I've been conversing with Batman on the subject of wild shoot arrows and thought I'd bring the subject up here. Popular opinion advises we harvest shoots in the winter, when sap is not running, as it will help prevent the ends from cracking. You leave the bark on and hand straighten the shafts, here and there, while keeping them bundled most of the time. My opinion on the subject differs, and I'll tell you why. I advise you to wait until spring when the sap is starting to flow. Harvest then, and you can peel the bark off in a minute with your fingernails. On all species I've harvested (red osier, gray dogwood, black ash, soft maple, white willow and chokecherry) the fat end (end closest to the ground) will form a crack. This is ok, as you cut the shoots long, about 42", and will cut the fat end off anyway. After you peel the bark off, you immediately start straightening, and there is no need at all for bundling. In fact, bundling will make for a more crooked arrow. You have to get right on it and straighten several times daily for about a week or a little less. Then, the shafts will be drying well and hand straightening is concluded. Later, if needed, you can heat straighten. Really, the secret to getting a straight arrow is to get a super straight shoot to begin with. Probably 1 in a 100 shoots that look straight is straight enough to make a great arrow. You have to be extremely selective. Of my first 24 arrows, I got 10 that are hunting straight. The other 14 were made from the first shoots I collected and were crooked. They looked straight until I learned what straight is. Right now, I can go out and collect shoots that are just about straight enough to shoot without straightening! It's a skill that you develop from experience. So, in a few months, get out there and grab shoots, but be very selective.

Joe

Mickey Lotz, the ferret was the best wild shoot shaft maker ever. Just look up some of his old posts if you want to do it right!! Scooby

Doesn't make a bit of difference when you harvest them. It's all about what you do with them after.

Frisky I agree with you except for a couple of things. 1. Shoots are few and far between,with the exception of cane, in my neck of the woods. I can't be so selective and have to make do. The big stands of cane are about an hour away. 2. I can't find the time to straighten them several times a day or even to get on them immediately, so I bundle them to a dowel or broomstick, until I can. Can't afford over a 50% failure rate either. :^) Ken

I agree that time constraints is a reason for bundling. However, it doesn't help straightness one bit. It's better to peel off the bark and start in straightening. Everyone has the time to straighten immediately, so lack of time really isn't the issue. It's lack of effort, as it only takes a minute on each shaft, twice a day for less than a week. If you do it right, you might look at 500 shoots and pick 5 at the most. That's 10 minutes a day straightening. I do them when I'm in bed!

I really don't have a 50% failure rate. More like a 99% success rate if I apply heat to the crooked ones. 100% now that I know how to choose straight shoots. Don't have to heat them. It's all in the shoot you choose. When I say I got 10 hunting shafts, I'm talking about choosing the very straightest. I'll cut those down to 4 to actually take hunting.

Joe

Frisky, there was a smiley face. I still don't have hundreds and hundreds of shoots to pick from but I am with you man. Ken

2 bears- I saw the smiley and didn't take it personally, smiley or not, lol! I was just pointing out I neglected to do much of any heat straightening or the lousy fliers would improve. Out of 21, 2 shot terribly. They're way off! Others grouped into about 12" at 13 yards which is unacceptable. Then I had about 10 that grouped close. I really thought I'd have only 2 or 3 good fliers and the rest poor, so I was happy with my initial results. You need to look hard for shoots. I assumed we had no shoots growing around here, as so much of the suitable land has been destroyed by farming. As I began to look and learn, shoots began to appear, in patches, all over the place! The Indians here before white settlement would have had them everywhere! They would have had straight arrows.

Monkeyball- I'd like to find birch shoots of any species. I don't know if we have black birch.

Joe

What I'm getting at is you place the shoots in a pile by your bed. Before you go turn out the lights, you pick up the pile and start hand straightening each shoot and lay it back on the floor. When you get through them, you turn out the lights and go to sleep. You do the same thing when you get up. If you go to work, you bring along the shoots and straighten them during a break. It takes only 3 to 5 days before they stop correcting and are well on their way to becoming an arrow,

Joe

Joe you have gone the distance and physically learned by hands on experience.Thats a lot better than just talking about doing it.Ya know some folk just talk but don't do it.I don't have time to straighten shoots everyday for a week or two .A preliminary straightening and bundleing works OK too.I think it's more important to have any wood be it shoots or split or sawn shaft blanks to be fully dry and seasoned.It is obviously easier to straighten green stock however I would prefere to only do 1 preliminary straightening and bundle and a final straightening one once the wood is seasoned and stable.Although stable wood may require heat to achieve good results it will generally stay straight.Thats what I prefere for shoots.With sawn or split blanks I prefere to cut blanks oversize and stress relieve my blanks by use of a hand plane.Question for ya Frisky how do you find the time to be constantly be hand straightening shoot shafts?Oh and time to collect them all?I presume that you would just harvest shafts when opportunity is there.You keep on keeping these folk honest Joe. Osr

Osr144- I agree on much of what you wrote. This spring, I'll pick a day and go get shoots. It takes about an hour. I fit straightening into my day with ease. I could work a 20 hour day and still get shoots straightened. It's just a matter of whether or not a few minutes a day is worth it.

