Take a look

Unstrung

Hard to say, with the reflex, but I think the tiller is pretty good. Might be safer to have a little more bend in the middle third of the limbs.

What's the wood, draw weight, length, width?

I can't see very well with the background of trees but the top limb appears to me to have a fairly substantial hinge.

I don't think there's a hinge there. I think it's the background that's making it look weird.

According to the unstrung profile, and knowing how Arvin usually shapes his front profile, I'd say the tiller is quite well done and the limbs are flexing evenly along their length. It would be nice to see drawn pic with a consistent background that makes it easier to see.

I like the lower limb, but the upper looks like it needs more out of the middle.

I'm confused. Is this Arvin or Jeff's bow? As Jeff said, the reflex makes it tough to judge. Not sure many of us are qualified to judge Arvin's tiller? Lol

What do you mean check your tiller? You are one of the best bow whittlers around. I see those shavings and chips all over the ground. I would like to have that bow or any one of the others you have made. I would check the tiller and report back to you ever day. :^) Don't shoot the cabin,there is a clearing down hill in front of you. Ken

Pic

Ok guys the outer limbs look a little stiff to me. My question is will the reflex in the ends cause this to look stiff on the ends? This is a 45# bow , 69" , 10" handle ,1 1/2 " at fades, 1-1/4 at mid limb ,3/16 at knoch. Cast a 500gr. arrow 205 yds. At this point I won't worry about tiller unless it was to take a drastic change. I don't see that happening though. Does a straight stave bow just have a more even arc. You all know I am not the physics guy. Arvin

Ah it was the trees messing with my eyes it looks great like that.

On second thought that tiller looks dangerously hinged better ship it to me quick. :^) Ken

I've always found, that the more reflex in the outer limbs, the more tricky it is to figure tiller (for me anyway). I did a bunch of hickory backed board bows a few years back that I induced a bunch of r/d into. Tillering is very different on these. That said, your's looks about perfect to me Arvin.

Osage Jim. Arvin

Juspassin I tend to agree with you on upper midlimb. I still don't think I will change it till I go see how far it will go against the pros. Arvin

Arvin, yes, the reflex will make it 'look stiff' there when it's actually flexing the same amount as the rest of the limb.

The limbs' shapes look good relevant to the unstrung profile. But what I see is the bottom limb looks a bit too strong. See how the bow is tilting in your hand a little, the bottom limb coming toward you? I would correct that by removing wood evenly along the limb, exercise it to register the correction, then reassess.

Yes, reflex is what I mention in the first comment. The outer limbs are bending--from reflexed to slightly bent at full draw. It IS hard to know how much they are bending.

The 205 yard cast sounds good to me, so I don't think the outer limbs are just along for the ride.

Now, the part that's left--shooting it--is what I like best.

Looks real close to me, but bottom limb maybe a tad stronger as Jeff stated. If it's shooting good with little hand shock I would leave it alone until it is well shot in then tweek if you so desire.

I think the tiller is excellent. Jawge

Looks good to me, but IV never made a selfbow. Except for a couple stick bows when I was a kid.. JF

I think the bottom is too heavy also. And I think it could bend jut a bit farther out. Yes, reflex appears flat when its pulled out. I still think you could bend just a few more inches outward because your reflex doesn't start mid limb.

Bentstick54, shooting a bow in with the limbs unbalanced in strength relative to our holds can cause unnecessary set.

Good thoughts above, but I still think that with the reflex, and more importantly the cast of 205 yards with an 11 gpp arrow, the bow has little room for improvement.

Nice work I say.

Arvy how much reflex did you have right off the grip before you starting bending on it?

Pearl, after what you said about where the reflex starts I went back and looked at the unbraced picture, because I thought I saw it starting more toward mid-limb. In the unbraced pic, the near limb's reflex looks to start near mid-limb while the far limb looks to have the reflex more toward the outer limb... maybe just due to camera angle or something. It's tough to judge these things in just a couple of pictures.

Pearl I lost 1" in the reflex total. It went from 3-1/2 to about 2-3/4". It appears to me I lost it at the fades. The handle bends back toward the archer a tad in the top portion. This may count for the top limb having a1/8 " more bend in it at brace. It might just be my tiller though. I don't have a plywood grid for checking my tiller. I have a 300# scale that hangs above the door of my bow shop. I hang the string on it and pull the bow down to check my tiller. This way I don't pull past my intended bow weight. I have only built a hand full of bows with this much reflex so I am still learning . Arvin

Arvin, it looks good,, the unstrung profile is telling you you got it bending even,, some nice suggestions from above,, the bottom limb might be a bit stiffer,, I would go slow on adjusting that, it might come around a bit on its own,, nice bow,,

Good point about taking set Jeff, with that said I would leave it alone and not risk taking to much off.

It may very well come around on its own eventually... but isn't tillering largely about keeping that from happening?

Yes Jeff I will probably get to that bottom limb. I already corrected it some . I won't be shooting this bow much at all till next fall. After I see how far it sends 500 gr. In the flats. I don't want it to loose any more weight at this point. I thank all of you guys for your input. If it goes over the 222 yards it will be a group effort . Arvin

I like the tiller shape, I don't go by full draw tiller as held by the hand. I still believe it goes back to tillering for the arrow position as soon as you release the string. I think you are fine.

Arvin, If I could give you one tip on something you have a lot of control over it would be how cleanly the arrow comes out of the bow. The difference between coming out clean and coming out perfect can be a few FPS by the time the arrow straightens out. Lots of extra drag when it is traveling a little bit sideways for a short distance. I believe the 50# self broadhead will eventually reach 250 yards. Likely more since they have lowered the arrow weights.

If I were you I would check my distance with 450 grain arrows and 500 grain arrows to see how great the difference is.

Will do Steve. Why did they lower the arrow weight? Arvin

Will do Steve. Why did they lower the arrow weight? Arvin

Ok Steve the 446 gr. arrow went 200 out of a bow that I got 205 with 500 gr. No wind to speed of but the 446 arrow had a 5" fletch and it was cloudy and humid. I don't think you will see much of a difference myself . But I have been wrong before. Arvin

I like the tiller, but may like the zip line better. Seriously, it looks good.

The zip line is my fling turkey.

Tiller looks even on both limbs to me but I personally prefer a bit more bend in the outer limb. Those tips are holding up great.I sure do not see any hinge anywhere. If you have the poundage you want I would leave it right there if it shoots good for you.

God bless, Steve

Looks good to me Arvin, I like the stiffer outer limb and if the bottom is a bit heaver as it appears in the picture I like that also especially for a 3 under shooter. That much reflex will make the outer look stiffer anyway. Pappy

So is tiller in the eye of the beholder, does performance have any weight in whether a bow is tillered well or not

I am sure Mr Brown knows his bows when it comes to flight. I have a 26" draw so I am not sure what a nother 2" s is going to make when drawn in the arc. I think maybe you could be right on the tiller at a longer draw Runner. I was pulling the bow to 27- 28" in flight test. I get off the string pretty fast. Arvin

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