Just curious but I took my Flemish string of some type of FF off and put on a B50 material string and I felt a lot of shock/vibration when I shot it. I haven't had a B50 on in years and was wondering if this is normal and I just forgot.

I think it can happen with some bows, but not all. After some comments on low stretch improving the feel, I have been using D97 on some vintage bows and find that most, not all, do give a better dead-in-the-hand feel.

Yep, B50 will definetly add vibration.

Absolutely...it stretches more so will vibrate more...think of a rubber band.

Yes, I don,t care for it at all. Even on a very heavy Schafer and others it feels like a big old rubber band to me after shooting the new high performance stuff.

No. It has to do with the construction of the string. You can build a low stretch string that will cause shock as well.

B-50 typically allows for more limb movement as mentioned. But it doesn't CAUSE shock.

Sounds to me like your brace height may be too low. Ditto fdp, not the cause.

I've always found B-50 to be more "foregiving" on the shot, compared to FF. Bob

Dacron isn't fit to make boot laces with.

I wouldn't say that it causes the shock. I think that a more accurate statement would be that it doesn't help to dampen vibration as well as other materials. A pair of string puffs works wonders with B50 and B55.

I have had some bows vibrate or feel more lively with certain string types. some felt better with Dacron, some worse.

I had a wes Wallace recurve come with a D97. it shot and felt horrible. I put a B50 on it and it was an entirely different bow.

I put a B50 on a Horne recurve, and it was the complete opposite of the wes Wallace experience.

as a general rule for me, most recurves of mine prefer B50, and longbows D97 or similar.

Yes.

The differences in stretch or creep are measurable but which works "better" is somewhat subjective.

I've used (and still use) a lot of b50 and b55 strings and I think they work well enough.

I had one new bow come with a skinny 8190 string and I didn't like anything about it. It was a pain to serve it so it fit my nocks and I did NOT like the way it sounded.

I made a dacron string for it because that's what I had and I've been shooting it that way ever since. Between the endless loop 8190 that came with it and the flemish dacron that I made, I'll take my string any day.

I just got another bow that was packaged with a 16 strand d97 flemish string and I like it fine.

I'll probably order a spool of d97 and see how I like that on the other bow.

You guys have any decent 56 or 58 inch dacron you dont want, send them over to me. Ive never had a problem with them.

I never had a problem with B50 and hand shock, and I've been using B50 for a very long time.

Hey easy - that's me you're talking about :(

..old people inWalmart tighty whiteys. Anyway, Elkhuntr makes me want to try Dacron on my Wallace. I've never liked the way it's felt on the shot. Tried replacing original D97 w/ BCY-X. Different, but still not happy. This isn't the first time I've heard of his bows shooting "better" w/ a Dacron string.

Thanks for the replies guys. After a couple shots, I put the old string back on. Will keep the B50 as a backup.

Some say to increase brace height on B-50 to reduce limb tip movement. And for me I notice it helps.

It does as far as I'm concerned and that's all that matters to me. Im the one shooting the bow and I'm the one that knows what hand shock is/feels like.

The new material strings they make now are superior to Dacron, just like Dacron was better then the materials before.

Try B55.

k -

No it does not, but will require a different tune than you would use with newer materials.

Viper out.

Hand shock comes from gripping too tightly. Same with torque.

And just what the heck is wrong with whitey tightys? Sure beats "commando" all hollow.

Perceived handshock is caused by numerous things, The least of common of which is grip.

Handshock comes from bows being improperly tuned. IE, brace height, arrow weight, release, and so on.

What Elkhuntr said. Also, I've found with B50 I have to raise the brace height compared to low stretch strings. I've found different bows like different string materials. As stated above, how the string is made makes a difference.

To rephrase my first comment...perhaps not handshock, but Dacron does create greater vibration than low stretch which is unpleasant and distracting both to feel and to hear.

To eliminate some of the vibration the string must be silenced, and that affects the string's performance. Even with silencing the Dacron produces more vibration than the modern materials.

Mechanically, unintended vibration is never a good thing.

