I have received a number of inquiries about Chinese made bows and arrows on the US market. I have to admit I know little to nothing about these items. Was told there are some 3p longbows and even carbon arrows available.

I was just wondering if anyone has had experience w/ this market. Are they any good? Pricing? Dealers? Etc.

Let me apologize in advance if this topic has been discussed before. Was just wondering. Thanks.

I see there is a lot for sale on e-bay never bought any though.

Beware of the Chinese dealers, I have dealt with them in the past and if anything goes wrong you have no recourse. They will run you around and promise this and that, but in the long run your stuck with what they sent you. I learned the hard way!!! Bob

no chance in hell I would risk giving money to BS china,

I will not knowingly buy anything made in china, period. Giving hard earned US dollars to a country that has been handed so many of our jobs and industries, is wrong. But that's how I feel.

There is a big difference in dealing through say apple to get chinese goods, or direct, KPC.

My experience direct has actually been pretty good, but the key for years when you wanted American grade goods was an American over they vetting everything. I have a friend who is over there regularly and does that, and his stories of what they try to slip by are interesting. They don't seem to be crooks necessarily, but if nothing else they substitute parts not taking into consideration the havoc that will cause pretty ignorant welders over here (becaue here anyone can afford one and learn to use it, over there someone with a welder is likely at least in a trade), and they are in the country were replacement parts are made.

Dealing direct with the Chinese they seem very anxious to please. One time I ordered two different drawing curves, about 2 feet long, along with some other stuff. When they arrived they had sent me two that were the same, so I contacted them. Initially there was a little push back, but when they realized I wasn't asking that they replace all the items, and I sent them a photo of the two identical curves they did back flips to get me the missing curve.

Basically if you deal through Pay Pal, you are a client with a bank that has to authorize payment to the seller. If you balk at how the deal turned out, from PP's perspective you are putting in play their relationship with the banks. Not to mention that even though a lot of buyers are crooks also, the tendency is to assume more of the weight is on the commercial end of the transaction. If you talk to ma and pa Ebayers, a lot of them have dropped out because Ebay is so one sided for buyer. Well we are buyers from the Chinese, mostly not sellers, so we have that going for us from a consumer perspective. So basically you are pretty well protected.

My problem with ebay for archery gear is 3 fold:

1) I enjoy Traditional Archery and part of that is the stuff is made in NA. I like that old timie fell that has. I buy lots of stuff from china, particularly given how bad the US is comparatively in selling to Canada, but I guess I would rather marry my high school sweetheart in this case, than get a mail order bride from china, kind of deal.

2) For the most part they don't sell the stuff I want, if it was FITA archery 1 and 2 would be different.

3) On traditional archery goods the deals aren't there. I got a ton of chisels from China they were good quality steel, hand forged, and about 2 bucks each. The Japanese ones can be as high as 500 each. I think the Chinese will own the broadhead game pretty soon, but I don't see what I want yet. But in archery a lot of times I see like a 20% discount. So say a custom bow is 450; a Korean is 300; a a second hand mint custom is 220. A USA guy selling the chinese bow is 200, and on ebay the chinese bow direct is like 149-179. The price break just isn't motivating when: You don't know he is the real deal, maybe it is an incompetent copy, and what if there is a problem about the sale. In Canada you might go direct, because the small risk is worth the fact that the postage from China is free, while from the US it might be 50% of the sale. At least you have to educate most sellers.

The longer term problem is once the market is owned, the prices will go up to the point where we are not really getting the stuff for cheaper.

One thing though, in other areas, if you go to trade shows you will see tons of good for sale that are being sold by previously honest makers over here who still claim to be "Made in USA" businesses. Some of this is lying, and some of this is content rule related. Like an American maker of a 154cm knife could be getting the steel from Japan. That is the key component, but it will not be that much of the final price. Given how low China can sell you can have stuff built there, and do some packaging here and it will slide under content rules if there even are any.

"Giving hard earned US dollars to a country that has been handed so many of our jobs and industries, is wrong. But that's how I feel."

As I said, I like living trad archery in the 70s, US made. It's sorta like being a 60s car nut, would it feel the same if you had a fiberglass repro of a US car, but imported from China. KPC will jump in to tell us it is just good business. And he is onto something. In Japan you can rent grandparents for special Holidays, and I say if it is cheaper than busing the real one's in, it's just good business.

