After shooting my new Centaur thru the chrono and getting results that were less than expected,I was curious as to what speeds other guys were getting from their bows.Please include bow brand and type(recurve,longbow,or self bow),your draw length and weight of bow at your draw length,arrow type and weight,and any other data that I may have missed.

I have a Centaur Chimera that is 44#@28".I thought I was drawing 28" but it is probably more in the 27" range.I had a 522gr Beman .500 that shot 159fps.A 412gr Gold Tip .600 shot 169fps.I kind of thought that I would pick up more speed with th 412gr arrow as compared to the 522gr arrow but 10fps is the difference in a 110gr difference in arrow weight.

I realize that speed is not high on the priority list of attributes in a traditional bow but I want to get all the performance out of a bow that it is capable of.My Centaur is extremely quiet and super accurate with the heavy arrow so i think that arrow will be what I hunt with this season.

So,what are your speeds?I'm anxious to see how my bow stacks up against other bows.I've done a search on this topic before and most people were getting speeds that I can only dream of.

RER Vortex 2 hybrid longbow, 41#@30.75" draw, 508grn@ 155fps.

It's not a race horse but I love this bow and shoot it really well.

Just got in my Vintage Works '59 Classic a day ago. Not tuned yet really but it shot between 180-182fps@485grn pulling about 49# same draw as above.

Five or six years into my reunion with a longbow, I came across a thread on this site that warned of the consequences of subjecting our equipment to the unflinching eye of a chronograph. The reason being that most would be disappointed in the speed of their arrow and would, as a causal consequence, become disenchanted with the bow.

At that point in my archery career, I had already committed myself to one bow and one type of arrow and had used this combination to cleanly kill two deer in my first two years as a spot and stalk archer.

My equipment consisted of a 62" Northern Mist Baraga marked as 53 lbs. at 28" (I draw 27")and the Carbon Express Heritage 150 arrow, cut to 29", with 150 grains up front.

Despite the warning, however, curiosity eventually got the better of me and, on two separate occasions, I shot arrows through chronographs in reputable (albeit, compound oriented)bow shops.

And, as the earlier mentioned warning predicted, I was disappointed with the speed (151 fps) of my arrow.

After giving some thought to these results, though, I concluded (as Ray did in the opening of this thread) "that speed is not high on [my] priority list," but a quiet bow that I shot well and consistently was.

And this bow (as commented on by several compound shooters who were watching me shoot) was quiet and (as confirmed by several dozen shots that varied less than one foot per second) allowed me a consistent, repeatable release.

Please forgive this lengthy response. Thought this perspective from a layman archer worth sharing.

What kind of performance are you wanting? With a 27" draw and a 522grain arrow your going to have to be pulling 50+ pounds to get 175fps. I have the same draw length . Bows that I have tested are Bob Lee and Predator recurves.

Lol, only people who tell you speed means nothing are the ones who don't get much speed. Speed means flatter trajectory and more penetration. Guys use non stretch strings, play with silencers, and even play with lighter arrows in order to get more speed. So yes its important to most people but its not the end all of archery. It's helpful but mot something you can't do without. Quiet, well tuned, accuracy will kill anything you wanna hunt, even those foam animals at the shoots,lol.

My Morrison shoots 195-197 with 640 gn arrows and b50 string. My longbow is a couple lbs heavier and does a few fps better with around 630gn wood. I guess I'm one of those guys who says its not important but then I've always had it with my 32" draw length.

I use my chrono setting up a new rig to get the arrow properly tuned to what speed and point of impact/windage I WANT from all my setups, that way they all hit the same.

Chrono's need proper setup to get reliable repeatable results. Also draw length and quality of release play a large part.

Fast enough to shoot thru this bull at 30yrds

Hell, I am only getting 148 out of my longbow. 505g arrow with 46# at my draw.

My PSRV from black widow shoots 520 grain wood 160fps and 440 grain carbon 170 fps. My 54@27 PSA shoots a 550 grain carbon 185 fps. My PL longbow shoots 57@27 shoots a 540 grain 175fps.

Many years ago I shot my favorite bow through a chronograph at a trad shoot. I was dissappointed with the results. My "slow" bow was not what I thought it was. Before long I was not shooting it well as mind games started playing in my head. Eventually I sold a perfectly good bow for no good reason.

I will never ever shoot another arrow through a chronograph.

My Omega hybrid will shoot 190 fps with a 465 grain GT, 47# @ 29". My Kodiak Hunter shooting the same arrow is 48# @ 30" and shoots 175.

I'd recommend going to the websites for Pete Ward and Blacky Schwarz to get information on the performance, including speed, of a large number of traditional bows tested under controlled circumstances. Both men have tested a number of bows and publish results in terms of bow speed as a function of arrow weight and draw length.

Common to both men's testing is the speed of the bows with arrows weighing 9 grains per pound of draw weight at 28" of draw. Make sure you compare apples to apples. Mr. Schwarz publishes data using a mechanical release in a shooting machine as well as finger release with bows shot by hand. (mechanical is usually 5 fps faster).

