I’m sure there are lots of folks on this forum that have more experience refinishing bows than I do. But I’ve been at it since the early 80s, have refinished over 100 bows and have tried most everything under the sun. My background came from furniture finishing/refinishing and carried over to bows. I think my circumstances are similar to most folks here in that I do not do this professionally for customers, I don’t have a sprayer, no dedicated paint room/booth and, since I spray outdoors, I’m at the mercy of the weather.

Without a sprayer there are limited options for finishes - rattle can, wipe on or brush on. All will work, none are ideal. If you are particular as I am, each brings limitations. Rattle cans, and I’ve used a lot of different types including Spray Max 2K (a two-part finish), auto clear coat, Deft, Polycrylic, Helmsman Spar, Varathane and others, are almost impossible to apply without getting orange peel like in the attached photo. Some are worse than others. This requires a lot of wet sanding and, many times, leads to the problem of sanding through a light layer of finish and getting a “burn mark” or an area that is gray and looks terrible on black glass or on figured wood.

My “standard” approach has been to remove the old finish, thoroughly prepare the bow, apply multiple coats of a new finish, wet sand with progressively finer grits up to 2000 and polish with auto clearcoat swirl remover. It is time consuming but leads to a very high gloss finish, which is the look I want.

Recently I’ve been experimenting with a new approach that I’ll outline in following posts.

Many folks like Tru-Oil and I’ve used it a lot on guns and on bows. But Tru Oil on fresh wood requires numerous coats - up to 10 - to build up the finish. I could use a sealer first but my experience with them hadn’t been all that great. Multiple coats of Tru Oil will put an amber color on white glass.

For the past few months I’ve been doing things differently. I still scrape/sand the old finish off and sand with progressively finer grits up to 400 to prepare the bow. Then I apply a spray finish. It doesn’t really matter much to me which one, although I’ve moved away from auto clearcoat because when it is scratched it shows white. It’s not hard to repair but other finishes don’t cause that problem. Lately I’ve been using Deft because of the quick drying time. Other finishes work as well. I apply several light coats waiting about 30 minutes between coats. I let it dry thoroughly for a couple of days then wet sand with 600 or, if the orange peel is deep, 400 grit paper until I have a completely smooth finish. Then I apply Tru Oil. Usually no more than three coats are needed allowing a day between coats. I rub the bow with 0000 Steel wool between coats.

I'm anxiously awaiting this!!!

An advantage to Tru Oil is that it levels - it flows to eliminate wiping marks - which is something that spray cans do not do well. After the final coat I polish with clearcoat swirl remover. This bow was not finished with Tru Oil but shows the polish I use.

If you really want a beautiful finish you can wet sand the final coat of Tru Oil with 2000 grit paper and then polish. The result will rival anything you can get from any finish short of a sprayed two-part finish. This still requires lots of work and time but compared to the process I used to use this one is much faster. I’m very pleased with the results.

You're right. That's a great approach. I do the same thing, but I use Minwax wipe-on polyurethane for the final 2-3 coats. My only complaint is durability. I find that Minwax poly scratches easily.

How does the tru-oil hold up?

Very nice!

I use rottenstone for the polishing at the end. It will give a deep gloss without the wet look and also removes any dust particles. However it does take quite a bit of time to complete, but if you want your bow to have a fine professional look then that is what it takes.

Tru Oil hold up pretty well. Scratches can be easily repaired. Nothing I've used is as durable as a sprayed on two-part finish.

Rottenstone works very well. It's old school and I'd bet that most folks under 40 haven't heard of it. Auto painters used rubbing compound and polish, furniture workers used pumice and rottenstone. I still use it at times - applied with a piece of felt and boiled linseed oil.

That is great info! Thank you!

I asked for rottenstone at several paint stores ten years or so ago. I got blank looks at each one (even after explaining it). I finally found some at Brownell's Gunsmithing supply. I think they still carry it. Thanks for the information Phil. That bow looks great! - John

Wow, Nice

Phil is that tru oil on the browning? I just refinished a gun stock with it and was pleased with the results. In the past I have used spar varnishes but the tru oil dried faster and produced a fine finish.

