I hear talk of being able to have a bow made specially for you? Does this exist? Is this true?

He's talking about Bear Archery.

Call and or email them and ask. I'd say that's the most definitive way to find out.

The guys in Evansville say no.

4nolz,

I feel like the answer to a custom bow is "no", unless you have some friends at the factory in Gainesville. Didn't you and some members of another forum go on a tour there a while back? Maybe you guys could pull some strings, lol.

Somewhat unrelated, but whenever I stop by, I am always tempted by the blemish models. My buddy got a Grayling Green Super Kodiak for about 1/3 of MSRP last weekend.

I am another who wished Bear had a custom shop. Well I an'it getting any younger so I am getting on the Vintage Bow Works list. His work is so reminiscent of the Bears from the 59-64 Bears but with your choices for woods.

I ordered this handle w/ a lowered shelf & without compass & inserts.

Did you order it directly or through a Bear dealer?

Is the dealer having the custom work done for the customer? If so that could be a warrantee issue down the road with Bear.

I spoke with Bear this morning and asked them and they told me no custom work.

"No, the work was done by Bear. The bow came in a factory Bear box with all shipping information. I'm pretty sure my dealer dealt directly with Neil Byce, Bear's Operation Manager. I had to wait four months."

Same here ^^^

No compass and no inserts would result in another sale here.

Hopefully Big Jim will see this and let us know what he knows about this. I do recall people requesting bows from the factory with no compass. Not sure that's considered custom by Bear though.

No compass and no bushings would result in LESS work when the bow is built. If you want that crap...then have it installed in the custom shop! I think they have it bass ackwards!

They stopped doing custom tweaks toward the end of last year. I ordered a Black Beauty and wanted it without those !BUTT UGLY! Inserts. I hope the guys at Bear are honing in on this because they !RUINED! a beautiful bow. I got it. I love the way it shoots. Just can't stand to look at it from the outside. I hate it now. I'm buying a Samick....

I don't know why they wouldn't mind skipping 3 steps in a build process?? No bushings and no compass would hardly be considered custom work in my opinion.

I know right?

I would think customer satisfaction would be easy to accomplish by omitting the compass and or bushings on a bow build if that's what a customer wants.I would not want the bushings either.It should be available when you order a bow for sure.Its a no sweat thing.Easily accomplished.

There's a reason they install those bushings...

The bow quiver they make and sell will bolt on the riser then. ;^)

Bear is doing a hell of a job acknowledging its past. To get all bent out of shape over a bushing and a compass is ridiculous. And, if you really knew what you were talking about, you would know that Bear only built a "black beauty" ONE year. It was in 1967 1/2. NONE of the S.K.'s since were ALL black.

I have noticed that Bear has put the decal on the belly side of the Bow now instead of the back where it has always been,see the new S/K.

01archer86, just thought I'd be the first to offer to take that ugly bow off your hands. And I'll even pay shipping!

Oh my goodness... it's like a big day care. I would bet anything that there are very few people here as meticulous about how a bow looks as myself yet inserts or not compass or not wouldn't bother me a bit.

See, Bear is not a custom bow shop nor do they claim to be. They can't win. Complain because you have to wait for your bow. Complain because you can't have it your own special way. There are 100's of people waiting in line for the bows that you are turning down.

They are doing there best to try to get caught up and they have recently adopted a rule of no no no modifications. Not for the little guy, not for the big guy.

When they modify one bow or two or ten, they have to walk each bow through the process and then down to shipping. It's not just a simple task of omitting a step.

Every year I get dozens of people ordering bows only to cancel before there bow comes in leaving me with more bows to sell. This isn't really a problem as I have grown used to it. But none of them understand why they can't get one right now when they want it.

I see threads like this and have to wonder why I even bother.

BigJim

Silkscreens have been on the belly side of the limb since 1972!

What is so tough about SKIPPING steps in the build? Hardly what I call a custom job. And for the price they charge they damn well OUGHT to build it the way the customer wants it. They didn 't have any problem doing that in the 50's and 60's! The problem as I see it, is this new generation of company heads and corporate idiots! With some laziness thrown in!

Well said Big Jim. I used to hear the same thing when I was in the sporting goods business. Folks couldn't understand why they had to wait if they wanted a custom Model 700.