My interpretation of their data is most traditional bows on the market today will shoot 170-190 feet per second with the 9 grain/pound 'standard', with a 28" draw. Classic 'D' shaped long bows are on the low end. Hybrid longbows like the ACS and recurves group on the higher end.

There are a lot of performance claims in the literature today and in the fine print, one can often find the test was done at 6 or 7 or 8 grains per pound. Not the typical weight many shooters, especially hunters, use.

In many respects all this 'performance' data is unfortunate because it can take our attention away from several other factors that are more important in getting accuracy and repeatability

Draw length is very important as noted in a number of posts. You can get a real sense of just how important by looking at the draw weight vs. length curves the reports these gentlemen publish.

But the real important issues like smoothness of draw, amount of preload, ergonomics of the grip for repeatable hand placement, noise, etc., can only be determined by shooting the bow yourself.

Personally, I want a quiet, smooth, bow that helps me hit what I'm looking at. Speed in a non issue for me. In fact, a good friend once commented to me he really preferred a slow bow. That way if he made a bad shot, he could run the arrow down and retrieve it before it missed the spot. :o).

If you want to maximize performance you need to maximize your draw length. It's as simple as that.

Modern well designed bows shoot very similar to each other as far as speed/performance. It's not the bow

I have a Whippenstick longbow that is 59# at my 30 inch draw. With 525 grain arrows it shoots 193. It's the fastest bow I've shot through a chronograph. Bill

If most people would stop leaning into the draw, moving their head towards the string instead of the opposite, and collapsing their shoulders most would have a longer draw. You wanna know ur draw length? Pulls a compound with fingers and measure. recurves don't shorten draw length, hunching up cause of no let-off does.

Sorry left this off..... Not many men are short enough to have under 28" draw. that's why everything was set by 28" to start with. That was the average draw length thru out history of modern archery. Now-a-days guys are taller than back then and have shorter draw because they dunno how to draw n anchor their bows. learn to draw and make your bow faster.

Short drawing is another reason for the slow bows. Even if you snap shoot, don't release till you feel your anchor properly.

Sorry left this off..... Not many men are short enough to have under 28" draw. that's why everything was set by 28" to start with. That was the average draw length. Now a days guys are taller then back then and have shorter draw because they dunno how to draw n anchor their bows.

GLF, Im one of those unfortunates at 5ft 4" lol. Im between a 26 and 27 inch draw, wish that werent the case.

Widow saIII 52@27 2213 450gr 182fps 8.6 gpp = 33 fp KE plenty

Speed less important compared to hitting what you look at with your style and draw length. Don't get too technical - if isn't broke don't fix it!

Red Beastmaster x1, the chornie has cause some to sell perfectly good bows or they have gone to the compound. Never thought about a fast bow until the chornie and compound took over the bow market.

I always thought that I had a 28" draw but after seeing a video of myself shooting,it is obvious that I overdraw and then settle back into anchor.That is probably costing me an inch in draw length not to mention the fact that I probably lose a few fps on release.Once I'm at full draw.I'm solid and pull until the cock feather touches my nose,then release.I'm shooting well right now so I'm not changing anything to gain speed as far as my shooting form goes.

I like to tinker and am never satisfied with my current setup.lol.I like to shoot thru paper and the chrono everytime I go into the archery shop.I am curious as to what other bows will do speed wise realizing that alot of it has to do with draw length and release.A snap shooter will shoot a faster arrow if he reaches full draw compared to someone who holds at anchor in my opinion.It seems like I used to get much better arrow speeds when I snapshot but TP got hold of me and I had to change how I shot or I would never be accurate.

PSA V 62@29 640 grain Axis 340 189 fps. Guess I'm one of the lucky ones to have it all! Lol. Now if I could just learn how to hit the same spot every time...

The string, the string, the string. It is the difference in each person's situation, all things equal.

I have a Maddog Mountaineer that I would guess is in the Mid 180's at 61 pounds with a 580 gpp arrow.

I have a Kanati at 55 pounds that I'd guess was in the same range with a 540 grain arrow. Lighter but, definitely faster/draw weight than the Mountaineer. Not much but a few fps.

I have a Maddog Retro recurve that is 59 pounds and I'm guessing 195-200 or so with a 565 grain arrow. Yeah, it's that fast. Pound for pound it is the fastest bow I own without a doubt.

I have a 53 lb PSAII Widow that is shooting at 170 fps with a 535 grain arrow.

I have a gifted unnamed bow from a fella here that is 67 pounds and shoots a 581 grain arrow at 191 fps.

I have a 76 pound Great Northern Ghost that I have zero idea of how fast it is but, it shoots a 578 grain 2315 so fast it shocked the compound guys that watched me shooting it. It shocked me too. It s a blur. Guessing, I'd say in the 215 range. And that is all I'm doing. Just guessing from several people, including myself, that have shot a lot of bows through a chrono.

