I bought a new to me Groves Flame Recurve. It's 62", 45#@28" and a sweet looking bow. It should arrive today.

Bill

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Anybody know anything about the Grove Flame recurves?

Bill

What do you want to know? There are a few of us on here who are Groves fans.

Groves-great bows

Flame was a less expensive than Spitfire. More conventional limb construction (not "Dynastressed"). Superb bow.

fdp, Bob, jk,

Thanks for the replies on the Flame. It's a sweet looking bow from what I can tell from the pics. Is the Flame a good shooting bow? I know it'll be a better shooter than what I'm shooting now. I sold my last recurve 4 or 5 months ago! :)

Bill

One question you might be able to answer for me is should I use only non-fastflight strings with the Flame?

Bill

Harold didn't like low stretch strings, however, I know people who do and have used them for a long time.

Those are excellent bows. They will shoot as well as any bow you can get your hands on. One note of caution about Harold's bows though. Those little tiny tips will cause you to twist a limb pretty quick if you aren't careful. When you make your strings don't make the loops overly big so they seat in the notches and stay.

That's a great shooter and a good looker. Don't use anything other than Dacron...no non-stretch, no fastflite. Ignore arguments to the contrary, do what Harold Groves wanted.

The main reason Harold said no-fastflite was that he didn't want to weigh the limb tips down with reinforcement. He also used maple, not actionwood, because it was lighter, therefore faster. I've seen Groves that were split from the notches by fastflite but I'm sure few did that, so if you want to gamble...

Frank's right about twisted limbs...same problem as some Bears...you can avoid that with a $10 bow stringer.

I NEVER string a bow, not even a longbow, without a bow stringer! Thanks for the info!

Bill

Wildman....the way those limbs are made, even with a stringer they can twist if the loops are too big. It's about how quick that last 6 inches of limb width tapers down. That's also what makes them shoot well.

fdp....Thanks! I'll measure the width of the last four inches of the top limb to determine the length of the loop for the upper limb and will make the bottom loop just big enough to slip over the tip on the bottom loop.

While I'm thinking about it, what's the recommended string length and brace height for the Flame?

WILDMAN? Bow GET THERE OK? Hope that It SHOOTS as good as it looks! Keep us in the loop! GETTUM GO! Batman

59" and start 8".

That's a gem Bill. Deserves the insurance of a Dacron string for sure. I had a Groves Spitfire years ago and felt it was a great bow. Enjoy it.

I love the way my Flame Hunter looks and shoots. Usually assemble my own arrows (aluminum or carbon shafts), but this bow asked for a set of David Ellenbogen's Cedar beauties and it deserved it!

Agree with fdp 2x - Groves bows take a little extra attention while stringing. Not every stringer will work, either, with the tiny tips. Mine likes a BH or 8-3/8".

Thanks for all the inputs. The bow hasn't arrived, yet. The last tracking update was that it arrived in NJ Saturday morning.

Bill

Don't use FF strings. Those little tips will blow up

Don't use FF strings. Those little tips will blow up

The string material is less likely to cause a problem than screwing up while stringing those bows. Bill has had enough bows in his day...so far...that he knows how to string and unstring a bow, so I expect he won't have any problems. No need for an overbuilt string for that bow either; if using Dacron, 12 strands is more than enough and will help realize more of the power in the limbs versus a heavier string. Enjoy...they are great bows.

Simple 12 strand Dacron is a good idea. Brace height may be important twang-wise... no need to get tricky with silencers.

Does this mean you are shooting recurves again,don't know about a string might contact one of the string gurus.

George,

Thanks for your insight, sir!

jk,

I always use Beaver Balls on my stickbows. They're hard to beat!

Bob,

Yes sir, back to a recurve as long as my string fingers can handle it! :)

Bill

I just thought of another question. What type arrow rest should I use on the Flame when I receive it? I've been thinking maybe a feather rest, but, I'm open to suggestions.

Bill

I always used an elevated rest on mine.

A flipper type rest? Or a Bear Weather Rest? Or the Hoyt rest? Or?????

Bill

Bill, I always used a Flipper or a Bear Weather Rest and in all honesty it was just based on what I had in the tackle box at the time.

I've shot them off the shelf as well, shot my Mag II like that for a while. I just get more consistent results shooting from an elevated rest.

Frank, thanks! I'm looking at buying a flipper style rest. I've had bunches of them over the years, but when we moved to NC a couple of weeks ago I gave most of my trad gear to the owner of the Archery Shop.

