A few weeks ago Rick Barbee admonished us to take a big breath and revitalize the tone of this forum (some of us feel that it's been less than welcoming).

I would like to suggest one practical means toward that end: take a step back from the superlatives and try (with some humility) to offer an unembellished, composite picture of what it looks like to be an average and/or aspiring archer. An expectations reality check.

Sure, superlatives such as "check out my..." (a) trophy buck, (b) private land / hunting cabin, (c) expensive new bow, (d) Africa hunt, (e) prodigious accuracy, etc. can be fun to read. But if we're honest we can admit that an over emphasis on exemplars can give aspiring and/or average archers an inflated picture of who we are--and even worse--inflated expectations that deepen their frustrations and may help explain why traditional archery struggles to grow. We needn't add to the damage done by canned hunt vids & horn porn mags.

Some of the humble shooters on the LW's first- shot threads already do this--I especially appreciate pics of their 'bad' shots, reminding me that I'm not the only one :) I'd like to follow their lead and begin this ADVICE-FREE THREAD where the mediocre-those-that-dare can share where they're at; no awesomeness required.

I'll go first... after six years of pretty regular practice I was good enough for last place in our local spot league:

Number one requirement for me and probably most if not all here is to have fun.Whilst you can't wrap newbies in cotton wool we can as a whole be nice and encouraging.At the same time we are all indivduals and every thing in our lives is affected by human nature.We are all big boys 'n'girls and most of us can take the good with the bad.The only two I have heard who may be perfect are God and Superman Oh Also Frisky maybe.From what I can gather only Frisky posts here.We need to have one goal and one aim.All we can do is to promote Traditional archery. Cheers to all OSR

I've wished for DATA like this for years now. Never get it, so I hope the guys here will prove me wrong.

Just for grins, though, I did check out the scores at IBO "Worlds" and to be honest, I had a pretty tough time figuring out exactly what an "average" score looked like, or even if the guys who A) showed up, B) shot the round(s), and C) turned in their cards represented a broad cross-section of the "trad" segment or the creme-de-la-creme.

I did recognize a few of the names, however.

I for one would be be happy just to see a whole bunch of scores from 3D rounds, just indicating the number of targets and the maximum ranges (approx) on the shots. Unfortunately, it seems to be fashionable to be too.... Somethin' - don't know what to call it - "Purist" maybe, to turn in a score card?

Not so much about who can pee the highest, just wondering what an "average" score looks like... Have a feeling that some of us are too hard on ourselves, and others are perfectly content thinking that they're pretty "average" Trad shots when in fact, they have every right to be thoroughly embarrassed and they need to buck up a little....

OSR - what's the difference 'tween God & Frisky?

God doesn't think he's an archery expert!

I'm all for having fun, but part of the Fun is mastering the skill. And I'd feel pretty stupid to find out that I've been taking too much pleasure in my "mastery" of the art if it turns out that I actually.. ummm.... SUCK at it!

Always nice to have something to shoot for, whether literally or figuratively. And just think what would happen if every last one of us make a dead-serious commitment to turning ourselves into Above-Average shots. There'd never be another "wounded one & lost it" thread again. Not because we're all lying to each other, but because none of us was any lobger capable of missing a milk jug at 20 paces...

I've shot only two 3D shoots this year, and did terrible at both. I'm a good 50 points down from my normal average.

We all have bad times. Just have to pull your boot straps up, and stay in the game.

Win, Lose, or Draw - It's all fun to me.

8^)

Rick

archery is my sport, hobby, and escape. Yes, I shoot almost always for fun. I miss my share and bend, break, and lose a good amount of arrows. It is part of my game. I will try and help others with what I have experience with. I believe helping others, new or old timers to trad, helps promote our part of this sport. I wish I was a better than average shot, I am not, I would be trying to help others improve themselves. Yes, we do need to step back and look at how we are perceived by non archers as well as non trad.

Don't generally go to shoots with score (no time) and I am more a backyard hero. Last year was the first year I got serious about deer hunting with my bow been shooting for about 4-5 years now. Only deer I got a shot at I wounded. Then made a rookie mistake and checked too soon and spooked her. Tracked her a couple miles but, ultimately lost her to private property lines. It sucked but I learned a lot and got really hardcore this year. It happens.

Jake

I don't get the premise? So if we're not just an average or"aspiring" archer , we don't post anything?

