In your opinion, which broadhead shape contributes best to penetration. The straight angle edge like a Zwickey Delta, Ace Express, and Magnus MA 1. Convex like an Ace Standard, Bear greenie or Eclipse. Concave like a Tiger Shark or a HH head. I'm not talking the three to one single bevel. Just the other shapes. Thanks for the opinions.

Convex

Ace express are convex, not straight. When comparing penetration of shapes, the compared heads should be of the same width and bevel. Comparing a straight wide Delta with a smaller convex greenie.

I don't think for a second it matters.

6 in one/ 1/2 dozen the other. For the things I shoot at anyway. All my hunting is limited to deer and pigs, or the occasional cat.

Sharp is the biggest factor.

Straight edges. Concave and convex both present areas of higher resistance along their edges.

Woodshavins, Ace Express are definitely straight edge. The Standard, Super Express and Hi-Speed are convex. I was just being curious. No need to be upset.

Deltas have a little bit of concave shape. Not straight. MP

MP: Deltas have it until the edge is straightened with a file. Regardless, length and width probably have more effect on penetration than straight, concave or convex shape.

I agree, length and width ratio is very important.

I think that straight is the best overall shape, but convex that allows a section of nearly parallel blades on the trailing edge will add a slicing action that I think helps, and will not raise the drag, other than frictional. That said in design situations where there are two opposite options that both work, the best option is often to split the difference. In this case that amounts to a straight edge, which is also generally easier to sharpen.

I think we are talking 'enths of degrees...inches...millimeters, rather than which one will penetrate better. Like any unscientific guestimate, it's good fodder for talking, but that's about it. All of the heads mentioned likely have had pass through shots on even large animals, so to me, a sharp head...flying perfectly would trump any standard design difference.

There are ways to help make these determinations with physical examples, instead of a lot of talk,

BUT

I've noticed, most folks would much rather blindly argue about it, than to provide any real physical evidence to support their positions.

Rick

Wasn't trying to start any arguments. Just something I'd wondered about for a while. I realize there isn't going to be a great deal of difference. Like I said, just curious.

Best be careful there Rick. You are suggesting these internet gurus use facts rather than opinions. Always a dangerous thing.

Rick is suggesting someone use the Broadhead Penetration challenge he put together to prove recordable results instead of a debate

I agree that a razor sharp "true" flying arrow is the best.

With that said Ive seen three blades (woodsman) blow thru the meatiest part of the deer. My cousin hit a doe thru the hams. Cut a triangular hole thru the thick muscle. Little blood to trail ,but deer fell at the waters edge about 150 yds.

I was impressed with the pass thru. Ive never been able to sharpen a woodsman to my satisfaction. But they are impressive and seem not to plane at all.

I like my arrow to stay in the deer. All that running can mean a lot of cutting inside.

When I'm in doubt, I fall back on Ashby.

We can talk for days about our experiences or Ashby or even those stories of our friends.

I was shooting a 65# Adcock longbow at 31" and hit an elk at around twenty yards with a single bevel Grizzly. Stuck it right in the scapula bigger than crap. My Corps buddy had squeaked him in with some serious skill. The bull was no rookie.

The cedar shaft (not a light shaft)broke off right behind the broadhead the first bush or tree he went by. The 6x6 bull ran off slightly uphill. I could see the back of the broadhead sticking through the hide. Game over.

I don't care what you shoot. If you hit a big bone all bets are off. The further back in the rib cage you hit the bigger those ribs get as well. I have seen no proof that I can account for except, scapulas are tough and single blade broadheads can close up. (a couple of other experiences on that one as well)

So based on that I make my choice. All that marketing hype is garbage. All that testing is useless if you hit a heavy bone.

No matter what ya use they have to be sharp and if you can shave your arm then that's what you strive for. I used everyone you mentioned and have good success with them other years that collected many animals and birds.

Past couple years been using Tiger Sharks 175 grains and they have been like Tommy hawks. Little harder to sharpen but when they have been they really do the job. I use them on the aluminums and carbon arrows.

I haven't shot any on the woods yet into animals maybe I should this coming season depending on how I feel.LOL

I have a slew of Eclipse also to test out on animals. Best test is on the animals not targets I feel. I don't favor 3 blades rather use 2 blade even my Bear heads don't generally use the bleeder.

Very few animals have the quality of closed cell foam when it comes to resistance. As for "heavy bone"...there isn't a lot of that on a whitetail or other deer, which is the bulk of what most big game hunters hunt. Then we have the history of the sport, and the history of the heads that folks used to great efficiency. To overlook that aspect and defer to a foam test is okay I guess, but I'm thinking the best indicator of future performance, is past performance.