Skipping steps in a build, when you are a mass producer is more difficult then may be realized. That 1 bow, that the steps were skipped on then has to be tracked all the way from the time the order comes in through the remainder of the manufacturing and shipping process to make sure that it gets where it is supposed to go to be sold to the consumer. Doesn't sound complicated until you are the person responsible for that bow...and then 200 others that day.

It's really simple! Don't build ANY bows with bushings and Cracker Jack compasses! Is that simple enough ? If people want those things they can bugger up their own bow! From what I here and see MOST people don't want that stuff. It really ruins the look of their new bows. The worst are the super 48's and the magnums. They look terrible wth 2 big holes 8" apart in the side of the riser. I WAS considering a couple new models mostly as something to compare the old ones to. And I liked the new wood and glass combos and the fact I was seeing them without added holes! Now they've decided that skipping steps is just too confusing ? NO LONGER INTERESTED! Get a clue Bear!

Big Jim, some of us appreciate what you do as a Bear dealer and bowyer, keep it up ;-)

It would be nice to have the choice of a few options, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

Actually SB, I like the compass and bushings. Not 6 or 8 bushings like some of the green stripes had but I'm good with two bushings.

I love my bow. I only vented that one little petpieve that was lurking in the dark side of my brain. I sold a Black Widow to buy this beautiful Bear Super Kodiak and I wouldn't take that Widow back for anything compared to this bow. The bushings aren't that bad. I just hope that one day soon Bear Archery will offer a nicer bow quiver than that old delta... 2 piece maybe... leather top with the Bear logo on it maybe... they've done very well on the rest of their accessory line.

I have an old Bighorn quiver that is very similar to the Delta quiver. Haven't used it in years. If I'm not using older Bear spring arm quivers I like the Great Northern. Light, solid, and carries just the right amount of arrows.

Oh and uh 'stagetek'... Bear Archery themselves are calling this model Super Kodiak the "Black Beauty" and it is a beautiful black bow with some nice rosewood thrown in. If this is the nickname the company has given the bow are you sure you know what YOU'RE talking about?

That lower bushing on the takedown I could live with...my Bear takedown quiver uses a bushing there and a spring arm on top! The rest ...no! And where did the stabizer bushings go? They managed to delete that for no reason! But kept all the rest?

I'm one of the 100s waiting for the box of compasses to run empty and the drill bits to wear out or get misplaced for a few days.

Black stick, it's a Great Northern with the Black Widow logo on it.

Oh gag Phil!.... I didn't notice that! Get out the sandpaper or something!

A lot of folks don't like bushings and some don't like bowquivers mounted their on the side of the riser.

Some don't like to stick a comapass in their riser.They can carry their own compass or a GPS if their lost.

Some act like its a big deal to skip the process of mounting the bushings or compass.I don't think so and its (customer satisfaction) that defines and quides quality control.My Father in law wrote a book on it

If everything else remains the same on the bow other than omitting a compass and or bushings or both I say do it to please the customer who desires it.Its not rocket science.The costumer may very well live with that bow for dacades and hand it down.Everytime they look at it their gonna be like I wish it did not have thise bushings or posibly the compass or both.It should not be like a fast food 2 for 2$ double cheeseburger from McDonalds.Even thier you can say no pickles or katsup please and they make it with only a slight hiccup

These production bows cost as much as many customs and folks work hard for their money and should be able to get what they want within reason.Make em happy for Heavens sake.

Seems the bottom line is that if they can sell everything they make and have a backlog the number of satisfied customers must be pretty high. They will never please everyone and I doubt that is their goal. It wouldn't be mine if I ran that business. My goal would be to build a quality product that sells as fast as I can produce it.

I don't know how many bows they make a day but I would imagine that, while they can surely not put bushings and a compass in a bow from time to time, tracking that bow and making sure the right bow gets to the right person may be time-consuming and challenging. Their model is a production shop selling to dealers, not as a custom shop selling to individuals.

I was thinking of adding a compass to my Predator. I didn't know they were so undesirable? Do they rattle or something? Tedd

Big Jim, Someone should let the guys that work for Bear know they don't do custom at all any more. I just had the guys at Kalamazoo tell me REPEATEDLY to call the custom shop.

