and there. Later it got to be not even hitting full draw before releasing. Working hard these days to keep a repeatable, controlled shot sequence and taking more time to line everything up. I still get to rushing when shooting around people at shoots, but hopefully that willl get better with higher confidence in my system. I'll never stop shooting though, even if I have to snap shoot for the rest of my days! LOL

I developed TP back in the mid seventies when I was competitive. Manifested itself as not being able to get on target. Morphed into a short draw so bad, at my 31" draw, I was drawing about 20". Got so sick of it that I finally went to a compound and sights and did well enough to take a few game animals. Then I found myself jumping off the spot with that equip.

I will say that the best shot I ever made on a deer was at 40 paces with my longbow because of TP. I'd started drawing on things I had no intention of shooting. Cars, rocks, trees, kids toys, etc. I got to where I was drawing on does and fawns and small bucks that were legal if they were shot, but I didn't want to.

Anyway, I had this small but ok little 3 point jump out of a patch I was coming around. He stood broadside to me at exactly 40 paces so I drew back and held on him for about 5 to 7 wonderful seconds and thought "if you were bigg..." and the arrow was gone. Thought I'd missed it was so damn clean. Buck bounds off just over the hill and I am thinking I am so glad I missed. Went to go look for the arrow and heard some thrashing down in the trees. You guessed it. Just about the most perfect shot you could make. Complete pass through, heart, lungs, everything.

I always think about that shot. What could be; because I was so totally in control of the whole shot, until I wasn't.

I still have TP. 40 years since I got it. Wanted to quit so many times, yet I still try. Just came in from shooting in close, working on the form, the draw, the anchor, the way my hand is aligned, the pressure on my fingers.

Madness.

Mine started at a shoot in Sioux Falls. Two were shooting cps with over draws in the money round were behind us. I noticed that they were spending time in woods behind the targets looking for arrows and bitching about how the target was set up. When they were close enough I heard them say, the big fat one to his skinny dumbass buddy, that they were getting heart shots for that target. Later I heard another arrow go skipping through the trees. By the fourth target they had caught up with us at a log jam of people. They were proudly showing their score cards, perfect score so far. They got really full of themselves are started in on me and my family, making rude and dirty remarks at my wife and daughter. When the crowd dispersed they got even worse, yelling when we shot and mocking our stickbows. We tried to shoot quick to get away from them, but every time we would catch up to the slow group in front. They also continued to miss. When they turned in their score card, fatboy only missed one heart and his skinny little toothless cuddle toy missed three heart shots. At the next shoot they were there as well, there was a Jennings Elephant bow on display. The guy said that he would buy me a beer if I could pull it, I pulled a variety ways right handed and a variety of ways left handed. Fatboy steps up and says, "Let me show how a real my does it." One half pull on that Elephant bow and there was this sound like an elephant stepping on a dry chicken. Fatboy couldn't even get his arm down. He went to lay down with ice in his van. Later I attempted to catch up to his cuddle toy, who was not shooting without his meaty hunk, but he was afraid of me and ran away. Considering what he called my 13 year old daughter that day like before, I was going for revenge. Pure rage caused my TP. 3d shoots were fun family outings and they ruined for us. I would bet neither of them are bowhunters anymore, but if I ever find them.

I've been battling tp since 2007, and in my case, it was the fear of missing. Started out on one target when I was winning by over 40 points. 15 targets later, I was down 12 points and couldn't buy a ten ring!!

Like limbwalker said, stump shooting, shoot 3D's for fun, no tp. I'm not worried or bothered if I miss then ten ring. Shooting compound, back tension releases help, thumb or finger releases set a different trigger settings help. Shooting stick bows left handed helps. But pressure situations and I fight to control it. Tim Strickland has helped me, but explained that tp will never be cured, only controlled. Breaking down the shot has helped a lot, starting out with stance, hand pressure, shoulders back and square, picking spots, slowly drawing and hitting and holding anchor. But rushing, or feeling rushed, and you gotta let down, take deep breaths, and start all over again.