KyPhil - it is Tru Oil on the Browning. Over a base coat of Deft.

Some good information here, thanks.

Wow! Very interesting and it looks great.

Wow, that K-Mag looks awesome. What a beautiful bow.

Great job Phil!

You do nice work, Phil.

Nice. I have used 0000 steel wool to clean the bow up before applying multiple coats of tru-oil, using steel wool between coats. After the final coat of tru-oil I will generally create a satin finish by using 0000 steel wool saturated with linseed oil to rub down the finish. Makes a real smooth satin finish. On hunting bows, after all of that is dry I will spray the bow (except for the grip area) with krylon clear matte spray to kill the glare.

Mr. Phil, what Deft finish is that? I am familiar with the Deft Laq. only. I use Tru-oil to finish the bamboo fly rods I make. Your method may make my finishing job easier. Thank you for sharing

I'm using Deft Clear Wood Finish - High Gloss. It is a lacquer. It works fine putting Tru Oil over top but not the other way around.

Fine valve grinding compound works wells, as a rubbing compound, too.

Nice Phil! I just do happen to be finishing a bow! I'll be posting pics here in a couple days. Nicely done!

Looking forward to the pics Dale.

Here's one more done this way - a Tice & Watts Spartan Hunter.

I stumbled onto a variation of Phil's method for one bow by accident (and incompetence!).

I was using Helmsman Spar Urethane to spray the finish. I'd done one bow this way nicely before. This time I wasn't satisfied with the final look, so I sanded back a bit and finished up with Tru-Oil. Bingo.

I am a spray klutz, and have decided to stick with just Tru-Oil for the while. I don't mind the multiple coats, for I'm never in a hurry on this type of project.

Birchwood Casey's FAQ on their website mentions to let the Tru-Oil cure for at least a week before using their Stock-Sheen, and a month before using Rottenstone.

I didn't know this early on, and did the rottenstone rub on a bow just a couple of days after the final Tru-Oil application. It looked fine ... but later bows that I gave the longer wait indeed looked better after the rub.

I'm rude, though, and bend the FAQ rule. However, I wait at least two weeks for the rottenstone or pumice rub. If a close sniff with my nose can't smell the Tru-Oil after a couple of weeks, I figure it's good to go. If there's any smell ... it ain't completely cured.

Here are some sources for rottenstone and pumice. You can buy kits or individually.

http://www.constantines.com/rubbingandpolishingkit.aspx

http://woodworker.com/rottenstone-mssu-849-839.asp?search=rottenstone&searchmode=2

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/rottenstone1lb.aspx

You can also use Birchwood Casey's Stock Sheen, which is an excellent one-bottle rubbing mixture designed to be used with Tru-Oil. Stock Sheen will give a muted, glowing, satin finish and is very easy to use.

Mirror, mirror, on the 'wall. Nice!

Thanks Phil, I am starting a Spey rod and this info will be very helpful. I got my eyes on some Steelhead Trout fishing this year or next spring for sure. About the cure times, I was instructed that most poly based varnishes take a good month to cure. Then do the rub out. We seem to have our favorite ways but new ideas are always welcome.

Nice finish Phil, I'll have to give it a try. I have several to experiment on. Jeff F

They are too pretty and I would scream if it got a scratch, so the first thing I do to my bows is scratch that gloss off. To afraid of glare scaring the deer. you did a better then New job though. r-man

I was wondering what the secret was to creating the amber white glass look... thank you Phil

That is a beautiful job!!! I love those high gloss bows! Wow! Good info!!!

Thin Man, you are so right about not being in a hurry. One bow I used auto clear coat on and recoated it too soon. I thought the finish was dry but it wasn't fully cured. A few weeks later I put a quiver on the bow and it dented the finish because the original layer never hardened. Had to strip it and refinish the bow.

This is not something that can be rushed.

Hal, Helmsman Spar Varnish will turn white glass Amber faster than Tru Oil.

