To all Vintage Bear GuRus: What is thoughts on putting a new FF/skinny string on a vintage bear SK? I typically go 12-14 strands of string and pad the loop with B-50. ~Wojo

Some will say it's OK, and some will say to not risk it. It's your bow, so you must decide. Padding the loops is a must in my opinion. I have roughly 25 vintage Bears. I use only B55 on them. Speeds are fine. I do not chrono them. B55 is quiet for my needs.

I agree with Bud,,its up to you i personaly dont see the minor speed advantage a big plus over possible wear and tare But if i was gona run a fast flight string for whatever reason id pad the loops IMHO,,cant hurt Just run B50-55 12 or 14 stands and never have to think bout it

An increase in speed is not the only advantage to a low stretch skinny string. It also eliminates vibration after the shot and to me the bow just feels better. I would pad with the same material that the string is made of.

Sailor said.."An increase in speed is not the only advantage to a low stretch skinny string. It also eliminates vibration after the shot and to me the bow just feels better. I would pad with the same material that the string is made of."

And I totally agree with everything he said. I also think they are better for the bow since they don't have that continued vibration through the shot. The energy is put into the arrow rather than partly in the arrow and partly into the limbs and riser via vibration. I use 10 strand Rhino with 18 strands of same in the loops. I'm told the new Fury is great material as well for skinny strings. Remember that low stretch is about 3 times stronger than B-50 per strand, so you don't need overbuilt strings.

If you are happy with B-50 or B-55, then there is no reason for you to change.

We use 12 strand of Force 10. We usually pad it with b50. Never tried it with same material as string... Should I try 12 strand then pad it with 20 strands same materials? ~Wojo

W-

Most of the older Bears with the glass or phenolic tip overlays were so over-built that it might be fine.

Would I use FF on any of my vintage bows? NO. Just not worth the risk.

Viper out.

Ive used low stretch on my 2 vintage Bear Grizzlies for 4 years now. Even had a dry fire on one of the Grizz. Ive tried different low stretch string materials but I think different bows like different string materials. So far, for me, BCYX with padded b50 loops have worked well. Ive never used FF strings for speed but as mentioned above for feel mostly. Ive had to try different FF strings though, some string material has had negative effect as far as sound and feel, depending on the bow.

""Would I use FF on any of my vintage bows? NO. Just not worth the risk.""

I respect everyone's choice so I respond if asked. I thought it over quite a while before I tried it because it didn't make sense to me that it could hurt those bows. My trials started about eight years ago I think. I used only the skinny version (10 strands or less) with padded loops. The bows I used them on have run the gamut of design from no limb tip overlays at all, to fairly bulky overlays like a few of the old Sanders and Root bows.

My own "experience" with the low stretch tells me that it enhances the performance characteristics of the old bows, and does nothing to harm them. That extra performance is already in the bow design, the only think the new material does is allow for it to get to the arrow better via less vibration. I pad the loops to both fill the string notch, and make a bigger loop body that can't seek out a small crack in the fiberglass. I also work all the string notch area in any old bow before I use it. I've done that since I started. It's always wise to make sure any string, Dacron or low stretch, isn't rubbing against an uneven lamination edge, or sharp fiberglass edge where glass meets wood.

I've had zero breakage on any of the old recurves. I did have an old laminated longbow break in the riser, but can't really say it was the string material that caused it since it was literally a crack in the riser...one piece maple. I am plenty confident now, after thousands of arrows through many old bows, that the low stretch is fine if you want to use it.

Again...it's your choice and Dacron has served well for decades so use what makes you comfortable and happy. I'll use the low stretch myself for many reasons, including better performance but mostly a better behaved bow on the shot and lack of vibration.

I have a Bear Kodiak, I think it was built in the early 1990's. It has laminated wood overlays on the limb tips. Is this Fast Flight compatible? Thanks! Dean

Well, what the heck will happen to a bow if you use low stretch? Blow up? Delaminate? -wojo

George- specifically, have you EVER dry-fired any of your vintage bows with Low stretch strings?

Full disclosure: I have (by accident! Yes, I've been sloppy & careless now & then over the past 29 years!)

One old semi-recurve Bear Cub, (one of my first bows, only sold it last year). No tip overlays, dry-fired any number of times- it was a training bow- including long draw dry-fires with thumb ring, mis- fires trying a mechanical release, lent the bow out to a "Bow camp" for kids for a few seasons. 48#@28", no destructo.

