From: Dkincaid
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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Lately I've been reading up on Fred bears field notes and came upon his item invoice. The invoice shows that a 1959 or 58 Kodiak cost 36$ which was at a 60% discount according to his information. If you had paid full price for that bow it would have been around 635$ give or take in today's dollars. Prices have stayed fairly consistent with bear bows it would seem over time. I used a online inflation calculator so I don't know how accurate it was just a fun observation.
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From: r-man
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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art work ain't cheap .
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From: Babbling Bob
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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Ain't even close to getting old or passing old gas Kung Fu Caveman, but did buy a hundred new Rose City cedar shafts for $40 just a few years ago. My new factory Brazilian rosewood hunting bow with gray glass cost $65 then.
Had two seals replaced in my transmission on my five year old 1957 Ford for $80 around that time, and later, in Graduate school, had to pay the inflated price of $16,000 for my first three bedroom house, because of its close location within walking distance from the university.
Not buying any more of those $65 rosewood bows for my rack this year. Rather go down the road for a $100 steak dinner.
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From: RymanCat
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT ARROWS COULD BE 200?
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From: RymanCat
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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OR BROADHEADS 100.00 IMAGINE THAT.
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From: M60gunner
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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I got a copy of Bear's 1962 catalog. Those $12 a doz. arrows came in your choice of colors as well and full length dipped. $65 for the top of the line Kodiak that year.
But who would have thought feathers a buck apiece and not even natural barred?
Yes some items have just kept up with inflation but there are a few that have gone wild. Anything labeled as a men's hobby or sport automatically gets jacked up.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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Us old farts were making over twice the fifty cents an hour...even out here in the country. LOL. I'll have you know I was making $60.00 a week on my first full time job. But yes, if you take costs at retail to income per week you will see nothing much has changed. It's always fun though to look back and say we should have bought more. Fact is we couldn't afford those bows any more than a $700.00 one now. That $240.00 a month had to pay rent, car payment, buy groceries and anything else we needed at the time.
What those days did for us though, was help us appreciate those old bows and know they were, and are all we need. So that said, we can enjoy the sport a lot cheaper than those who like buying a new custom every year. It's great to live in a country that lets you achieve your desires, whether it's a room full of beautiful customs, or a wall hanging with 60's beauties. Things could be a lot worse.
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From: PECO
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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I can not get my head around a bow costing over $9,000. Maybe even more, I had to stop after the first page, of bows in stock. I take my bows to the woods, scuff and scratch them. They are for recreational and hunting purposes. Sure, I have a compass Kodiak, and 2 aluminum limb Bears I don't shoot. But they have a very high coolness factor to me, and cost less than a dozen of the best arrows.
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From: Bowlim
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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Did Fred get bows off the line?
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From: reddogge
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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Believe me, in 1967 when I bought a new 1967 Grizzly for $49 I wasn't bragging about it. In fact I wanted a Kodiak but they were over $65 and I couldn't hack it.
Kung Fu, we did about as much with the little bit of money we earned as we could. I was fortunate to own one bow, one .22 rifle and one single barrel shotgun, a couple of fishing rods. Enough to get me out in the woods, water and field all year.
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From: camodave
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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No reason to believe Fred did not simply get bows off the line...They often got modified so he could use his bow hand as the arrow rest...Papa Bear had faith in his products
DDave
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From: Dkincaid
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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From his book I know he always took a few extra and gave them to folks all over the world. I'm sure he used whatever was the most current model so that his films would be advertising.
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From: Bowlim
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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I think there is plenty of reason to think he didn't get bows off the line. Exhibit one being the limbs looked a lot narrower in some of the camp shooting scenes, at the time I thought more like Widow limbs. Or like the limbs on my Ghost. I thought Nels made his bows for him. That is not the same as saying that he didn't have confidence in his product. He seemed to believe in some of the films that the main quality people were looking for was durability. It would be surprising if his needs were the same as the average of the national market. It would be surprising if he was just one person in that market, but he was a lot more sophisticated than that.