I told them I was actively looking for a black maple A. I talked them every day about not being able to find one. Friday night they said "call the custom shop. They'll fix you up." I told them come Sunday morning if the rack is short a bow don't check my booth.

We talked all weekend about it. I almost grabbed the bow Sunday before they came in as joke, but wasn't sure how they'd take it.

No noise. Some folks think they look cheap.

Bear built over 12,000 bows last year and didn't deliver over 85 bows that I had on order for over a year...that's just my order. They have thousands of dealers all over the world.

Every one here assumes that in this day and age of finely tuned computers that everything there is state of the art and all they have to do to keep track of things is press a button and scan a tag but I'm here to tell you that there inventory is even more screwed up than mine and that is saying something.

I don't know anything about their compound side, but I have seen their trad bow production several times and have dealings with it many times. I pick up orders of 50 to 150 bows at a time and they are never right according to the inventory sheet. I open boxes marked patriot and it has an ausable in it. Now things happen to everybody and they are doing the best they can. Last year I bought over 1100 t-shirts on close out and picked them up with a load of bows only to find out they could only find 375 of them....1 month later they came back up on close out and I contracted them again since they had found them.

The guys you speak with at the shows are kind and cordial and trying to please as everyone there would do if they could but they are from the plant building the bows. They don't set the rules and they only do one part of the system. Each person there only does one part of the system. For every custom request, you are asking for each bow to be specially handled by no less than a half a doz people.

A year or two back, they decided that they would omit the compass from the TD's but before this could be implemented, they received such a wall of backlash that they decided to reinstate the compass. So, you may not be able to see this, but not everyone sees things the same way.

So I guess if you are of the mind set that says its got to be your way or the highway.... you set the line in the sand.

In time, if or when they get caught up, this may change. Thanks, BigJim

I'm not a fan of the bushings either...the compass ain't too terrible.

I really think the bushings should be an option, not standard. I also think they should make a stab/acc bushing an option as well.

Bear has come a LONG way in the past few years, so maybe they can come a little further. I'd like to see some zebrawood in the lineup. :)

They could make them an option but they'd raise the price of the bows to make up for what extra they go thru. The bushings are there for the people who want a bow quiver. Those trying to be super trads think they're not traditional. Bushings been on some bows since at least the early 60's to help people with bow quiver because in those "trad" days people knew they were more practical n used em to a large extent. By the late 70's pretty much everyone used em. Bear probably does it so people trying to drill for quivers won't moan and groan when drilling voids their warranty. Bear used to do custom to a small extent but not a lot. Like one year I ordered an 80lb grizzly. Complain too much about no custom and you'll get it with the custom price.

I wanted to say that I like Bear bows!Compass and bushings or not.I have owned many Bear bows over the years.

They have a very nice lineup of bows and some are timeless Classics.Its great that they reintroduced some of these classic Bear bows.I hope that they will offer a few more of their old Grayling Classics in the fusture.I think its awesome that they are made in the USA and make jobs right here at home.

Long live Bear

Look at the official Bear Archery website. Every picture of their traditional bows HIDES THE SIDE WITH THE BUSHINGS!!! The artist who designs the website must know how ugly they are. Two pictures of the Bear Super Kodiak phenolic , but only of the side WITHOUT THE BUSHINGS!!!

In other words, anybody who orders the bow based on the depiction in the Bear website is in for a shock.

PS- Ebay sellers who use the official Bear photos also hide the bushings.

I don't think they try nhide the bushings, they just shot the shelf side of the bow same as every factory always has. if you want a good quiet bow quiver n you have a long draw or even close to long you need those bushings to mount it. The other type mounts make for a short quiver, which leaves long arrows vibrating when you shoot.

Bushings, or compass = deal-breaker, either bow is not a consideration with those items. Part of the appeal of the black super K is it's a drop-dead beautiful bow, a work of art. The bushings just make me cringe...

Black Super Kodiak is $800, that's top dollar in my book. For $800 or thereabouts, you are right at the cost of most customs, and many customs (Wes Wallace for one) cost less and you can have them in whatever configuration you want, in six months.

But I guess if they're selling faster than they can make them, they'd be dumb to change anything.

If you are selling on Ebay and show two pictures, both of the same side, you are hiding the side with the blemishes.