Nope. SB looks like you missed the premise. Try more like average archers being real with scores ect.

You're worried that "check out my buck" is intimidating to a new archer......after that post??

I think the newbies should be thankful they have God and me here to assist them.

Joe

I enjoy this forum. Like minded folks having fun with traditional archery. I skip a lot of threads that don't interest me and sometimes I find that because I skipped a title I have skipped something I would have liked to read. I say keep all bowhunting and traditional archery stuff coming and let me weed out the stuff I don't care for.

I don't shoot a lot of target archery. I am well below average on scores but I have been paying more attention to scoring lately. I think looking at scores and thinking about the numbers and how to improve them is as important as practicing your shooting. Set yourself some personal goals and try to improve by building each shot for max score. That may not be the ten spot every time, especially in 3D. Break it down for each target. Know your scoring area on each. Have fun and score better.

I love Rick's statement, " Win, Lose, or Draw it is all fun." I agree Rick and I believe that is where a lot of folks make the mistake with youth. We were taught it is now winning but how you play the game. Enjoy it all and have fun and even laugh at yourself. It is sportsmanship that we should all appreciate.

Dang. I got lost in the thread. sorry. I have nothing to report at this time. I may shoot a 3D Saturday. If I do the scores will follow.

OK shot 30 targets last Saturday, missed three but lost no arrows. Scoring was 0,5,8,10,11. I scored a 223 for the entire round. I shot Traditional worlds last year and was right in the middle. Of course I would like to win, but I manage to have a good time either way. Of course winning is more fun. ;)

I shot an ASA qualifier on Sunday with my Sage. 30 targets, unmarked to 25 yds. Scored 266, no misses, 2 fives, 2 twelves. Back in January, I shot the NFAA unmarked Nationals with my Bear Montana/wooden arrows- unmarked to 40yds, scored 405. I shot an International round in my club league last night, scored 161 with 3 misses.

Thank you for being humble enough to post your scores. I think you are right. It's always good to have high expectations, but it's also good to know that at times, those expectations are a long ways from where we are.

I'm approaching a decade in this sport, and not long after I picked up my first recurve the first Master's of the Barebow dvd hit the shelves.

After watching it, I was nearly embarrased. The folks they showcased were shooting 'lights out', EVERY SINGLE SHOT. After a few viewings, and probably a year later, I actually watched the end of the thing - where they run the sponsors and eventually, the bloopers section. Guess what? They showed nearly everyone who was shooting 'light out' in the video... missing (some badly, I might add) those same shots they nailed time and time again on camera in their segment.

Take home messsage: If the masters miss... then I guess it's OK if I miss too.

Approach archery like a child. Go out and have fun. Enjoy yourself. Regarding the internet... Edgar Allen Poe said believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see. He was a smart man who must have sensed the internet was coming. :) Jawge

I'm with Jawge. I just shoot... as enjoyable and carefree as possible. It's easy for me as I'm not the competitive sort. In fact I haven't scored an arrow for many, many years. To each their own though.

Shot a 3-D tourney in Shelby Montana this past weekend and posted the best score I have ever shot since getting back to the to shooting a longbow. The course consisted of 2 rounds of 25 targets with 2 bonus targets per round. Scoring was 10-8-5-0 with the bonus being double score. With 2 misses I shot a 409. Then shot an NFAA animal round with a friend on Monday and shot a 403, first time I was able to break 400 in several years. It was a good weekend.

Good thread, Nick. It's nice that we can have a discussion like this here. I got torched by a forum owner elsewhere not long ago for suggesting the very same thing.

Averaging 8.5 per target 3-D competition and 250 in 300 rounds. My goal is 9 points per target in 3-D and 270 in 300 round. Hopefully i can do it but if I don't still having fun trying! Of course puting a perfect shot on an animal is way more important to me.

No child left behind? We all have good and bad days but you should be trying to get better instead of having guys make you feel better by only posting their bad days. 2 things make accuracy, proper form and strength. Work on form and NOT snap shooting with a bow you can handle with ease and you'll get better. I can't stress the strength part enough.

Heck, most of my posts are about shooting at just two targets-- the sky, which I usually manage to hit, and the ground, which I need gravity's assistance with.

Seriously, there are so many ways to enjoy this stuff-- target, flight, clout, 3-D, hunting, building, collecting, trading, studying history... and just plain chewin' the fat with others.