After performing actual comparisons on over a dozen vintage recurves no more Dacron for me.

Like others have said,it must depend on the bows and brace height. I have always thought B55 was less shocky exactly for the rubber band reason. It has a little give at the end of the stroke so less shock. Could be we sense or describe vibration differently. Ken

Has anyone sought evidence one way or the other by way of a FAIR comparison with actual test equipment?

I suspect vibration and shock can be felt and measured as two different products of a bow and the inherent performance qualities of various string materials can affect them each to greater or lesser extents.

I have no proof, but it doesn't seem unreasonable that the slight stretch in B50 may act as a shock absorber if the bow itself is made so that it's prone to shock the archer's hand, or he holds it so that it does(i.e. string isn't the root cause), while a material with less stretch, less give, concentrates those effects in a more compressed time frame, making it feel more pronounced. Perhaps the same qualities of the low stretch string that add a few fps to the arrow may also add to the acceleration that is part of the hand shock equation??

B50 = more/longer vibration, less shock?

Low stretch = less vibration, more shock?

Don't know.

Just kinda thinking out loud here.

What I do know is the bows I've shot with low stretch strings on them felt more sharp or harsh upon release and the sound was more noticeable. I say noticeable because I may have noticed it more because it was different than what I was used to, not necessarily louder. Purely subjective. I do have an accelerometer, now I guess I need to get a decibel meter app for my phone too.

I have fast flight on some of my bows and B50 on others. The only bow that I cannot seem to tune the handshock out of, is a '59 Bear Polar. I use B50 on this bow because I am afraid fast flight will break the tiny little tips on this classic bow. I will admit I am a little more than curious as to whether a skinny modern string would eliminate all the hand shock from this bow.

"Dacron is very stretchy and twangy. It's best used to make elastic bands in cheap Walmart whitey tightys that old people wear."

Dang, you hit a quadruple. In only two sentences you managed to denigrate B50, Walmart, tighty whities and old people. LOL

"To eliminate some of the vibration the string must be silenced, and that affects the string's performance."

Hill styles shoot Dacron well without needing silencers on the string. My 70"er does anyway. Quiet and well-behaved.

I believe there is some misinterpretation as to what is handshock and what is actually vibration. For the most part, handshock is inherently related to poor bow design, poor tiller, heavy tips or a combination. None of which will be cured 100 percent by one string or the other. Vibration can usually be dealt with fairly easy by tuning, proper string construction(even on high stretch), proper release( which is where I see a lot of vibration come from and is just exaggerated by string plucking). If handshock is a persistent problem no matter what string material is used then I would suggest hanging it on the wall or cutting it up. Otherwise it's just vibration that should be dealt with by tuning.

Jeff, that is my thinking and experience exactly. Not scientific though. Just my own bows. I like B55. We were discussing hand shock not performance. It is all good. Ken

I use Dacron B-50 on all of my long bows no hand shock at all. and D-97 on recurves.

For me I use some type of low stretch string on all my bows,longbows and recurves.Handshock is felt different to each shooter.I have been making my own strings for over 20+ years and can feel the difference between B50 and a low stretch string.Not a fan of dacron,feels springy and can cause handshock in my opinion on some bows.Years ago when I did use dacron I preferred an endless loop dacron.These days I prefer a low stretch type string on all my bows.I have used D97,8125,8190,450+,Ultra Cam and now my favorite is BCY-X.And I don't use it for any kind of performance increase,it just makes the bow feel more solid and not springy.

Runner, I've noticed that the folks who complain about "shock" are into tight gripping.

Shock is something someone feels, isn't a characteristic of a bow, string, or setup. If you hold any reasonable bow properly you will rarely feel shock.

