From: OneShot
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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I am not a great shot by any means. I average 250 score on a NFAA blue face target at 20 yards. I assume that would be about average for barebow shooters? I limit all my hunting shots to under 20 yards but am thinking about hunting out west where a 30 yard shot might be necessary.
I like to gauge my shooting on a blue face target to see if I improve. If shooting at 30 yards, what would be a realistic score with your hunting set-up?
Thank you
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From: CMF_3
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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250 average is NOT average, but well above. Sure, there are guys that shoot much better, but far more shoot worse.
You can't put some arbitrary number or rate on what qualifies you to take a shot while hunting. Obviously you want to practice at any distance you plan to shoot from.
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From: Viper
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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One -
250 was average about 40 something years ago for regular club shooters with hunting rigs. These days, not so much I'm sorry to say.
Most people drop about 20 points for every 10 yards added, but that's not carved in stone. If your form is solid, there may come a balance point, since moving farther back, gets you closer to point on.
Viper out.
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From: Kwikdraw
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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10 of 10 on a pie plate. Hunting will definitely be a much more difficult scenario than the pie plate test!
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From: fdp
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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I agree with Viper. Keep in mind also, that while I too feel that you should be as accurate as possible, the thing that creates the biggest problem for people hunting out West in MY experience, is range estimation.
This is particularly true hunting Elk and so on. Compared to an Eastern whitetail, Elks are BIG. They aren't as close as you estimate them in the beginning.
Personally, I'm not opposed to some sort of range finder to get the berings worked out.
Also, keep in mind that the vital area on an Elk is huge as well.
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From: Flash
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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In my opinion, 240 at 30yards is acceptable hunting accuracy.
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From: bomack
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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Hunted Utah and Colorado my whole life and always stuck to timbered areas or their fringes just so I would have shorter shooting-distance opportunities. Worked so well with a bow I began hunting with a rifle the same way. Hunting pronghorn is a different game.
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From: M60gunner
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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IMO your a good shot. Wher out West and what you going to hunt may be more of an indication of the ranges you want practice. I think the range finder idea is good as well. If you hunt with an outfitter he may well have blinds to hunt from. I have also seen tree stands in Elk country.
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From: raghorn
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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The first arrow is the one that matters, not a score a group,
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From: GLF
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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viper x3
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From: zetabow
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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Depends on the Bow, my current setup, a modern ILF and Stringwalking, on a Hunter face at 28 to 32 yards I'm averaging 18 points, with Longbow and woodies I would be happy with 15-16 points at that distance.
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From: fdp
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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These discussions always deteriorate to the "first arrow" talk track.
While it is true that 1 arrow MAY be all you get, that's not always the case. And, the ability to shoot good, consistent scores and groups should do nothing but to increase one's confidence when they turn that 1 arrow loose.
Solid groups and scores are an indicator that you have a defined, and repeatable shot sequence that let's you know if you execute that 1 shot correctly, it's on the money. Period.
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From: Flash
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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No doubt for hunting the first arrow is all important, so it needs to be no worse than a four. OP asked about a full round though, funny how that first shot four, done 60 times equals a 240.
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From: GLF
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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Guy ignore that first arrow thing. 1 arrow won't build strength, so that makes it easy to become bow weak. If you can pull and hold your bow as easily as you could a 20 pounder you'll shoot alot better. If you can shoot consistent groups that ONE arrow will go where you want it to alot more often. Ideas like that 1 arrow at a time and shooting "trad" like Fred Bear are the reasons guys in the 60's shot so much better than modern day guys on average. Fred shot like he did due to tp that he had worked thru but still had trouble holding so he didn't. I get so tired of people using the excuse of "I'm a Bowhunter" for poor accuracy.
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From: Calgroundgame
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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250????????Average? for wheelie guys maybe. If you are shooting that at 20 I have full confidence in you could pie plate all your arrows at 40 with some practice and belief
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From: Viper
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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C-
We're talking about the blue NFAA target.