Everybody enjoys a little recognition now and again, so when someone posts a nice buck or a new bow I find it easy to be happy for them. When someone needs an emotional lift and comes on LW and asks us for help, I also find it easy to reach out. It's a community here, and like any community it will have the whole range of human behavior. I guess I noticed a little bit of late-winter snarkiness, but if there was ever a year for cabin fever in the Northeast, this was it. Spring will fix a lot of that I bet.

Maybe you should shoot and not turn in score cards if it worrys you that much. Don't let score take the fun out of the most fun thing you can do standing.

Only shot in one "Shoot", adult barebow, had a blast, got second, but I was only one in my class! Can't remember the score. I do remember taking my youngest daughter, 6-7 at the time, she placed 4th in her group, had a super blast, and won a camping chair at the drawing, 15 yrs ago, still no one allowed to sit in that chair! MY point, scores don't mean SQUAT to me & mine, SMILES & MEMORIES do!

I prefer shooting at leaves, tufts of grass, and tennis balls in the backyard, or hunting small game. Relaxing, quiet and good practice for October Deer. Shooting at a League, with a score card and rules... it just doesn't sound like fun to me.

Don't use others as your yardstick. Judge your success on the basis of your own goals. Jawge

Some days I shoot like robin hood...other days I feel like a fraud checking in on the leather wall. Its a nasty, stormy, cold day here, but this thread makes me feel better.

I shot a round of 3-D last weekend. Didn't keep score but after the first couple shots of target jitters settled down and hit them all. We shot each others bows and arrows, shot multiple times, did some "trick" shots at a 10 yards weasel kneeling under a bench, over the shoulder, etc. Had a blast.

Ah... The first couple "target jitters" know them well! Shot competition for many years.... towards the end of it I got too wound up until the third or fourth target and made disastrous shots. After that I was in the groove. Lost several matches that if I had just hit the target SOMEWHERE on the first couple, I would have won easily! After destroying my left elbow in a work related accident...trying to shoot through the pain caused the most severe target panic imaginable. I finally had to switch to left handed to escape the pain and kill the target panic. All is well now...but I can't shoot accurately as far as I used to. Last shoot I went to was in the late 90's. Stuff happens... I have'nt shot a bow in nearly 7 mos. now. That's gotta be a record lay-off for me dating back to the late 50's!

How about just shoot against yourself Concentrate on improving your previous score. Nothing as rewarding as self improvement. OSR

How about just shoot against yourself Concentrate on improving your previous score. Nothing as rewarding as self improvement. OSR

If I mite add this , all scores are relevant to conditions, terrain , footing, distance, size of target at that distance. I would say that one should look at a shoot if like an IBO shoot to see what all the classes, and who shot what to see just how you did in relation to everyone there that day.Last weekend if you was at the Winter Nationals and shot Friday you got wet and had high winds, if you shot Saturday not much wind and no rain and for the most part that showed in the scores. so in my opinion it's very hard to compare what a good score was for any given shoot, if you can ave. around 9 you will be very happy at the end of the day, win loose or draw. Just Sayin Don't forget to have fun it's only a game !

I guess life taught me somewhere along the road that I am not in competition with others - that is a losing hand. Rather, I am in competition with myself.... to STRIVE to become better each day.

"How about just shoot against yourself Concentrate on improving your previous score. Nothing as rewarding as self improvement. "

"I guess life taught me somewhere along the road that I am not in competition with others - that is a losing hand. Rather, I am in competition with myself.... to STRIVE to become better each day."

I agree with you guys in principle, but....

There's a good book that's been out for a few years - The Talent Code. It takes a look at how it is that there can be pockets of extremely high performance in unlikely places, and one of the keys appears to be a sense of urgency - "you'd better get movin'!" It appears that it's not enough to Want To improve, or to believe that you can - the performers who truly excel are feeling a Push as well as a Pull.

Yeah, I know we all shoot mostly for pleasure and relaxation.... Right. Get it.

But HUNTING is not a low-pressure shooting event. Stakes are pretty high. At least for the critters....

So juts for myself.... No, I don't expect to be The Great One. When you've spent your entire life below the 5th percentile on the growth charts, you learn pretty early that there's always someone bigger, or stronger, or faster or...

