Got some great advice from Big Jim ,a few years ago, at ATAR about hand shock. All bows have some hand shock as it is the reaction of the tension going off on release of the arrow. What eases the felt hand shock is tillering, weight of bow, weight of arrow, and draw weight of bow. Had shot a bunch of longbows with a lot of shock. Hummingbird , and Morrison longbows have almost no felt shock. These are 3 piece longbows and these bowyer's tillering and the bow mass probable do this. Most of the custom longbows have little shock. Have had several archers ask about this and sure there are more experienced shooters that may be able to state this better. It is a simple thing but some archers are confused about it. Thanks, Roy

I have experienced a few bows over the years with hand shock too much for my liking. one was a hybrid longbow, the other an older 70's recurve with a low stretch modern string.

straight-end bows are not something I care for either.

I agree that tillering and mass weight are big factors. like you, the 3 piece longbows shoot really well for me.

many write about the need to change your grip style or arm position with certain bow designs in order to reduce the felt handshock. this may be true but, I prefer a bow that allows me to grip it the way I want.

I have never found arrow weight to a factor.

Handshock is a measure of the bows inefficiency. The more energy left in the bow after the arrow leaves, the less went into the arrow.

Excess tip weight and light arrows are the biggest contributors to hand shock.

There are a number of other things that contribute to handshock as well. Brace height can be VERY influential, hand position and how you grip the bow are also contributor's. Handshock is energy all bows have it as you said.

Hand shock is caused more by bow design than anything else , tiller ,brace ht. etc. would be in that particular bow to eliminate it or reduce it. A D shaped of bow design will have more shock than a reflex deflex .

Limb timing is everything. Just consider a 60# bow with limbs coming forward and not reaching the same loose position. Add a stretchy string and it is exacerbated. I think heavier arrows can absorb more energy, but they also use more energy and likely any gain is moot. They can make a bow quieter, but the bow will be relatively quiet if tuned well and with a good tiller/limb timing.

My experience shows also that the modern low stretch material works similar to the old linen. Little stretch allows for less vibration on the loose and a friendlier bow. That said, not all low stretch is created equal, nor are all strings made the same. I think time spent tuning a bow well...including and maybe mostly including proper brace height, will bring you a bow that has little if any so-called hand shock.

I learned what I did about hand shock from building several hundred various styles of bows. What I learned prior to building bows hasn't translated well at all.

Yep, inefficiency.

Poor limb timing relative to the archer's holds creates inefficiency and is a big contributor to handshock. The farther it is from optimum, the more recoil will be felt. Add heavy tips, or other overbuilt design features, light arrows, heavy draw weight, improper tiller for the design, etc.... and handshock gets worse.

People shoot handguns all the time that smack them in the hand a lot harder than any bow ever could...being annoyed by hand shock is a mental thing

DDave

Its expected from a hand gun, not a bow. I believe that's where the difference lies.

Hand shock may not effect your shot, but it gets dang old in the hand after a few dozen shots. I don't finish a bow if it has too much for me, I find the issue and fix it before it every gets sealed.

I would guess most hand shock felt is due to operator error.

I find Pearl Drums explanation to be correct for me. Yes also if limbs come to rest at same time. Good tiller!!!! No excessive mass from mid limb to tip!!!! Built lots of selfbows ! They won't lie about hand shock !!! Lol Arvin

All I'll say is I've shot 3 LB's that hurt my elbow and rattled my fillings, every one of them have strong following here.

Last time I posted about them I got beat up so bad I won't do it again.

Shoot before ya buy...how many times has that been said?

also consider some individuals seem to be more sensitive to percieved handshock.

Pearly and Gorge are right on. You can take the same bow design and two different bows. Add heavy tips and light arrows and limbs out of time . They need to stop at exactly the same time (hit brace together when released. Do this and one bow will have little if any perceptible shock and the other will knock your socks off. Reading the thread on factory bows and custom bows I think how many of these things are neglected by not only a factory atmosphere with poor quality control but also by some custom bowyers that do not understand even the basics.