But seriously, our part of the lost jobs deal is the low prices.

If ur gonna buy Chinese or Korean to save some money get the stuff from an American importer like Lancaster Archery.

Did buy some Chinese arrows...alleged to be cedar but they were some sort of ramen-like stuff.

They're actually consistent and good plinkers but I won't buy more. No telling what another order will bring.

I reliably make relationships and trust people on the phone so I won't be buying no-phone again from the Big Auction site.

I thought long and hard about approaching this subject on this forum. I knew there was a chance for this type of discussion given the ones I've seen in the past. Its OK that we have our opinions, however that is not what I was asking. I am still left w/out the information I'm seeking.

Is there a reputable dealer in the US that imports from China? Has anyone dealt w/ a particular Chinese bowyer? If you had a bad deal what was it? That sort of thing. Thank you to those who understood the questions.

I admit to doing business w/ Lancaster and most of us who have been at this sport very long have made friends w/ the folks that build most of our products. But I still have those who need entry level supplies due to finances and when they ask about those products, I would like to give them an informed answer.

Hi,

Almost all big companies have plants/factories in China. Stihl used to stand for "made in Germany" chain saws - now the parts are made in their Chinese factory. You take a hard look at your "made in USA" car or truck and you will find tons of parts not made in the US.

You expect the savings being handed down to you - think again. It lines the pockets of global players.

I have bought a lot of stuff through ebay that was made and sold out of China - I pay with PayPal and have not had one problem except the date of arrival of the shipment. Can take a week or up to 6 weeks. So, if you´re in a hurry to get your hands on the merchandise - buying from China may not be the best route to go.

shoot straight - skookum bow

Importers? Cabelas, Bass Pro, Target, Walmart, Kohls, and every other single entity. Also, 3Rivers, Kustom King, Lancaster, Twigg Archery, and I suppose most others including Bear Archery and Martin Archery. Other things made in China include: Double Bull blinds, Thermacell, Sitka Gear, and 80% of the camo clothes sold at Cabelas, Bass Pro...and the others mentioned above. Toyota trucks are made in the USA but the profits after costs go to Japan. There is little that we buy that can be totally attributed to USA owned, manufactured and distributed solely in the country.

And add to that, that over 50% of our auto sales goes to China, which keeps a lot of Americans...in good jobs working. Most of those bows are made with Gordon Glass, and American laminations as well. You should likely do some research to see how much those Chinese bows...and Korean also help our own economy from the get-go. And then, if you really want to get more manufacturing back here in the US, call your legislators and demand the corporate income tax be lowered to bring home the money already stashed overseas in lower tax countries....some 2 trillion dollars as a matter of fact, most of that by tech companies like Apple, Microsoft, Oracle, etc. Ours is 39%...third highest in the world. The average is 28%, so we punish companies to to business over here.

One of my friends bought wood and fiberglass arrows from Chinese suppliers on Ebay. I got a good chance to see what he got and here is the report:

-The wood arrows were ramin, not cedar. Still a good arrow wood but they do misrepresent the product.

-The fiberglass arrows where of the thick tubular fiberglass type, like tentpoles. More like the kids arrows than the nice fiberglass from the 60's.

Both arrows shot decent, but they're better suited for heavier bows, 50# plus. I don't think they have a clear concept of spine and they just put whatever spine you want.

I've bought plenty of other non archery related stuff from these guys, they have always come through with the product and have never been ripped off. Always with paypal.

IMO George's politics are swell for government employees, corporate giants and the politicians they own...

...but if you are (heaven forbid) a self employed capitalist, or part of a small team, or someone like Steven Jobs before Apple turned Chinese....those politics cut the wrong way.

Don't accept easy answers.

Tkyelp: In your original post you said nothing about Chinese goods FROM US DEALERS!!! Bob

Nope Bob you are correct. That was brought up later in one of the discussions/replies. A good piece of information too. Thanks for pointing that out.

Dont ask dont tell policies! They trash there environment ,children making your things = big money for the guys at the top. Hey if your cool with it? We do share the same world. The stuff going on south of our border is just as bad. My current employer makes a ton off the backs of those people.