Don't know where you're shooting, but a 6" group for 60 arrows at 20 yards was more the norm with hunting gear than not before "trad" was a word. And true 6" groups (with few flyers) would put you above a 250.
A compound shooter, averaging a 250 on that target, while "good enough" to hunt, probably doesn't have a clue as to what he's doing. I certainly wouldn't call him "good".
Viper out.
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From: ahunter55
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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I shoot as a rule several indoor 20 yard shoots. The bigger competitions with my compound. If your shooting 250s barebow your doing very well. I did over 30 years bowhunting out west, recurve & compound & the majority of my shots were under 30 at Mule Deer & always right around 35yds on Elk. I've killed Both with recurve & Compound. I always hunted early part of the season & big timber at 10,000 or higher.. I'm guessing lower country, being more open (at least where I was) those distances may get longer.. I've blind, waterhole Antelope a couple times & killed at 20 & missed at 30 twice & 25 once. I'm going again this year & taking Longbow & Compound. 25 & less, Longbow, over that compound.. I'm a "swinger".. Just do lots of practice at 20, 30 & 40 yds + "use" a range finder when you have time..
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From: oldgoat
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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I would never consider a target sheet score in any way to whether are not I'm competent in the field, huge difference standing on that mountain side at an unknown distance shooting up and down hill and standing on an archery range in sterile conditions where everything is perfect. I don't even think the average 3d course is particularly good practice unless it's set up right. Stump shooting or a properly set up 3d course is what you want to practice and I'm in no way maligning paper shoots, I just don't think it's good practice for the field other than the mental and form help it can provide. That's my two cents, your mileage may vary!
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From: larryhatfield
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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Could someone explain to me why the ability to place 4 or 6 arrows in succession in the center of a target face is somehow unrelated to hunting accuracy? After over 62 years shooting targets and animals I guess I am still learning about this sport.
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From: mangonboat
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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I agree with those who predict that moving out to 30 yards will likely produce a drop in average paper face scores because every minor error is magnified by 50%, but you can still have acceptable accuracy with practice.
I also agree with those who stress the need for real-world hunting practice in order to become proficient at longer distances. In addition to the magnified effect minor errors, you add in terrain elevation differences, wind, and the added variable of drop. If you practice on a range at 30 yards, you learn how much drop your set up has at 30 yards, but with many trad set-ups, especially arrows with total weights > 10 gpp or with significant FOC, the difference in drop between 25 and 35 yards is not insignificant. I know that if I go stumping on the ridges for the first time after weeks or months of practicing on level ground from known distances, I bury a lot of judo points in the dirt well short of my intended target.
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From: Pinecrest
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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Go out and shoot a 14 target NFAA field course with your hunting bow,I just did and it is an eye opener.Great practice no matter how you define it.
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From: zetabow
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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Last couple of years I've been shooting Indoor Flint rounds (out to 30y). not shot much these days but I prefer them to the 300 rounds, reminds me more of the Field practice I do outdoors and would likely help you with confidence as well.
It doesn't matter if you shoot one or ten arrow groups, I only shoot one arrow at a time and I shoot each of them like it's my first and only arrow.
People today don't like shooting multi arrow groups because it shows their lack of focus/discipline and their ego cannot accept it.
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From: fdp
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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Excellent question Mr. Hatfield.
And I notice we are still awaiting the explanation.
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From: RymanCat
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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Never seen a blue face target out in the bush. That's the worst thing you can practice on unless your a target man. You need depth perception obtained from stumping normally. If you want to practice wide open shooting then get a 3 d target and set up to shoot various angles in as live as a set up you can get yourself into.
Practicing on open face targets are for target shooters its all together different out in the bush.
I think the most important is to know where your bow shoots and its trajectory the up an down then be steady at the shot and bare down.
Try to prepair for as many variables as you can because more than likely you could easyly get faced to them. If you haven't thought them out then you have hindered yourself and making the shot might be harder than you thought.
Good luck.
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From: Firstlight
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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Thank you Mr. Hatfield for a sound question. IE: "Could someone explain to me why the ability to place 4 or 6 arrows in succession in the center of a target face is somehow unrelated to hunting accuracy?"