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From: reddogge
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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He did get them off of the line before they were finished. In his little workshop at the plant he modified the shelves and grips to his liking and turned them back over to the plant for finishing.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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Funny that Nels made them when he didn't work for Bear after the move to Grayling around 1947. As reddogge said above.
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From: GLF
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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One thing no one is considering is that nothing sold for suggested retail in the 60's, or even in the 80's. I bought Martin Cougar Magnums for just under 200 bucks and sold em for 249. The suggested retail was 339. Competition kept merchandize well below suggested retail in most markets. Here's a warehouse trying to look cheaper than anyone by showing suggested retail and then showing "his price". Which is what everyone sold em for. If you notice a super k sold for 79.95. They now sell for 799.95. My dad made 3.50 per hour in the late 60's. I knew this because he always thru it up to me when I ask for something, lol. That same factory now pays 12 dollars per hour. The price is 10 times what it was in 69 but the salary isn't even close to 10 times as much. Things have gone up a ton. If you figure it up you'll find that a working class man would have to make around 80k per year to live like he did in the late 60's and early 70's. He actually makes around 30k-35k depending on location and the factory. Hamburger around where I lived went from 99 cents per pound to 4 dollars a pound in 2000 because of fuel prices and hasn't ever come back down. At that time salaries were at an all time low around here.
Fred had limbs made from lots of different woods. He gave one of his better dealers a couple sets of black locust limbs one time that I was sittin talking to him. He said his bows came from stock, but that he liked to experiment with different woods in limbs sometimes.
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From: CMF_3
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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Businesses only charge what people will pay for their product. Otherwise, they go under. In a competitive market this will always be the case.
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From: GLF
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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A top line bow in 69 was about 2/3's of 1 working class weekly paycheck.
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From: RymanCat
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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Pay your own health insurance then tell us about expense! You young guys aren't paying for us old guys. We still have to wipe your butts and pay for you till the day we die.LOL
Bows are cheap any always have been even if they are now some are $2,500.00. Have a boat and freeloaders that want to go off your Laurels.
No different than wanting to sit your stands. LOL
Hows that for reason Georogie porgie.LOL
Health insurance is now 1/3 or more in the family settings per year.
The ones who ran this country let all this happen!
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From: Dkincaid
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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People's notion of top of the line has changed alot since then. It seems like people nowadays only want woods they can't spell or that grow in a far off land or triple carbon space polymer infused with Eagle tears. Same can be said for most things. People that are considered poor now still have air conditioning, cable, cell phones, cars etc. We do still have poverty but nothing like the 20s through the 50's. My grandparents basically raised me and they were a product of the depression no matter how underpaid or under appreciated we may be life is still way better than it could be.
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From: goldentrout_one
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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Even if the Bear factory pays the bow builders $12/hr, Bear's cost is not just that - there's matching SS cost, worker's comp, vacation, and most likely medical insurance. Our medical plan costs about $1,200 per month for family coverage - our company pays $900 of that. I'm sure those hidden costs were a fraction of what they are today back in the late 50s/early 60s. But so were the benefits....
All things considered, bows and arrows are probably a bit more expensive than they used to be, but the difference isn't huge.
One major difference is this - IN THE OLD DAYS THE BEAR DEALER COULD SELL FOR A DISCOUNT, BUT TODAY I THINK BEAR DEALERS ARE REQUIRED TO SELL AT A MINIMUM PRICE. I think Sage fly rods started this - in a way, it makes everything fair for dealers so the small guys can compete with the big-box stores, everyone has to sell a 59 re-issue for $700 - but not great for the consumer though.
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From: Silverback
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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Back in 1969 when I was making 190.00 every two weeks as a young police officer a bow costing 50.00 was out of the question.
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From: GLF
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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We always had a suggested retail price. But we weren't held to it. We could and did discount a lot from that price. It depended on where you lived. Some areas had no competition and not many customers. I'm sure they sold higher. But we had a lot of competition and we sold a ton of bows so a suggested retail of 339 sole for 249 or there abouts. We made it up on small stuff.