God bless, Steve

JUST ASKING, would a bow with a larger riser and heavier overall bow weight help reduce felt handshock compared to a smaller riser and lighter overall bow weight? Thanks Joey

Barber, somethings mask shock, other design elements remove shock. Shooting flight with primitive bows and extremely light arrows under 200 grains, the handle and risers are very small and the limbs don't weigh much yet they have no shock at all because they are efficient. I have seen extremely well tillered looking bows that would break your wrist the shock was so bad.

I guess each boyer finds his own way to eliminate shock but I have found that low string angles at brace help a lot as you might see in a d/r bow. I have also found that full working limbs with arc of the circle tillers tend to be more shocky. The whole idea is to have the arrow remove the energy from the limbs before it hits brace. Limbs are not supposed to "slam home" as is often heard.

"Hand shock" is when I rub my hand along the still warm soft fur of the animal I just recovered within 50 yards of the shot....

One thing about getting old and the bones hurting. It makes a difference.

God bless, Steve

I am not an expert and my finding is anecdotal. That said, I recently purchased a '53 kodiak. The first time that I shot it with a ten grain/lb. arrow the string hit my bow arm, shocked my hand and shot to the left. I added .5" to the brace height and shot a longer twelve grain/lb arrow and the string did not hit my arm, hand shock was reduced almost entirely and, most importantly, the bow now shoots where I'm looking. Big bucks beware. God Bless, Martin

when you shoot a pistol you get recoil. when you hit a railroad track with a stick you get hand shok and it stings your hand. that's what happened when I first shot my 68inch long bow. per advice found on a leatherwall thread I got a ff string and cranked up the brace. it likes gt ultralites now....ron

Most recurves I've shot over my lifetime have little or no hand shock at all with the exception of the solid glass 45# bow I had as a 15 year old. This changed however a few weeks ago when I shot a Bear Polar 48#. Although a beautiful bow I haven't experienced that much hand shock shooting a straight limbed longbow. My friend Hatrick builds string follow longbows and they are very easy on the hand shock, just a little thump.

Riser weight helps, but if the tillering is off [both limbs stop at different times] you need to put it back on the rack. OPINION; Black Widow makes one of the best recurves-- but never liked their longbows. Have some friends that love them. Never shot a Hill type longbow that I would have and also have some friends that really love their Hills. That is why there are so many different types of bows. Don't yell at me-- just an opinion, Roy

Has anyone ever measured hand shock? Someone could set up test equipment, get data and have some real numbers to argue about! Results possibly could aid in bow design and performance.

Do the fades have anything to do with this as well? Plus some say the bow has handhock when its not really because its just a thump.

Grip position can have a remarkable effect on hand shock. I had a short recurve horse bow that has notable handshock when gripped high. But there's almost none when using a low grip. In fact it's one of the sweetest shooting bow with the correct grip.

J-archer, that's because changing how we hold the bow moves the fulcrum under the bow hand and can greatly change relative limb strength, which alters their 'timing'.

JohnDoc, I agree with you. I would not be hard to measure. You could also track how tuning a a bow with grip etc changed it.

Somebody very famous said, probably right after the apple fell on his head, that every action (arrow being shot forward) has an equal and opposite reaction (felt shock backward). Arrow or bullet doesn't matter.

We are not going to change that.

Everyone perceives it differently. Every bow has it to some degree.

To cut down on hand shock...

The proper design for the wood is important. I make self-bows. Limbs that are too heavy for the poundage and draw length can be problematic. So a knot filled bow or a bow with lots of non working limb may be problematic.

Limb timing. This is the one with most of the disagreements. Limbs slamming home at different times means the thump is felt twice.

When I've wanted to get a little more cast I've streamlined the last several inches of each limb. I have not noticed shock effects changing.

Jawge

How does one determine limb timing? Is it assumed that if the tiller is even on both limbs that the timing at the end of limb travel is automatic? Or is there some way of a tuly testing it? I am interested in selfbow application.

Great question Benstick54. I have always heard about limb timing but have never heard how to test or determine if they are actually in time.

Limb timing is relative to how and where we grip the handle and string, so no, a given profile at brace doesn't necessarily translate out to even limb strain at full draw. Add to that the fact that selfbows can often have disparities between the limbs... say unbraced one is straight and the other is reflexed a little? How should it look at brace to extrapolate even limb strain at full draw?