Some of these bows I just listed I have shot through the chrono. Some I haven't. So, I'm just guessing on some but, they are all right there. I draw a touch over 28 after settling in to anchor, and I buy a string designed to quieten my bows as best as possible, while increasing performance. String aside, performance is affected by draw length, release, form, arrow weight, and draw WEIGHT. I draw and anchor all bows the same and I and do what I can to get every ounce of performance out of them once an arrow combo is tuned. For reason GLF stated. There are no side effects but positive ones with a faster arrow tuned and adequately built for a certain bow. So, I maximize that. And I shoot heavier bows for that reason.

The bow shop I frequent no longer has a chrono. He shoots both trad bows and compounds and sells compounds. Last time a guy shot the chrono, he decided not to replace it for the reasons that it wasn't the first time someone had shot it. And, the fact that no compound bow shot as much advertised and, the guys who were looking at buying them would often become disappointed when they saw that and wouldn't buy them.

This guy is a whiz at bow tuning and stands behind his products and work but, he simply grew tired of people shooting a bow, liking it, wanting him to accessorize it to their wishes to try out, than back out of buying it when it didn't make the mystical numbers the adds said that it did. So, there is sound advice about not tempting it with your bow and a chrono. God Bless

I had a Blacktail that was 54# at my 28 1/4" draw. The one time I tested it I was shooting a 565 grain arrow and was getting 183-185 if I remember correctly.

I haven't shot my Hellfire through a crony yet...one of these days.

Fast enough if I can hit where I'm aiming!

Scherrinsky 66" target bow 55#@28" Superflex cores regular glass no carbon, no silencers I'm sorry but I don't know the grain weights of the arrows. Borrowed a couple of my buddies A.C.E.'s at a Triple Crown event in IN in 1993. Shot them across Taylor Falcon's chronie I believe. 251fps average. My 29.5" 2312's averaged 214. 540gr 2117's was 204 60#@30" same bow. All finger shot.

But think TradNut says it all!

Y'all take care

I like my bows to shoot up around 200 fps, for me to get that kind of speed I had to go up in bow weight, so that's is what I did. Most of the bows I shoot are in that area, give or take a few fps. Draw length is 27.5", arrows are generally between 550gr and 650gr.

I like a flat cast out to 40 yards. I'm hunting with a Border BD Hex 6 56#@29", 500 grain arrow, 10 strand 450+ string by Sowerby, 200 fps.

Allright, spaced among the "useless data" posts are a couple of significant points. To sum up as I have tried to do often, when equalized for arrow weight, degree of center shot and comparable strings (this is the biggie), plus 1/2 dozen other variables like brace height, release details and even arrow nock tension; there is not enough speed difference between bows worth arguing over.

Period, the end.

Using the more "standard" nine gpp arrow weight, a cut to center bow with a typical dacron string Will be around 160fps. Heavier arrows put speeds right about where the original poster reports.

Apples to apples, a thinner Fflight will boost the 9gpp speed a bit past 180.

It does not matter, new, old, expensive or not; when details are equalized, there IS NO DIFFERENCE.

"I shoot a 9gpp arrow and get close to 200fps, of course I draw 31 inches." Guess what, you are no longer shooting 9gpp because that was based on the bow's draw weight at 28", so as gpp went down speeds went up. Duh!

Now this does NOT mean that arrow and speeds that have been killing stuff for eons all of a sudden bounce off the critters, but it does mean as GLF aptly writes, GV echos and WVM confirms, faster is better, so why not get your equipment to perform at its peak?

R.

What overbo said

To go along with what Rick says about there being VERY LITTLE difference between bows of similar design, Bullfrog mentioned a #59@30 Whippenstick that shot a 565grain arrow 192-3fps. I just put my 1959 Shakespeare RH300(never a high end bow) through the chrono. It is #60@my 28.75" draw and shot a 555grain cedar at 193fps. You are paying for aesthetics and fit, performance is too close to matter!

i agree with yorktown5. I have had a chronograph for over 15 years , probably checked 100 different bows. When all things are the same , gpp, and draw length is the same, same strings ,there is Very Very little difference . I dont get out my chrono very often any more. Just splitting hairs.

How in the world are you guys getting speeds of 180's to mid 190's and even higher with arrows that are 9grpp or even higher? I guess it has to be knuckle dragging draw lengths.It seems that most of the higher speeds are coming from bows over 50 lbs.Will a heavier bow perform better than a lighter bow at the same grpp and draw length?

I draw 28.25 inches. I worked for a while to ensure full extension. But, I also still have a bend in my bow arm elbow. I'm not saying work to extend your draw length however, when I started back into trad 4 years ago, I was drawing 26.5 inches. I'm up almost two inches for the reasons GLF pointed out in his first post.

It is a combination of many variables. Maximize them all if you want the most speed. i wouldn't change my way of shooting but, I would sure ensure I was extending, pulling through the release and, would hold at anchor long enough to get that. And, I'd work at getting my draw weight up. One thing you'll see in common with the faster bow speeds posted above is the fact that everyone doing so if pulling 28 or better and everyone is shooting heavy bows by most standards. And remember 44#'s at 27 inches is equivalent in speed to 30-35 lbs at 29 inches. Closer to 30 in my experience

No harm meant cause you got a great bow and you are what you are but, at 27 or so inches, 44 pounds isn't going to do much better than what you are doing. Draw length is more important than weight but, you can't do but so much with that. You hear guys say that draw weight is over rated. I say that in the context in it isn't needed to cleanly kill things. But, no matter who tells you different than this, higher draw weight at your draw will shoot faster with the same gpp arrow at a lower weight.