But as a dad (and rookie coach).... I'm trying to teach my boys that the reality - that none of is likely to ever be The Best at ANYTHING - is no reason to accept less than an honest effort at Your Best. And if you really care about something, you ought to care enough to learn what the standards of competence & excellence are so that you can set challenging, realistic goals for yourself. It's all good to want to improve, but if you don't know what "better" looks like, how will you know if you're getting there?

And frankly.... If you want to know if you're improving IN ARCHERY... The scoring rings are there on the targets for a pretty obvious reason.

Heading to the Whittingham shoot in Jersey next week. Will meet up with a great bunch of guys. Go out and shoot and have a great time. No one scores anything. We do get on each other in a good-natured way, mainly over the misses, and have lots of laughs. Won't have any scores to post afterward. If there was a way to score this kind of activity on a 1 to 10 scale, this shoot would have to be a 20. Just hope the weather cooperates.

Not bad Tradmt, looks like you hit him a little too high and far back though. Exactly how fast was it flying? ;^) - John

Not bad Tradmt, looks like you hit him a little too high and far back though. Exactly how fast was it flying? ;^) - John

Nick B It's interesting looking at your score card. Pardon my ignorance here but I'm not sure exactly what your scoring, can you fill me in as to the distance you were shooting along with the scoring targets you used, size of the 10, 9, 8 etc..

Do you know what they use at the world's and IBO for distance and scoring target? Not trying to change the direction your thread is going, just trying to learn so I can compare my own scores. Den

Gf had an interesting post.Agreeing in principle with me and Dt1963 is well and good but true excellance comes from with in.I lived amongst Indidgenous aboriginies for a few months .Unlike us they need to be sucessful hunters to survive .Now the way you probably go about hunting is a far cry from what an aborigine would do.They don,t miss much and are far more maticuculous in stalking and bush craft than most of us will ever be.The most intresting part of their hunting is they will run down and chase game once hit and even hit it again.For them it is not over until the game is dead and ready to process for food.Even competition archers are not under that pressure.Win or loose they ain't going to starve. For most of us self improvement is a vary admirable goal to set ourselves.Those little rings and score zones really mean nothing if you look at the bigger picture.They are good to gauge your progress and for competition.If our lives depended on it I reckon we would get real good rea l fast. I am doing it for fun only.Others peoples fun is competition so enjoy what you like .At least your life won't depend on it. OSR

I shot competition for many years, indoor and outdoor. We had a cadre of 4 to 6 guys and we traveled around the state attending shoots. Had a lot of fun...shot the bull as well as the bow.

As guys started dropping out, the old gang faded away...I was the only trad archer in the group. I hung it up 8 - 10 years ago when the CWD "fix" was enacted and the deer in my hood were decimated...long story.

My son got me going again 2 years ago and the old fire has been rekindled. But, my shooting is now back yard and hunting...to that regard, the lion's share of my practice is mainly MY self imposed hunting distances. I've been forced to drop down from 70lb to 54lb due to the inevitable passing of time, and the aches 'n pains of a lifetime of sports and work...welder.

I've "met" some great guys here and have been invited to some shoots this summer...gonna try to make some. At 62, with 1 new and 1 bum knee, a torn left upper bicep tendon, and other minor ailments, I doubt I'll ever regain my past form...but I'll give it my best.

I do miss the camaraderie of the old days, and while scores were kept, having a good time was the name of the game. This is a leisure time activity...so it should be fun, eh?

I still compete at the local level and sometimes the state level. I'm 66.

I've noticed that I shoot best when I feel no pressure. Calm and tranquility take over. For me, anxiety about the shot has to be controlled or I won't shoot well.

When I shoot a match, I don't think about anything.

Form issues were addressed in practice. All I think about is...nothing...not even the shot.

That's why I always approach archery like a child. My aim is to have a good time. Takes the pressure off and I shoot better.

Jawge

To win, you need to know you have a chance to win. You have to be good enough to feel that way, and you must have a winning attitude. And, it doesn't matter if you are in a beginner's class or so-called expert. If you don't have confidence that you should be in the running, then you start out on the defense.

There were many shooters better than I was back when I shot lots of field, but I knew what I could do if I did everything right. I won a few, but I lost more. My goal was to get better each time and mostly I did that. You can tell they guys who aren't going to win; they are the ones who go to see who is in their class even before the shoot starts.