Well stated.

By not learning a shot sequence we never develop good form or discipline. OK to have fun but when fatigued stop shooting and as Stout said, many try to shoot too much weight and develop short drawing etc.

Not talking about it is like saying you have a mental issue that you do not want to resolve.

Seeing a good PSYCHOLOGIST is the start to correcting anxiety issues along with taking steps to develop confidence.

You know no one is perfect and everyone is going to have an off day but never say "I can't or I will try".

Shoot up close and develop good habits and do not aim.

Ryman my friend. if you are that ate up with it mentally you need to stop shooting and address the mental block first.

Turner and some Books like Zen in archery or actually seeing a shrink will help you.

I am not making fun of anyone about this because I see a shrink twice a month and have for 29 months for my PTSD and GAD.

My job caused me to have some issues and I passed out one day and found out my thyroid was not working along with being so tough mentally or used to stress that my mind was not registering what was happening to my body as a result of 26 of my 31 on the road as an LEO.

I have worked through all this now and realized I am just a simple Man with weaknesses like we all are.

I am very thankful for the help I have received from above and from my Colorado raised 66 year old lady hunter PHD.

It really is all in your head so change it and get to enjoying archery and know you can do it with time.

"It really is all in your head..."

A well known local coach lost one of his most promising young students because she had developed TP. She and her mother denied she had it until one day he told her this, and they exploded, made a huge scene, publicly embarrassed that coach and then left him.

A few weeks later they sought me out for a fresh start and like an idiot I didn't call the former coach to find out why they had parted ways. I coached the girl for a couple years and eventually her TP (which really only reared it's head when we started scoring at tournaments) became so severe she literally could not shoot an arrow at times.

I told her point blank that until she admitted she had TP and started taking steps to work through it, she was done with the sport. Of course, she and her mother blew up, made a huge scene, publicly embarrassed me (or tried to), and left our club.

They sought out a new coach - one with zero coaching experience but a high profile well known archer. I had a chat with her when I found that out (she and I knew each other well) to tell her of the previous two experiences but she figured she could handle it (based on what I don't know but ignorance is bliss). A few months later, her student was done for good never to be seen at an archery tournament again.

The sad part of this story is that her leaving the sport was avoidable. She had the tools to become an Olympic archer, and I don't say that lightly. Very very few do.

The problem was that TP has such a stigma and is spoken about with such shame that her and her mom would not openly admit she had it, even though every single person on the line knew it, including both of them.

So, this idea that we shouldn't talk about it - to me - is nonsense. We should talk about it and we should encourage one another to be open, accept it, and get help with it. If nothing else, learn to LAUGH about it so that you're at least still having fun. Because when you stop having fun, chances are you're going to leave archery and none of us want that.

I'm not a tp evpert, fight my own battles. So many guys out there with all these ideas on just what target panic is, and their ways will cure your tp. Even many top shooters will tell you they fight tp on a daily basis. That's why many shooters now hunt with back tension releases and avoid finger releases all together.

Yes, I know that tp is a mental thing, triggered by stress, hard days at work, relationships. All these block your ability to concertrate and pick a spot. Traveling to big shoots, being around friends helps a lot. Confidence in yourself, cause you know you're better then that, goes a long way in controlling tp. Tuning till you know everything is perfect builds confidence because you know everything is perfect. Having a patience and understanding coach helps as well. To those fighting tp.

To those fighting tp, you're not alone. My best advice, stop shooting competitively for a well and just enjoy shooting your bow.

@OP: You really recommend seeing a shrink for people with target panic?

Target panic comes in many different forms as you have seen in this thread. Essentially completely contradicting your first post.

You conscious mind will not say shoot, shoot, shoot, but the arrow is mostly already gone.