If you want a faster individual bow, maximize form, tuning, string being used, etc... If you want to shoot all bows faster, shoot stronger bows. It is that simple bud. Others will be along shortly to disagree but, that isn't disputable. God Bless

"Sorry left this off..... Not many men are short enough to have under 28" draw. that's why everything was set by 28" to start with."

Well...I'd say that roughly half of men today have a draw length of 28" or less.

Thanks for the chuckle though.

I've got a prochrono plus that I've used to chrono many bows for various species to hunt. It's not the speed that we need to be concerned about it's the kinetic energy or ft/lbs which is speed x speed x weight / 450240. I'll gladly help out anyone that wants to know how their setup shoots, you just need to stop by ( Deforest, WI) it's true most guys (even the pulley heads) are very disappointed and then want to overbow themselves and can't shoot where they aim. Herb

lol, sorry spike. yes there are shorter guys but not on average. As long as yer feet reach the ground your fine tho.

Yep ghost they do and you can see em at the shoots leaning their heads forward to meet their string instead of bringing the string to their heads, or squatting to shoot and anchoring in front of their faces. I held tourneys in my shop for years and competed for years. Even short guys like Darrel Pace had at least 28" draw. whether standing upright or canting your bow if your getting your back into it the average is 28" +. When a guy goes from shooting compound with fingers to shooting a recurve and their draw becomes 2 or 3 inches or more shorter something's seriously wrong.

RayJ: It has been said that,YES, efficiency does increase with draw weight, TO A POINT! Often said that the gains diminish past #60 or so. You can also find charts that illustrate performance gained from every additional inch of draw length alongside gains per lb of draw weight. Generally speaking, you can expect similar output (arrow speed) with a #45@29" bow as you would get from a bow/arrow/string that is #50@28. So yes, when I draw my #60 bow to nearly 29" I'm getting a lot out of that bow. 193fps with a 9.6gpp arrow is about what I would expect with that set up.

Why my bow's so fast that my feathers catch fire and all I draw is 28". LMFAO Jim :>)

My bows are as fast as I need them to be.

Blackwidow CHX 56" long 53@28 I draw 26.5 standard 14 strand blackwidow string 517grn arrow I have a pull threw release and when I got the bow I cronyed it and it shot 177fps.My limb veneers are tiger myrtle and it is a light weight wood and it shoots faster then my other kingwood CHX at same spec's is the only answer I have for that. I have a friend that has a 28 inch draw and I can shoot his bow across my crony and I shoot a arrow just as fast as he can with my release were he has a static release. There is so many factors that effect bow speed you can not get a fair comparison unless you are shooting all the bows yourself and have the same string, arrow, release etc. I take my crony to all the shoots I go to and will crony anyones bow for them and most bows are in the same range. I worn them the speed will may affect the way they think about there bow and not to shoot it across it if it will bother them. Most shoot a lot slower then they think they were shooting. I use the crony as a tool and they are good tools but I have standards that a bow has to shoot or I will not own it and that is 170fps or more with 10gr per lb arrow with me shooting it. Widow

With my 44# Centaur,I'm shooting 159 with a 522gr arrow.That is 11.81 grpp.Why did I only gain 10fps when I decreased arrow weight to 412gr.I was shooting 169 with that light arrow and dropped 110gr of arrow weight.I would have really thought that I would have gained at least 15fps and maybe 20 with that much of a drop in arrow weight.With only a 10fps difference in speed,there is no reason not to use the heavy arrow for hunting and even 3D.To me,20fps is a lot.10 is quite a bit but not enough to use the lighter arrow for hunting.

You guys that are shooting 180fps or better could use an arrow 350 gr and still kill game cleanly with no problem.It is obvious that I will never shoot anywhere near 180 unless I go up in draw weight and/or increase my draw length a little,which might not be so easy.

Actually,I'm shooting very well at 20 yards with my 522gr arrow at 159fps and I'm very confident that for whitetail,I have a very good setup.

fast enough to hold all the american longbow national and world flight records.

My Hoyt Buffalo 60 inch 54lb at 29 inch with a 468 grain will shoot 207 . My Omega Imperal longbow 62 inch 42lb at 29 inch 418 grain will shoot 189.

195fps with my Leon Stewart d/r longbow 75# @ 28.... I don't remember the arrow weight. They were not light arrows.

212fps with my Martin Hunter 65# @ 28.... same arrows.

"How in the world are you guys getting speeds of 180's to mid 190's and even higher with arrows that are 9grpp or even higher? I guess it has to be knuckle dragging draw lengths.It seems that most of the higher speeds are coming from bows over 50 lbs.Will a heavier bow perform better than a lighter bow at the same grpp and draw length? "

RayJ, you are reading right past the answer. In none of your posts do you mention the string..??? Example: I took a K-mag with the original dacron string, specifics don't matter here and fired thru the chrono at just above 160. I put on a 9 strand dacron (padded loops) and the SAME ARROW passed 170. Then swapped for 9 strands of D-97 and SAME ARROW passed 180.