I don't pick shooting partners for their shooting ability but for their arrow finding abilities.lol

This is most certainly the last place I would come for a REALITY check

90-99.99% of what I read here is so far off from reality it makes my head spin.

Den, for the 300 round I shot 12 ends of 5 arrows each at 20 yrds, 5pts for bullseye. For a 450 round I shot 15 ends of 3 arrows each at 20yds, 10pts for bullseye. Google "archery 300 round" or "archery 450 round" to see what these targets look like.

Crazy8s, I agree... which is really sad. I started this thread hoping to create a space where aspiring and/or average shooters could post less-than-stellar scores (like I did) or pics of their typical scattered groups to show others that we're not all crack shots shooting lights out every arrow. Most importantly, I wanted aspiring and/or average archers to be able to share this personal info without inviting a swarm of unsolicited advice and opinions from the experts. Sometimes improvement just takes time as our mind and body become more kinestheticlly coordinated. Often, another lecture on technique is not what we are asking for, or what we need. Just time and some camaraderie.

I bought my first bow ~6 years ago from an older man who told me it took him 7 years to get his first (and only) deer back in the early 70's with the bow I was buying. Had he not shared such a "reality check" with me, giving a true-to-life example of how much time and patience archery demands, I would have given up years ago.

NICK B originally posted:

Sure, superlatives such as "check out my..." (a) trophy buck, (b) private land / hunting cabin, (c) expensive new bow, (d) Africa hunt, (e) prodigious accuracy, etc. can be fun to read. But if we're honest we can admit that an over emphasis on exemplars can give aspiring and/or average archers an inflated picture of who we are--and even worse--inflated expectations that deepen their frustrations and may help explain why traditional archery struggles to grow. We needn't add to the damage done by canned hunt vids & horn porn mags.

I have held back for too long on this thread. Nick B, what makes you think you can show up on a website and expect people to stop sharing their successes and enjoyment of this sport with each other because it lowers your self esteem???? Who do you think you are???

This sounds like a personal problem to me, and since I try to be helpful, I recommend you take one of the following actions:

-Don't compete: enjoy archery for what it is. You will never be the very best and I, for one, will never care. Get over it!

-Work harder: If you feel you must "measure up," work harder at it. People here will offer advice, but the effort must be yours. We can't help you with that. Life just isn't fair.

-Do something else: Less stress and disappointment make for a happy life. We all want that.

I hope you learn to enjoy archery without being intimidated. Seems ironic that I enjoy it because it helps me focus and relax... Don't expect others to meet your "special needs."

- John

P.S. At least one professional writer and one former military "technical writer" have responded in this thread. Your excessive use of "flowery" words and complex sentences does not impress, it only shows that you believe you are superior to the rest of us. I suppose it might intimidate some folks... Just like all that success stuff intimidates you.

Fisher--I never suggested that "people stop sharing their successes."

Instead, I tried to start ONE THREAD for people who dare to share their less-than-awesome archery skills. Few dared to do so. The reason why they don't is now clearer than ever. And that's sad.

PS: People have different accents and vocabularies. That you presume my diction betrays a de facto superiority complex is, well, F'd up. All people with drawls are not stupid, and all logophiles are not pompous a$$es. People who post pics of their trophy bucks are not always bragging, and people who suggest that the atmosphere of this forum could improve one humble thread at a time are not always intimidated.

Yeah...I'm a bit confused here too. I guess I misread the purpose of this thread. There are many accomplished archers and hunters here, and yes...there is a difference.

Sorry, but buying a bow 6 years ago doesn't equate with the statement, ".....I would have given up years ago". Brother, you haven't been in this sport for "years" yet. However, 6 years is definitely long enough to become proficient if one puts forth the effort required...perhaps you have not?

Bottom line...as a LW Canadian friend recently reminded me...nobody cares what you shoot. IF you attend enough shoots, you will figure it out...other than the true elite class archers, most of us shoot for our own gratification. That, and the enjoyment of the company of other like minded folks.

This doesn't mean one shouldn't strive for improvement...just set YOUR expectations. But, if this angst takes the enjoyment out of it...yeah, maybe find something else to do.

My son played hockey for a very well known coach his senior year...this man said the team had but one goal; to get better every week. Not bad advice.

Sorry if I got off thread...whatever it is...but I wouldn't belittle the experience and knowledge of some of the gents here and on other sites.

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