Check it out.

http://issuu.com/escsports/docs/2016beartraditionalcatalog?e=3996523/30727600

Buyer beware!

I didn't mean to start a complaint thread.I don't mind inserts and bushings I'm not that anal about it.My question was more along the lines of one-of-a-kind stuff I had "heard" they were doing.

They aren't.My question is answered.

You didn't think this would be a four post thread did you? :)

Maybe if you started deleting all mine.You're slipping.

It is possible Mike (I've seen it first hand), but you have to already know the right person in order to make it happen (I don't by the way).

Bear's primary focus is just keeping up with their current production.

They might occasionally do a "favor" for a longtime acquaintance, but it's rare and not something that most of us are going to have access to.

Without a complete rebuild of the Trad shop I don't see them EVER getting "caught up" its been 7-8 years! Constant training,turnover etc.Just ain't gonna happen.(good for you Brandon!) :)

I've always said, the problem with capitalism is there's too many choices - Rose Oaks ain't no good, too many choices, how does one decide? Makes my head hurt... Bear has it right (said in Eastern European accent): "Here is bow, no choice, you take!" Much better than having to make any kind of decision. Better yet, I'd like Bear to evolve into the Bow Nazis - "You disrespect us, NO BOW FOR YOU!"

Yep, sometimes there are too many choices.

I always liked the policy that Henry Ford had with his Model T.

He said you could get it in any color you wanted... as long as it was black. :^)

I think that was an excellent policy.

Some of you guys make it sound like they owe you something. Try to order a Ford, or chevy without the logos. Or maybe without a dash. Not going to happen, but oh boy it would save them a step or two and time...I can't believe they won't do that for you. All there other customers are perfectly happy with their bows the way they are, but you won't buy one unless they bend over backwards and kiss your .... They would like to be able to accommodate everyone but they cant. If you can't see that, I guess you don't need a bow. BigJim

Well said Big Jim!!!

I agree Big Jim.

Bull pucky!....it doesn't take extra time and money to skip steps. Leave the crap off ALL of the bows! Save even more time and money! And I drive Dodges...where you can still have them built with the options you want... Just like in the 60's and 70's. In fact I have been driving them since the 60's!

X3 Big Jim

They but in the incerts, probably because of the guys crossing over. JF

The only thing Bear owes anyone is a quality product at an affordable price, which has always been a key factor.

I'm a settler. "LOL" The bushings and compass don't bother me at all. I'm saving up for another Bear Kodiak Takedown right now. It all boils down to if you don't like a product ( any product ) then just don't buy it.

While it is obvious they don't. Maybe they should/could.

It would not completely gum up the works as the trad shop is not fully automated. Hire/promote a guy to be the custom shop. Unique base builds can be glued up by him and inserted into and removed from production at certain steps to do what is common or deleted.

Charge x amount additional for the custom work.

Gun companies do it and make a mint. Some gun companies don't.

Give it a trial period and see if is self sustaining.

If the regular production shop is that far behind, maybe they need more bodies anyhow.

2016.... And they can 't even come close to the production rate of the 60's and. 70's . And this is progress? HA!

I just got a new Pittsley and ordered it with the inserts. Had about 8-10 custom bows without inserts and wondered what I was missing! I can't wait to order a screw in quiver. I'm hoping they are more solid and quiet. I use my quiver a lot while practicing and the strap ons eventually move around when you put the arrows back in.

Consider this, when you complain about your bushings and compass options. in the 80's Bear had up to 40 employees per shift making bows. In 2011 the Traditional team consisted of 17 craftsman. They are backlogged, and struggle to meet production projections as Big Jim pointed out.

Those of you who have been Bear fans in the late 80's should remember that there were only 4 bows offered in the Traditional lineup. That changed to 10 in 1997 and now they offer 12 in 2016. They are headed in the right direction, they are giving you more selection, and bringing back some favorites.

It's easy to sit here and assume leaving some steps out of production would be easy, I'm guilty of it myself. But on the other hand, I don't know what the big picture is right now, or how their production operates. I do know I'm happy with the improvements they have made to the limb profile, and tips on my new 2015 TD. That shows they are making an effort to improve on their product. Bear will never be a custom bow company, and it never was, but consider that the construction process of each Bear Traditional bow is the same as Black Widow, which some call a "Custom" bow company. They let you pick colors and woods etc. But try buying a new Black widow take down for $849, and while you're at it ask them to make you a 68-70" longbow, or a 66" recurve. They just won't do it.

