From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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Last night as I was getting ready for some distance shooting on the golf course, I had just finished stringing up these two bows I was comparing, both of them early 60's sweeties. I happened to notice how similar their limbs looked, so I got a pillow and propped them up side-by-side with their strings dead level...
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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So here they are, arrow shelves aligned and both strings in exactly the same plane, with the Drake in the foreground...
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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Here's what the upper limbs look like...
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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And here are the lower limbs... pretty uncanny how close they are to the same profile, with the Howatt having just a teeny bit more hook on the curve than the Drake. I bet at full draw the match gets even closer to identical, because the Drake has those reverse tapers in the tips making them stiffer.
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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Anyway, I thought that was neat. I've said before that a handful of guys seemed to have limb design and speed just about figured out by 1962 or so.. and Damon Howatt and Harry Drake got these two pretty close to the same, at least in profile.
As for the distance results, the Drake was a bit over 8 pounds heavier, and averaged 247 yards with 500-gr. aluminum arrows and 200 yd. with 525-gr. woodies.
The Monterey averaged 229 yd. with the aluminums, and 187 yd. with the woodies. I have to believe that if I had been shooting 10 gpp arrows with each bow, the Monterey would have prevailed quite handily.
I will note in closing that this Monterey is very close in draw weight to a certain Deathmaster in Minnesota. I figure there's a strong chance that it would out-perform it in a face-off... and an even stronger chance that said Deathmaster won't even make it off the wall this spring, despite promises to the contrary!
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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Oh, there's one other thing to show. Here's the altitude angle jig that I made up. My stepson holds this with the torpedo level's bubble centered, so the upper triangle is showing a pretty exact 45º angle. He sights across that edge as I draw and aim the bow, and tells me when my arrow is exactly parallel to it.
The piece of cardboard below it is indicating a 37º angle, and I shot one whole round using that as my altitude. There was no significant difference in distance as a result, although the longest shot of the night came from that second round at a lower angle.
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From: Frisky
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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If you think that poor Howatt or the saber can beat a Deathmaster- HAHAHAHEEHAW!!!!!! Bring it on baby! Bring it on!
Joe
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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But it already has, because it has actually gotten outdoors and launched arrows for a known distance. 229 yards is considerably more than zero, heheh.
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From: Catskills
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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C'mon Frisky, dust that green thing off and shoot it !
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From: Frisky
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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The green thing is the Drake. That too will smoke a poor Howatt.
Joe
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From: jaz5833
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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Talk is cheap........very cheap.
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From: recurve40
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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Yah..damn Howatts suck....wow....
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From: Frisky
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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I remember the first time I shot my Howatt Hunter. I heard it was a fast bow and was happy it marginally outperformed my Bear 76er. Then, I got a Deathmaster!
Joe
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From: Pdiddly
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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Come on Joe...lofty claims and hyperbole do not trump real results!
You were going to reveal the Deathmaster's prowess to all in March but that ship had sailed. It was a tough month but the ground is now bare in Southern Minnesota and the time had come for the "Legend of the North" to toe the line and whistle some arrows into the air.
Until that happens we can only assume that you own the "Holy Snail" and the "Slow as Death-Master," given the lack of any proof at all.
Kerry's shooting arrows...you're shooting something else! ;>)
All that needs to be done is for the competitors to construct identical arrows and then you and your naysayers can finally engage in a national "Battle of the Bows."
Heck, maybe I can get involved with a couple of my bows, including the cherry and rosewood Hi-Speed you labelled a "dog" and make it an international event!
The ball's in your court Frisky!!
Pete
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From: Pdiddly
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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Substitute "has" for "had" for both instances in the second paragraph.
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From: Oldbowyer
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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What was it Clint Eastwood said in that one movie "you going to pull those bows, or just whistle Dixie" or something like that. LOL.
None of the 54" bows I'm working on came out to 45#, but have a 43# out of the pile. I'll spot the Drake a couple pounds and come play!
Do like the inlay work though in the Drake, that's a pretty bow crookedstix
Old
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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Shoot us a picture of that 54" bow of yours, Oldbowyer; I'd like to see what you've made... especially up around the tip end. I'm still trying to learn what makes these things tick in terms of speed and handling. I had a 54" Hunter-Flight that was 55#, and that was harder to draw and hold steady than this 60# one I have now. My hat is off to anyone who makes a short bow that has the whole package of looks and performance and "shootability".
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From: Pdiddly
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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Where's Frisky???
He's commented on every other thread today but seems to be studiously avoiding this one. One has to wonder???
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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Look for Frisky behind the curtain, over in Oz, Minnesota.
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From: Frisky
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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I'm back. I just took a little time off to make a salad for the herbivores who are coming to visit. There's nothing more boring than talking to herbivores.