George, you are correct of course. No animal will ever equal the consistent resistance of foam.

It is however, a pretty sure bet, that whatever penetrates best in the foam, will also penetrate best in other mediums, including flesh & bone.

I submit, the primary reason most folks are reluctant to participate in such testing as I have suggested is, they are afraid of the results they may get, and might wind up having to eat crow on some things they have strongly touted for long periods of time.

Rick

"It is however, a pretty sure bet, that whatever penetrates best in the foam, will also penetrate best in other mediums, including flesh & bone."

True enough Rick. Bone gets tricky.

Rick, you'd probably get a passthrough with a snarro tip! You don't count in penetration tests!

The three most important factors for optimum penetration for an arrow into game, not counting shot placement are Arrow flight- the quicker an arrow leaves paradox and the better the spin the sweeter the flight leads to better penetration. Tune your arrows to the nth degree. Arrow weight- a hunting arrow should be at least 10 grains of weight for every pound of draw weight up to 50% heavier or 15 grains per pound of draw weight. That's very near the point of diminishing returns. Arrow mass imparts momentum to the broadhead pushing it through. Think of it this way which projectile would like to be hit with if it was going 100 mph a ping pong ball or a cue ball? Broadhead sharpness- I do not believe that anything can be too sharp. If the edge on your broadhead doesn't scare you, it's not sharp enough. The sharper the edge the easier it passes through tissue. Watch some of the knifebot videos an see how little effort it takes to cut something with a well sharpened edge. Broadhead configuration is far less important if these three criteria are met.

Keep in mind the Ashby findings had three criteria to fulfill for an ideal arrow: high F.O.C., arrow weight @ or above 650 grains, and of course the 3-1 single bevel broadhead. His updated findings also tout steel adapters for glue-ons and footing.

Quality arrow flight and the head being sharp go without saying.

Carry on.

Dead cow thread comes to mind for definitive rendering

I wish that I had worded the title differently. I was more curious as to which shape folks preferred.

[[[ tradmt: "I prefer straight. Simplest sharpening and isn't going to penetrate any less than a convex." ]]]

I tend to hold this opinion also.

Rick

They will all do the job if they are sharp and placed correctly with good arrow flight

DDave

If we were talking about longer instruments - swords - it seems a majority believe a convex blade cuts best. Over the 2" or so of a broadhead I doubt that anyone would notice a difference. I have used straight and convex with equally good results and have no preference as long as they fly true.

I cut off DirecTV a year ago and miss it NONE thanks to the Leatherwall :)

I know of two cases where a Deadhead caught a serious rib deflection on deer. I also was using Deadheads at the time, but ever since then I make certain that the angles are not too severe. Other than those two cases, I have never seen a Deadhead not come out the other side of a deer. Schulz Huntersheads, now there is one to stay away from, those things fly off to bloody arrow heaven every time they zip through a deer.

Just bought 6 Zwickey 'No Mercy' heads along with a X-Block sharpener today. I'm looking forward to this fall.

dean...that's funny. True, but funny. :}

"It is however, a pretty sure bet, that whatever penetrates best in the foam, will also penetrate best in other mediums, including flesh & bone."

I really doubt that. Air is a medium who would have guessed they needed dimples on golf balls, the world is pretty complex. (not to say dimples are penetration, but it just goes to show how odd little things can pile on. Shooting through a thicket is not that different from shooting through all the junk in a deer. People thought big bullets would be great, many still do, evidence is high spin lighter bullets are less deflected, though what happens when they hit is another mater I guess.

----------------------------------------------------

But a lot of people say they don't want to think beyond the well tuned arrow and the sharp edge. And if all you hit is flesh or lung tissue, you are going to get full penetration every time on the animals most of us hunt. The real issue isn't penetration in media, it is bones. Well at least with some decent power.

Last year a friend shot his 56# compound in a box of rags with a slick trick broad head. Time after time It did not go thru but would go thru with a wensel head every time. Also his his 45# thunder horn would go thru with the wensel head. I personal like the ace broad head but has killed a lot of deer with the wensel head. most broad heads well sharpened will do the job if it is put in the right place. incidentally that compound was very fast shooting around 260fps

OK, maybe a better media example is the old sandbag test the founders used to get us seasons in areas where there was skepticism about arrow efficiency. You would zip an arrow right through a sandbag, then show some gun unable to penetrate the same type bag.

If you have already registered, please

sign in now

For new registrations

Click Here