I like Widow and have no fault with them, owned them myself. Bear is making great bows right now, the TD which I have will outperform any of the previous Bear models from the 70's 80's 90's and 2000's and that's just it, people are not aware of the improvements and "assume" nothing has changed. I can tell you that a lot has changed. So instead of bickering and complaining over the aesthetics of a bushing or compass, get your hands on one of these new Bear TD's, Super Kodiak Phenolic, (by the way Bear does not call this model a "Black Beauty") or grab a new 60" 59 and try it. You might be able to live with a brass bushing and compass.

Maybe they could sell a cap screw that would fill the hole if you wanted.

If folks do want cap screws for the bushing, you can buy them at any good hardware store that sells loose hardware. Really easy to get.

It strikes me as odd that if you say you prefer to not have something on a bow you are bashing bear. If you say you don't prefer the cheap leather grips you are bashing bear. If I owned bear I would love the feedback and the fact that people are talking about the product. If bear is having so much difficult making orders or keeping up with their orders they should re structure and fix the problem. Lets be honest here their traditional bows are selling at a faster percentage rate compared to their compounds if the number i see at the shoots is a true reflection. People want Mathews hoyt prime etc in the wheel world and bear in the trad world. Move some folks around and make it happen.

In the official 2016 Bear Traditional catalog, not only do they hide the bushings, they do not even offer a bow quiver to use for these bushings.

Instead, they have only a "traditional" leather pocket quiver and a "traditional" leather back quiver and a "traditional" leather field quiver.

Anybody choosing one without researching forums like this will be surprised when they get the bushings and the CrackerJack prize compass.

I 'm not buying that the new models are faster and better performing than the old ones. Have shot both and seen them both chronographed . As far as Bear changing any limb profiles...especially on the takedown limbs...uh, no . They 're still using the same forms they've always used. If you compare # 1's to # 2's or 3's...yeah there 's a difference there ! They also use some poorly made fastflight material strings on the new ones. Starting in 1970 they actually put Kevlar strings on the Super Kodiak. But they never held up past 1000 shots or so and broke! Put a well made modern fastflight string on a 1970 Super K and it will actually OUTPERFORM today's bow at the same poundage and arrow weight! Fact !'ve seen the numbers! A better product than in the past? Uh, no! If Fred was still around heads would roll!

They aren't hiding the bushings at all. Their catalogs are showing photos of the bows the same way they did since the 50s. While I'm sure that some folks may order a bow from the internet without ever seeing one I have to believe that most buyers either hold one in their hands or see one before they buy one.

It may be a surprise to find bushings on the Super Kodiak but it should be no surprise to anyone to find bushings on the takedown. They've been on takedowns since the late 80's.

One bushing in my 86 greenstripe for the quiver.... Like the one in your photo Phil! Actually they had that one bushing in the lower part of the riser for the bow quiver since the first Kodiak I believe. And it was an installed OPTION on the bows then ! Those old quivers really scratched up the risers though ! That's ALL that held them on ...one bolt and two pointed projections on the quiver that dug into the wood! I still find old bears with that bushing and mangled riser wood from the bolt working loose ! Mostly old Kodiaks.

If Fred were alive, he would make sure you got what you wanted. Period. No compass and no bushings if you wanted it. What a nice riser that would be.

Steve, you're right about the green stripe up to around serial number 6000. Then they put bushings in for everything - four on the side of the riser plus the stabilizer bushing. Don't really care for those bows but more because I don't like the laminated material. They came back to their senses with the reintroduction in the 90s.

I would like to see the stabilizer bushing back - I use it for my quivers - but I guess there are those that wouldn't want to see it.

SB I posted my results, but I'm sorry I'm not buying that a 70 model has the same limb profile or performance. The reduced limb tips, profile, and taper result in a faster limb period. Even if you put a fast flight string on the 70 model.

Here is my 1980s Kodiak Takedown. I bought this bow new from a bow shop that ordered it for me directly from Bear Archery. If my memory serves me right I bought this bow in either late 1985 or early 1986.