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From: gluetrap
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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the supermag cost more than the kmag. what has changed?
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From: GLF
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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Back then I believe the super mag was phenolic. Plus it was relatively new as compared to the k mag.
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From: Tim Finley
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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In 1973 I worked for 3 days hauling hay bales for my uncle in the hottest weather I have ever seen in ND, so I could buy a Kodiak Hunter in the new green color.
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From: Leathercutter
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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When I went into the USMC in 1959 (Some of you can remember then)I made $72.00 a month. Sure glad I had one from my paper route/ grass cutting days. I still shot though. Then, as now "If you want to play , you have to pay" .
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From: Osr144
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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I don't begrudge paying for a bow as you need a reliable good shooting bow.The fancy ones don't really shoot any better.Yeah the fancy ones look great but if you don't have the money than a plane Jane model will get you shooting.Now when it comes to feeding your bow I win.Since I was a kid I made arrow shafts and cut and ground feathers and used self knocks.Eƻarly in the piece I realised that you didn't even need to buy lumber as there was lots of free wood for the taking from demolition sites.I only bought glue and arrow heads sometimes .Arrow finishes were whatever I had at hand.You can probably do archery on the cheap now days and maybe cheaper too.You can get real bargains of the bay even if it's an older 60 's or 70 's model.Just stay away from the prominent big brands aind Those $50 specials will serve you well.You see before compounds bows held their value more and second hand bows were not much cheaper than new ones.The best time to buy second hand bows is now past as it was when the compound boom took off.Since trad became popular again the more recognised brands of the past are sought after and command fairly high prices now days.
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From: Scooby-doo
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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GLF has it right. 20% off of suggested retail was about what most sold for back in the day. Even today if you look at suggested retail prices 20% off is still pretty standard for a lot of item. I can remember paying 99 censt for a box of 4/10 shells in 1971, same box now 15 bucks. I also know my Dad only took home 100 bucks a week then and he made good money. I live in the same house I grew up in and it was built in 1971 by my family for 8 grand. The powers that are today have it accessed at close to 300 hundred thousand. I still believe as far as hunting and shooting bows, the good old days are now!! Scooby
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From: Kwikdraw
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Date: 16-Jan-17 |
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In 1967 I bought a new Red Wing Hunter for $ 46.00, and a month later a new Camaro, 275hp 327 - 4speed for $ 2367.00. Still got the bow, wish I still had the car! But today, a new Bear K-mag is around $ 459.00 and a comparable new Camaro is around $ 35,000.00! The bow is 10x higher today, the car is 15x higher today! Bows last 50+ years well used w/ minimal if any, upkeep, Camaro will last, maybe 20 years well used, w/ lots of interim maintenance and repair costs! Bows are a much, much better value than cars!
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From: Salvador 06
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Date: 17-Jan-17 |
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K Cummings said it best, inflation happens but not at the rate of the bow prices. Bow prices are over inflated.
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From: shade mt
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Date: 17-Jan-17 |
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I paid, 45.00 dollars For a 45# Ben pearson when I was 12 yrs old.
As far as being comparable in cost? not sure but I do know I worked on a neighboring farm that summer 60 hrs a week for 1.00 per hr.
Later I paid 60.00 for a 50# Bear grizzly when I was 15 . And I had started carrying block and mixing mortar for a mason for 4.25 per hr and 50-60 hrs per week. And there was no overtime pay.
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From: Babbling Bob
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Date: 17-Jan-17 |
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Bowlim, my 1960 K Special has those real super skinny early black widow type limbs and my 1959 K Special, which is similar, has fat limbs like all my other Bears. But that '60 shoots like something special and spits'em out hard and fast, especially for a bow of its era. Even better than a '62, 63-inch K Special I own also with those typical '62 fat Bear limbs. Always wondered if they made all of the '60 K Specials with such skinny limbs or its a little different.