Bill

Harold liked flippers ...my bow must have had one originally because it's cut away to allow a deep broadhead overdraw which wouldn't work from the shelf.

I wanted to shoot from the shelf so after I had it refinished by Jimmy I contact-cemented a c-shape filler to allow a Bear Hair plate.

Mine is a Spitfire, not a Flame so the limbs are different but the shape's the same.

The Groves Flame arrived in the mail today. I haven't even opened the package yet. I probably won't until I can locate the box in which I packed my Archery Toolbox for our move to NC. I think I have a flipper rest and a shorty plunger in it. If so, I'll be able to set the bow up and shoot it. If not, I'll have to order a flipper rest and shorty plunger.

Bill

PS I'll be opening the package very shortly. I've got to see my new to me Flame! :)

It's a gorgeous bow with great looking wood in the riser. Unfortunately, the string that was laying by the bow in the pictures didn't ship with the bow. I ordered a new string for it.

Bill

I had a Flame Hunter for awhile. It had black glass on the back and green woven glass on the belly. Dick Groves said they had a lot of failures with the woven glass but it was probably the glue. Mine was 62" and 45@28 with average performance. I remember it was a little bit loud but shot well at about 8 1/2" brace.

B50 is safest but I would be tempted to try FF with padded loops. I have an old Mag1 now that I'm putting micarta on the nocks after refinishing. Hopefully it holds up.

I think Dick Groves was only briefly involved in the bow biz following Harold's death. Jimmy kept the wheels on the actual building but his craftsmanship had issues. Flame Hunters were designed to be less expensive than the much faster Spitfires and other Dynastressed bows. The most popular way to silence Groves bows seems to have been brush buttons...that's what I did with my Spitfires.

You know..all I ever had to do with mine was to put a 2 small (key word being small) yarn puffs on each side of the string nock. I also wrap the loops of the strings of most of my bows with yarn.

I should apologize for my comment about Jimmy's craftsmanship. He had to work with worn-out machinery that had made some incredible number of bows. He refinished my Spitfire beautifully and made a WILD multi- colored-bakelite version for a friend.

Dick was involved with the bow building business long before Harold's death. He tillered hundreds of bows for the business. I talked to him quite a bit about his experiences. Jim turned out a lot of bows but he was never known for his finish work and I'm sure arthritis didn't help in the later years. Some of the early 60's bows were as nice as anything made during that time however.

Groves also made a kids bow called a Spark that was cut in half lengthwise off of the Flame form at least according to Dick.

I only knew Harold from 1994 til the end..I think at that time Dickie maintained a distance fwiw. Jimmy wasn't full time in those years but I think he was very important to Harold as he was the only worker. Harold's last years were hellish but he was a very kind and excellent mentor to many nonetheless. I miss his indoor range and the guys who gathered there to shoot..

I met Harold around 1979 when I was 13. My dad bought me a used Spitfire and I was hooked. I would ride my bike to his shop and buy 2-3 arrows and points. Sometimes my friend and I would get a fish arrow and hit the clear ditch. Bow fishing was big fun then and still is.

I've bought, sold, traded or given away 250+ recurves and longbows over the past 16 years. This is my first Groves bow and it is gorgeous! I can't wait to get a string on it and shoot it. How do you think my 485 gr Maxima Red 350s with 200 gr up front will fly out of it? They flew great out of my 62", 45#@28" Morrison Cheyenne with Max 1 carbon/foam limbs.

Bill

Hopefully they fly good. In my opinion... it sounds a little stiff even with 200 grains in the nose, but if it does work for you, GREAT. You definitely have more experience in this than me, but arrow flight seems to be nothing more then matching spine to shelf cut. The more center a shot the more stiff an arrow you can get away with. Also full length or cut to 1" past shelf? I'm not familiar enough with the Groves shelf to really know. But good luck and hope you enjoy it.

-Bones

My arrows are cut to 29" BOP and will remain that way.

Bill

I've never shot Maxima's but I bet they will be too stiff. My last Groves with dynastressed limbs 62", 60@28 liked 400 spine with 225 up front. 340's were too stiff although they were perfect with my Centaur of the same weight and 200 up front.

My bet is that if you have a thin sideplate or thinner elevated rest they will shoot well.

I haven't put a tape on it to measure centershot, but it appears as though the bow window is cut past center just eye balling it. I think they will work fine. The Maxima Reds are a different arrow and are shootable out of a wide range of draw weights dependent upon the point weight up front.