The greatree recurves that Andover archery sells are very good shooters and durable. I got my wife one for her bday and she likes it. A coworker bought one and he likes it. I did have a greater longbow that was a good shooter til it delaminated, and Andover archery sent me a new one with just emailing them a picture. The second one delaminated and Andover gave me a refund. So if you're dealing with a us dealer I'd say your ok. If you're dealing direct with china, you are taking a serious gamble that will probably NOT pay off.

Justin Ma, who sells Cinnebar Bows lives in California, works at Google, and is a very respected dealer. He goes to China and works closely with the bowyer. I have shot the bows he markets at the World Flights and can say he sells very good bows. Should mention that he is also a very good friend of mine.

X2 Larry Hatfield! "Cinnebar Bows" is the creation & products of a single man, a self-employed bowyer (no different in that respect than any of our American custom one-man enterprises).

He has a name- Gui Shunxing, but for us Mandarin deficient speakers his name is translated as "Mariner". He builds- one at a time- reproduction bows of the Han, Ming,Manchu, and other historic periods of Chinese history. He has taken building lessons from our own Lukas Novotny.

Like Larry, I should mention that Mariner's agent, Justin Ma, is also a good friend of mine as well. We have taught Asian Archery classes & individuals together, and I got one of my Asian style bows from Mariner through Justin. Novotny of Saluki bows here in the USA made my other one.

These are not ebay junk. I don't know about that stuff, I only cruise ebay for old Kodiaks, Grizzlys, Polars, etc. Here's a pic of my Saluki Damascus & my Mariner "Ming 4" medium length Chinese composite replica.

The claim that every thing produced nowadays has a component made in China is false. That kind of "willfully ignorant" statement is usually made by someone who hasn't taken the time to find out if what they want is made By a American owned company, employing Americans that produce things using American sourced materials. These companies DO exist. You have to take the time to look for them. Instead of knuckling under and buying cheap labor products from communist China, make the effort to support your fellow Americans. The multi- national corporations crank out the "nothing is made in America anymore" hype in their 24 hour propaganda media machine. If you buy into it and it doesn't bother you that your money goes to a communist country that has child labor, forced labor, and so on, so be it. But that's your decision, not mine.

http://www.ibuyamericanstore.com/

Bear archery, Martin archery, PSE archery all sell bows made in China. PSE and Martin have the largest variety. G.fellow

Hi,

This is a bow forum, so let´s talk bows.

In China, bows have a very long tradition. They´ve been making and shooting bows for thousands of years over there. Probably before there were even people living on the North American continent. They made laminate bamboo bows when NA were still shooting primitive self bows. Howard Hill has patents on laminate bamboo bows - you just have to look at old US patents. These patents are just a little over a hundred years old - so you can imagine who copied whom.

You take a look at a small country like Korea. Bow shooting is a huge national sport over there - as can be seen by their absolute dominance in world tournaments like the Olympics (although nearly everybody that I´ve seen on TV, shoots Hoyt bows - even the Russians).

So with all their bow tradition, these Asian countries probably have forgotten more about bow making than we Westerners have ever known.

shoot straight - skookum bow

Why would anybody ever buy a China made anything on purpose let alone a bow. This topic should be closed....lol

manufacturing has been driven overseas from a combination of overhead(regulations,Unions,corporate greed)and plain old supply and demand-fodder for the Community Forum.My Chinese ebay riser is as nice as the Morrison I had.

America wrings its tied hands.

Wow!!

Im glad we didnt bring up made in Mexico bows : )

Funny how I hear the same argument in acoustic guitars.

I want quality: I'll buy American.

make american great again, buy american

Are there Mexican bows and arrows? LOL

Make your own self bow if you want a bow made in America. I made some arrows out of bamboo that came from China but put stone heads on them made by Ryan Gill so I guess it evens out. I'm not sure where the feathers came from.lol

Just face it the US is going to be knocked off its perch as the worlds largest economy and its going to be China doing it.Hey we may not like it but that's the reality of a world global economy.Mstyles comment is funny as he does benifit by Chinese made products be it directly or indirectly.How much work is farmed out to Chinese companies?I buy Chinese archery products and 99% of my dealings with Chinese companies is good as they will bend over backwards to do honest fair deals.They do make mistakes but do there very best to rectify problems.Yeah some of their products are trash and some Chinese are bogus .They are getting a lot better and can match US or European quality on some items and do it cheaper too.China's mimium wage is something like 60 cents an hour,South Africa about $5 an hour Australia $16 an hour and I don't know what it would be in the US .Wouldnt you think it is going to be awefully hard to compete with that in the future.You know lots of folk are buying Chinese archery equiptment.These very same folk as they progress do end up buying US manufactured products.If it was not for the cheap Chinese gear they probably wouldn't be shooting today.Australia never suffered as bad as the US did in the global finacial crisis as we could sell lots of coal and iron ore to China.Australians are not real keen on China either but we need them for our economic survival.You can't ignore China when it's one of your biggest trading partners and they are right on your door step. OSR