I can't remember ( 31 years ago ) if the extra bushings in the riser were an option from Bear Archery that I picked, or if the bow came that way stock because of Bear Archery's Bear Hug Bow Quiver, and Bear Archery's Bear Super-7 Quiver that had a bracket that mounted on the riser like a Kwikee Kwiver bracket. The extra bushing never bothered me because I use Kwikee Kwivers on most of my bows anyway.

Phil, I know what you mean about missing the stabilizer bushing. My 1997 model doesn't have one, my 1984, 1985, and 1996 models all do. I like the option if I want to use the old Bear quiver bracket. I like the laminated wood Phil. :) Specially the laminated wood on my 1997 model. :)

Lmao, if Fred were alive he'd laugh n say, why would you want to throw away all those inventions that use the bushings?? They getting caught on brush?

You look at any vintage bow, pre-1970, and if it's drilled/tapped for a quiver on the side of the riser, value goes way, way down. This is a self-evident truth.

Stabilizer bushing? That would not bother me 1/4 as much as those fugly side bushing. The clean lines of the super k goes by-by when you stick those giant bushings right into the accent stripe.

It just seems LOGICAL to me: sell the bow without inserts, and the owner can get any archery pro shop (or the Bear Dealer from which it was purchased) to install whatever bushings the customer wants for a nominal fee. Or even install the bushings themselves. It's fairly easy and straight-forward to install those bushings; but the reverse is, well, impossible. You get a bow without bushings, you have the option to add them. If you get a bow with bushings, that's it, you're stuck with them.

With the logic Bear is using these days, maybe we can expect them to drill holes in the back of the riser for sights.

"Heck, someone may like it...so let's drill baby drill"

Good heavens. Cabin fever must be really bad. Guys, if you don't like them don't buy them, just move on. Simple as that. I love my 2015 Kodiak TD. What a great bow. Kudos to Bear. :o)

My factory camo (green stripe) has sight bushings,quiver bushings and stab insert.Works for me! I actually added a stab insert on my A last Fall for my green light for hogs.

1971 and 1972 C-risers had sight bushings in them in the 1971 and 1972 year catalogs.

Sorry if bear archery isn't trad enough for the neo trads. Pretty much every recurve manufacturer eventually went to bushings. They can't help if the new age neo trads think its not trad. I always thought the trad movement meant going back to the equipment used in the 50's 60's n 70's. But finally figured it out, it means shooting and using the equipment young people "think" oughta been shot and used back then. Bow makers went to inserts because that's what sold bows before the neo trads tried tellin em what's traditional, lmaooooooo.

Sorry, I just can't imagine them pulling bows from line and have to hand finish them so someone can buy a bow there's a waiting list for. You want custom go buy a custom. You want bear go buy a bear but don't expect them to hand make all their bows without doubling their price.

I wish Bear Archery would install bushings to mount kwikee kwiver brackets on their new takedowns. It would save me from having to do it myself. But since they don't I'll just do it myself. :)

4nolz - where did you get a stabilizer insert?

Phil,

Big Jim's Bow Company sells them.

Big Jim's has them for $2.79

They can be had on fleabay 3 for $5 (Brass)

I have gotten some SS ones before too, I just can't place where right now.

Nothing to do about trad, neotrad, trad police, etc. - simple aesthetics and personal preference. The black super k is a beautiful bow, and I think the inserts detract from this greatly. I'd have the same opinion with a 1959 re-issue, or my Vintage Works bows, or a blacktail, or a deluxe Rose Oak bow with pierce points.

Now, inserts on a Bear take-down? Fine with that. Inserts on a Tradtech? Sure. Any metal-riser Hoyt? Absolutely. Even a "Grayling-Green" super k, I'm fine with the bushings. A Win&Win target bow with carbon/foam limbs and a carbon-fiber riser? YES! YES!YES! All great bows, ALL ARE EQUALLY TRAD TO ME. But if you have that big sexy expanse of jet-black phenolic, gloss finish, with those sharp accent stripes plunging down and disappearing into the fadeouts, classic beauty!!! Marring that gorgeous surface with a bunch of brass inserts is just plain sinful.

As I said in my previous post, Bear would be crazy to change anything, as they're selling everything they make - but I reserve the right to gripe and complain about anything and everything! Really, it can even be argued that the constant bitching and moaning on this site, and other trad sites, had some influence on the current direction of Bear Archery and their return to trad archery prominence.