Oh yes, I'll be shooting the Deathmaster soon. I have to pull a Crookedstix and sneak into a city park to do it. I got prepared to shoot at my brother's place and then he shot the idea down, afraid the farmer might see me walk into his field and get mad. There was less than one chance in a thousand that could happen, but I complied.
Joe
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From: Oldbowyer
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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Excuses, excuses, Frisky
Here is a shot of one of the 54's crookedstix that I have finished. it does not show the tips well. I'll get you a better one tomorrow. Its a full working recurve.
Aw hell it ain't dark yet. Tell you what crookedstix. I'll go string it up, get you some better pictures for you.
Take care, Old
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From: Pdiddly
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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My goodness, there he is! Out from behind the curtain...speaking to the masses.
I'm glad there's finally hope Joe...keep us posted. We need to determine the projectiles.
Don't give up on the farm. You just need to be able to run faster than the farmer, or your brother, like crookedstix advice to me.
I need to find a big field too...there's a huge one in downtown Ottawa right in front of a very tall tower with a clock in it I was considering!!
However methinks the droves of Mounties gathered nearby might take exception to someone conducting a scientific experiment utilizing fast moving pointy things falling from the sky at indeterminable distances.
I'll expand my search to more rural environs...
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From: Frisky
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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Yes, stay out of the cities. The park I'm looking at is on the edge of town. It was farmland that was converted to soccer fields and disc golf. If I go when school is in session, I might find nobody around. I'll hide the bows and arrows in a trash bag and test just two bows each trip out.
Joe
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From: Oldbowyer
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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As promised here is a couple of shots of one of the finished 54's. This one is at brace
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From: Oldbowyer
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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This one is at 30" of draw. I pulled a full FDC on this bow and it has been posted else where. But from 26" to 30" it has a 2ppi gain.
if y'all care to take a look at it the whole bow is posted under the thread one down...two to go
Take care crookedstix, Old
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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Oh, of course-- I read that thread! Duhhh...good thing my body still works; the mind is going fast.
Those 54's from your dad's form are pieces of work. I'd also love to know the weight of the bow. I think a 2# riser is a great place to start, and I have a 60" Pearson Mustang that goes 2 lb. 9 oz.-- and my 2013 Bob Lee is an ounce heavier than that even.
That 2#/inch from 26 to 30 sounds like it's amazingly stack-free, especially given the bow's length. You better be careful or people will start sending you orders for more of them!
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From: Oldbowyer
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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Well did not know if you did or not. Just wanted to make sure you could see the whole bow if you hadn't. My body is the only thing that works, my mind is shot! LOL The bow is 40#@28".
I love the way you have delved into flight testing the bows. Good old, old school! IMHO the reason you did not see much difference in your 2 angles is called a parabolic curve. I know what it is but can't explain it well. But the basics of it is that your arrow will drop faster as the energy leaves the shaft. Bullets do the same thing. Its the gravity thing, Newton and all that stuff. LMAO
I've not opened the shop back up yet. Still have things I'm working on. But the form is done. The 3 bows are the last out of it. She's back on the shelf with the rest of Dads forms.
This has been a great walk with Dad and his bow form. I've learned a lot of things building them. My only regret is not to have finished that riser of his while he still with us.
Take care Crooked, Old
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 20-Apr-15 |
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Pdiddly-- I think I know that "archery range" you're talking about! I think you should go for it-- they've converted the old downtown jail into a very nice hostel now, so your new home won't be so bad...
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From: Pdiddly
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Date: 20-Apr-15 |
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That's the spot crookedstix!!! It's in the background under that Peace Tower!
I could go down at lunch and get some help from the tourists when measuring distances and for crowd control.
I mean you folks had a postal worker landing an airplane on the White House lawn...Canada would have one flight shooting on Parliament Hill!!
The talk of the jail is a wee bit sobering so I still think I'll look for a less crowded spot.
In all seriousness the spot you took this very well composed picture from is less than a five minute walk from my office and my former digs when I lived in Ottawa. My fiancée and I often walk along here (The Rideau Canal) at lunch.
I look forward to seeing you here one day.
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From: Frisky
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Date: 20-Apr-15 |
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Any good fishing in that canal?
Joe
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 20-Apr-15 |
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Somehow I don't think Phil will buy that this is an archery range, so I think I'll end this thread... but I will say that Ottawa is a beautiful city; I prowled all along the Rideau Locks and then down along the big river. You've got a great place for your lunchtime walks... er, I mean roves!
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From: Pdiddly
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Date: 21-Apr-15 |
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There are fish in the canal Joe (saw an enormous musky caught and released) but more in the adjacent Rideau River. The Ottawa River has a ton of fish of all descriptions.
Kerry's first picture is about 500 yards from where the Rideau Canal connects to the Ottawa River.
The Canal is a UNESCO Heritage Site.
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From: Frisky
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Date: 21-Apr-15 |
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I was thinking pike/muskie.
Joe
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