R.

seems a better question may be what is the momentum is your arrow

I have one bow and arrow set up that I can get 225 fps from 3' in front of the chrono

I have another that is putting out over .51 slug-feet/second.

guess which number matters most to an animal once you've connected?

When I had my shop we tried different draw weights from about 40lbs to mid 70's to see what was most efficient. We came up with roughly 62lbs being the most efficient. Our methods weren't real scientific but we did enough testing over period of time to come real close. that's why when I had to drop weight due to health problems I dropped from 73 down to about 60. To be honest my bows I shoot now at 59 and 62lbs are real close to being as fast as my 73 and 76lbs bows with the same weight arrows. Not the same gpp but the same overall weight.

Yes,strings do matter but I would never have thought to gain up to 20fps.I have a bow that was shooting 157 with a ff string but large diameter.I bought an SBD string and increased my speed to 162-163 and it was quieter but that isn't near 20fps.I think it is an 8 strand string.The one that came on my Centaur is skinny but I'm not sure of the exact material or strand count.

Never used a chrono. Don't really worry about a number as far as speed goes. My predator seems really fast and it hits what I'm looking at so no need to know what the fps is.

"Im one of those unfortunates at 5ft 4" lol. Im between a 26 and 27 inch draw, wish that werent the case."

Right there wit'cha brother! But FWIW, I once got a reading on 9GPP out of my pre-FF Howatt Hunter that was 181, IIRC. I think my Bighorn threw the same arrow at about 165... But I only got a few shots through the chrono before it went haywire, so I won't swear that it was properly calibrated in the first place.

Also, FWIW, my measured draw length is 25.5" from the valley o' the nock to the deepest point in the grip. That's a non-standard way of measuring things, but what it does tell me is that with a 7.5" brace height, I've got exactly 18" of push to get that arrow up to launch speed, whereas a guy like Gary (GLF) probably gets closer to 23" of actual powerstroke. Pound for pound and grain for grain, I've got as good a chance of shooting an arrow as fast as his as I've got of winning the Powerball jackpot on a night when there's no drawing....

On the brighter side, if he's a foot taller than I am and his draw length is only 5" longer, maybe I'm not doin' so bad after all.....

Thp - thunk!

Here's how I compare fast hunting bows after too many debates and years of testing.

5 simple standards= 1. 28" long real hunting arrow (that I really hunt with) with a 2 blade broadhead that will stop on the front of the bow at full draw. 2. String that I really hunt with (what ever material that has a minimum or 10 strands) 3. 10 grains of arrow per pound of bow weight. 4. 2 chronographs with fresh batteries placed fairly close to the broadhead at full draw. 5. 10 shots with fingers through each chronograph with the same arrow and average the results.

Fast bow (As mast as many and faster than most) = 175 FPS

Yorktown5,I just re read your post.You went from Dacron to skinny D97.Now,I can see 20fps.I thought you said that you went from Dacron to fasftflight then D97.Someone on here recommended a Rick Barbee string to me.That might be worth checking out in my case if I could pick up another 10fps,it would be worth the change.I would probably then have under spined arrows though.

Yorktown5,I just re read your post.You went from Dacron to skinny D97.Now,I can see 20fps.I thought you said that you went from Dacron to fasftflight then D97.Someone on here recommended a Rick Barbee string to me.That might be worth checking out in my case if I could pick up another 10fps,it would be worth the change.I would probably then have under spined arrows though.

160+ W/hunting wt. arrows. 50# bow. I was surprised too. My bow looked wicked fast. Speed really doesn't matter that much on deer sized targets. I have no experience with bigger critters.

Fast enough for my purposes. Why?

I have several whippenstick bows. They all shoot 195-200 fps at 8 gpp with my 27" draw. At 9 gpp I'm usually around 185-190 fps and at 10 gpp 175-180 fps. The bows range from 41 to 59 pounds at Mt draw length. For example, my Firehawk is 42@27 and shoots a 350 gr arrow at 195-197 fps and a 440 gr arrow at 180-181 fps. Those are actual numbers, measured arrow and bow weight and draw length. String is a 12 strand ultracam made by me. Overbuilt but I put my priority on stability, not raw speed.

I've done plenty of testing with strings and bows. A skinny string isn't a magic cure nor will it gain a person 10 fps over a similar string with a few extra strands.

And upping draw weight also won't gain speed all by itself. Perhaps there may be a very small gain of a couple fps but if you shot two bows of identical design, one 40# and the other 60#, and they both shot a 10 gpp arrow the speeds will be nearly identical. If you want to increase energy than by all means up draw weight. Just don't do it and expect a speed gain if you maintain similar grains per pound.