Great thread! Gives me some new guidance for an upcoming project..a tigerwood "Black-tip" 1969 KMag.

mangonboat, I have one one of those that I'm working on too. I need to sand the spray finish I put on and apply Tru Oil. Bought it because I wanted to try shooting left handed but gave up on that. I have a couple more righties to finish first. Wasn't able to spray for so long that things got kind of backed up.

Two questions for Phil Magistro:

In order to get a satin finish, you would rub the Tru Oil down with steel wool? Or ???

In your experience, how much does the Tru Oil yellow (or "amber" as the finish manufacturers say) over time?

I get the least orange peel with Minwax satin polyurethane, but after a few years the amount of ambering is startling - making the bow look like an antique. Minwax urethane ambers much less, but it gives me the most orange peel.

Thanks for your many contributions to the work of refinishing.

Beautifully done! I'd like to refinish my Drake, as moisture gets under the old, worn away finish.

Joe

Dan, I haven't noticed a change over time but the truth is I only have a couple of bows that I've kept for more than a few years. I usually get them, refinish them, shoot them, sell them and start the process all over. What I have seen is a change in the white color with progressively more coats.

When I want a satin finish I never use steel wool. I either use rubbing compound or 1500 grit wet sanding. Steel wool puts too many small scratches in the finish for me. With rubbing compound or 1500 paper I can bring the shine back in a few minutes if I want.

Beautifull work phil.

Thank You Phil you give me hope!!!

I appreciate the kind responses here. I've been at this a long time but still have a lot to learn. I enjoy sharing what I know and learning from others. I'm also looking forward to seeing more refinished bow photos.

Yep...great thread. Thanks Phil. I'm going to use the same finish on some arrows I'm giving away, time consuming, but they should be beautiful and the finish should be durable.

Phil I just got done refinishing a selfbow, I use an approach similar to yours except my base coats are done with the Massey finish. I now put on 3-4 coats of the Massey finish substituting denatured alcohol for the acetone then after a light sanding of any spots that I want to smooth out apply tru oil 2-3 coats and makes for one tough finish. Nice looking job by the way.

Hi Phil what is your approach to rosewood specifacly Brazillian on refinishing, do you seal it and wetsand between coats or what is it that works for you. Enjoy this thread Bob W.

Brazilian Rosewood offers challenges because of the pores in the grain. I have used water-based sealer and did not like the results because the wood turned splotchy where the sealer was better absorbed in some areas more than others. Most times I build up the underlying finish with multiple coats - wet sanding between coats - until the pores are filled. I apply three or four coats, wait a couple of days to wet sand and repeat that three times. Some risers take that much to cover.

You could try - and I may do this one sometime - using a epoxy (similar to a Massey finish) or super glue as a sealer/base coat to cover the pores. Sand it smooth without removing all the finish and add more layers of the same or other products.

I'm refinishing 3 bows right now. A 69 SK, a locally made recurve and a Damon Howatt High Speed.

Phil, Brazilian rosewood. I have used epoxy finish on some of the more porous woods. I thin it down and apply with a foam brush. 7 coats 1 hour between coats, let dry 3-4 days. Then sand 320 400 grit. And reapply a few more. Repeat until your happy. Keep mixed epoxy in freezer between coats. Then you could put your finish on. Jeff F

That sounds god to me. Will have to give it a try.

Good, not God. :)

I seal with multiple coats of 3000 lb epoxy thinned with acetone. Do that until the pores are completely filled. Rosewood, Mac ebony and bocate will still bleed oil through and your finish will not set up so I coat over the epoxy with Loctite Professional. I ususally do a couple of coats of this . Very lightly sand with 400. Look for any spots where I might have sanded through and put a little more on those until I can find no more. Then apply the Tru Oil . Tru oil can be a super high gloss or you can very lightly steel wool it with a five ooooo steel wool and buff with a soft cotton cloth and then with a sheep skin wool and final with some lemon Pledge. Very similar to what Phil is using. I like this better than any other finish and have used it for many years.