Bill

I have a Flame which has camo paint on the back and belly. It looks professional in an off white pattern with black stripes. Is this a factory pattern? The riser is varnished.

Here is a pic looking at the offside of the grip and the sight window. It appears to be cut past center to me. What do you think?

Bill

Looks past center to me. Love the looks of the ole one piece curves.

I'm still waiting on the string, so I haven't shot it yet. I had to go buy a personal towel for the bow because I keep drooling all over it. :)

Bill

I had an interesting conversation with the owner of a hunting and fishing store about 20 minutes from where we live. He suggested I buy a 56" or 57" string for my 62" Flame. He said he normally uses a string 5" or 6" shorter than the AMO length of the bow. I've never heard a recommendation of a string that short before. When I first started shooting traditional bows I heard 3" less than AMO for longbows and 4" less than AMO for recurves. ????

I ordered a 59", B50, 12 strand string for my Flame with 1-1/8" upper loop and 3/4" lower loop.

Bill

It's possible that bow was made before AMO standards were universally adopted. I've had some Howatts that way where a 62" Hunter took the same string as my 60" Bear Takedown. It would be best if you measure the bow. Rick Barbee posted instructions here - http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/TF/lw/thread2.cfm?forum=23&threadid=275059&messages=7&CATEGORY=9

Thanks for that link. I've never been able to order standard string lengths for my "60" one piece Spitfire, had to make em (which is fair).

http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/TF/lw/thread2.cfm? forum=23&threadid=275059&messages=7&CATEGORY=9

That thread would have helped had a string been shipped with the bow. Unfortunately, I have a bow with no string. I used the 3" less than AMO length to order my new B50 string.

Bill

Also understand that AMO is and was a voluntary standard, and bowyers and manufacturers are not committed to following that criteria. Just measure the bow as you would if you made the bow yourself. Order a flemish twist string 3" shorter and you should have plenty of room to achieve your appropriate brace.

my 56 in. Spitfire takes a 51.25 in string

Measuring from string groove to string groove along the contour on the belly side of the bow I measured 61.5". Three inches less would be 58.5", I hope the 59" string I ordered will give me enough adjustment range to get the 8-8-1/2" BH I'll likely need.

Bill

Bill....use the string that you ordered and play with it to get the brace height right for you. Then after you get that worked out you can order a string to exactly like you want it.

Frank,

Thanks! I intend to do just that!

Bill

Bill....just for the record waiting on you to shoot that dang bow and give us a report is driving me a little closer to nutty. :)

Frank,

I intend to do just that as soon as I receive my new string! :)

Bill

I hope you've got a bow-stringer. Crucial for Groves bows.

John,

Yes sir, I have one. A kind fella from TG sent me one free of charge.

Bill

My new string has shipped and I should receive it Saturday! I'll me shooting my Flame on Saturday, Lord willing!

Bill

I suspect I may have to invest in some new arrows for my Flame. My existing Maxima Red 350s worked great out of my Morrison Cheyenne, 62", 45#@28". However, I don't have the aggressive Max 1 carbon/foam limbs and the Rhino string I had on the Cheyenne. Time will tell.

Bill

I don't think the Flame will be demanding. 2014 might be perfect with 125gr points as might 45-50# wood. It's art, not rocket science.

John,

I'll probably be shooting carbon arrows with 200 gr up front. If my Maxima Red arrows don't work, I';; buy a couple of arrows each in the 55-75 and 40-60 ranges and try them.

Thanks!

Bill

My new string came in the mail today. I've strung it three times and I had to twist it up 30 turns to get the BH to 8". While setting braced for 15-20 minutes the BH dropped to 7-3/4".

Initial observations: this is my first bow I've owned that requires a non-fastflight string, I erred on the conservative side on the string loops and ordered the top loop at 1-1/8", I should have ordered it at 1-1/4".

Bill

I took the bow out of the closet yesterday and measured the BH. After 4 days of being in the closet while strung, the BH decreased another 1/4" to 7.5". I ordered a new endless loop B50 string today at 58.25" length and with a 1.25" upper loop and 1" lower loop.

Bill

Get in the habit of unstringing it after every shooting session, there's no reason to leave it strung overnight.

I'm probably going to take this string off and leave it off until the new string arrives. The too small upper loop on this string makes it a pain to try to string/unstring!

Bill

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