I saw this on the Raptor Archery website last week and didn't waste much time in snagging it. I think it must be one of the earlier Hi-Speeds ever made by Damon Howatt, and I'm wondering if it might even be one that he made himself. It's still in the mail, so these are the only photos I can offer.

It has woven glass, and a name decal calling it a "Mamba Hi-Speed"--a 58" length, and a 52# draw weight. There are several other indications that it's very early--check out the laminations at tip and grip; not like any other DH that I've seen. Also curious is the very short sight window, and the absence of a weight stamp in the sight window...or at least none that I can see in the photo.

Another unusual feature is the way that the belly glass passes right through the riser...basicaly, the grip is an add-on, and it looks like the dark lamination was added to better weld the grip add-on to the rest of the bow.

I'm very eager to have this one in hand and puzzle out a date for it. Just based on the looks of the lay-up, I would have guessed 1954 or earlier...but the addition of "Hi-Speed" to the name makes me think either 1955 or 1956 for a date. The absence of any bowyer stamp makes me wonder if Damon made it himself.

As I said, I didn't look at this one too long before I was reading off credit card info to the good folks at Raptor. It should arrive tomorrow or Monday, and once it does I'll have lots more photos to share.

Larry Hatfield can tell you if you ask him and show him the right pictures I'll bet.

I should add that the woven glass is on the back, but the belly glass looks to be that paper-faced ivory colored glass that you see on the earlier Howatts.

You did the right thing. If you see something you want. You have to drop the hammer right there. I just picked up a nice 59 Bear Kodiak Special from Raptor. Then I saw two brown leather top four arrow Bear quivers on there for forty dollars a piece. I only wanted one. I went back on the Raptor Archery site in only a couple days. Yup they were both gone. One of those would of looked sweet on that 59. That bow you snagged has very nice lines. Good luck with it.

Runner-- No, I'm not sure of that until I have it in hand. I have had bows with the toxwood, toxhorn and toxplast on them before, and it may well be that one of those materials is used for those very dark laminations. Here is a nice old-timer I used to own, which I believe was made by Tri-State or USAC, that had Miller's Tox-plast on the back and Toxwood on the belly (I believe).

Here's a closer look at the Toxwood on the belly...really a pretty neat product.

Tonto, I know exactly what you mean. I don't let much grass grow when I see something that looks interesting. There's plenty of time to second-guess once it's in my hands, is the way I look at it.

Here's the back of that other old bow; I think Tox-plast is the woven product on it...but now we're getting back waaaay before my time. I know-- we can ask George, LOL!

The reason I said woven glass on the back is that I think I remember reading that Damon Howatt used Frank Eicholtz's "Ultra-Bac" fiberglass on his early bows.

Of course all this is just about making me crazy waiting for the Howatt bow to show up, so I can get a good close look at it

Kerry, I think that you are pretty spot on with your dating. I have three of these and they all pretty much look like yours, minus the wood lambs, and all with the short sight windows. I'm guessing 1954 or 55. Mr. Hatfield will be able to pin point it for you. Very nice bow and they shoot like speed demons. Lance.

Here's the only one I have from that era which Mr. Hatfield thought was from '56-58.

All markings/labels are gone except for the stamp in the window, which is "48".

Glass looks like this on both sides.

I have had a couple of the early Mambas and sure like how they shoot.

I do not pretend to know every bow Damon made when it gets to ones from 1955 or older. and, I have never seen a Howatt bow that age with black leather or caps like that. be interested to see the decal. that will help. my gut tells me that it is pre 1955.

Looks like Ultra-bac to me.

Here are 3 made by Eicholtz.

Number 2

Number 3

Well, the old bow I showed in those pictures was not especially speedy; and the 50# Eicholtz Venus I had really didn't quite match up to more modern bows in terms of cast...though it was still quite nice to shoot. So my guess is that the newer bows have a bit more pep...but that may be as much a function of limb design as it is one of the glass.

The more significant thing to me is something that Fred Andserson told me, which is that the bi-directional weaves will eventually fail because of fibers cutting each other apart...so one shouldn't shoot the old-timers too often.

Especially since many of us are getting to be old-timers.

Well, the Mamba arrived last night, and it's a treasure. Ted at Raptor had mistakenly thought it was a Mamba Hi-Speed because of the 58" length, but in fact it's from well before the Hi-Speed. Here's the decal-- black ink printed on paper, then cut out and varnished onto the upper limb. Notice the #54 written in the lower left corner...could be weight that's intended; or it could be serial.

Here's a look at the riser...I'm wondering if in addition to the maple and black walnut, there isn't also a bit of mahogany in the lay-up?

I don't expect that the feather rest and leather plate are original, but I'm betting the grip leather definitely is...

I think this must be from the days when Damon's neighbor was cutting the grips with that obsidian knife of his.

The bottom of the shipping box still felt a little heavy after I took the bow out, so I gave it one last shake...and a real treasure fell out...

It was a full issue of Archery Magazine from September of 1953, with a marker stapled to the page with a half-page Damon Howatt ad for two 1953 bows: the Combo, at 62"; and this Mamba at 59".

The copy in the ad mentions materials like Ultra-bac (the woven glass on the back) and Toxflight (which I think is the black stuff used for laminations). At the bottom of the page it also mentions Eicholtz's "Glasface", which I think is the bone-colored glass on the belly.

Anyway, one of my questions is answered: this is a 1953 Mamba. The next big question: is it one that Damon Howatt might have made himself? I have to say I'm hopeful that it might be.