God bless, Steve

I use MAS epoxy and phenolic microballoons to fill the grain in porous woods. Mix up a little epoxy and add the powdered microballoons, then mix to the consistency of thick syrup. I use a piece of thick rubber, one inch square as a squeegee. Let cure over night, sand with 220, and re-apply if necessary. When all looks right, I then apply 2-3 coats of the MAS epoxy. I let each set up to the consistency of masking tape stickiness, then apply the next coat using a foam brush. Don't worry about brush marks or imperfections......you will sand all these out later. After the epoxy has cured, 1-2 days, I sand with 220, 320, or 400 being careful not to sand into the wood. If I do, I'll put on a bit more epoxy to cover the bare spot. The riser is now totally sealed in epoxy and no pores show. I just apply a dab of epoxy to those trouble spots or still-open pores and sand again. I then use a magnifying glass and a good light source to check for imperfections, and apply small dabs of epoxy if necessary. I also seal the edges if the limbs in the same manner. Time to ink the poundage, my name, and the bow's serial number with India ink. Then I brush on two or 3 heavy coats of Thunderbird bow finish, let cure for a few days, and wet sand, polish, and buff to whatever finish I desire. This is my routine for the bows I build. It may be too involved for someone with less patience or lots of bows to re-finish, but it works for me. Richard

Sounds very thorough and time consuming but there is no benefit to rushing this work. A professional refinisher would likely have a complete setup to deal with the things that are issues for the do-it-yourselfer.

Sixby, Next time I do a porous wood rise I will definitely try the thinned epoxy and see how it works for me.

Phil I apply it with a cotton ball. You just hit it one time and don't go back and go over it. I believe you will like it. I just finished a Gamemaster Jet with it and it looks awesome.

God bless, Steve

Thanks Steve.

Can I ask how you remove the old finish. I have an old Bear that belonged To my father that I'd like to redo.

Depending on what type of finish it is I scrape or sand. Many times I do a combination of the two - scrape and lightly sand to show me where the finish needs to be taken off. I prefer scraping because I can control how much material I remove. Sometimes with sanding that's a bit more difficult.

I mainly use a utility knife blade, sometimes an old pocket knife. I sand with 150 or 320, depending on if I want to remove the finish with sandpaper or if I just want to show the remaining finish.

I use an old planer blade to start sometimes a pen knife and a single edged razor blade. Depends on each situation.

Here is a Gamemaster Jet I just refinished. Epoxy mixed with acetone . several coats and then Tru Oil and final rub out with 5 00000 Steel wool.

God bless, Steve

Beautiful bow. I just finished one last week myself. I started it before you mentioned acetone/epoxy mix. I went for the high gloss. Multiple coats of the two-part finish Spray Max 2K, wet sanded and three coats of Tru Oil.

Phil, how do you apply Tru-oil ? I've been told paper coffee filters work, but didn't work for me. I've used my finger, but there must be a better way.

I have been fairly successful with a variant on Phil's approach. I sand the bow progressively through 12000 grit wet sand cloth. At that point the bow is virtually polished but unfinished. I then apply CA (crazy glue) with a finger protected with a cut off Nitrile finger tip until the entire bow is covered. Let dry overnight and lightly sand the entire bow with 400 grit until I almost remove the CA. This is done 8-10 times depending on the nature of the wood's oil content. Once finished and dry I then apply a coat Tru-oil over the entire bow, let dry overnight and lightly rub with 4"0" steel wool. This is repeated for a minimum of 8 times (or more) depending on the gloss finish desired. Once the last Tru-oil applications is completed and the finish checked under a bright light for any unevenness, I buff hard and fast with a cotton cloth and finish with an application of Carnuba Wax and more cotton cloth rubbing/buffing. I have used this method on a glass laminated Recurve kit bow that I completed and on a honey locust self bow that I just completed. The finishes are truly impressive and durable and easily touched up if necessary. Interestingly the tru-oil also adheres very nicely to the glass laminations and does not discolor them.

stagetek, I use a small piece of soft cotton cloth.

i think i am gonna try that method on a few of my bows ,thanx for the info

Phil do you take the finish off of the limbs the same way? Or do you leave most of the finish on the limbs if in pretty good shape? If not and only took riser to bare wood do you fill nicks in limbs with super glue then sand down and start coating? some spray coating on bare wood and some on only slightly sanded limbs? then apply the tru-oil multiple coats after that?