And thank you gentlemen whom create a sad chuckle as you continue to share poor information for the new guys; "groups don't matter"
There is really nothing that can be said to an "archer" who doesn't get the simple concept of why tight "groups" are a good thing.
Just like there is a benefit of shooting one arrow only and making it count.
Isn't archery about consistency which comes from good, repeatable form, as we use our chosen method of aiming.
Now don't slam me for implying archery is an aiming sport.
Good day!
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From: Northener
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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I have and always will maintain shooting target is the best practice for archers, matters not if its 300 round, field round, these venues tell the story of how good a archer one is, no where to hide with the scores.
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From: bradsmith2010santafe
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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if you want to be accurate,, at 30 yards,, practice that yardage with your other practice,, shooting groups is great practice,,, making your first arrow count is great practice too,, consistent accuracy being the goal for hunting and target, they are related,, I would have to say I totally agree with the thought that if you can shoot a tight 5 shot group,,,, chances are you can make that first arrow count as well,, I find stump shooting great practice too,,
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From: fdp
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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Seems that one of the issues that is rearing it's head as it relates to this discussion is that folks don't seem to have the patience to wait until the shot present's itself.
The only thing that the object that I'm hunting controls is when it presents itself. That and the weather are the only "variables" I deal with. If the shot isn't good for me, I don't take it at 10 yards or 40. if the set up isn't good, I move. I control the play, not the other way around.
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From: zetabow
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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Great post Brad.
Of course if all you ever shoot is 300 rounds then expecting to be a good hunter is asking a bit much. It's all about balance, meaning bringing together all those different training methods required to be a skilled Bowhunter, being able to shoot groups is just one part of the required skill set.
I don't know how anybody could argue shooting consistent accurate groups is not required for Bowhunting.
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From: Uncle Lijiah
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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My target panic when I have an audience(actually its more like performance anxiety or stage fright) increases with each arrow I shoot in succession. Even if I'm shooting alone and I shoot 3 arrows in a tight group, I starting sweating bullets and might send the 4th arrow totally astray. Yes, I know I'm a mess but I have fun. Luckily, I don't get buck fever until after the shot! :)
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From: jk
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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Wouldn't 3D performance tell the story better than NFAA?
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From: Flash
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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In my opinion 3-d scoring placement isn't optimal for real world hunting. The center of the 10 ring is to high on almost every animal. That said, I enjoy 3-d but I'm shooting for a low 10. I hit alot of 8's low that are great hunting shots but don't help your score for conpitition.
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From: Will tell
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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Some people are good hunters and not good at the range and some are good at the range and not so good at hunting. Some are good at both. Only you know at what distance you should take a shot. If your going to take 30 yard shots practice at that distance or further in the conditions you'll be hunting in. It really doesn't matter what targets your shooting at, paper or 3D animals as long as you can put the arrow where you want it. I shoot a 3D course that has a lot of different shots, open field and through the woods, up and down. I usually know when I'm close enough for a kill shot, sometimes it's close and sometimes it's 30 yards and further. We all have a comfort zone but the distance varies with each of us and with each shot. Good luck and hope you get a big one.
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From: fdp
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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What Flash said and the practice on range estimation.
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From: Orion
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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I've been hunting out west for about 30 years now. Don't know where the idea got started that you can expect to shoot farther out west. I don't, and haven't found it necessary. Sure, you can sometimes see the critters farther away. That doesn't mean you should shoot at them. Very few shooters I know are consistent at 30 yards or better.
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From: GF
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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"Could someone explain to me why the ability to place 4 or 6 arrows in succession in the center of a target face is somehow unrelated to hunting accuracy? After over 62 years shooting targets and animals I guess I am still learning about this sport."
Explain it to you?? I don't think so, Larry.. If you haven't figured it out yet, there's obviously no hope for you! Guess you're destined to live out your days clinging to those ridiculous, old-fashioned notions....