I've used Dacron for 51 years and never felt handshock from it. But then I don't feel any handshock from HIlls either. Right now I have 2 new bows I haven't made new strings for yet. They have d97 on em. Both the recurve and longbow have that thud or "thunk" sound at the release. My other recurve and longbow have dacron and are silent except for a slight swishhh of the string cutting air. Most times felt hand shock on a well designed bow is from a poor release with a tight grip on the bow or a low brace and light arrow.

relativity exists always, subjectivity, not so much

Once again, how do you discuss something that people can't very well describe. Hand shock is such a subjective term that it defies definition most times. I have never witnessed hand shock in a recurve. I do notice more after shot vibration in most bows with Dacron, but much of that can be deleted with the use of endless loop strings. In my opinion, just based on feel and the need for stiffer arrows, that FF style material vibrates less, thereby getting more power to the arrow itself. Your mileage may vary, but I've been using it since about 2008'ish.

It would seem to me that Dacron would act as a shock absorber. What would be more comfortable to drive. A car with, or without shocks and springs? MP

With out a doubt all of my longbows feel better to me with low stretch.

Never had a problem with Dacron strings on any bow in over 50 yrs. Hand shock is more common in a bow with heavy glass/wood in the limbs, or poor timing and would be felt with any string. If the string has enough strands for the bow, brace height, nocking point and arrow fine, I would probably switch back if the bow is rated for FF.

I shot a homemade maple lam a few years ago, the kid missed his target pounds of 60 pounds by 60 pounds. Surprisingly enough it looked like the tiller was fairly close. He bought an 18 strand B 50 for it. It took him and two of his buddies to load it. I drew it, it felt about the same as when I drew my two 64 pound Schulz bows at the same time. I dug out a couple of microflite 12s. I swear my eyeballs changed socket when I let go of the string. That thing hurt. Oddly in comparison, my 64 pound Schulz Legend had very very little hand shock with a B50 string.

To me, the shock absorber analogy applies in the opposite way.

A stretchy material would create the effect of bad shocks, allowing limb movement to continue after the arrow releases from the string.

get one of those 20lb glass bows and put an 18 strand b50 on it and you will understand the hand shock without any farther explanation.....ron

I expect an arrow being propelled out of my bow being held in my hand at 175 feet per sec or so to give me some felt recoil , how much i feel is what were discussing here , Yes string type has made a big difference in what i have felt just as arrow weight and other things have

To the OP,

Your bow was tuned to the FF. Switching strings of dirrering material causes the bow to act differently. Tune your bow to the Dacron string and then switch to the FF string. It will again feel/act different and need retuning.

My preference is B55 for everything.

gluetrap that's a very poor analogy. That is an example of a string that is severely over weight, thereby moving foar too much weight.

"A bow without handshock CAN be gripped tightly or at least firmly"

Lol, why would you want to. That's not the proper or even the most accurate way to shoot a bow. You sound like it's something people want. It causes torque on some shots or at least allows it.

I don't know much about strings. I've only been building, experimenting, and testing them in just about every configuration imaginable, and with just about every material imaginable for several decades now, so this is just my 2 cents worth.

Polyester strings don't create hand shock, but they DO NOTHING to help relieve it, or to relieve vibration.

No matter how well a dacron/polyester string is built/prestretched/conditioned, or how long it has been shot in, it WILL STILL stretch, and contract A LOT at the apex of the shot. That elasticity may subside some, but it will never go away.

That stretching, and contracting allows the limbs to travel quite a bit past brace during the shot creating a forward lurch which allows, or even enhances hand shock in some cases, and dramatically enhances vibration.

YES, you can tune a polyester string to be fairly tame by raising brace heights, and adding exorbitant amounts of weight to the arrows, but you are generally doing so at the expense of significant (sometimes extreme) amounts of performance loss.

The bottom line is - dacron/polyester strings don't even/won't ever remotely come close to behaving as well on a bow (any bow), or helping a bow (any bow) to behave as well as good fast flight variety strings do.

Of course, the tune will need to be different between the two, but that should go without saying.

As always - make sure your bow is capable of handling a FF string should you desire to use one on it. Most are.

Rick

I think it makes less actual hand shock but more vibration

Gluetrap said "get one of those 20lb glass bows and put an 18 strand b50 on it and you will understand the hand shock without any farther explanation.....ron"

I have an old solid glass bow...the kind with the molded plastic handle that's marked 40#.

