Just acquired a 1968 S/K.I was wondering about the use of fast flight strings on a bow this old.Thanks guys for your input.

Darn...I think i'm out of popcorn.

Blackhawk you can have some of mine. "lol"

And away we go...

I use a padded loop d97 on mine and have a few thousand shots through it. I'm on suggestting you do the same just sharing

I think you will find a lot here use modern strings, just as Fred would have used if it had been available. I used a 10 strand Ultracam on my 66 Kodiak I had last year. Don't know how many shots went through that by me but it was a lot. More and more folks are checking it out and finding it very satisfactory. It's all up to you though and how comfortable you are with all the stuff you will hear about it. I wouldn't hesitate to use modern material, but I would make sure the string notches are nice and smooth beforehand. That's all I do to prepare them.

Only if you want it to shoot to it's utmost potential. :)

I had 14 strand fast flight on my new Super Kodiak.Didn't like the noise it made. Tried 14 strand B-50. What a difference in noise level.A lot quieter. I couldn't visually see any speed difference. For a 50#er,it's fast and quiet with B-50.

My views on this subject are well known...let's just say I agree completely with Mr. Stout

DDave

I think the white tip overlays are good enough to take it-I just got a 68 SK refinished and plan on putting a low stretch string on it.BUT I have seen threads with pictures on other forums of broken vintage bows blamed on FF type strings so despite the opinion there are others who just dont post much that blame them for disasterous results- so fwiw.

On even dates, I argue for the advantages of low stretch (flite) material. (I've had it on perhaps 1/2 dozen vintage Super-Ks.) I use 9 strands of D-97, padded in the loops to 15 AND braided loops to make them even more fat. It adds some speed and power, is typically more quiet than B-50 and provides the archer with a touch of added confidence in the bow's performance.

On odd dates, I argue it makes no practical difference in the field...on the average of under 2 pounds of added kinetic energy vs. a well built dacron.

Rick

I agree with Rick fully. ;)

Here's the thing, on the same topic.

We hear all the time that low stretch strings cause bows to break. First, there are no strings that don't stretch to some degree. To verify that I contacted the manufacturers of the actual Dyneema and Spectra material to ask them.

According to the folks that make the material, the strands stretch on an average of 3.5% right after being manufactured. There is an additional percentage of stretch that is introduced as these materials are used to make a string.

For instance, a Flemish twist string, endless string, etc.. So they all stretch AT LEAST 3.5%. The manufacturers were unable to provide a percentage of stretch that would be induced during construction, because manufacturing methods are different.

Linen was the most popular material used on the ancient wooden bows, linen is very low stretch as well, and it didn't break those bows as far as I know.

This has lead me to believe that bows that break with low stretch material on them either have improperly made strings on them, or they have improperly made nocks to begin with.

Lower stretch material seems to me it would actually be less damaging to a bow, simply because it lessens limb "over travel" which is essentially the limbs bending the wrong way, after the arrow leaves the string.

Just my thoughts on the subject based on the information I have been able to obtain.

Does low-stretch strings damage old bows because they are low-stretch, or because low-stretch materials tend to be skinnier than dacron and therefore create a garotte effect, thereby slicing through the limb when under stress? If the latter, it would seem padded loops would be a simple solution.

I think you nailed it golden_trout.

And addressing the loop/notch area ahead of time as I mentioned. I do that to every single used bow I buy and shoot, before I string it. It doesn't matter to me what string I intend to use, I check the string notch area. On many occasions, certainly not all, I find anomalies; mostly it's an edge on one side that creates an asymmetrical issue. You may well be surprised at how many times you find those if your really check it out. Make that notch transition smooth and symmetrical, so the loop makes a nice teardrop shape when strung. That is really all I do and it's worked so far.

I agree with padded loops if your modern string material is much thinner than Dacron, and it usually is. Skinny strings, in my opinion, should always be padded to fill the notch area better. Endless loops likely don't matter since they are wrapped.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone had a string made from b-50 cause a limb to split?

I use a BCY-X 18 strand string padded to 24 on my '68 SK. Works just fine and is quieter than with the string that came on it.

Yeah Bill I have but after the tip overlay broke off without me knowing it during the shoot. I happened to notice my string had split down about 1/4" into the lams. I Took it home and replaced the overlay and glued the split and still have the bow. that happened in 1978 or 79.

Personally I wouldn't do it. I have seen older bows have FF string zip right down the limb when it hit brace height on release. Not worth it to me.