Interestingly, while I own four chronographs which I have used religiously for years as a long range rifle shooter/hunter. I have never bothered to chronograph any of my bows. Probably because as a kid shooting deer with a 40 pound(at my draw) Bear Grizzly and having arrows almost always pass completely through, even on a 40+ yard angled shot. While I have owned bows that feel faster than others, I never got hung up on it as a success factor for my shooting and hunting.

I chrono quite a few bows and set-ups and for me at my 28" draw with 10 gpp arrow weight, recurves are typically right around 180 fps and longbows are 5-10 fps slower.

I am very fortunate with my draw length when it comes to speed. But I also have the disadvantages of being 6'4". I've owned most all big name recurves that were around before about 2000. I get about the same speed with b50 outa of most of them,and most modern longbows other than the hill style longbows.

Str8 Shooter,those speeds with a 27" draw are very fast.You must have an extra clean release.

What RayJ said brings up a great point also . A clean release will not only increase speed but will be quiter too

Increase draw length and practice your release. Everything else will be a minimal improvement at best

The release is part of it. I've spent a lot of time developing good shooting technique and a natural dynamic release. If I shoot a soft release, not static just not executed great, I see a drop of 4-6 fps.

That said, I only chronograph these days to get a baseline. I tune for perfect flight than write everything down including speed. Easy way to know if something changes, whether it's the bow or something I'm doing.

And RayJ, if your shooting 27" your bow is closer to 41# and shooting a 522 gr arrow puts you closer to 12.7 gpp. Getting mid- upper 150's at that gpp is pretty dang good.

" If you want to increase energy than by all means up draw weight. Just don't do it and expect a speed gain if you maintain similar grains per pound. "

YUP!

GPP is useful only for comparing one BOW to the next; if you want to compare ARROWS, then all that really matters is GRAINS and FEEPS. GLF (6'4") and I (5'4") can shoot the exact same arrow mass and at the exact same speed, and we'll get about as close to exactly the same results as humanly possible... but I may have to pull a lot more pounds to do it....

But grains is grains and feeps is feeps - whether a guy can get to X fps shooting #45 @ 12 GPP or has to ratchet up the draw weight to #67.5 and drop down to 8 GPP is immaterial...

Regardless of all that, let me show you my two Highwood Hunters. The one on the left is 62-inch, 65-pounds at 28-inch draw.

That bow was chronographed at 205 feet per second. The shooter has a draw length of 31 inches, I believe, and he was shooting a 2216 aluminum arrow. The bow was chronographed at the Archers Den in Great Falls, MT in January or February of 1994.

The bowyer, Jerry Parsons, was there, I was there and the guy shooting the bow. We all witnessed it and it was before I came to own the bow.

One of the smoothest, hardest hitting bows I have ever shot. The bow on the right is the same model only it is 64-inch and 63 pounds at 29 inches. Smooth as butter and also really spits em out.

"Allright, spaced among the "useless data" posts are a couple of significant points. To sum up as I have tried to do often, when equalized for arrow weight, degree of center shot and comparable strings (this is the biggie), plus 1/2 dozen other variables like brace height, release details and even arrow nock tension; there is not enough speed difference between bows worth arguing over. Period, the end.

Using the more "standard" nine gpp arrow weight, a cut to center bow with a typical dacron string Will be around 160fps. Heavier arrows put speeds right about where the original poster reports.

Apples to apples, a thinner Fflight will boost the 9gpp speed a bit past 180.

It does not matter, new, old, expensive or not; when details are equalized, there IS NO DIFFERENCE.

"I shoot a 9gpp arrow and get close to 200fps, of course I draw 31 inches." Guess what, you are no longer shooting 9gpp because that was based on the bow's draw weight at 28", so as gpp went down speeds went up. Duh!

Now this does NOT mean that arrow and speeds that have been killing stuff for eons all of a sudden bounce off the critters, but it does mean as GLF aptly writes, GV echos and WVM confirms, faster is better, so why not get your equipment to perform at its peak?

R"

IMHO, this says it all. About the only time I shoot through a chrono' anymore is to check the consistency of my draw length and release, but there are other ways to do that for sure.

My 63" n2n 3-piece longbow 28.5" draw length 6 1/2" brace height 688 gr arrow- 12.5 gr/lb = 169 fps 588 gr arrow-10.7 gr/lb = 179 fps 512 gr arrow-9.3 gr/lb = 189 fps 430 gr arrow-7.8 gr/lb = 204 fps

I mainly shoot a Howatt Hi-Speed, which by definition must be fast. However, I don't have a clue how high is Hi-.

GLF, you said: If most people would stop leaning into the draw, moving their head towards the string instead of the opposite, and collapsing their shoulders most would have a longer draw. You wanna know ur draw length? Pulls a compound with fingers and measure. recurves don't shorten draw length, hunching up cause of no let-off does.

GLF, you describe exactly what I'm doing when I'm not thinking about it...bringing the head to the string instead of the other way around. I've been trying very hard NOT to do that since being made aware that its not a good thing, but not been very successful at it.

That aside, my draw length was measured at a shop using their special arrow with markings on it - 28 inches on the dot. I'm not overly tall at exactly 5-foot-7-inches, so if I get you right, I can gain a few more inches just by bringing the string to my head?

