From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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So it's off the the local links with me! Here's my launching pad-- the fairway just in front of the green on Hole # 1, far from the prying eyes of the greenskeeper. Nice view of Penobscot Bay from here...
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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Generally speaking, I have the course to myself once the bad man in the golf cart punches out at 5:00 PM.
Aerating the fairways is a necessary task each year; they do it themselves so I can't see any reason not to help them. In another week or so this place will be swarming with golfers, which will complicate the flight shooting... so it's now or never.
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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I was shooting two kinds of arrows from each bow: some 500-grain aluminum 2117's from Wal-Mart, and some 525-grain Port Orford cedars from David Ellenbogen.
Here's what I got for 10-shot average results, in yards, with the aluminums:
Drake 235.5, Ocala 220, Monterey 219, Bob Lee 218, Explorer 216, Safari 216, FireDrake 205.
The results with woodies:
Drake 199, Ocala 188, Bob Lee 182, Monterey 178, Safari 178, Firedrake 175.
When you crunch the numbers and compare the various draw weights to their respective distances, it begins to get interesting... for instance, that Safari just plain has a ton of cast for a 49# bow that was made 50 years ago.
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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Mud season. Lakes aren't safe, and fields are too muddy... only one place to go...
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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It's a sickness, these old bows...
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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I've gotten some dandys over the winter, and with the arrival of the new Drake I just had to launch a few... and see how these old beauties compared to one another.
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From: badger
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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I have been trying to figure a way to sneak onto my local golf course at night. One of the flight records that impresses me the most is the 50# broadhead record, 330 yards with a 450 grain arrow. I have gotten out over 230 yards with 500 grain broadheads on my wood bows. Sure is fun when you aint supposed to be doing it .
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From: RonsPlc
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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I have heard that some of the courses around here hold archery golf tourneys at times... Still looking for the adverts for them, sounds like fun to me.
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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It's a short season, for sure. To make matters worse, at this time of year the water hazards tend to be full of mallards and Canada geese...mmmmm, duck....
I know what I'm doing isn't really flight shooting; it's just comparing bows for cast. But it intrigues me that the old 49# Safari throws a 500-grain arrow 4.4 yd./pound of draw weight,as does the old 46# FireDrake; while the 62# Drake manages 3.9 yd./pound. The 59.5# Bob Lee, which is a fine, fine bow that was made brand new in 2013, averages just under 3.7 yd./pound of draw.
I'm shooting Dacron on everything by the way, even the new bow. The Safari's longest shot with the 500-gr. aluminum arrows was 224 yd.; I want to play with that one a bit more and see what it can do with an arrow that's less than 10 gpp.
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From: badger
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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Try a skinny fastfligth sting, an elevated rest and 4" plastic vane on your 450 grain arrows. That would be a good comparison to current broadhead rues. You would pick up considerable yardage.
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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Here's a closer look at that Safari-- which I've terrorized with the rasp by the way; it was way too high-wristed for me when I got it. It's marked at 48#, but my scale has it at 46.5# at 28" and 49# at my draw. Supposedly they only began making these in 1966, but check out the serial number on this one. In fact, I've seen a 60" Safari II that appeared to be a 1964 bow.
That whole time period when Gordon Glass transitioned to Browning, say late 1963 to early 1965, is very hard to follow... but they sure made some spectacular bows. The Gordon Royal Hunters, the first Nomads, the Apollos and Dianas, even the Medallions-- you can see Harry Drake's hand in all of them, though as Skookum has pointed out before, Jack Bice at Gordon Glass was a very fine bowyer in his own right, and for that matter Wilson White and Frank Eicholtz were practically right next door.
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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Badger, Do people in that broadhead flight category arrange a two-bladed broadhead vertically so they can overdraw it to the limit of the arrow shelf?
I've also noticed something going on that you referred to in a past thread, which is that the way the string comes off the fingers can make a big variation from one shot to the next. Truth be told, I don't see myself ever being the type or having the skills to become a true flight shooter-- the thoughts of barrel-tapering arrows, making special strings, and risking a broken bow on every shot are all quite intimidating to me. But... several of my nefarious cronies on Leatherwall and I have been feeling the need for a "sport flight" sort of category, so that some apples-to-apples comparisons can be made between bows-- using any old bow that you bring to the shoot. I followed your recent thread on making flight more accessible with great interest.
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From: badger
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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Stick, the class you would be shooting with that bow in broadhead would be a standard commercially made hunting arrow. The broadhead is set so it cannot be drawn past the back of the bow. When we weigh the bow we use the longest arrow and draw it till where the blade hits the back of the bow. It has to be at or below the weight class at this point. Now if you were shooting that bow in the regular flight classes you would still use a commercial arrow but the bow would be weighed at the point it fell off the rest.
Only the conventional flight bows are using the tiny tapered arrows you hear of. The priitive classes and the modern longbows both use wood arrows and we normally taper the to get the weight down as much as we can while preserving enough spine. I am not sure how much the regular flight arrows weigh for a field class recurve but they are commercialy produced arrows.
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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Wow, in that case I would agree with you-- 330 yards with a wood-shafted broadhead from a 50# bow is quite amazing. I'll PM you with additional thoughts and questions, and thanks for the details so far.
I can't help but think of the parallels to drag racing here. When I was a kid my Dad loved to take the family car (a 1969 GTO) to the drag strip once or twice a year. There were plenty of "unlimited" rigs there-- funny cars, hot rods, pro stocks, modified stock, etc.-- but there was also a category called "pure stock," and it was ordinary production line vehicles that raced in it. Furthermore, depending on your weight-to-power ratio, you would be given a time handicap, so that (in theory) a VW beetle could actually wind up racing against a Corvette in an apples-to-apples way. There were plenty of family cars, like ours, to be seen there each week, and it really helped grow the sport.