Just one thought from me. When I am shooting repeatedly from the same range, I don't sweat the vertical error too much because I am not trying to engrain a specific gap. Much more important to me that I'm holding tight to the line. An 8" circle is 50 square inches, but I'm happier with the thought of a group that's a foot high and 4" wide....
Of course you do have to put in your time stumping and/or working your way around the 3-D course… But that's fun.
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From: Pinecrest
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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Oops, those NFAA targets I was shooting at were black and white target faces.Many side hill,up hill, down hill shots on the course how are you supposed to learn your equipment and how angles affect your arrow placement if you don't practice these shots.I find that if you can hit a spot target even out in da woods you can hit anything.
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From: Flash
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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Not to be a smart A but I kill alot different sized animals. I'm aiming for the same size spot on all of them.
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From: Pinecrest
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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Practicing with my hunting bow is not the worst thing I can do.I could shoot broadheads into my backyard sand pit,shoot at my 2 deer or my black bear 3d targets or shoot spots.Any practice helps,but I don't hunt in the rain.
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From: fdp
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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"I'm aiming for the same size spot on all of them" X 2.
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From: Les Bishop
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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We dont have a 300 round down here in australia but i figure that each shot has to be a first shot or you arent going to score very well. so whats the argument about groups
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From: GLF
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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No ones saying stumping and field shooting isn't good practice. But so is shooting tight groups. The only problem with stumping only is a near miss is considered a god shot by most stumping. It's a miss! Also a near miss from where you aim on a 3d target is also just a miss even if its in the kill. That's why shooting groups also helps. Guys will tell you they just shoot 15 yards cause they can't shoot farther accurately. Why not learn to shoot 20 or 25 accurately? Over the last 50 years I've noticed the guys who practice and shoot well tend you get "lucky" alot on game.
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From: roger
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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I've started a new organization, it's called "All Groups Matter". :)
I've also heard the argument from those who can't hold any semblance of a group, but claim to kill every animal they want to in the woods.....and then I helped those same 'archers' track unrecovered wounded deer. It makes no earthly sense and that's merely because it's a lame excuse.
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From: Bowmania
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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I'm from Cheezehead land and found out that out west 30 yards is really 40.
What I mean by that is when you get out there, there will be nothing except solid ground between you and your target. Out east you have 20 trees between you and a 20 yard shot. The perception is just different.
After a couple of misses out there I sent the normal gap and then just a little more because I'm out west. That got me to a 45 yard shot and 2 at 40ish. Probably never would have shot if I knew they were that far.
Oh, yea, and I thing from what I see today 250 is way above average.
Bowmania
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From: CMF_3
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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Man oh man. Myths and old wives tales. If you can't shoot targets you're just getting lucky if you ever kill something. Either that or you're getting awful close before shooting.
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From: ravenhood
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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becoming a good group shooter is not the only way to become a good hunting shot
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From: fdp
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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The original question was did the scores shot on the NFAA target have any bearing on expected hunting accuracy. Qualified by the OP stating that he like to shoot the NFAA target to gauge improvement. (smart idea). The answer would be yes.
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From: Bob Rowlands
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Date: 03-May-16 |
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I have very little accuracy past twenty five yards. It is what it is.
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From: DanaC
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Date: 04-May-16 |
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Longer distance shooting can be humbling. A bit of humility never hurt anyone. If it keeps you from launching a too-low-percentage arrow on a live animal, it's a good thing.
As distance to target increases, each small variable becomes more important. 'Minor' form errors, crosswinds, trajectory, range estimation, etc. etc. That's not to say we should limit ourselves, rather, that we should seek to increase our shooting skills, no matter how good we already are. 'Formal' target shooting is *one* way to do that, and has the benefit of being *measurable*. Score don't lie.
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From: DanaC
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Date: 04-May-16 |
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You might want to get yourself one of these and score yourself at 33 yards/30 meters. I just ordered one for our trad 3D shoot, something for the guys at the practice butts to play with. (The course won't have any 33 yard shots!)
http://www.3riversarchery.com/polypropylene-target-face-80-cm.html
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From: MichaelArnette
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Date: 04-May-16 |
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Yeah I'd say 250 is above average and you are doing something right if you can do that!
