I have the understanding that building the arrow rest sideplate out will weaken an arrows spine. So, by the same line of thought if you have a wood POC 23/64 and a very small diam. carbon; both spined to "55 lbs" The wooden arrow will act as a much weaker arrow. Because the center the POC would be farther from center of the bow. Am I correct? and if that is so then you would need a much stiffer wooden arrow then carbon arrow out of the same bow?

You're correct. Viper talks about this in his book - changing diameter - even with the same static spine - changes center-shot and thus tuning.

What is Viper's book? Where available?

'Shooting the Stickbow' by Anthony Camera - 'Viper' here on the 'wall.

http://www.3riversarchery.com/shooting-the-stickbow-book-by-anthony-camera.html

I thought bringing the side plate out made the arrow spine stiffer? But it's not something new for me to get it wrong..

correct...even with "only carbons" there's substantial set-up differences between...standard 5/16"...9/32"...and VAP's

Even with the same point weight and setting them all...

"point just left of the string"

the micro-diameter VAP's will typically require a full step weaker in spine...because the center of the point is not as far left of the string.

I had a 21" riser with Sky TR7 Limbs for a 64"/36# bow and was punching clean holes in paper with full length .800 spine VAP's with 110gr glue-in points...but they were set-up aboust as dlose to being "Center-Shot" as one can get.

In recent times I've read a few posts saying building out the strike plate weakens spine. I too, thought it was the opposite. Can somebody please explain?

This thread reminds me once again that we never shoot theoretical arrows...wood, for example, performs far differently than carbon so that trying to apply principles between the two materials is of little value...still when one starts using either with some thought it does not take long to understand what is happening...it is surely the same with sideplate thickness, something I have never felt a need to tinker with since I have a lot of bows...I only hunt with bows that I can fine tune without tinkering with that factor, and having a half dozen well tuned hunting bows seems to me to be plenty...still if I was going to tinker with the sideplate thickness issue I would apply something I learned from my mathematics teaching training, always start with the simplest case scenario and go from there...to me the simplest way to understand would be to use my Hoyt Desperado, fitted with a flipper rest and plunger...leaving the plunger tension the same I would move the plunger in and out noting its effect on arrow flight...in a very short time I would have a solid understanding without feeling the need to read anything in a book or website

DDave

It doesn't 'weaken spine', it makes the arrow act stiffer. Or you can say it reduces the spine *needed*.

Building out the side plate makes the bow have less of a centershot that would require a weaker spine.Building out the side plate will make a weak spined arrow stiffer.If you have a stiff spined arrow building out the side plate will make it even stiffer because the arrow will be more off center.

I'm glad I read all the messages posted here. Now it's as clear as mud! BobG

""Building out the side plate makes the bow have less of a centershot that would require a weaker spine.Building out the side plate will make a weak spined arrow stiffer.If you have a stiff spined arrow building out the side plate will make it even stiffer because the arrow will be more off center.""

Chaching!!! Give that man a teddy bear. That's how it works. I don't know why this is such a hard subject to fathom. It's been working the same way since the first bow was made. If the arrow if further from center, it has to bend more. If it's closer, it doesn't. Pretty simple folks.

Incorrect.

Building out the strike plate compensates for over flex of a weak spine shaft. It does not weaken the shaft.

The larger diameter wood arrow will actually react stiffer, because it is riding farther out from center.

Adjusting spine with strike plate:

(A) If arrow is shooting stiff, move strike plate in/toward the bow. "Thin the strike plate."

(B) If arrow is shooting weak, move strike pate out/away from the bow. "Thicken the strike plate."

Rick

If you can comprehend the difference between "static" spine and "dynamic" spine it becomes much clearer.

A simpler approach would be: if you have arrows flying well and yet you are grouping to the right of the spot you are aiming at, build out your strike plate to move the groups point of impact to the left. Additionally this can be accomplished by lighter field points or shortening your arrow in 1/4" increments (if you have extra arrow length). Also and only if you can stay within acceptable brace height range, you can lower your brace height and achieve a slight point of impact change to the left.

""Building out the strike plate compensates for over flex of a weak spine shaft. It does not weaken the shaft."" Pretty much what I was saying Mr. Rick and I was quoting a previous thread.

Strshotx was correct, but maybe should have said, 'building out the side plate will make a weak spined arrow "act" stiffer. Semantics can be such a bear.

LOL George, I think we were all posting about the same time.

Thank you for clearing that up guys, it is as I thought. Thought I was losing my mind.

So to complicate things ? If a lefthanded shooter is shooting 4out of 5 arrows 6 inches to the right he should????

[[[ "So to complicate things ? If a lefthanded shooter is shooting 4out of 5 arrows 6 inches to the right he should????" ]]]

Assuming everything else is how it should be - This would be an indicator of an arrow that is to stiff.