Dry fired a 70# Mamba once, my aftermarket limb tip overlays may have helped- no damage! Even dry-fired my 75# DH Hunter, no damsage, but Dacron string- but no limb tip overlay either, except the thin decorative one.

BUT- I DID destroy my old X-200 with a FF dryfire. And it had the two layer phenolic limb tip overlay. String did not cut through, or "seek a small crack" it broke through everything, more like breaking a cinder bloke with a bare hand, Karate style. Never saw anything like that, before or since.

Dan, I haven't dry fired a bow in over thirty years. I really can't tell you the last time since I don't know. So I don't consider dry fires as part of my routine. I have decided lately not to go out of my way to have someone try it just because I think it's okay. Way too many folks just looking for something to blame as a matter of fact so I give them my experience and they can decide.

Lots of guys here are using low stretch strings on old bows. They just don't advertise it widely but there are quite a few right here on the Leatherwall. If people are afraid to try something, they really never will discover much...especially when it comes to things that really have never been tested significantly. I do what I do because it works and I have conficence in it. If you can't have confidence in what you're doing, then just don't do it. I've never been one to totally buy into something just because someone said it wouldn't work.

So do you think your X-200 would not have blown up if you had a Dacron string on it? My guess is, you don't know that for sure. Dry firing bows is never a good idea so I'll refrain from that. I may blow up one of my bows tomorrow, you never know. But if I do, I'm not going to say that it was the string that was the culprit. Eight years of using them would preclude that assumption alone.

I think if a bow fails it's because there is already a flaw in the bow. There's really no proof FF does any damage. But, there's lots of folks been using FF for a while on old bows..including myself.

My personal opinion is, bow makers started stating "FF compatible", just to cover themselvesn, adding tip overlays thinkin to supposedly lessen failure.

No dry fire in over 30 years! You're a better man/archer than me that's for sure. Even so, I've only had that one destructo experience with the X-200, and all my other bows -esp. that humble old Bear Cub- seem to be bullet proof, whatever the string material.

For now,I have dacron on only two bows, the 75#@28" DH Hunter and an old static tip Grizzly that shows some ominous signs of surface splintering de-lam on the back. Old paraglass. All the others have some different low stretch strings- including some masterpieces from Rick Barbee

I also don't tell anyone what strings to use. I directed one of my Sunday archery buddies to this thread, he just got a beaut of a Kodiak Special, 1956 or so, and he may stick with Dacron. Shoots great in any case.

"So do you think your X-200 would not have blown up if you had a Dacron string on it?"

If I could have one trivial wish come true, it would be for the chance to shoot (DRY FIRE SHOOT) that bow again with a Dacron string.

That Henry Bodnick video where he dry-fires one of his 30 year warranty bows over & over- I assume that is low-stretch string?

w -

Do an google search of FF strings and some vintage bows. Particularly Hoyt PMs, that used a bidirectional limb taper and wood overlays.

The FF string could actually cut into the limbs.

I've stopped padding loops decades ago, and at the distances I shoot my vintage bows, there's just no significant advantage to FF string. In fact, on the indoor 20 yard courses, seeing a difference between B-50 and D97 is pretty hard to tell even on a modern Olympic bow, until you start (bare shaft) tuning. I will add that in a lot of cases, the B-50 will be easier to quiet down.

Viper out.

I have had some recurves that didnt like anything but B50, but most of the time BCYX has worked great. Nothin wrong with B50

I have BCY-X on some bows and strings by Ten-Ring (made from Fury) on a bunch of others.

21 strands of BCY-X and fewer of Fury as it is not as fine. They don't look much different than B-50 except a little thinner.

I have low stretch on everything, including a 1956 Root Gamemaster, '68 Bear Supermag, 1961 and 1976 K Mags, a 1964 Howatt Hunter, a 1967 Wing Thunderbird and a 1972 Browning Explorer. That's just a few.

Hundreds of shots...no problems. Not expecting any either as I feel it is easier on the bows due to less vibration. Vibration is never good on any device so feel if it eliminated then all is well.

Like George, I am totally anal about checking tip grooves for defects. Use a small cylinder of sandpaper to smooth grooves and then apply some Try-Oil.