Back in the day Bear made and sold a lot of bows, bows that were used mostly as a hunting tool. It got banged up, scratched, and even painted without much thought. Along came the Compound craze. Bear knew they could cash in on this craze so they started making compounds. Fred was a very wise salesman. He made what he knew customers wanted. In this day and age, a lot of us trad guys look at bows as artwork. We want a good looking bow. That's why there's more custom bowyers now then ever. So, if Fred were alive today and knew he would sell a lot more bows if customers were given an option on bushings, etc., What do you think he would do?

Fred was a smart man, the answer should be obvious.

It doesn't have to be looked at as custom or something special for a particular customer that you are going to have to track through the manufacturing and shipping process each time. Just consider them as to different SKUs. Bow with bushings and compass is SKU #12345, bow without bushings and compass is SKU #5432, and you make a production run of 500 bows without the bushings/compass (or whatever demand dictates) and stock them separately. Plus you can sell the non-bushing/compass bows for the same price and skip several productions steps. So now lets say Big Jim or any other retailer estimates that about 1/3 of his customers would prefer to have their bow clean without the bushings and compass. They just place an order with Bear for 100 SKU #54321 and 200 SKU #12345. Sounds like there would be a pretty big demand for non-bushing bows, but customers just settle since there is no option, or worse yet for Bear, they decide to forgo the purchase all together.

And just by the feel of this thread, I'm guessing more customers would prefer no bushings than with. Although Bear's Marketing folks may have done their homework and determined I'm dead wrong.

All I know is that offering the choice doesn't have to be that big a deal. Bear carries what? 10-12 different traditional bow models? So now you double that to 20-24 to accommodate the non-bushing models. Good gosh, companies carry thousands upon thousands of SKUs and keep them straight, not a big deal.

I totally agree with Burnsie.

"Bushings? We don't need no stinking bushings!"

Here is the left side of my Vintage Works 1962, all black phenolic riser, awesome gloss finish - does here anyone really think this bow would be improved with a couple of big, fugly brass bushings? If you answered 'yes' to that question, then in response, I say (in a fey voice) "BARBARIAN!"

Beautiful!

Dave that is one beautiful bow. I wouldn't even take that bow in the woods. I'd be to scared of scratching it.

The phenolic riser bow on the cover of the 1969 Bear catalog proudly shows the unblemished coin side of the bow.

Bear had nothing to hide, and they didn't have a clue what a "neotrad" or a "trad" was!

Vintage Works has got it down - they deserve to use a Bear coin. The new Bear Archery could always stick a barometer or altimeter in the missing hole.

I shot and hunted with Bear Takedowns for years. Bought several through the old Traditional Bowhunter Magazine classifieds years ago before the World Wide Web existed and became flooded with experts. Eventually sold them off and moved onto other bows, keeping only one that I bought from Bill Krenz when he worked for Bear. Over the last couple of years I got the Bear itch back and in my opinion the new Takedowns are the best shooters Bear has ever made. If you don't like the compass and bushings stop bitching about it and don't buy one, it's your lose for being so closed minded. The first A and B risers Bear made in the 70's had a quiver insert in it with a big ugly screw that looked a lot worse than the inserts they put in them now. Hats off to Bear for doing it right with their traditional lineup of bows.

One offs....meh.

BTW, the Phenolic Super Kodiak in the 2014 and 2015 Catalogs (the EXP catalog bow) isn't hiding any bushings...because it doesn't have any!

Golden trout, that bow is very beautiful, just think how gorgeous it would be with a nice set of bushings..I can see them now. I'd even install them for you for free seeing as how they must have forgotten too....

Sorry Vintage works, but I couldn't help myself. Hang around this thread long enough and a guy starts to develop mental disorders. BigJim.

Oh,oh,oh maybe there's room for a compass too. I have those and we wouldn't want trout to lose his way.

That's bogus! ...An all Phenolic '62 ? Couldn't you have requested green plywood or something ? ;)

This thread has gone beyond funny and I can see it broken down into two factions of which each are split into two more sub groups.

