I used a bunch of Mike Fedora Jr's "Ultracore" years ago and really liked it, especially the Wenge. I'm wondering if anybody's making anything similar these days?

http://web.archive.org/web/20040401161632/http ://dnmarchery.com/generic.html?pid=6

The stuff made great arrows too.

I don't know why you would want bubinga or wenge as your working limb core. Stuff is too heavy.

Have you tried it?

No, but I'd be very surprised if it was any faster than bamboo,yew,red elm or hard maple.

Osage is kind of heavy:^) seems to make a prety good limb tho.

the advantage that the Ultracore had as I recall is that due to the lamination process it was stiffer for a given lamination thickness.

Now, how much that offset the weight difference I don't know for sure, but it was very stable, and very durable.

I'm not sure of the degree of better, if any, that laminated laminations make versus standard lams. To me, all those glue lines are individual potential problem areas so I would just as soon have a solid lamination in my bow limbs. Just me, based on the success of those maple lams that have worked so beautifully for decades.

"all those glue lines are individual potential problem areas" Harold Groves told me the same thing........

ask Kirk Lavender Bigfoot Bows over on tradarchers-I seem to remember hearing him talking about ultracore recently-he comes here some also-or Oldbowyer here on LW might know.

One advantage of the laminated lam is that it machines very well and is very consistent.

Bingham, for one, has always offered core flex/super actionwood and now have it in stock again. I think it's Birch.

Never cared for it under clear glass but it's excellent core lams.

Thanks Mike, I'll check with Kirk. Steve

Never used them but heard it resists twisting. I do how ever know this to be wrong as I knew some one who's bow twisted just the same as a solid maple lam bow does.Can't see any Benifit to them. You could make your own. OSR

I believe that Bill Howland of Brackenbury's was the originator of the "Ultra-Core;" he designed it because he could no longer get the Actionwood maple lams,and then farmed it out to Mike Jr. for production.

Bill told me that he tested many different wood combinations-- black locust, honey locust, bubinga, wenge, etc.--and that the wenge had the best performance characteristics of any he tested.

Everyone's entitled to have their opinion, but it's important to remember that the guy who actually made the stuff did the necessary testing to justify its production.

I really like wenge.

Harold Groves didn't like actionwood because it consisted so much of glue, rather than wood. That's specifically why he didn't use it.

I'm working with wenge for the first time right now with two risers. I can't imagine it as a core lam in any form. Very heavy! Not fun to work with either. A wenge sliver is in a class of it's own. LOL

I really like wenge as a core, no doubt its my all time favorite.

Mike Fedora Jr called wenge his "secret" core. It is nasty stuff to work with but it makes a fast, strong, twist resistant limb. If you try it I'd bet you'd agree. Steve

In some respects bamboo is laminated, if you use the flooring style of vertical laminated boo. There is no glue. And the way it is laid up it has variable density to a high degree which means you get compression resistance which is the main focus in most cores, while also getting less heavy pith in the core. But it would shoot differently than a lamination made of very hard and heavy woods, that kind of lam might be felt in terms of poundage and f/d curve vs another limb core, depending on design.

The lamination will not add stiffness (other than from the glue line itself) if it is stripes when viewed from the face or back. It will create some stiffness laterally and in twist. It might also make the limb more stable to moisture take up, but no if the finish is highly permeable.

Isn't it the same as comparing a plain wood board to a piece of plywood? At the same thickness the plywood is stronger.

It's pretty time consuming to cut and glue up yourself, but it makes great lams, riser blocks, and arrows.I dom't like actionwood near as much as laminated wenge, red elm, maple, bamboo etc.

Plywood may be 'stronger' but it will still warp. I know! Work with it every day, have watched a thousand flat boards turn into potato-chip curves over the course of an hour!

The future is carbon foam cores, all else is nostalgia. (tfic!)

I'm nostalgic ;)

looks like it's time for me to make some more plywood

Well I'm under the impression nobody is making what I'm looking for anymore. Looks like it's time for me to make some more plywood. Maybe some plyboo too.

There are no foam cores in my future and it has nothing whatsoever to do with nostalgia.

Bowlim, how is vertical bamboo flooring held together if it isn't glued?

Harold also used 1 single lamination in his bows to avoid an extra glue joint. There's lots of ways to build bow limbs, lots of materials to use. Some folks like 1 material, some like another.

Hard to beat maple.

yep it all boils down to personal preference I guess. after all I'm the only one that has to shoot the thing

I really like actionboo,actionwood and edge grain elm especially now in the age of veneers and clear glass

Iwander, true that. Lots of folks get to 'talkin' about what's best about everything, even in the face of what has worked. No doubt there are some great materials to work with nowadays, and likely there will be more as technology in manufacturing processes advance even further.

Liking the old wood laminations has zero to do with nostalgia. Well, maybe a bit; however, it is said and it is true...."the best indicator of future performance is past performance." With that in mind, no one can say that the old maple lams won't hold their own, and many times exceed the durability and performance of some modern materials. Same for bamboo, red elm, and many...many solid wood laminations. And dang few archers are good enough to tell the difference in shooting alone, save for bragging about a few extra fps here and there.

Everyone likes to have an "ace in the hole" so many bowyers will swear by this, and swear by that....and you likely can't argue with their success either. Doesn't mean one is heads- above another though. I've shot bows of all material and frankly there is not enough difference that I can notice that would make me want one over the other, except for looks. Under clear glass, nothing looks more classy than solid open grain red elm. At least that's my story.

Fdp, Harold's use of a single wooden lam led, I believe, to the failures in the limbs I saw in his bows at the ends of the wedges/fadeout lams.

Well said, George.

That could be the case Jeff. I too have seen the failures just like you are talking about.

Actually, there was a point when there was a very thin lamination added to the fade out area on the wedge of the takedowns. I think that was added to alleviate that problem.

I have a set of those limbs.

Jeff D. I guess it is an industrial process fo the most part, so I haven't seen it myself, but Igather they can simply press the material together under heat, maybe steam, and the starches fuse together. If you look at it there isn't any glue line, though admitedly some plywood glues are white. Apprently the same process can be used to make structural plywood like panels out of left over straw the stuff they burn. In that case the amount of glue required would be very large, so an alternative is nice.

Home Depot had a pretty good store of bamboo flooring at one point and they had this material that was like a chunky aspenite and it used black glues so you got this effect of random geometry with black lines, it was pretty cool, but knowing it was just waste bamboo and glue didn't particularly comand a premium price from me.

That is all I know, I don't for instance know that if it is true that bamboo materials are fused whether the fusions are waterproof. Doesn't mater, Ihave made quite a few boats using plywood that wasn't waterproof, or even exterior, once you seal it, it doesn't mater that much. But it might be an idea to seal the edges with epoxy.

Plywood is for the most part a different material, it is a series 0/90 veneer orientations, and it is typically a very stable material in that form. The venners in plywood are normally rotary cut like a pencil sharpener shaving, which is not an optimal format but works in the situation. Veneers for lams are normally sawn, and they are glued up in a linear 0/0/0 format of orientation (all grain parallel as in the tree).

Making your own lam is easy, with vacuum bagging or clamps, or a screw press, assuming you can get veneer by sawing it or buying it . Sawn veneer is a pretty unusual comodity though. Basically the process as laminating the limb stack.

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