The other thing...could you explain what "hunching up cos of no let-off does" to the draw length?

A lot of guys tend to let their bow shoulder collapse instead of pushing the bow away from them. That can cost you an inch or more in itself.

No idea how fast my bows are. But I know they're fast enough to deliver a heavy arrow and a cut-on-contact broadhead where I need them to, which is all I worry about.

my sa III is so fast, it seared the meat on my last pass thru and I never had to cook the deer.

I really need to work on my form apparently.I am a decent size guy(5'10" 180)and should have a 28" draw length but it is obvious that I don't because I am not getting or ever have gotten the speeds being posted here.I always thought that I was 28" but I must be losing it somewhere during my shot cycle.Certainly,accuracy is more important than speed any day of the week but I have a top of the line bow and want all the performance I can get.

Next question is what is the most accurate way to measure draw length?I have been using a 29" arrow and measuring to the back side of the riser with it.It is 28" when holding at full draw but I think I am creeping and I know that I overdraw then settle into anchor.

[[[ RayJ asked: "what is the most accurate way to measure draw length?" ]]]

Draw an arrow, and have someone place a mark on the arrow at the deepest part of the throat of the grip. The red line in this picture indicates the deepest part of the throat of the grip.

Measure the arrow from the throat of the nock to the mark, and then add 1.75" to that measurement. The total is your draw length.

Rick

" Measure the arrow from the throat of the nock to the mark, and then add 1.75" to that measurement. The total is your draw length.

Rick "

Why do you add 1.75" to that measurement?

I guess I never given it much thought really but I've all ways done it like that but to back of the riser.

If I didn't have help I'd just put a wooden cloths pin on the arrow, draw back and measure from the throat of the nock to the cloths pin and that was my draw length.

I come up with 28 1/4" doing it that way.

Thanks Rick.I have never done that.I may have heard it in the past but never used it.I will try that asap.That still doesn't account for me creeping or collapsing at the shot.Those are problems I need to work on.Thanks to all who contributed to this thread.It has been very helpful to me in several areas.

Mike, that is the AMO standard for draw length measuring. You measure to either the throat of the grip, or to the berger button hole, and add 1.75"

Lots of bows will give you a real close draw length by measuring to the back side of the shelf, but not all bows are the same width back to belly at the shelf, so the 1.75" is the most accurate way.

Rick

I shoot a Predator recurve 67# @ 28" and draw it to 30" shooting 525-530 grain arrow at 219-221 fps last time I shoot thru a chrono but that was some time ago.

I purchased a chronograph last year. I realy don't care what speed my bow shoots. I bought it to see just how much change different components made. Such as different arrows or string. I use it mostly to see if my form is consistent. If I can duplicate readings, I'm happy. Don't really care if it was 140 fps or 210 fps.

Holy Crap, Rock! .... 7 GPP is gettin' down there.... But 220 is definitely UP there!

I think I'm gonna go hang from my arms for a few weeks... see what happens...

lol

Iwander and Elkhunter in their posts above are probably closest to normal reality. - lbg

The thing that becomes obvious is people try to determine for all based on their accomplishments. I would think everyone that spoke was correct concerning their situations. But, that is just my simple mind talking with no ego or jealousy expressed. God Bless

MINE IS SO SLOW' I DON'T THINK IT'S MOVED AN INCH, SINCE I PUT IT DOWN.

It is so fast that the box turtle jumped the string

I have only chrono'd my two Martin bows.

1 Martin Vision longbow 50@28 29 1/2 inch draw = 56# 478 grain arrow 188 fps 8.536 grn/#

2 Martin Hunter recurve 57@28 29 1/2 inch draw = 61# 478 grain arrow 186 fps 7.84 grn/#

At 70 lbs, shooting 10 to 11 GPP, speed has never been a big priority, but putting the arrow in the sweet spot always is. Accuracy Trumps speed every time.

I think Larry Hatfield's answer here is still my favorite.... But I do kinda wish he'd thrown in the feeps just as a point of reference....

148 fps with 481 grain arrows, not too fast I know. I'm pulling a 47 lb bow but probably only getting about 45 lbs at my draw length

Yes accuracy trumps speed every time , but fast accuracy with that extra penetration trumps both.

Amen, GLF

MY bow is to fast.

I always (well 99% of the time anyway) get complete pass throughs on animals.

This renders my lighted nocks useless for helping to locate the downed animals.

I think I'm going to tie a couple dead squirrels on the string, and slow it down to around 190fps.

8^)

Rick

OK, I'll be serious now.

My bow is 64# @ 29.5" of draw. I draw 29.5"

My arrows weight 653gr

198fps with the 653gr 10.2 gpp arrows

203fps with 10 gpp

208fps with 9.5 gpp

213fps with 9 gpp

Haven't tested anything below 9 gpp

Rick

I sold my chronograph a long time ago but chrono'ed many back at the time. I have never had a bow that would shoot over about 170 fps, WITH an arrow I'd consider hunting with. 10-12 grains per pound of draw. Most were even slower.