The best way I know to critique them is to replicate your holds on bow and string on your tillering tree (rope and pulley system), draw a vertical line on the wall to replicate perfect nock travel perpendicular to the handle, draw the bow on the tree, and watch to see whether the nock point follows the line as the bow is drawn. The nock will pull toward the relatively stronger limb.

I have my tillering tree made so that it is easily adjustable to accommodate different holds.

Another 'tree method' is to have the bow cradle made so that it is free to rotate or tip to the side if one limb is stronger than the other. It will tip down on the strong side.

Others are ok checking relative limb strain by feel and/or by taking a picture at full draw and then studying the picture to see if it appears to be drawing evenly, but I don't find this specific/critical enough... especially if there are disparities as mentioned above.... neither are these techniques as effective at early detection.

While using my tree set up to mimic the archer's holds, I begin checking relative limb timing the first time the bow is put on the tree. IMO, the earlier in the tillering the limbs are balanced, the less set is induced, the easier it is to hit target weight, and the more straightforward the whole process is. The more precisely the limbs are dynamically balanced, the more inherently tuned and forgiving the bow will be.

A bit of a mystery at times as I changed grip covering from smooth leather to seude and for some reason it increased perceived hand shock.Possably the grip doesn't move after the shot now and there is no slipping in the hand. OSR

If I wanted to design a bow with a lot of hand-shock, it would have limbs with a lot of reflex right off the a very short short riser section and extending to big and heavy nock tips. I would use heavy woods in the core like purpleheart or Osage and light woods in the riser like myrtle or juniper.

If you are "DeathGripping" the Bow You will feel more of the Vibration anyway. I have Howard Hills That You don't feel Anything , but I have shot other ones that do ,granted I shoot Balanced Heavy Shafts spined and Weighed/Matched for that Bow. So many folks try and add weight to the front and it negates spine basically dry shooting the bow and thats what you feel in excess shock or poor limb performance which is a misnomer as if its tillered correctly and evenly it will draw smoothly without stacking it will release that energy evenly ( as long as you release properly ) because its simple physics .

If you are "DeathGripping" the Bow You will feel more of the Vibration anyway. I have Howard Hills That You don't feel Anything , but I have shot other ones that do ,granted I shoot Balanced Heavy Shafts spined and Weighed/Matched for that Bow. So many folks try and add weight to the front and it negates spine basically dry shooting the bow and thats what you feel in excess shock or poor limb performance which is a misnomer as if its tillered correctly and evenly it will draw smoothly without stacking it will release that energy evenly ( as long as you release properly ) because its simple physics .

You can also draw it in front of a mirror and watch as you letdown. Also, when I draw and let down I can sense by how even the handle pressure is if the limbs are timed. Jawge

After about 2 dozen shots I just dont notice it................

Jeff, so basically limb timing is actually even limb strain at full draw. This being the case I can assume the rate both limbs will return to brace upon release will be the same?

Looking for a longbow with no hand shock? I have 3 such bows, Sixby's Frontier 66 longbows.

I don't get the handshock, even with Hill type bows. I use a very loose grip and when that shock hits the bows in between leaving my hand and stopping against my fingers. I guess what I'm saying it when the shock hits I'm not holding the bow. Or if it bothers you that much use a sling and open hand. OOps that wouldn't be trad huh. Since they only been around longer than any of us. j/k

I think the point is that a bow should not have handshock regardless of the way you hold it or the arrow weight you use. A well designed bow can have a very light handle section and shoot very light arrows with any grip you want to use and not have handshock. Too much bending limb is the biggest cause of shock I have been able to identify. Limbs that are real well tillered and tend to uncoil as they release will also be smoother shooters.

badger is right on. my "factory" longbows are loud when shot with a 6 strand string, super light arrows, and a low, low brace height, but they have no hand shock. they do put an arrow down range because the design is very effecient. so are the self bows that badger makes and shoots. design is the prominent factor when you suject bows to the abuse we do shooting flight.

The string has a lot to do with it too. I can take the best shooting, smoothest longbow and put the wrong string on it and make it have hand shock. I can take the bow the worst hand shock you can imagine and reduce it with the proper string.

Nock fit and arrow weight also come to mind. Too often a shooter shoots a bow a few times, racks it, and never touches it again because of hand shock when it's so simple to correct.

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