Glenn

I think the mexicans are responsible for all the new crossbows : o

Another reason I make my own. My Bowyer provides a 100% lifetime guarantee. And I am sure Mr K will tell me I am using Chinese components. Well, that may be true as 100% pure tung oil is a Chinese invention, and proven in ocean going ships for 2500 years....... On the other hand most Chinese manufacturing is predatory as a national policy, and their quality control is atrocious.

Chinese manufacturing quality has improved markedly in the last decade. Dang near every tool I buy is made there. The tools and gear etc. that I buy are very well made, in general. The steel quality is spotty and quality of part can be very good to total crap dependent on what the parts are made for. Chinese nails and screws in general are total crap in comparison to US stekll mill products.

As far as Chinese manufacturing goes, it is a free for all just as in the U.S., and low bidders get the work, just as in U.S. Everything worldwide is built to a price point. Keep that in mind. Chinese have no environmental and 'worker' laws like we have here, and that is partly why they are busy and industrious.

You older guys like me will probably remember the days back in the early 1960s when Jap products were considered crap, in general. And they were, in comparison to today-by a long shot.

Off topic. I have said this more than once, WWII is to my way of thinking the HUGE dividing line in mass production. We certainly led the way and there was no stopping the might of the U.S. industry when it is do or die conditions.

But it is a different world now, double the worldwide population since 1940s. All of whom need to work, so the job climate is VERY competitive. That's just the way it is in the global economy.

Well, I try to stay away from chinese junk as much as possible, but I spent a couple of hours yesterday tearing apart, and reworking a BRAND NEW ratcheting tap handle, proudly stamped "made in CHINA" that I was given. It wouldn't ratchet in either direction right out of the box. I did what I could, cut my hand on its unfinished edge in the process, and it now ratchets in one direction. I can't get it to work the other way because they machined it wrong and I can't put steel back that they've ground away... well, I guess I could build it up with weld, and then try to rework it back down with hand tools, but I'm not gonna. I shouldn't haffta. Junk. New worthless junk.

There are reasons to buy American when you can and reasons to buy because you need a certain tool or product. Hopefully one can do that without being swayed by the race thing. Columbia Sportswear, Nike, and other clothing manufacturers have factories in Cambodia, Thailand, China, etc.. In Cambodia, they have shot protesters for asking for more than 70 dollars U.S. per month. I don't buy those brands of clothing because of knowing that, not because the shirt etc. is made by a Chinese, Japanese, Khmer or Thai person.

Justin Ma, of Cinnabar bows doing what he enjoys, teaching. 2016 Fall semester, 2nd Traditional Asian Archery Program (TAAP) in UC Berkeley

Larry, are you suggesting that the American companies did the shooting.

"LOL"

I think everyone should look at the experience of Lone Wolf treestands when then outsourced to china, and what has happened since. I hear of select US custom bowyers who are selling bows to china. I wager a very large sum of money those bows will be copied in detail, and marketed back in the US at unsustainable prices (for continued US production). Over and over the Chinese have stolen our designs, drove our manufactorers out of business, then increased prices significantly once they had complete control of the market (See computers and sub compenents) . Right now we have a healthy cottage industry in traditional archery. I see a great threat of this disappearing in my lifetime with the Chinese major move in this arena. I for one will spend my $$ very carefully. I gladly pay what most consider WAY too much money for a Randal made knife. But refuse to spend $5 on chinese knives. That is my choice, I want that artisan who lives in Florida to get my $$. I buy USA made Danner boots and pay upwards of $300 to get them. They last 10 years and feel great, while an $80 chinese pair lasts 6 months and damage my feet. My choice. I seriously question the motivation of those on this site who defend the predatory practices of some countries, especially those from states whose economy has been so severely damaged by same.

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