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From: fdp
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Date: 04-May-16 |
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"250 average, sorry but that's a joke" that's a little harsh unless you have shot with the man enough o know it isn't true.
Just because the group you run with can't shoot doesn't mean he can't.
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From: Bowmania
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Date: 04-May-16 |
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I'm with Shawn, "It is sad to say but go to a big shoot and just watch all the shooters, there are very few truly good shots today."
Bowmania
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From: JRW
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Date: 04-May-16 |
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Yes, a 250 average is on the higher end, but who's to say this guy can't shoot that well? One of the things I love about going to large shoots is seeing all the folks no one ever heard of that come out of nowhere and clean people's clocks. I seem to remember a few people calling Matt Potter a BSing backyard shooter...until he showed up at the IBO World and took home the big check.
Let's try encouraging people instead of tearing them down. Just a thought.
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From: Kodiaktd
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Date: 04-May-16 |
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I agree with JRW. There are people out there who are not famous ( and don't want to be famous ) or not even known who could shoot in a match and as JRW said can clean people's clocks. I remember a winter D.A.R.T. league back in the 1990s I was in when this guy signed up for it he was told by an employee that he shouldn't even shoot in it because the employee had some friends shooting in it that had been shooting traditional for a long time and were really good shots. When the league was over the guy cleaned all their clocks. He beat them bad. He won the first place prize and got the DART Master Traditional Shirt for the six week match. The employee assumed the guy was new to traditional archery, when in fact he has shot traditional archery longer than the employee had been alive. Just because other people can't shoot a 250 doesn't mean there isn't someone out their who can. As an old bowhunter use to say to me back in the 1970s. " Talk is cheap in the big woods ". :)
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From: CDumas
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Date: 07-May-16 |
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Well, the placement isn't perfect, but you get the idea.
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From: CDumas
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Date: 07-May-16 |
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NFAA blue target on Bear
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From: CDumas
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Date: 07-May-16 |
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NFAA blue target rings drawn over Bear 8 point zone
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From: DanaC
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Date: 07-May-16 |
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Cynthia, those are *Great* !!
60 shots on a 5-4-3-2-1 target will teach you a lot. If you average 240 that means some 3's and some 5's. Most of which would be kills on a deer - think 'all 8's on a 30 shot 3D match.'
Target shooting is tough because you almost can't help but think of the score instead of focusing on the shot every single time. It's good mental training, learning to shoot each arrow in its turn, putting the ultimate outcome in its place.
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From: GLF
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Date: 07-May-16 |
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Looks more like turning bad shots into something you can say is good cause it's in the kill. I want to be white circle accurate so on real animals if I get off a bad shot it's only 2 or 3 inches off the white and still a good hit. On that target a shot in the 2 ring could be called good cause the kills reaches there when actually its a bad shot, and real bad shot. If a shot in the 2 ring part of the kill is acceptable for hunters what happens when you hit 2 inches right.
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 07-May-16 |
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You asked, so here's my "opinion".
An easy to use, and fairly accurate gauge is a 9" paper plate.
If you can consistently keep 5 arrow ends in that plate from 30 yards, then you're good to go at 30.
If you can only consistently keep 5 arrow ends in that 9" plate at 15 yards, then 15 yards, or less should be the goal for your max distances on hunting shots.
If you insist on using an nfaa indoor blue face for your target:
{{{ The 2 ring plus half the 3 ring is roughly 9". }}}
You need to consistently keep all 5 arrows of your 5 arrow ends inside the 2.5 ring. I don't care if you have a 250 average on the indoor blue face. IF you've got "ANY" arrows outside the 2.5 ring line, you "FAIL" the test.
Again, whatever distance you can do that at, is the distance you should be able to confidently, and ethically hunt from.
None of these gauges/standards mean a darn thing, unless you are honest with yourself when doing them. 8^)
Rick
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 07-May-16 |
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That should have read:
{{{ The 3 ring plus half the 2 ring is roughly 9". }}}
Rick
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 07-May-16 |
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In case I still wasn't getting the point across, anythng outside the red line is a fail.