I don't think it makes a difference.

What it comes down to is it's your bow and your decision whether to risk a classic or not. Will non stretch strings break a healthy bow, probably not for a lot of years. But who knows if a bow that has a glue or other defect not detectable to the eye that could hold to b50 for lifetime but not non stretch. No one does. Personally I use Dacron on everything. Not for the breakage factor but for the silence. Plus it's my opinion that B50's vibration's not anywhere near as hard on a bow as the sudden dryfire type stop of non stretch strings. 2 of my 3 Indian Deerslayers had ff and both broke at the fades. The third I sold and is still in use. I was told in 66-67 Indian had glue problems and that's probably what broke em. Just seemed funny to me that the only 2 that broke were the ff ones. That where I come up with the hidden problems that may not hold up to ff types. I'm not risking it or the extra noise for 4 fps.

We have a recurve in the shop that has a skinny string on it. It was cut about 5 inches down with the string 's cutting straight down from the string nocks. I do not know who or how it got that way. The string almost looks like it was a jigsaw blade As it cut straight down the limb Every device we use in life can have a hidden flaw waiting the opportunity to rain on our parades. Classic case'; pay your money take your chances

We have a recurve in the shop that has a skinny string on it. It was cut about 5 inches down with the string 's cutting straight down from the string nocks. I do not know who or how it got that way. The string almost looks like it was a jigsaw blade As it cut straight down the limb Every device we use in life can have a hidden flaw waiting the opportunity to rain on our parades. Classic case'; pay your money take your chances

GLF What is the "...sudden dry-fire type stop..." from low stretch?

I believe the dynamics of damage from a dry-fire has nothing to do with a sudden stop.

The string and limbs are subjected to an unanticipated rapid acceleration and greater than designed speed of an unloaded string with continuation of the string travel past neutral.

Larry Hatfield posted that heavy tips can destroy a bow as they cause the limbs to travel further than designed through the weight of the tips creating excess momentum. He related about a flight shooting event where an individual broke two self bows. Another individual volunteered to help and filed the limb tips down on the competitor's third bow. It shot without issue.

That is the same issue with a dry fire...tips travelling further than they were designed and straining the limbs.

I have done comparison testing on the same bows between Fury and B-50. The bows are consistently louder with more vibration in the riser with B-50. IMO vibration is harmful and noise is wasted energy.

I put a lot of stock on actual experience and mine have been nothing but good.

To each their own...

I am hunting right now with a 1960 Kodiak, a 1962 Kodiak Magnum and a 1967 1/2 Super Kodiak...the Kodiak has a string made with half b50 and half 8125g (search FastFat on here to learn about that venture)...the other two have strings made with BCY-X...my decisions about these bows do not come from conjecture, they come from experience

DDave

I think different people sometimes hear different pitches more than other people. All I know is by my hearing ff bows all got that nasty ff "thunk" and I have yet to see one ff bow quieter than my Dacron stringed bows. Heck at one OSTA shoot I had guys watching me shoot and commenting on how quiet my bow was and asking about strings. If a bow makes more than a swish of the string cutting air for me its too noisy.

I have them on most classic bows but with padded loops so it don't cut the tips.

If George says it isn't harmful, that's good enough for me. All of my bows except one, have low stretch strings. Using a 10 strand Bear Paw on my 70 Grizzly. Very quiet. seems like it may be a little quicker too.

I like the feel of a good FF string. Solid, quite, just done! I've been using BCY-X on all my bows except selfbows. Zero failures, zero issues other than a solid feel and quite bow. Maybe someday I'll have a blowout but I have them on a early 70's Wing PII, an 84 t/d with green tips , assorted Herters, Ben Pearson..... Zero failures! Maybe I'm lucky but 100% success is hard to argue!

Not argueing, just telling why I don't use em. What anyone else uses is their business. maybe one of these days I'll run into one of those quiet bows with non stretch. I've got d97 on 2 new bows right now, Just haven't gotten around to making new strings for em.

arrowchucker. Why wouldn't you use or can't you use FF on self bows.

Don't use FF on my old SK's.

I've been using padded loop 12-strand D-97 on my '70s era Bear TD limbs for about a half dozen years now with no ill effects. Additional performance and more solid feel at the shot, i.e, less limb vibration at the conclusion of the shot. To each his own, but I'm not going back to dacron.

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