Here's a look at the way the bone-colored material is tapered down to nothing, and the black tip lamination is applied over it.

It's interesting to speculate that this construction technique, using the Toxflight (or Toxhorn; not sure which it is) for a tip lam, may have been the inspiration for those famous rosewood tip overlays that came to define the later Howatts.

Also interesting is that in the same 1953 magazine there was an ad taken out by W.L. Miller, the inventor of Toxhorn, Toxhorn Flight (Toxflite), and Toxwood...reminding everyone that he owns the patents, and that he's being ripped off by a lot of people making aldehyde plastics like those he holds the patents on.

the tip details are because Damon was just coming off steaming yew tips and transitioning to recurve bows. he used a Bordens glue on the tips also instead of Urac because he thought it was stronger. those bows were glued on an iron form Damon had made and used hand clamps on the top. he called those first recurves "sweptwing". don't know if Damon built that bow. the Stewart brothers were there at that time frame and while Bill was building presses and some feather machines, his brother T.J. was one of the 2 bowyers in the shop. the other was Jim Hook.

Gosh thats a beautiful bow....

In the ad it says "this bow [Mamba] has made a name for itself in the last couple of years," so I guess that implies at least as early as 1952 when it might have been made.

I did a bit of flight shooting with it today; it managed to hold its own pretty well, even though I was being pretty careful not to overdraw it too far. It pulls 52.5# on my scale at a 29.5" draw; it was landing arrows a few yards past a 1968 Herter's Perfection Sambar that pulls 53.5# for me. The Herter's bow was more than twice as heavy; 1.15# for the Mamba and 2.73# for the Herter's.

The Mamba was very similar in feel and performance to the old Eicholtz Venus I used to have--feather-light, teeny tips, and really easy to get a good grip on and shoot a good line with. I suppose they should feel about the same--virtually the same materials, like the green Ultrabac woven glass here on the Mamba, supplied by Eicholtz.

looking at the tips, I would guess that Jim Hook made that bow. the tips look nice and even and are a little larger than Damons typical tips. The edges on Damons tips usually tipped a bit to one side. he was impatient when working on a bow. that is a great bow. the risers changed to a longer window in later bows and dropped some of the lams. the reddish wood looks like padauk. if it has sort of a "pigskin" look to it, it most likely is. Damon was using that wood very early on.

Here's a shot of just one round of flight shooting today, with three very different bows that are very close in weight. In fairness to the Mamba, I think I was getting slightly longer pulls and a much more dynamic release with the Sambar and the Silver Marauder...'cause I didn't care about breaking either of them, LOL!

And thank you once again for all the great info, Larry-- I think it's a great bow, too!

That is cool!

Ditto, Cool.

Great history as well.

Thanks.

Runner, Why would you think that, seeing as how I wasn't shooting a self-bow to compare them to? I wasn't flight shooting for absolute distance; I was just shooting for comparison. Heavy arrows, feather fletching, finger release, and a slight headwind were all part of the equation in yesterday's outing; who knows how a given selfbow would have performed under the same circumstances?

some of the early ones will shoot with a lot of bows made today. I have tested a lot of them when I was at Howatts. one of the people there had around 9 of the ones from 1953-1961. three of them shot with the hunter model and most were within 10 12 fps.

Well, I should probably come up with a different name than "flight shooting;" the stuff I do is simply comparing cast between bows. I realize that true flight shooting is trying to optimize ALL factors, in order to attain MAXIMUM distance; whereas the shooting I do is simply trying to keep as many factors equal as possible, in an attempt to isolate one bow's performance RELATIVE to another.

If I were to change those cedars to skinny carbons, fletches to mini-vanes, strings to Fast-Flites, finger release to mechanical, and wait for an 80º day with no wind so as not to be shooting against dense colder air blowing in my face, then I'd truly be flight shooting... and the arrows would probably be going 70 yards farther.

I've never tested any of my lam bows against selfbows, but I've tested a ton of them against each other. The early glass bows--Eicholtzes, Wilson Whites, pre-1960 Howatts, Eddings Super-Cast, Smithwick, and one or two that I couldn't even identify-- always seem to cast within ten yards of any newer bow in their weight class. For that matter, the best casting bow I've ever had, pound-for-pound, was a 1962 Howatt Monterey...closely rivaled by several early Brownings and a 1966 Ocala.

Coming back to topic, I'll just say that my experience is that the old woven glass bows can all shoot around 95% as far as the newer ones...and some can do even better than that.

Great thread! Thanks for pointing me to it, Mr.Stix.

Is the Mamba able to achieve keeper status with you, or is it just a case study?

I do this mostly in the name of science and history, LOL, but every so often one of these recurves I'm dating will turn into a long-term relationship. The tragedy of this Mamba is that it really wasn't designed for a 29-1/2" draw...however, I have a good friend in Ottawa who has a 27-1/2" draw and a serious weakness for Howatts...hard to say what might happen down the road! ;-)

It also seems the bow was made in said friend's birth year...whaddya know eh?

In all seriousness that is an important bow from an historical perspective...the construction details are unique and innovative,especially the black tips on the belly not being an overlay but amother different material. Plus how cool is that label? And the way the glass is carried through the centre of the riser with the riser lams over top to fill out the grip. Last but not least is the length...it was much shorter than many of the bows of that period and reflected designing for shorter draws. Larry's assessment of those older bows' performance is spot on. I have a few Howatt's that are pre 1960 and they eat a pile of newer recurves' lunch and perform toe to toe with later Howatt's! These include a 1958 Monterey and a 1956 or '57 Diablo.

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