Rick
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From: Catskills
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Date: 07-May-16 |
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For hunting that looks overly generous
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 07-May-16 |
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[[[ "For hunting that looks overly generous." ]]]
Since there is no requirement, it's a minimum requirement. 8^)
Rick
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From: CDumas
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Date: 07-May-16 |
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Squirrel!
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From: Kodiaktd
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Date: 07-May-16 |
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I like the squirrel target.
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From: Flash
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Date: 07-May-16 |
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Pretty good test Rick, what do you average on a 300 round? My guess from seeing you shoot on here would be 275, if not higher.
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From: bradsmith2010santafe
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Date: 07-May-16 |
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I have noticed, that the more harshly honest I am ,, the closer I choose to shoot,, but I'm old and grumpy,,:) you young whipper snappers pay me no heed,,:):):)
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 07-May-16 |
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Bryan, if I really knuckled down with my hunting rig right now, I might shoot a 260.
There's a big difference in shooting 10, 15, or even 20 arrows just playing around, than shooting 60 arrows seriously. It takes stamina of both mind & body, that I no longer posses.
Most of my hunting stands are setup to give me on average of 15 yard shots.
I'll take shots to 25 yards (sometimes longer) if I feel good about them, but I know it is highly unlikely I will flub one at 15 & under.
Rick
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From: Flash
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Date: 07-May-16 |
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Ha ha Rick, that's a smart way to hunt. Knowing your worst shot is a kill! Still shooting in the 260's with my hunting rig, about 10#s lighter than yours though...270 + with a hunting bow is F'n tough.
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From: ahunter55
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Date: 07-May-16 |
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For you stump shooters & you good 3-D shooters, shoot a 28 Field round & I promise you, you will be humbled (112 arrows total). I shoot em all, 3-D, target, Field & "lots" of bowhunting. Yes, being able to shoot a group in a target does matter. Shooting an 8 on a 3-D is easier than a 4 on a 25 or 30 yard 12" field face. A field round separates the men from the boys so to speak (my opinion). The other outdoor NFAA round is the hunter round (28 targets, 112 arrows & ALL ODD yardages) Black face, white bull.. True, some should never enter the woods to hunt, they will never be a decent shot. People I see at various type tournaments are of all levels of ability. Now, telling me a person who can shoot 250 up to & including a 300 on an indoor 20 yd face won't be able to get it done in the woods, hmmmm, not buying it.. Well, of course we all "react" differently when our quarry walks out, even a top notch stumper.. Consistently hitting & grouping arrows into a target, any target may not make you a better hunter BUT, if you don't get to rattled, they WILL be able to put it where it counts & THAT is what we all strive to do.. Now, since I started archery/bowhunting nearly 20 years b/4 compounds took over, I've seen & done some pretty high scores myself. Though I cheated, I have managed a few 300s with recurve, fingers & a sight not near what is out there today. Hitting a target consistently, will make your chances of killing that animal much better. Those who say, the 1st one is the one that counts.. Sorry, they all count & if you have 1 in the boiler & 2 or 3 in the guts, you need practice..
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From: Bowlim
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Date: 07-May-16 |
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"Could someone explain to me why the ability to place 4 or 6 arrows in succession in the center of a target face is somehow unrelated to hunting accuracy? After over 62 years shooting targets and animals I guess I am still learning about this sport."
It is basically central. The longer you shoot, the more it comes down to target face performance at least in the static disciplines.
The exceptions:
- I do think it can be a weird way to practice for pure instinctive, I don't think the need to hit what you are going for changes at all, but it might not be the best form of practice, If you had two forms of practice, one that integrated stump shooting in a way that didn't require all the walking, which is great but probably not efficient, would an instinctive shooter get better faster from a target face or the stump shooting practice. Where better is measured by successful shots on game. I have no idea, a little hard to prove one way or another. I think pure 20 yd type practice which is what it mostly boils down to as far as shooting is concerned (10 meter air rifle, bullseye, 50 meter position, whatever) tends to create sight shooters over time, which is not a bad thing either, but it may not be the best thing for the person who prefers to shoot instinctive.
