I know a bow tillered for split finger will require a higher nocking point than usual for 3U, but does it change much to have a bow tillered even and shot split. Mostly referring to any issues with limb timing and noise. Just wondering so thanks for any reply! Pat

Makes absolutely no difference unless you are talking about a bow you are making yourself, that you can build it in to.

Lots of folks shoot split and 3 under with the same nock setting interchangeably. The "higher nock" and "tiller" thing has only come about since the "traditional" revolution.

it makes a difference with selfbows, but very little with glass bows

Self bows tillered for split will take set on the bottom limb after they are shot 3 under for a bit. Seen it several times with several woods. Cant comment on glass sandwiches and the effects.

You adjust for your style, and since everyone is a bit different, there is no single statement that applies. I've shot bows with reversed tiller and they shot okay, so I seriously doubt an even tiller would be an issue for split finger.

Way back when companies like Bear and Pearson mass produced bows and no one had a problem shooting them split or three under. Don't sweat it.

People can shoot accurately using the string walking method. That kind of throws tiller concern on the back burner. I'm not sure what it does for noise or hand shock.

There is only about 1/8" difference between a split set tiller and a 3under tiller. Nothing to sweat over.

It might depend a little on the bow, though I have not had the experience with this. If you have a properly set up bow for split where the nock is above a square set arrow/nock, and then a littlehigher, you can shoot 3 under, because the nock goes higher.

But if you have a properly set up bow for 3 under, and if you have a nock set on the low end of what you want for 3 under, and then you have to drop it down further to shoot split (as far as the limb balance is concerned), then you could end up in a situation where the nock is being blown into the rest (assuming you can't just lower the rest. This actually tears a tail high hole, and can be hard to spot at first.

I don't know if it would be too much of a big deal, particularly on light bows, but that is what I think would happen.

Patrick, here is what I have found. I have 2 bow tillered for 3 under (even tiller) and set my nock point the same as my bows that are tillered for split finger. Same arrow flight and they shoot the same and are quiet and smooth. No difference what so ever.

The reason I ask is that on a 3/16" or even 1/8" positive tiller bow, the braced profile is noticeably asymmetrical the shorter the bow, and while I know it's more about the limb timing upon pull and release, if the difference in noise is negligible I prefer a perfectly aligned braced profile as long as the limbs open up evenly shooting split. I hope this makes sense... Cheers!

well i could be wrong be if it makes no differents about tiller then why does every GOOD bower ask witch why you shoot three under or slit finger.and for those who think it doesnt make a difference shoot a bow that is tillered slit finger then shoot it three under any see how much louder the bow is.

You have it backwards, 3-under will require a higher nock point than split finger,. Bob

Shoot the bow.

There is no standard tiller for split and 3 under. You may or may not have to change nock height, but only the dynamic reaction of the arrow actually being shot can tell you, not us.

Or, maybe I should've just wrote, "what fdp said".

Misinformation regarding this abounds more than any other aspect of classical archery I can think of.

Roger I don't wait for the dynamic reaction of the arrow to tell me whether relative limb balance is good. I know it's good. I build great arrow flight into the bow by coordinating design and balancing limb strength relative to the archer's holds, and set the nock point where I planned to from the beginning. Arrow flight is a product of everything I did leading up to that first drop of the string, and if I did my work proper, it should be excellent. All I should have to worry about is matching spine... and I try my best to match bows to that too.... only cuz I'd rather make bows than arrows ;^)

When you change your nock up or down you change the limb timing same as a tiller change does. Every GOOD bowyer didn't used to ask about tiller until recent years. One guy starts to give that as an option, convincing guys it makes a difference so he can sell more bows. Then once this one bowyer has people convinced it helps all the others have to offer it in order to compete. Or maybe the guy who started it just didn't understand what changing nock position does. jmo

I shoot a blacktail tillered for 3 under, split fingered great groups(and bare shaft) my son shoots 3under with bows set /tillered for split with no problems

Pat -

Standard acceptable tiller for most conventional bows is between neutral and 1/4" positive (lower limb stronger). Unless the bow is very short or very poorly designed, you should be able to shoot those specs anyway you like.

Caveat - If you're string walking 3" below the arrow, all bets are off.

Viper out.

I wonder if it's ever happened that such a widely propogated, practiced, and publicized 'standard' was incorrect?

Question everything.

Jeff -

Buy an ILF rig and go from heavy positive to heavy negative tiller and see what happens. I know of no descent shooters going too far off that "standard". Not with conventional bows anyway.

There are certainly some old wives tales, but most are propagated by trad types looking to be "different".

Viper out.

Tony, I'm more prone to question wive's tales and conventional wisdom and investigate, learn and do for myself. I haven't needed an ILF rig yet to know what's optimal, though it would have helped expedite things, especially while instructing others. I still may go that route as my testing moves forward.

In my experience, what is propogated by trad types is often them blindly repeating what they've heard without question or accurate comprehensive understanding, and much of what is purported by bowyers specifically, is misleading or just flat wrong.

Jeff -

My point was only that you can test the effects of positive and negative tiller on the exact same rig with the simple turn of a bolt or two. I "inadvertently" did that a few years ago, and didn't like the results. For that matter Earl Hoyt tested the same theory in the early 80's, when he started with ILFs and pretty much came up with the same results. In most cases tiller is a non issue (accuracy and "feel" wise) until you start going out of the normal range, of 0 to 1/4" +.

With me, I set my tiller to 1/8" positive and forget about it. The rest is standard tuning.

"In my experience, what is propogated by trad types is often them blindly repeating what they've heard without question or accurate comprehensive understanding, and much of what is purported by bowyers specifically, is misleading or just flat wrong."

Unfortunately, it ain't just trad types ... seems more the norm than the exception these days. Since we deal with archery on a daily basis, it just hits home more often.

Viper out.

I always bring this up and it is seldom addressed but I will always say tillering for finger placement makes no sense. Most of us tend to let go of the string when we shoot an arrow, from the moment we release the string the arrow is the only thing holding the string back, I say tiller the bow to where the string pulls straight back at the arrow nocking point. I go right below that as I like to raise my nocking point about a 1/4" over the shelf.

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