I recently bought a 44# Centaur and am shooting 525gr arrows out of it.They fly great and I will hunt with them.I normally shoot about 9grpp out of my bows but ended up with these arrows after trying a buddy's 100gr brass insert in one just for fun.I love how these arrows shoot.I have a 100gr brass insert and 175gr fp.I have another bow with much lighter arrows but I'm liking this setup right now.

I have been shooting 3D with it and am doing ok out to 20 yards or so but much past that and the arrow is on or even over the target.I use a split vision type of aiming but it's hard to split anything when the arrow is covering up the target.Is there any tips any of you heavy arrow guys can give me?I've been practicing at longer distances but I seem to shoot low on most longer shots.The answer is just to hold higher,right?lol

If I was real serious about 3D then I would not be using these arrows but I do like to score well just to keep my confidence up.There is a big shoot in Paris,Texas on the 25th and I am going to use this setup and hope to shoot well.The longer shots are a problem though.

By the way,I can't wait to hunt with this set up.With some 175gr Simmons Tiger sharks,if I do my part,the deer shouldn't be hard to find.

Establish your actual point on distance first. Do this on a paper face with a marked center for best accuracy. Then you can compensate for longer shots by backing up and walking your point up the target. Some measured trial and error should get you on target pretty well Once you learn your point holdover out to the max range you'll be shooting, it's a simple(not so much) matter of judging distance coupled with target size and adjusting point. You'll find that your brain will start auto correcting once you know your max point on and you know to stay below that elevation.

Lower your anchor point. If you anchor is middle finger at corner of mouth try your index finger at the corner of your mouth, or use both anchors, dropping to the lower position at 20 or 25 yards. Face walking.

What Robert said is true and effective. I assumed from your post that you didn't want to alter your technique so as not to disturb your established sight picture. Also, depending on the organization and class, face walking may not be legal.

How much does your arrow drop between 20 and 30?

Ray: You can't have it both ways. The easiest thing to do is shoot split finger. Bob

So your point-on is inside of 30?

Unless you can shoot point-on from "zero" to "farther than I'd seriously think about", I'd go back to split.

I sh anchor to where the cock feather will touch my nose and trigger my release.I cannot shoot any other way because of target panic.I fought it for years and this technique has cured(maybe not cured but almost)my short draw,wild shot problem.I am shooting much better and more consistent now and do not want to change anything about my form.The establishing my "point on" distance sounds good.I haven't been shooting these heavy arrows long and they do take some getting used to.At 20 yards and under,it is no problem at all and this will be a great setup for whitetail.

I shot a Black Widow PSAV for years and always used arrows that were 9grpp and with the longer shots,my arrow was still under the target.I got rid of the bow because I couldn't get it quiet enough for hunting.I tried everything too except extra heavy arrows.I guess that I will just have to get used to holding over the target when shooting these heavy arrows.

I have never known my "point on" distance but will find it very soon.That sounds reasonable.I'm guessing that it's close to 20-25 yards though because any shot over that distance,my arrow is covering up the target.Thanks for the input.

I shoot some similar set ups. And my point on with most bows and arrows is around 28 yards. Facewalking to my pointer finger makes it about 34 yards. Knowing your point on distance will make you deadly accurate!

Once you learn to use your point, you can move on to using your shelf or any other thing in your sight picture for reference. Practice with this and you can pretty handily extend your accurate range for 3d. Mind you, I recommend you stick to your established maximum range for hunting, but there's no reason not to stretch it out for 3d.

That arrow is close to what I shoot and consider an excellent hunting weight ( and not reall heavy) If you wnat to see heavy get a GT Heavy Hunter of the same spine and set it the same with heavy inserts and heads. It would make a great hunting shaft too, but you'd have to aim at the horizon at the disances you're talking aboutbecause it falls off quickly. Most who have modest gaps like those intermediate ranges where they can confidently shoot true "point on" and put the tip right on the spot they want to hit. Past that, you start putting the tip on the top of the vitals, spine or hold over as needed.

longshot,so if my point on is say,23yards for example,then would I have to estimate the actual yardage and consciously hold over x number of inches of my aiming point?I have a guy building a shed in my back yard right now but as soon as he gets done I'm going to try it.It seems that the whole arrow shaft is covering up the target when I hold over.Do I just look through that and concentrate on the aiming spot?