- Newbies. New archers get a real kick often out of the freedom of launching arrows using their senses, and they really love the hits they get, and maybe don't feel the misses too badly. That is part of the huge appeal of golf the single most popular sport on earth in terms of people who do it and compete with some kind of certification. But eventually as the learner progresses, they learn how to cheat the pure instinct aspect, it is like that in any sport, you become more technical as you learn and discover new things. So this is a stage for anyone who carries on. Pro golfers always have a yardage number and a ton of other facts to play with.
- Skeet type shooting with a bow, not terribly popular, but I don't see skeet type shooters with shotguns practicing on a target face. I bet it might help a little with feedback on form, but overall it is a different game.
- Of course throughout history archery was a martial art as well as a sport and a means of feeding oneself. Martial shooting has all kinds of aspects we don't see in IBO (I'm a lifetime member) type shoots. Shooting clout, horseback, rapid reloading, pulling heavier armor piercing bows, etc... Target faces are relevant here but mastery of the target face won't be the only skill you require to stay alive. I don't do martial type shooting much, it is in the back of my mind, but it isn't the main thing, but for some people it is.
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From: Flash
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Date: 07-May-16 |
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I recently started shooting field. Yes it will show you real fast how good you are. After shooting field, 20 yards is a chip shot. 80 takes total focus and any mistake is a no score. That same mistake at 20 is easily still a four.
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From: RD in WI
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Date: 08-May-16 |
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Some awesome advice and insight in this thread.
It was a welcome escape from the research paper I am working on at the moment (just after a Saturday midnight).
Very respectfully
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From: Jungle hunter
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Date: 08-May-16 |
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A respectable score with my hunting set-up is a dead bull ! Shooting at a piece of paper is no way to prepare for hunting. Get outside in unfamiliar surroundings and hike and shoot. The more difficult the territory the better. That's western hunting prep 101
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From: fdp
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Date: 08-May-16 |
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"Shooting at a piece of paper is no way to prepare for hunting" and all the other goofy comments like that,then why do you suppose that Art, and Saxton, and Hugh, and Howard, and Fred did it?
That's a completely incorrect statement, and anyone who feels that way has no idea what shooting targets can do for a hunters.
And disparage the benefits and try to discourage others (especially new shooter's) from practicing anything that will increase accuracy, consistency, and confidence, is borderline irresponsible. I don't care if somebody is out in the yard shooting a bow made out of PVC pipe, everything they do can be applied to shooting a "real" bow.
It ANSOLUTELY amazes me how close minded, and uninformed people are when it comes to practicing "traditional" archery. The vitals on most big game animals are much larger than most folks on here even realize. The vitals on a deer are as big as a basketball (and that's being conservative) the vitals on an Elk are nearly as big as a car tire. If you can't shoot indoor targets all winter and summer, then go out and in 2 weeks of stumping be able to judge ranges well enough to make those shots, you really need to be using a range finder and a sighting system.
Sheesh....
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From: M.P.
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Date: 08-May-16 |
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Target shooting is a great way to make sure you are using good form insuring a good shot time after time. It's true that all good target shooters are not good shots in bowhunting situations but there is a great chance that those who are bad target shots are not good bowhunting shooters also. I like to mix up my practice with 3d,and a 300 round from time to time. The other day ,at 30 yards I shot a 218 at a 300 round.I had 2 bad rounds that are score killers but it did show my flaws.It is an eye opener
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From: GLF
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Date: 08-May-16 |
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The whole idea is to become more accurate. Targets/300round will do that better than anything. Then you add walking 2d or 3d courses to convert that accuracy to hunting positions. Plus pick your own shots and forget scoring and make em hunting shots. Between the 2 you should be able to have confidence that anything you draw on is dead. Join an archery club and shoot their course a couple times a week for the 2d or 3d part. People have lost one of the purposes behind a bowhunter joining a club. Not only to meet people but mostly to become an efficient archery I the field. Hat to say it but that's even better practice than stumping. Stumping people will have a close miss n think it's a good shot. A miss is a miss.