Joe

O.K. Frisky, I am going to look hard. Which do you think would work the best cactus or Mesquite? :^) Ken

Mesquite.

Yeah Joe your average guy or girl would get time for straightening easily.Unfortunately I have to dedicate 99% of my time assisting my family .The wife is wheel chair bound and I am also assisting my daughter with twin premature babies who require oxygen 24/7.I really like the potential shoots have in making fine arrows.I do have a few native Australian shoots and some introduced European shoots. As yet I haven't done much with them .See I am at the moment one of those folk who talk about doing it but haven't as yet.I at least have about 70 odd shoots cut bundled and dried.I like an arrow straightening tool and an electric hot plate for a heat source.the tool I like is like Korean arrow makers use.I tend to think you will become quite an authority on shoot arrow making.jawge is great and is an inspiration and you are becoming that too.keep feeding me I am hungry for Imformation. Osr

LOL! Jawge is the king of the shoot arrows, but he needs some pressure. In past times, people bundled shoots like you're doing. They'll keep and improve with age. The only time they didn't bundle was spring. It's human nature to be like I am and take the easy route, just quickly peeling off that bark. They also could be using that arrow within a month. They wouldn't be ideal, but they dry to usability surprisingly fast! In fact, once the bark is off, most hand straightening is no longer possible after less than a week, as they just get too dry and stop correcting. I'd like to go on a birding expedition today and cut some shoots. The time is supposed to be ripe. However, they'd be far more work than cutting them in the spring and getting that bark off. So, I'm going to wait. In your situation, I'd get them when I could and bundle them as you've done.

Joe

Frisky is right about keeping up with the straightening. Eventually, as you straighten it registers on the shafts. I like to keep mine bundled in groups of 6 or so and unbundle everyday and straighten.Thanks for the kind words. Check my site for more. Jawge

http://traditionalarchery101.com

Straighten sticks - watch Hill Street Blues? Fish - cut bait? Decisions - decisions? I'm getting a bit anxious. Time for a beer.

I have found the technique Frisky mentioned, cut with sap flowing, immediately peel, and immediately staighten to work great. The bark peels off with very little effort. The shoots are a snap to straighten, but you do have to stay after it, every few minutes initially. You have a time investment in that straightening procedure. They actually dry extremely fast in the dry climate here in CO. In fact I have found they quite dry by the next day if left exposed to direct sun and wind. Stay after the straightening and you'll get really nice shafts.

Man likely did this exact technique prior to recorded history. It is that natural and that good. Also, I have found arrow shafts don't need anywhere near modern carbon straightness and perfection to shoot where you look at short range. In addition making shafts yourself gets you more out of the sport.

Ancient men had plenty of time on their hands. They were hunters and defenders. Arrow making was a main job! Like me, they liked to shoot and not sit around scraping the bark off of shoots if they didn't have to. They also needed arrows and liked the idea of having them dry quickly into something usable. They didn't want to bundle arrows and then have them sitting around, unused, for a year! They only did this to put in a stockpile of shoots for winter arrow building work.

Joe

If I was an Indian, I'd be known as Chief Many Arrows or Chief Full Quiver. That's a lot better than Chief MTQuiver or Chief Bundlehead.

Joe

Here's the photo I meant to use.

Joe

It's interesting, as everyone who sees and holds them, says the goose fletched are nicer than the turkey. I like both.

Joe

Those arrows are calling for a self bow to make them fly.

I plan to make a selfbow with my hackberry stave.

Anyway, in ancient times, real men were hunters and fighters. Building and maintaining equipment WAS their work! Today, we have all these sissies out helping in the kitchen like I was just doing. Today, we have all of these sissies doing laundry like I did yesterday. We need to MAKE TIME for our arrow building!

Joe

Very nice arrows Joe.

There's a space between are and the comma Pat. That plus not knowing what a 2X10 looks like (!?) means you're off your game a bit. :D

In poker terms, I'd call the 'ask for ipe rip dimension' thing a tell. :wink:

I married a bartender. Her sister quilts. I'll ask her and get back to you. lol

Speaking of shoot arrow length, the Plains Indians used shafts in the 22 to 25 inch range. Ishi, out on the West Coast, had some very long ceremonial arrows. I've found it easy to get clear and straight 25" shafts, but I'd only use them for arrows I make for kids. I cut my shoot shafts to 30". I'll go as short as 29" if I have to take out crookedness. It's very hard to get a straight 30" length. That's why you have to look at hundreds of shoots to find a few with a 30" straight section.

Joe

Yup, Joe, men with experience know what's what. Right Pat? Hey Pat are you gonna load your wood bow pics on the other thread, or what? :D

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