Depends on what you're after. You will probably have to go to a stiffer arrow, say from 500 to 400 spine. If your 500's are shooting 180 fps with dacron, you will probably shoot 190-192 with LS material. If you have to move up to a stiffer, heavier arrow, say 30 to 50 grain weight increase, you will be shooting about 180 fps with LS material. If you increase arrow weight by 50 to 80 grains, you will most likely shoot slower than the lighter arrow with dacron.

So, depending on arrow weight, there may be little or no increase in speed, but you will be shooting a heavier arrow. (You can discuss the merits of heavier and slower vs lighter and faster in some other post.) I personally would want a heavier arrow with LS simply to alleviate some of the shock on the limb, then you're back to the slow/heavy vs fast/light thing.

The down side is you will be using LS material on a bow not made for it. I know many are doing it with good results, but if the bow is special to you, think about the possibility of failure. Old bows are generally cheap and readily available, so if the extra speed or weight are important, go for it. If it fails, you simply replace the bow; at the worst you have a scar or one less eye to work with. Limb failure is not always the string ripping into the lams. Occasionally the limb literally blows up, sending shrapnel mostly toward the guy holding the string. While padding the loops and inspecting and reworking the grooves should take care of the string splitting the limb, there is no way to prepare the limb for the increased shock delivered by LS materials.

I have spoken to quite a few bowyers about LS vs dacron and all agree LS materials are harder on any bow than dacron, but most encourage the use of LS on their bows made for it.

I have never experienced the quirks many on LW attribute to the different materials. I have no problem quieting a bow with either dacron or LS. I have no problem with limb vibration or handshock or any other tuning ticks with LS or dacron. Once you have worked with the various materials and configurations, you learn what is necessary for tuning. I have LS ready bows on which I prefer dacron, but I absolutely will not use LS material on an older bow not made for it for 2 reasons: I respect the bow too much to risk failure because of the string I chose, and I don't want another scar under my left eye.

Dacron and LS materials feel and act differently when shooting, but if you can tune the bow you should be happy with either as far as noise, shock, vibration, etc.

George, unless you talked to Fred recently, don't put words in his mouth.

I replaced the white paper micarta limb tips on my '68 Super K with white phenolic and used FF plus on it for years. My brother has it now and still uses a FF string. The original tips could probably take it but you will have to re-shape the string grooves to be safe. I would also use a padded loop string on it.

David have you actually seen it happen or just the pictures afterwards? I'm just curious not insinuating anything. I have a b50 string do it on my Redwing hunter have never had ff do it.

WalnutBill:

I split the top limb on release on a Carroll's Gentleman Jim about 30 years ago with B-50

I bought a set of limbs from a good friend, top quality longbow limbs that he'd bought new and shot for just a few months. One limb snapped at 2/3 draw first time I drew them back. Stuff happens, I didn't blame it on string material.

I have seen the bows in person.

X2 Rocket Dog.

croookedstix had a B-50 string split a 1962 Howatt Monterey as described. Can happen with any string material. I have a Monterey I won't shoot again until I install overlays.

"The down side is you will be using LS material on a bow not made for it. I know many are doing it with good results, but if the bow is special to you, think about the possibility of failure. Old bows are generally cheap and readily available, so if the extra speed or weight are important, go for it. If it fails, you simply replace the bow; at the worst you have a scar or one less eye to work with. Limb failure is not always the string ripping into the lams. Occasionally the limb literally blows up, sending shrapnel mostly toward the guy holding the string. While padding the loops and inspecting and reworking the grooves should take care of the string splitting the limb, there is no way to prepare the limb for the increased shock delivered by LS materials."

KaPOW!

I do on some but I have a few favorites that I don't. And I've never had any troubles

doug77

I've only had problems with 2. Both of those delammed at the fades. But later I was told that in the years these bows were made that indian had glue problems. So I dunno if it was the ff, or bad glue, or just older type glue that wouldn't hold up to the shock of ff. With b50 the limbs go forward and at the end the string give a little allowing the limbs to stop with some cushion. With ff type theres no cushion, just a sudden stop. I use Dacron myself. I just don't wanna take the chance for a few fps and plus I hate that ff "thunk". People are using it for old bows with success it seems. At least for as long as they've done it so it's your bow. You decide whether to take a chance or not.

I would not want to use the new fast flight's on a vintage bow. Just my thought.

Well no one knows for sure what will happen in the long run, or with a bow with less than perfect glue lines but people are using it successfully. Bear has always had fiberglass overlays on the limbs so that would help or I would think it would. It comes down to no matter who tells you what, the bows urs. If the results are good its ur bow, but if they are bad it's ur bow that's gone. Not someone elses who told you to use it.

I want to add that 10 years before ff came out all Olympic style archers used Kevlar which is also non stretch. I never saw any problem with it on the mainly hoyts and yamahas used back then.

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