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From: GLF
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Date: 08-May-16 |
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that should be efficient archer in the field, sorry
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 08-May-16 |
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Whether it be a target, or an animal:
A bad shot is a bad shot.
An average shot is an average shot.
A good shot is a good shot.
An excellent shot is an excellent shot.
The only difference is the extremity of the consequence.
I live by an old saying I once heard - "Archer first. Bowhunter second."
Rick
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From: fdp
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Date: 08-May-16 |
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"Archer first. Bowhunter second." AGREED Rick.
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From: bradsmith2010santafe
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Date: 08-May-16 |
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when I was developing as a traditional archer, I shot 3 d every weekend and practice during the week,, I shot a couple of indoor leagues a week, and some mornings when I woke up, Mike Price would be in the yard already shooting and I would practice with him,, I have paid my dues for sure, but I still work on my form,, and limit my shots,, its always a work in progress,,:) it just takes more work to get good than most people realize,, but thats the fun part,, work hard and see positive results,,
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From: larryhatfield
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Date: 08-May-16 |
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When I was learning archery I shot York and American rounds, Field at least twice a week, sagebrush archery golf, killed rabbits, pheasants, ducks, geese, elk, deer, and bear and lots of other small game. Still limit out on geese and kill what I want to eat and still shoot all distances up to 100 yards on a permanent range I have at home. Also still see my bow, arrow, the center of the target, the spot on the animal or bird I am shooting, and everything in my periphery. Still shoot small and large arms on an FBI course and a military course I have access to and still am capable of scoring in the top 2%. Remember that with a shotgun you are shooting things within a large pattern. With an arrow you are trying to place an object smaller than some gun calibers in a precise manner. I aim a pistol and rifle and I also aim an arrow. Doesn't interfere with wing shooting birds, killing large and small animals, or hitting a target with some confidence. But, I do not care for the term, trad, or believe you can not know where an arrow is pointed and hit anything much further than the and of your nose.
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From: Crossed Arrows
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Date: 08-May-16 |
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larryhatfield - You have lived a life that very few young sportsmen will ever be able to live and I for one,am grateful for your insight into the various aspects of archery. When I grow up, I want to be like you, Sir.
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From: ahunter55
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Date: 08-May-16 |
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fdp + one.. So true. I shoot all the paper I can & I have been blessed with many bowhunting adventures in the past 60 years of Bowhunting. If you measure success with a kill (I don't personally) I've been that too & I attribute it to "shooting" paper for practice to make sure that 1st & probably only shot true.
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From: Babbling Bob
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Date: 09-May-16 |
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Oneshot, I think that's pretty fair shooting at 30 yards but not great. Don't think there is ever a time that we say "good enough" though, even if you are taking game home. Great is when my coach's wife was alive and shot into the hole of 45rpm records.
Shooting is like drawing in art where there is no shortcut to being very good. Just takes lot's of practice aiming and there is never perfection.
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From: shade mt
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Date: 09-May-16 |
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It really doesn't make sense to separate hunting accuracy and target accuracy. (at least in my mind)
A person that is deadly in the field would surely also be a decent shot on the range.
The yardage is known, you have all the time in the world to shoot, your target is stationary, and unobstructed, and your probably not standing on a 20"x24" platform 16' in the air. And your shooting field points which do not magnify error the way a broadhead can.
Plus I've seen a mature buck, bull elk, and strutting gobbler turn a archery champion into a fumbling school boy.
If Your not shooting well in the backyard, very doubtful it will improve on the mountain.
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From: Elkpacker1
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Date: 09-May-16 |
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30 yards out west, I missed by 20 yards my first shot on elk out west coming from WT country. I swore that bull was 20 yards in front of me but my arrow dropped 20 yards infront of it. It was more like 60. That was then and 30 yards is very common and you should be able to hit a god size cup/saucer on your first shot.
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From: fdp
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Date: 09-May-16 |
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Crossed Arrows X 2.......
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