But to get back on the thread, it was a bargin to me and bet it cost less than $65 new. That's when my family could buy five footlong chili dogs for one dollar. No way would I buy a new custom to replace it. It's more than a K Special - It's real special.
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From: Babbling Bob
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Date: 17-Jan-17 |
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A thought about those old bows vs customs. Saw a an awful lot of my work friends in agriculture at a university shoot old Bear, Wing, Damon Howatt, and Browning bows and one a had self bow after attending OJAM once, which was held just south of town. Two said their relatives, like sons etc, hunted with old recurves. None would show up at a 3-D or be on this forum, or buy a custom, but they loved those inexpensive old recurve bows. Those bows were affordable to them for deer hunting and a lot of fun too. Some just loved their old bows. None of the those folks liked the wheelie bows, usually just the younger students. Nor did they talk about arrow FOC and penetration even though they were by nature folks who were curious about science itself because they were researchers by trade. That means there are a huge number of untapped recurve/ selfbow/longbow shooters with field experience who are not on this or any other forum. I'm sure they would laugh at the word Trad. Those old bows, not new custom bows, really serve a purpose.
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From: unhinged
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Date: 17-Jan-17 |
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I made my own bow in High school woodshop in 1973. Don't remember how much it cost me, but I know it was much cheaper than buying one, which was unaffordable for me at 16yrs. old.
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From: Red Beastmaster
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Date: 17-Jan-17 |
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Ahh, the family budget. Ever wonder how much fun we could have had if we stayed single? :)
I remember the day I had $25 in my wallet and had to make a decision. Do I go skiing or buy a case of baby formula? Crap! That was 1983 and I never skied again.
As we raised a family and struggled to pay for a modest house and used cars I was still able to get into archery. I saved and scrounged to buy my Martin Hunter and arrows. Later, I sold guns to buy bows. Flash forward.........I still sell a bow, tree stands, etc to help fund the next bow.
All things being equal, our toys cost about what they always did and it still bites when you crack open the wallet.
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From: Elkpacker1
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Date: 17-Jan-17 |
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My first bighorn and then blacktail were $350. at was new
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From: tagalong2
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Date: 17-Jan-17 |
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My Martin cost me 60.00 30 years ago and I still hunt with it today. My last bow is a hickory self bow that is still breaking me in. I'll be using it next season to try to put some meat on the table.
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From: Jeff Durnell
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Date: 17-Jan-17 |
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Ah yes, production bows, and a consumer's woes... yet bows have been free since there have been trees.
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From: Dkincaid
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Date: 17-Jan-17 |
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I'm learning that Jeff. I just wish I had more access to wood. I'm finding it hard to get staves or access to cut some.
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From: Ollie
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Date: 17-Jan-17 |
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Those who make the example of Bear Archery charging more than you think inflation should permit have forgotten that the company was shut down and had to be restarted. There are costs to doing that. You also are going to price your product based on what competitors are charging for a similar product.
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From: GLF
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Date: 17-Jan-17 |
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Some of us don't have the workworking skills to build our own. I built a yew self bow back in the early 80's and had Don Adams kinda talking me thru it along with Saxton Popes book. It shot great.... for a few months. Then got a fret. Dunno if it was too short for an English style longbow at my draw or what. But never tried it again.
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From: KyPhil
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Date: 17-Jan-17 |
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You can build a good selfbow in half a day using a hickory saw mill slab, band saw or jig saw, and a belt sander.
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From: Jeff Durnell
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Date: 17-Jan-17 |
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GLF, you should try again. 'Woodworking' is for static things like end tables. To make a good bow, you need only sidestep 70% of that, and ingest 30% more :^)
I didn't have good woodworking skills when I started this.... still don't by most standards. It's more about will, whether you're a DIY'er, and attention to detail. If you ever want to give it another go, I'll do what I can to help.
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From: GLF
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Date: 17-Jan-17 |
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I appreciate it. Come spring I might give it another try. I did like it while it lasted.
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From: Jeff Durnell
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Date: 17-Jan-17 |
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Cool, it seems it may suit you.
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