I think it is much more important to find out the reason why a specific person developed it and how it manifests itself.

For a lot of people it starts with this: We shoot at a target with a center and want to shoot a tight group with a set of arrows in the center. Having proper form we do ok, but not perfect. Result is, someone tells us we need to train more to get better. And here is the culprit: Excessive repetition of the same exact thing leads to conditioning where our brain wants to leave away a step in order to get more efficient. As soon as that step is left out and we get worse, we will train even harder and more to get better again. Now we ingrain this left out shooting step so deep into our brain and memory, that we cannot consciously control it any more. As many guys on here said, they have it on targets but not on stumps, many only have it on paper targets but not on 3D. Same target, same distance, excessive repetition. Stump shooting: Every target is different (yes, the stump is your target), the distance and angle is different each time. If you shoot intuitive, you will develop TP quicker than if you shoot statically with a sighting system. 3D: Target is different, distance is different angle is different.

Expectations: Beginners have no expectations, they normally see improvement. Intermediate archers haven't have success (yet). Shooters who are good and won competitions have expectations. Everyone has expectations of himself. Are you willing and able to cut yourself some slack? Lower expectations? The desire to be perfect creates this anxiety. Who defines what is perfect for you??? What makes you feel good?

In my opinion the complete target archery system and scoring is set up to not help an archer develop his skills and correctly judge his abilities. At a lot of 3D shoots you already have a bad feeling stepping on the stake, because you are not comfortable with a shot. Too far for your presumed ability, lousy stand, can't hardly see the target over an obstacle etc. Our brain is not stupid, it will tell you if it feels unsure about that. If you shoot then, and you miss or body hit the 3D target, you just did yourself a huge disservice. 1.) You will tell your brain it was right. 2.) You start to loose confidence in your ability and created a memory of that. 3.) At the next shot that is similar, your brain will again be unsure and will remember that miss and thus weaken your confidence even worse.

In order to grow our personal shooting ability, the KillThing Scoring system is ideal, as it eliminates most of 1.) and 3.). This system allows you to pick your own shooting position out of 3 zones (you will feel comfortable). Kill positive only and punishment for wound and lighter punishment for a miss. You choose for yourself how competitive you want it to be for you, as the zones have different multiplier factors. Good for left/right and tall and small archers. Teaches the ability to perform a kill shot on an animal. If you missed the last time, because you chose the longer distance zone, you will choose the correct zone next time when a similar shot comes up. The nice thing is, that this system can be super competitive (very good shoots will be "pressured" to shoot higher distance zones, but will advance not so far developed shooters gradually into getting more competitive.

Try dropping the sword from your hands.

One of the tips that helped me was to take long shots that have no target. "Draw the bow, feel the tension build and then just let it go." On the day, a 70 meter target was pointed out. I was told to shoot like I would want to shoot when I shot at a deer. Not having any expectations at hitting that far away with a longbow, I was told, "It is just a target, it doesn't care if you miss and you don't either." Much to my surprise, I could hit it.

Wow!! some serious information here. Definitely plenty of food for thought if folks will just take the time to read it. Thanks guys. >>>-----> Ken

TP is really simple, you have to develop a shooting process that has one thought. Along the way, you may have a whole raft of things that get you two + thoughts, from competition pressure to being overbowed. The solution is always the same.

Once you have your basics in order, these are the three things you have to manage:

1) Pulling through the shot, this is my one thought.

2) Sighting, I float the "pin" which at the time I studied this stuff in detail, was how Barrs, the top IBO shooter, and HH did it. This is one advantage to instinctive, if you are hitting anything with it. You are not thinking about aiming, and only have 1) and 3) to handle. However some shooters say they are fiercely thinking aiming when they shoot instinctive, so back to the drawing board on that one.

3) Releasing. This is the one I don't have an automatic for. Recurve archers do it with the clicker, and compound archers with the back tension release. I do it by planting the idea that the process I am engaged in in 1) is not static but has the objective of arriving in the follow through position.