I only remove the finish when it's too bad to save. If there are scratches I'll sand them out if possible but try to keep from going through to the glass. You can fill nicks in the limbs but that may end up showing through the final finish. If you want to try that, a satin finish hides those marks better than gloss.

If I take the finish off the riser I'll seal it with something - I use multiple coats of a new finish but you can you shellac, wood sealer, super glue..., then put a couple of coats of a new finish on and top off with Tru Oil.

I just finished refinishing a bow that I had obtained second hand. The bow is fairly new (made in Dec 2014) and when I received it the seller, I noticed that the finish on the back of the limbs had some bubbles under it. In researching this particular bow, I found a post on another archery site where the bowyer had said he had experimented with finishes on this particular bow and it had many layers of Thunderbird on it.

It was okay with me since I had always wanted to give refinishing a bow a try. So I scrapped the parts of the finish that were bubbled up and then sanded the rest with 320 grit. Since this was my first time trying this I just went with a simple finish of Minwax wipe on poly. 3 coats and hit it with 0000 steel wool in between coats. I think it turned out pretty nice.

I was a bit scared because I did not want to affect the weight of the bow at all and so did not want to sand into the glass. So I only gave it a light sanding and a good clean with acetone before applying the poly.

My question is this: Is there a way to be sure that I am not sanding into the glass?

Thanks!

Steve

Thanks Riverwolf.

meatCKR, after you've done a few it gets easy to tell when you're through the finish and into the glass. If you're sanding the finish dust is white, the black glass is gray. If you look at the limb in the right light you can quickly tell if you're through or not. When there's bubbles or horizontal lines in the finish you'll have to take all the finish off to get past them.

When I sand off bubbles or cracks in just certain areas I build up the finish on those spots before I do the rest of the limb or riser. I apply new finish to the spot, sand it when dry and repeat until it blends into the existing finish.

Thanks Phil for trying everything out and letting us know what works and the best way to get these bows looking beautiful again. Bob

do you use Deft sanding sealer or the finish lacquer in clear coat? have you tried the sanding sealer?

Finish lacquer. I've used other sanding sealers but not Deft's brand. The problem I've had with using sealers on refinished bows is that the previous finish may have soaked into the wood a bit more hear and there impacting how the sealer is absorbed. That has caused splotches in the new finish for me. It's not like working with new, unfinished wood where sealers work much better.

ok thanks Phil

Seems as though most of the fellas posting here are going for a 'Gloss' finish. I know the bow looks great in gloss but it does not work in the field while hunting, as I have found out more than once. I have refinished 3 or 4 bows to flat with Thunderbird Epoxy by spraying it on, utilizing 3 to 4 coats reapplied about 3 hours apart after preparing the bow properly. Thunderbird epoxy mixture will stay liquid apply-able for up to 12/14 hours in a covered glass container between spray applications. Just clean spray gun nozzle,etc after every application. Allow to cure dry for several days before use. No spooked game from glare now!

You're right about most of the discussion here being about gloss finish. I believe for many of us that is reminiscent of bows from the time we began bowhunting. High gloss finish was the norm back then. Nothing wrong with flat or satin. Many people like that and, on some bows, I prefer it too. Black Widow bows are a good example. They just look better in satin to me.

I have been told that gloss is a harder finish than satin. And it's easy to knock off the shine from a gloss finish.

Personally,I kind of like the orange peel look,gives the finish a more textured look.

the higher the gloss the harder the finish however if you like the real frost look to your hi gloss finishes just finish off with 2000 grit wet/dry paper that gives the total frost look for hunting but can still be polished at a later date for showen off old bows at 3d's bd

I can understand why some like the orange peel look but to me it is a sign of a "hurry up" finish job. I have seen many, many pics of custom bows guys believe are the greatest thing since sliced bread. But I see un filled grain and orange peel finish which turns me off to the bow and bowyer. To each his own I guess.