There are several ways to deal with this, BUT since this topic is about strike plate position - you would need to thin your strike plate material, or do whatever it takes to move the surface of said material closer to the bow.

Rick

It's as I thought. Thanks guys. As for the left handed shooter, correct if wrong, your arrow would be stiff, opposite of the right handed shooter which would be weak? (Or bad release) (Or Canting) (Not pulling to anchor)..and other stuff I do..Hahahaha Chuck

keep it comin guys, im learnin all kindsa shit i didnt no about,lol.,. no offense'

George Stout is right, as usual. :-) And Rick Barbee, too :-)

For you longbow shooters this is something you can try and learn for your self about the difference in where the arrows group when you make changes. You must have a constant that is a consistent style for each change made. So start with a bow held vertical no canting and hold the bow so you can see the string aligned as close as possible with the arrow. This will align the string arrow to match any build-out and arrow diameter. Set you aiming reference that is head position places the dominate eye inline over the arrow and use an inline drop release. This will allow the string to transfer energy inline with the center of gravity of the arrow to over come the effects of inertia . I know you will be surprised to find that spine and diameter will be self adjusting when the bow is held right and eye placement matches string arrow alignment.If you are canting the bow and head will give you a different result in grouping to the right for RH and the point of the arrow will have to be adjusted to match the canting not the spine.jp

String -

Mr. Stout and Rick are correct, bringing the arrow farther outboard of center shot will stiffen it's dynamic spine. That happens because of both arrow placement on rest or shelf and/or the diameter of the arrow. For a left handed shooter, That would push the arrow to the RIGHT, but not because of spine, unless bare shafts were used.

(It's not just a technical arrow thing, when I go from indoor std size aluminum arrows, to my skinny outdoor carbons or composites, the thinner the shaft, the stiffer the spine.)

Yeah, it's gonna get more complicated.

By the time spine causes a fletched arrow to fishtail or even a real R/L deviation, it has to be pretty far off spine-wise. A little fletching can cover a lot of crap.

Again for a left handed shooter, building up the strike plate or going to a fatter arrow WILL push the arrows to the RIGHT on the target, because the arrow is now pointing further right. Most "instinctive" types will compensate for the R/L deviation naturally with a little practice.

So, to answer your question, what should you do if most of your arrows are going a little right, I would check your form first (typically bow side flubs with cause a right arrow for a lefty) and/or aim further left. Seriously, I've shot bare shafts with totally different impacts shoot the same at close range (20 yards) when fletched.

As far as the trad mantra of "tuning, I don't need no stinkin' tuning", without that, you'll never know if it's your form. aiming, or set up.

Viper out.

I am using a clicker set at 27 inches. I set it with my eyes closed and w/o an arrow til I hit my anchor point. Then I measured my draw...the bow is Stalker FXT 51# @28. So 48@27 ... When using full length (30.5)GT 35/55 and 175 I am hitting 6 inches right and level with where I am aiming. They are grouping softball size @ 20 yard...When I change the point to 125 they are hitting even farther right and high... When I try GT 15/35 full length with 175 and 125 they are still hitting right? It is really driving me crazy. I have spent thousands on bows and arrows. Hundreds of hours trying to learn to shoot well and I still shoot like shit.

"you would need to thin your strike plate material, or do whatever it takes to move the surface of said material closer to the bow.

Rick"

Change strike plate position relative to bow centerline. :)

I guess I'm glad that Rick explained it the way that he did.... because that's the way I've always understood it!

At least since I started paying attention....

'Shooting the Stickbow' by Anthony Camera - 'Viper' here on the 'wall. http://www.3riversarchery.com/shooting-the-stickbow-book-by- anthony-camera.html

I went today from horizontal to canting my bow. And shooting right seemed to clear up.I think my head is to fat and tilting is letting my look over the arrow for gap shooting better? And I am gettin a better release too.... I went to GT 35/55 with 125 cut to 28 inches and they are flying like darts now.. down side is my draw seems to be shorter and I am hitting high... but I am thinking it is from using a shorter arrow using the gap.?

Funny that not a single person on this thread acknowledged anything that Jim Ploen wrote......

http://archerycalculator.com/arrow-front-of-center-foc-calculator/

This thread makes my head hurt...

I'll be the first... I didn't understand what Jim Ploen was teachings? I guess it just is above my comprehension. If he could simplify it for me I would like to understand it. I have always loved my Hill Longbow but have almost given up on her .

Actually before anybody does much laughing at Jim's post, they may want to do some research on who he is.

He's one of the few on here who can say he's "been there and done that"....just about all of it.

I think you miss understood... I really would like to learn what knowledge he has to offer. What is an inline drop release?

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