Faction 1 - Custom shop, sub group A, Bear can't do custom work, sub group B Bear can do custom. We all know Bear can do custom work it's a matter of will, and will people pay the extra for a custom shop.

Faction 2 - sub group A, bows are works of art and must be totally appealing. Sub group B, bows are tools. Whatever makes the tool more useable is just fine.

And for all of you that say Fred bear would be rolling in his grave think about these two things. One - Bear did make custom bows "back in the day," I've seen bows customized by Bear. There may not have been a special custom shop but they did do customization. I'm sure it was for a fee. Two - picture Fred out a hunting and look at his walking stick......er, I mean bow. ;-)

Big Jim, thanks for your generous offer to destroy my bow at no charge, I'll have to pass though. Ironically, I'm now more inclined to buy my next bow from you - kind of like animal rescue, we need to get perfectly good and beautiful bows away from maniacs with a dremel tool and a basket full of cracker-jack compasses!

Oh, and in case anyone was curious as to what a compass actually looks like, below I have pictured my Brunton pocket transit. This is an actual compass - I actually use this professionally to locate myself in the field, and take strike and dip of geologic features (bedding, jointing, fault shear zones, etc.), plus I can get slope angles and in a pinch I can use it as a level and figure out my elevation if I have a known point in the field. And, MOST IMPORTANTLY, I CAN CORRECT THIS COMPASS FOR DECLINATION! Can you adjust for declination with the cracker-jack compass in the Bear handle? (Serious question, I don't know).

Although, recently I've been getting lazy and bought a RINO 650... maybe we should just start putting a GPS in our bows?

I say again:

It doesn't have to be looked at as custom work or something special done for a particular customer that you are going to have to track through the manufacturing and shipping process each time. Just consider them as two different SKUs. Bow with bushings and compass is SKU #12345, bow without bushings and compass is SKU #54321, then you make a production run of 500 bows without the bushings/compass (or whatever demand dictates) and stock them separately. Plus you can sell the non- bushing/compass bows for the same price and skip several productions steps.

So, now lets say Big Jim or any other retailer estimates that about 1/3 of his customers would prefer to have their bow clean without the bushings and compass (I'm guessing it's the other way around, 2/3, 3/4...?). Then they just place an order with Bear for 100 SKU #54321 and 200 SKU #12345. Sounds like there would be a pretty big demand for non-bushing bows, but customers are just settling since there is no option,- or worse yet for Bear, they decide to forgo the purchase all together.

All I know is that offering the choice doesn't have to be that big a deal for Bear or the retailers. Bear carries what? 10-12 different traditional bow models? So now you double that to 20- 24 to accommodate the non-bushing models. Good gosh, companies carry thousands upon thousands of SKUs and keep them straight, not a big deal. I hope someone from Bear reads this thread. A thread that generates this much conversation would suggest there is probably something to it.

If we are keeping track, count me as one that would prefer a Bear Takedown without the bushings and compass. I certainly understand where BigJim and the rest are coming from though. No big deal either way for me.

When I got mine I wanted the compass on it mostly for nostalgia reasons. Honestly it is a cheap dollar store compass and I need to tap it to make it work though. I like the bushings for the quiver when I am hunting.

The compass and bushings don't bother me either way. But the compass in the Bear Takedowns are for show ( decoration only ) in my opinion. They are cheap and most I have ever had like them didn't work. I sure wouldn't bet my life on one. I always carry the compass I carried for the eight years I served in the Army.

Burnsie, it may be less of a deal to Bear than it is to the archery dealers, especially small ones.

"I 'm not buying that the new models are faster and better performing than the old ones. Have shot both and seen them both chronographed"

Then you are miss informed. I have a total of ten Bear T/D's at the house right now, along with a chronograph, and the new limbs are faster, quieter and less shocky that the older limbs with the big blocky limb tips.

I like the inserts as I use a delta quiver and also like the compass. I just came back from a week in the swamps chasing hogs and referred to the compass in my riser often. Yeah, I had a good compass in my pack but the one on the riser sure is handy to check periodically. I'm one of the guys that causes Big Jim his back log.

We're settlers son, we settle for bushings and compasses in our bows. That's just how it is.

I already used that one Burmsie. "LOL"

The only bows I hate are the ones that make me look fat. "LOL"

Yes you did Kodiaktd, I need to pay more attention.

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