Hey Phil another question, do you hang the bow by the tips for spraying and the wipe on finish? and any particular way that's better than another for hanging? ok I guess 3 questions, does humidity have to below a particular point to spray on the finish? I would think you might want a lower humidity.

I do hang the bow by the tips. And I turn it upside down on each coat. I've tried several things for hanging and have settled on a piece of electrical wire. I strip one wire out of either 12 or 14 romex and use it.

Humidity can screw things up but not having a paint booth means I can't wait for the perfect day. I spray outside my basement door in a spot that I seal off with drop cloths and bring the bow in the basement, where the humidity is controlled, to dry.

This thread has so much good information, I'm definitely saving it.

I'm still a hobbyist without a proper shop but finish work has always fascinated me. There's nothing better than a good high gloss finish like in old Bears and Brownings... except maybe a real french polished yew longbow.

Sorry Phil guess I got one more, when do you reapply the serial number, amo, and weight of a bow when you scrape it off? Before the tru-oil is applied?

No need to be sorry. These are good questions and I can learn better ways from others too. I try to not take off the original writing but when I so I usually spray a light coat of finish like auto clear coat where the writing goes. After it dries I put the writing on the bow and cover with another spray coat before I do any other finishes. I feather the edges by wetsanding with 600 grit before I put on additional coats of finish.

If I use Deft for the bow I use that for the base layer for the writing. Deft cannot be put on over auto clear coat.

One thing I do is to take a photo of the writing with my phone so I can see exactly where it was on the bow.

WONDERFUL thread Phil!

I've become a HUGE Birchwood Casey Tru oil fan and second everythign I've just read here on it!

Here's a Colt Hi-Power I refinished last fall and the link to the re-finish along:

http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/TF/lw/thread2.cfm? threadid=264277&category=88#3706594

How does one Save a thread like this, just copy the URL to your Favorites.

Excellent thread, Phil and everyone else.

Phil do you "de-whisker" your new or unfinished risers before starting the coating process?

I do. Several times in fact.

When I do a gunstock and de whisker it I end up with "pores" for lack of a better term. That in turn requires a stock filler. How do you deal with that?

And, great thread.

To save this thread ,click on "add to favorites" under the title on this page.

Phil, you've always had my respect, and now I respect you as a bow finisher, one of the aspects of bow construction and reconstruction that exposes us more than others, and either allows us to shine... or... not so much.

I don't offer finishing praise willy-nilly, I'm a critical s.o.b., and exceptionally critical about bow finishes, but you've obviously paid your dues and it appears you do top shelf work. Congrats. Keep it up my friend.

Thanks Jeff. I appreciate it.

Penny, a lot of the woods used in bows have open grain. Rosewood is a good example. I've tried sealers but don't like them. Now I just build up the finish slowly using multiple costs and emery sanding between.

Re: gloss finish is harder than satin or semi-gl

I've read that a number of times, but I've recently read several places - one I think was the Minwax website - that it ain't so. ??????

I wish I'd found this thread before I started the refinish on my 1964 Bear Kodiak. The bow is turning out well but I could have attained a better finish after all is said and done. I still haven't completed the final coats and I have picked up some pointers here. GREAT THREAD!!!!

TTT

One thing to keep in mind while refinishing is that most hunters don't want the bright shiny look of a new piece of high gloss furniture. All of the bows here look amazing but while talking with the people at Thunderbird Epoxy their biggest seller is the satin and not the gloss. I prefer the gloss as it tends to make the richness in the woods pop. I do like Tru Oil as it is very forgiving and seems to be self leveling but there are some very nice clear coats that can be sprayed on if you have the shop, sprayer, ventilation, respirator etc. I also did have a well known collector/ hunter say he wanted his refinished vintage bows to look like a vintage bow and not a piece of art.

If you have already registered, please

sign in now

For new registrations

Click Here