If you get a pop-up target, the target causes the releases, though there is a safety issue with that.

Many of the problems we have in sport are having the wrong mental picture. In golf the guy who hacks down on the ball (to varying degrees) is executing the "hit the ball message". He has the wrong cue. The steady as a rock so I don't miss idea, screws with getting from 1) to release, so you start thinking about the release, or bow weight or whatever.

I think it is worth shooting your bow with a back tension release to pattern the idea of what a huge surprise it is when an actual surprise release happens. Most people are not actually anything like surprised when the shot goes off, even with a release. But in a clinic setting, you can set some throw the bow downrange records.

There is an interesting tool for recurve archers, where you release the bow, and the string jumps forward about an inch (it is strapped to your elbow. Looks interesting. I have to make one yet. Good for dry firing, and also showing whether you actually have a surprise/expanding release.

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If bow weight is too heavy you will have that intrude;

If competition pressure is too heavy, that will intrude:

If it rains, or you are fighting with someone in the group, etc;

All I can say is that if you know what you should be doing, you have a better chance of doing it.

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Physiologically some people have the yipps. More likely in middle to advanced age. I don't know how one knows one has this problem. It required testing to discover that it happens. So it may not relate to other signs of age like tremors.

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A lot of people are committed to the deep mystery of TP. But that makes it essentially insoluble for a normal human. How long are 20 000 reprogramming shots at your local range going to take? It's as Dr. House used to say. Choose the therapy that promises the cure, otherwise, what is the point.

Also. TP isn't your fault, unless you make it your fault. It is a shot management issue. Not really a character flaw, though admittedly fear of failure isn't too manly, if that is where you take it.

Very appreciative of those participating in this thread and hope we can help at least one person.

I mentioned earlier that I've never been afflicted with tp. That said, having seen a couple friends battle it seemed, to me, bizarre.

I've thought, throughout this thread, about why I've been spared.

I'm probably way off base with this, but here goes. I've played many sports my whole life...a couple to fairly high levels of competition. In every sporting endeavor, I became a student of that sport.

I'm self taught in the basics of these games, but studied the best athletes and coaches. What I came across was the mental toughness of these world class performers.

Now, at age 64, my only sports are archery and golf. I did have a tremendous mentor in my early archery days, and owe him a great deal. Oddly enough, he fought tp on more than one occasion but always seemed to beat it back.

In golf, I plateaued a few years ago and absolutely stopped making ANY progress. I determined my issue was not physical, but mental and read a few books on golf psychology...one of the best, for me, was "Zen Golf; Mastering The Mental Game" by Dr Robert Parent.

What I discovered was I was over thinking the game...paralysis by analysis. I learned to trust my swing and to commit to the shot...don't address the ball until I was fully COMMITTED to the shot. Eliminate "the anyways"...I don't think...whatever...is right, but I'll "hit it anyway". I found this approach of positive thought process works with just about anything...including archery.

As far as performance anxiety...I agree, it's real.

That's something else I learned from Dr Parent. Example: reading a putt. Make my read, pick my line, find an intermediate target for alignment, choose my speed, and step in and putt. If I hit my line and intermediate target, chose the right speed...I made a successful putt. Irregardless of whether I holed it or not. I did what I planned, the ball just didn't drop.

Another thing is; once committed to "the shot", accept the outcome...good or bad. Archers can learn from that. We're humans, not machines. Our Creator designed us to fail...and did a good job...lol. Accept the outcome and move on.

Dunno if this makes any sense, and kinda hard to explain on a forum, but in talking face to face with plenty of time...it's pretty good stuff.

Maybe the bottom line is, we're just too damn hard on ourselves. Failure negatively affects some worse than others.

I told my hockey players failure teaches a great lesson...through failure, we learn what DOESN'T work...lets use a different approach.

Tough times don't last...tough people do.

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