Ray, you use the arrow point as reference and concentrate on the spot you want to hit. You reference them to the point of aim but, you look at what you are wanting to hit. Trying to focus on the arrow tip, versus the spot is counter productive and leads to big groups. Focus on the spot you intend to hit and reference it with the arrow tip in your secondary vision when shooting at any ranges. Exactly like you are doing when shooting close than your point on distance.

Therefore, string or face walking is the answer if you want to shoot at extended ranges for this style of shooting. Range estimation is necessary in any shooting style whether conscious or not. It is very vital at longer ranges too. So, it is definitely necessary when shooting a heavy gpp arrow, at a lighter draw weight, from a short draw.

If you cannot get used to string or face walking or, a combination of both, than do as bob said and learn to do it the way you are with split release. It'll increase point on tremendously. It is no harder or no less accurate once programmed into your brain. Good luck and God Bless

I like to look through and concentrate on my spot, keeping the point in my peripheral or split vision or whatever you call it. I do this for international rounds at longer targets but my current 3d setup is point on at 35yds. That will probably change in a week or so when my new Omega arrives but I'll adjust and keep going.

I did a little shooting earlier to try and get my "point on" distance.I'm still not exactly sure what it is since I don't aim with my arrow but only use it as a reference.My arrows must be dropping fast though because at 20 yards,I am several inches under the aiming point.At 23-25 yards,my arrow point is on the back of the deer.I will just have to do a lot of shooting at 25-30 yards to get used to it.I normally just shoot 20 yards and under for hunting practice and when I was shooting 3D with my Black Widow and 9grpp arrows,a longer shot wasn't a problem because the arrow point was was under the aiming point and I could usually make a decent shot out to 25-30 yards.These heavy arrows fly great and hit hard but they do drop quite a bit past 15 yards.

Why shoot them then? Any light arrow would kill just as easily and extend your point on range close to 25 yards. It is your choice but, you are handicapping yourself greatly with the arrows you are currently shooting. God Bless

WV Mountaineer,that is a fair question and the answer is that I just wanted a change I guess.I had shot a BW recurve for years with a 9grpp arrow and just got tired of not being able to get that bow quiet,no matter what I tried.I bought a Roy Hall Apache that is 45# and was able to shoot my same 600's out of it that I used in my BW.They are about 9-10 grpp.I then bought a 44# Centaur but the 600's were too weak for it so I had to use 500's.I had an arrow made up that weighed about 440gr shooting ok out of it and even killed a fox with the arrow.My Buddy gave me a 100gr brass insert to try and I just loved how quiet and dead in the hand the bow felt and the fact that the bare shaft flew absolutely perfect.I have 15 or so of these arrows made up for hunting and they will be fine for that.My 3D scores may suffer a bit but I'm not real serious about it even though I do keep score and want to compete well.It's a challenge of sorts.I'm committed to making this setup work.I will probably be on a light arrow kick next year.Who knows.I'm just having fun.I like messing around with all of this.Longbows are new for me and I'm loving it so far.

I can shoot 8 gpp arrows in a very quiet bow. If you need heavy arrows to fix noise, then you really need to learn how to tune a bow better.

Strange statements in the post above. If you don't use the arrow to aim with, how do you know that the arrows are dropping several inches below your point of aim? What are you aiming with?

Your only shooting 11.9grs. per pound so to be honest unless you have a really high anchor, I really can't understand why you're having trouble at 20 yards.

FDP, My thoughts exactly. I would go even further and say (this will get me in big trouble), with 3 under, using tip of arrow, why not just use a pin or multiple pins? Then, you'd have the different yardages covered. You're aiming anyway, right?

