Talked to a long time bow making buddy just yesterday and he was mentioning that he was was getting some streaky Gordons Glass. Anyone else been having issues?

I was told by one bowyer that some times you don't see streaking until the bow is glued-up. It's not always noticeable in the glass alone.

I have a few bows with it and picked them up cheap because of it. I thought they got it under control though.

The last few bows I made had horrible streaks. George is correct very hard to see until bow is glued up. From this point on I'll be spending the extra money and buying my glass from Jim at old master crafters. He offers crystal clear glass guaranteed not to have any streaks.

Total amount of Gordon's glass used by all bowyers is, I've been told, is less than 1% of their total production. And their production warranty covers only structural properties not aesthetics. So bowyers cannot return if and when they find the streaks in the clear glass.

As Mr. Stout points out the streaks are hard/impossible to see in the raw glass since it comes with a protective tape on the smooth or finished side. This opaque tape stays on until the last sanding before applying the finish. So the bowyer does not know until most of the work has been done.

These streaks are most noticeable with clear glass over dark veneers. So think about lighter colored veneers like maple or bamboo. Streaks are much harder to see. I've gone to colored glass partly for nostalgia but mostly to get away from streaks. Or buy used bows you can inspect.

It happens from time to time, and has for years.

And, as George mentioned, many times you can't see it until the glue hits it.

The light colors especially

None of the glass I've bought came with tape on it. I tape it before glue up to protect it, however.

I'll add that streaks can be detected by laying them out on a dark wet surface.

OMC, has some nice clear glass. Called Crystal clear, triple checked, some how. I've had great luck with it on dark woods,so far. I believe it's Gordon. I have some other clear glass I got from another bowyer supply out west not good. You can see those streaks before glue up. They will get used in experimental bows for me only. Or like in the old days they might get painted. I've never had any new glass with protective tape on it. That would raise a flag. JF

Wow what's a custom bowyer going to do when he gets his bow ready for a customer and realizes he has to start over?

He will stop using clear glass,that will hurt him. Where ever OMC got hi glass,I hope he gets more. $!## I shouldn't have told everyone about it :) JF

Over the last 60+ years there have been various types of chemicals that glass fibers are treated with to get them to wet out properly with resin.

Not all those treatments are created equal to begin with and it is VERY difficult to see if the glass is thoroughly saturated (and therefore won't contain dry streaks) until it is wetted out.

If that happens inside a bow press then I would think you have nearly no hope of figuring it out- sometimes until you finish the bow even.

Has happened to me on a few occassions with surfboards (which are MUCH easier to guard against this problem with) and there isn't a thing you can do about it unfortunately.

Probably why glass manufacturers won't guarantee against it.

I think Belcher is simply checking all of his Gordon's glass and selling the stuff that checks out as the "crystal clear". Think I will go for the crystal clear or do colored glass. Belcher does have a good selection of colors.

There was a huge problem with crappy clear glass about a year ago. Had to throw away several recurve limbs due to it.Very frustrating! I can vouch for Jim's crystal clear though.At least now I know I will get a bow from it, especially being over in Australia where it is financially impossible to return the crappy stuff.

Whoever sells this stuff should be alerting their customers of the possibilities of streaky glass. Or at the least let them know how to inspect for it. Sounds like Mr. Belcher has some good product.

I remember back in my bow making days 10-15 years ago, that there was some crappy stuff going around and people were buying from someplace in Canada. I got some from there and it was ok at the time. I guess there is some other stuff available out of Korea or some other Asian country. Can't remember what I was told. Heard that it wasn't that great either.

I suspect laying them out on a black 2X4 as mentioned by Longcruise might help detect the worst ones. Sounds good to me. I Wonder if there is some kind of light or something you can hold them up to?

Belcher sells both. Presumably he is culling out the obviously good stuff.

The tape excuse doesn't fly with me. None of the glass I bought has tape on it, and I would peel it off if it did, then mask it. Small price to pay.

I never thought I would think it, but I am liking solid colors more than I did. The last few bows I have bought were coloured, and the next bow I am gluing up is black.

wetting the glass and placing it against a black strip does help a little. Coloured glass does have its own appeal indeed Made a few lately with dark grey and dark green and they look good. but when you want to show off some fancy veneers then obviously clear it is.

There ain't no tape on clear glass, if you don't know what your talking about don't add to the conversation. All the bows I've built with clear glass never ever came with tape.

I've seen colored glass that was streaky also so color isn't a safeguard.

Different manufacturers do different things and there is a lot of glass out there!

Here's the company I get surfboard glass from and they make most everything you could imagine. If you can think of it, I bet they have made it already.

http://www.hexcel.com/Products/Fabrics-Reinforcements/

Not sure what getting them to make straight laid limb glass would require (or cost) but it would be easy for them to do since they do things FAR more complicated.

But if you can't tell if it is streaky until it is glued up then it seems that there is a chance that it will have streaks in it when it is done. I sure wouldn't chance putting all that work into a bow for a customer then have to scrap it. And that will put an end to all the nice bows with clear glass I would think,

I buy my glass from Bingham's . Have never gotten bad glass from them. Where do you get the green glass ?

Unless things have changed, Bingham's gets their glass from Gordons. I've been to Gordons plant many times over the years, from the old plant in California to their new one in Colorado. There have been problem batches of clear forever. It's nothing new. They are pulling many times more strands now as they try smaller and smaller diameter thread, but sometimes stuff happens and they get some funky stuff. Lot's of times it's from clumping of fibers as they are pulled through the resin. They always replaced glass for us, but we bought a lot of material from them. Gordons still makes the best glass for bows available, I think, and I tried material from every company that tried making it, even from Sweden.

on and off, sometimes I get clear glass that can't be any better, other times, I go to all the trouble of making some really nice veneers, glue it up, and end of with a gigantic turd sandwich.

(I HATE clear glass, streaky clear or otherwise, and nothing will every change my mind. But, I'll still use it, until I can't because I'm confined to a strait jacket)

Re the supplier from Utah, I got a shipment from them 'bout a year ago and it looked like cat scratched the clear from one end to the other. absolutely appalling stuff. Didn't need a dark background to see just how bad it was, it just hit you in the eyes. Don't know how that lot got through their quality control[?] I have been using it for pressure strips so I don't have to scrap it all.I am exceedingly wary now of clear, but at least the stuff from Blechers is good.

Contrary to what has been mentioned here, most of the streaks that can be seen with the naked eye when handling the glass disappear once glued up. The streaks are also not caused by handling. They are down inside the glass and don't affect the integrity of the bow it self. The visible scratches or streaks first visible are generally from the sanding of one side and disappear when wet or filled with glue. I have noticed that the streaking issues have dialed back considerably lately in the clear. The colored glass has always had streaks but I find it strange that few ever complained about it. I guess it has been the norm. There is only one other viable manufacturer of clear glass available to us and they have been claiming clear glass for years but I have yet been able to verify it. BigJim

It helps if one holds it up to the light before your use it. If it's got irregularities in it you'll usually be able to see it.

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