It would be great to somehow have an equivalent "pure stock" way to shoot production bows against each other for distance, apples-to-apples, when people come together at a trad shoot.
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From: Frisky
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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Great thread!
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From: badger
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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Recurves will usually be shooting carbon arrows. Only longbows and primitive have to shoot wood arrows.
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From: Pdiddly
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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Sneaking around a golf course...firing arrows into the air...my oh my!
Sounds like my childhood.
Seems like you never grew up!
Neither did I! Can I come next time?
You need a lookout!!
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From: badger
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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All primitive broadheads weight 500 grains regartdless of weight class, all recurve broadheads weigh 450 grains and all longbow broadheads weight 550 grains.
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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Peter, As long as you can outrun a guy in a golf cart you can come... in fact, as long as I can outrun you it will still work out Okay.
I returned to the scene of the crime today, as criminals always do. I took some 486-grain aluminums to shoot out of the 49# Safari-- that's pretty darn close to 10 gpp. I also grabbed a couple of 465-grain Forgewoods just for fun.
I took the little Explorer (51.5#) as well, to see how that new Dacron string from Stilldub worked with it. The air was nice and still when I got there, and once again I had the place to myself.
The Safari averaged about 232 yd. with the aluminums and about 213 yd. with the Forgewoods. The Explorer had the extra 2.5# of draw, but averaged 224 yd. with the aluminums and 211 yd. with the Forgewoods. Advantage: Safari.
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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By the way, it certainly pays to have a bow scale if you want to play around with this stuff. If I trusted what's written on the bows, I'd think the Safari was a 48# bow and the Explorer a 45# bow, and I'd think the Explorer was such a rocket launcher.
BUT... just the opposite is true. At my 29-1/4" draw, the Safari pulls 49# and the Explorer 51.5# (I suppose because I'm finding the stack in the shorter bow).
The other takeaway is that tiny tips rule. The photo doesn't really do them justice, the Safari actually has significantly thinner, pointier, and smaller overall tips than the Explorer-- which I had already reduced quite a bit.
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From: larryhatfield
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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how times have changed! back in the fifties we used to challenge the golf pro's to a contest. we shot arrows and shot a 3" ball out of a tilted hoop to hole out and they played regular golf. we never lost a match. i shoot sometimes now at a driving range that has a 500 yard marker. the owner has no problems with it. actually draws customers that try to drive balls farther than my arrows.
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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It would be pretty fun to be standing on a tee waving a bow, and yelling "Fore!" at some guys out in the fairway. I might stick a bow in my bag the next time I go golfing, just to see what kind of reaction that gets... I bet they'd let me play through.
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 18-Apr-15 |
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Here's a much better shot of the difference in tips... the 1974 Explorer on the left vs. the 1965 Safari on the right.
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From: Shafted
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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Crooked, try your interesting past time in southern Maine (Cumberland or York County), and the left wing wackos would call the SWAT team on you. "Officer.... that man has a weapon! He might kill a cat! Officer... do something.... why isn't that against the law"???? :) Seriously.... they WOULD call and complain. Be happy you don't live at this end of the State, its been over run by entitlement seekers and do-gooders who want to raise taxes to pass out additional "entitlements"... and they seek to ban guns, bows and all hunting.
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From: Carolinabob on iphon
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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Just make sure there are no "stealth" golfers out. Even a near miss will probably land you in jail.
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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One of the fairways has a kind of blind corner on it; I might need to get a dogleg Kodiak for that one...
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From: hawkeye in PA
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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Been many a year since us kids would sneak onto the golf course during the winter to air out a few. Thanks for the memories.
Now days I attend a golf shoot in reclaimed coal mine fields, and its still fun!
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From: Jim Davis
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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In the full draw photo, it appears that your elevation is well above 45 degrees and the arrows seem to have struck the ground vertically. The longest flight (because of drag) results from an elevation in the neighborhood of 42-1/2 degrees. Of course it's hard to create any particular launch angle unless you have a spotter with a gauge.
just $.02 I found under the bubblegum machine...
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From: Florida lime
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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FWIW - I measured the angle in that full draw photo at about 50 degrees up from horizontal.
Golfers are on the course year round around here. {8>(
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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Hah, that full draw photo was something that Dire Wolf had asked me to send him; he was so instrumental in getting that Ocala to me that he needed to see the fruits of his labor. Here's the gauge that I have my stepson hold... quite a marvel of engineering, LOL!
The torpedo level assures that the upper triangle is a perfect 45º angle, and then he just sights across it to my drawn arrow and says higher or lower; it works really well. The lower angle formed by the cardboard is 37º; I wanted to go that low just to see if any observable shortening occurred... and it didn't; the longest shot of my last session came at that angle. But I don't doubt the truth of what you say, either; I've read it elsewhere.
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From: Frisky
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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Crookedstix is obsessed with Dire Wolf's form and is doing his best to imitate him in that photo.
Joe
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From: Frisky
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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That's funny, as Crook's above post had not shown on the board when I accused him of trying to emulate the wolf!
Joe
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 19-Apr-15 |
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You're right, Frisky-- that was me doing my best DW impersonation in that photo! Except of course I don't have an anchor point like he does. Only one other photo exists of me at full draw... and in it I'm holding the Bow of Bows.
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