Now I could care less how anyone shoots. I was just wondering !

The obvious answer, though I shoot instinctive or sights, not arrow point, is that a person owns, say, a Hill longbow, and there isn't any room for sight pins. Though you don't need a full sight window to shoot pins if you want to shoot 3 under. Don't think there are any advantages to shooting three under, and at least three disadvantages I can think of off the top, so if you are getting into it, and you want to shoot sights then you need a proper bow for that form.

More obvious answer for the target shooters is their class doesn't allow pins.

There is always someone who prefers anything. SO there are probably some people who shoot three under even if they aren't all that into sights, hard to pass on the arrow point advantage if you shoot the appropriate distances.

I have bought and shot a lot of sights over the years, and the vast majority are badly designed, and shake loose. I have paid up to about 300 in today's dollars. And yeah, those ones can be great, but it is amazing how limited they are at that price range. If the bow companies change much over the next few years, or the course setters it is back to the wallet. Sights seem to cause as many problems as they solve.

Sights lock you into one form and method. Aiming off the tip is nowhere near the same as using a precise .01"-.039" fiber optic pin, or even an aperture.

With a well tuned bow you can gap off the tip with a vertical bow and all the way canted over to parallel (you just have to know how that affects your shot and sight picture). You can't do that with a sight.

Gapping or any other reference aiming method is just a means for a shooter to set a rough elevation for the shot. It doesn't have to be quantified (although it can be) nor does it have to be set in stone. Not everyone can shoot instinctive and many people are more confident for using methods that fit better.

RayJ, sounds like your PO is about 20. For hunting that's fantastic. If you really want a longer PO for 3D you could reduce nock height a little bit or switch to a different arrow. But, the simple fact is with a heavy arrow and short draw, you will have a lot of drop past your PO. I would estimate with a 20 yard PO and arrow speed around 160 that your arrow will drop somewhere around 12-18" by 30 yards... maybe more. The easiest way to learn your trajectory will be to start at 5 yards on a large square target, put a spot in the middle and shoot your point on the spot. Work back till your maximum distance you plan to shoot. You'll find out exactly how much the arrow arcs up before point on, what your point on is, and how much it drops after it.

George,so you are saying that since I couldn't get my BW quiet that I can't tune a bow?That is a bit presumptuous I would say.I was tuned.The bow just was too loud for my liking and I tried everything .Three under might have been part of the problem.

No,I don't want to put a sight on my bow.In one of my above posts,I explained why I'm shooting this arrow.I shoot split vision.I do not consciously gap shoot but since on the longer shots the arrow is in the way of my sight picture,I was asking for advice.I have never shot arrows that are over 9-10 grpp so this is new to me.

There was a huge difference in noise between the Centaur and BW recurve.The heavier arrow makes it almost silent.I didn't know a bow could get that quiet.

Str8 shooter,thanks for info.I do know that I could use a lighter arrow or do this and that.The whole point is that I plan to hunt whitetail in thick woods with this arrow and my current form and am shooting 3D just for fun.If I was serious about 3D and being very accurate at longer distances then yes,I would need to shoot a lighter arrow,etc...I'm just wanting to be able to shoot out to thirty yards for 3D with this exact setup because I plan to hunt with it and am just getting familiar with this bow and arrow combo.I gave another bow at home with lighter arrows I could use for 3D but this bow is my newest toy and I am just having fun with it.

yes just look through the arrow and hold over,, you can always make other adjustments if you need,,, my point on was 20 yards,,, I could shoot out to 60,, but I had both eyes open,, it just takes practice,,, as stated,, you can always adjust your anchor if you want to go that way,, lots of options,, but holding over I think will disturb your form the least,,I was very successful holding over longer shots,,,, so that is my experience and what I recommend,, I also shot a fairly heavy hunting arrow,,, that is just what I liked,, and I didnt want to change anything for hunting ,, so I did not,, and was successful on the whitetail and hog shooting the same set up,,

Thanks Brad.That is what I'm going to work on.

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