I have an endless loop dacron string on it ( I don't know how many strands). While nobody in their right mind would argue that it's a "great" bow, I actually shoot quite a bit and I think it shoots pretty good.

"Hand shock" certainly isn't an issue.

All bows have some hand shock/vibration of some sort. From a little to nocking your fillings out.

By saying you don't feel any hand shock or your not holding the bow right, you need heavier arrows etc etc. Maybe your trying to fool yourself with some of your statements but your not fooling me.

Yeah n they used to bleed people back then also, doesn't make it right.

Ive been making strings for about 10 years for my longbows and I have found TS1 material with 1/2 beaver balls make the best string for good longbows

I'm sure people do now a days and guess what? They use a sling so they won't hold the bow tight, or at all. So guess all the worlds target shooters are wrong. laterz guys time to go do something constructive.

One last thing, he's not telling you that you should grip the bow. He's telling you how to get the bow to settle into your hand for a proper grip. They all held the bow back then since no one had come up with or knew the need to not hold the bow tight.

I bought a 20lb glass bow at yd sale ,had a string looked like panty hose material. I replaced it with a Dacron string whoa, my bad, put original string on and it shot great. the Dacron on a regular wood and glass bow works fine. had a 68" longbow jarred my hand,got skinny string and raised brace and was fine. had a compound bow with handshock that was very focused to a tiny spot on the palm of my hand. I thought the grip was pinching my hand. felt like a bee sting. also I didn't mean for my original post above to be an analogy. I meant it literally, if you have not ever shot a bow with hand shok ,give it a try. hand shock is real. like everybody else I have shot a bunch of bows and noticeable hand shock is very rare jmo....ron

Some grips are designed that when shot with a straight arm and straight wrist, if the thing is squeezed hard, every thing is set at angles that creates torque. Other grips if they are sized properly and held properly, a bit of pressure will make no difference. A bow that shoots good with a B50 string, has a lot of other things that it does right as well.

Shock would be easy to measure if anybody really cared. Same with torque Vs grip.

I pretty much build and shoot 8 strand 450+ endless strings. This last hunting season I shot and hunted with a selfbow that came with a B 50 Dacron string. Flawless arrow flight and blew through a deer like it wasn't even there. Might give it a serious try again.

Sorry guys, but are you reading different text books to me? How can limb vibration be the cause of shock? Shock is a sudden motion with a immediate decay wave of the bow, transferred through to the skeleton of the archer. The movement of the limbs is an attenuation of shock not a transferal of it.

Please explain to me how everything I thought I knew about vibration, the application of force and the transference of force suddenly seems to be wrong.

Phil, was I on the right track with my first post up there?

I had a longbow that, when I shot it, the bottom limb would come around and hit me in the ass. I tried stuff with it, until I took too much off and destroyed the bow. At a shoot a fellow was trying to sell a bow, I saw that look in a bow before. Took a test shot, the damn thing hit me in the ass. Doing his sales pitch, he goes, "Nice and smooth, right?" I told him to shoot it for me so I could see the limbs bend. He said, "sure I'll show what this bow can do." He shot and it hit him in the ass.

was that a whippenstik?

I try to hold the same amount i do when i am going to the bathroom that way i don't grip too hard.

I shoot B50 on all my ASL's and they shoot great!

Now, whats this handshock you speek of?

Hand shock is when you squeeze that ASL so hard that the resin oozes out of the riser, you lock you bow arm, and jerk back like the string is hot. You know you have done it right when your jump out of the sockets. If you are shooting an asl and not feeling hand shock, it is still there for a target shooter, you simply have developed the proper reactions to the bow to absorb it without a jolt. Actually, it is a myth that all all have hand shock. I have long bows with Chad BCY strings that have less vibration and shock than a good recurve with any kind of string. Those same bows shoot fine with a three spline B50 as well. Of course, I am shooting them with a slightly bent bow arm and a low bow shoulder, I hold them tight enough so they do not move in my hand on release.

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