Rick,your bow is smoking.To get over 200fps with arrows 10grpp is something else.I guess your draw length helps.What kind of bow are you shooting to get those speeds.

Bigfoot Sasquatch SS ILF static tip recurve.

The only bow I know of that is faster is the Border with the HEX7 limbs, and it's only a couple fps faster.

Rick

I have a longbow 48#@28"It shoots 495grain 177fps

Pretty fast I guess I have a long draw. Not as fast as a compound but faster than an atlatl

Wow- I am impressed with some of these numbers. My advice - don't chrono your bow if you like the way it shoots.

For me: 29" draw 63 pound Groves Mag II Flemish Dacron string 10.8 gpp 170 fps 52 pound ACS carbon limbs FF string 11.1 gpp (elk bow). 165 fps 53 pound Groves Mag III Dacron endless loop 11 gpp 160 fps

My bows are faster than a sleeping elk at 10 yards, and slower than a wide awake whitetail at 3 yards! But hey, still have a little meat left in the freezer!

I think my Deathmaster is probably the fastest bow in the world. They are said to shoot just over 200 fps at about 9 grains per pound and 30 inch draw. However, that's with a heavy B50 string! Put a Rick Barbee string on one and look out!!!!

Joe

I have never checked a bow for speed. When I wanted more speed and a flatter arrow, I went from a 48# to a 60# bow. Then my first custom at 63#. Now I'm down to 53# and enjoy shooting much more. You guys that shoot bows in the 40's will never get impressive speeds, but they still kill if you do your part.

My Maddog Prairie Predator shoots at 190 FPS

I don't know how fast my current bows are. Show me a guy who constantly worries about that, and I'll shot you a guy that could likely shoot better if he didn't. Of course it doesn't hurt to know, if that's what trips your trigger, but what usually occurs is a disappointment that your bow isn't as fast as Fred's..down the road. Or not as fast as the other guys on the Leatherwall. When you start to be concerned with getting the last fps from your bow, you probably aren't shooting enough and working on your form. Peace of mind and all.

With the affordability of smaller chronographs in the past decade or so, people go buy one to "test their bow." One may be better off not knowing, or if you do know, learn how to live with it.

A lot has to do with draw length I guess. Earlier was posting my mediocre results with a 37# @ 27" horse bow shooting 369 grains at only mid 160s. Sad truth dawn on me today when I measured my actual draw length with the bow. A measely 26.5" and ~36#. Turns out that 27" was measured earlier with a 25# target recurve and there's a difference. It sucks to be a small guy standing 5ft 6". Now to work on my form and back tension hoping to get it to expand a little more reach closer to 27". Hopefully.

Someone mentioned string, yep that can make a big difference. My speeds were with b50. Thats all I use. I hate that ff "thunk".

"I don't know how fast my current bows are. Show me a guy who constantly worries about that, and I'll shot you a guy that could likely shoot better if he didn't."

I'm with George on this one.

As to my own bows, the answer to original question is-

REAL FAST!

(Except the ones that aren't)

My two main hunting recurves are a Big Foot Sasquatch and Covert Hunter with hex 7's. Both shoot real fast.

I have no idea how fast a single one of my bows shoots... and don't care. Fast enough is just perfect.

Speed is ONE of the qualities I can appreciate in a bow, but if it isn't stable and forgiving it ain't worth a hill of beans to me regardless of how fast it is.

A longer draw really helps. I would rather have an extra inch of draw length than 5# of draw weight. I draw under 29", so it varies a bit, but 28.5- 28.75" I recently took the chrono out to test different limbs and setting. The best I got was with a 425 grain arrow (manufacturer minimum arrow weight limit) and 56# for 204 fps. I was also running a bit higher brace height and rubber spider leg silencers. Both of these will take some speed but it is a hunting bow and I prefer the silence over a bit of velocity. I suspect that most hunting bows are going to run 170-180 fps. You have to really be pushing it to get above 200 fps. Bog deep hooks on the limb tips, or long draw lengths

i have set world flight records using the same bow to shoot different weights by short drawing. if the bow is designed properly it has the same effeciency at 21-22 inches as it has at 33 inches. the longbows i shoot gain exactly the same rate from the first inch drawn past brace height to 30" and the drop 1#/inch after 30". actuall lose a bit at extreme draws. the draw "curve" for these bows is a straight line until 30" and then drops a bit.

Larry... what string material are you using?

Whatever I shoot is fast enough for my archery needs. Need to go faster... shoot a center-fire. <')))><

string material varies. not the deciding factor.

I was pleasantly surprised that my hatfield takedown shot l60 fps with a 375 grain arrow at my 26 inch draw at 38#. Using a l0 strand 450 plus flemish string. I thought those wide limbs would hinder performance. This is an older hat filed with red strip thru a very nice riser. I know its not the fastest but i am happy.

Faster than I can throw an arrow :)

I have crooned all my bows for funnies and they run from 126 to 189. 3 Martin Diablo takedowns, 2 wood recurves from 60s and 70s, New R/D Longbow. Shoot all of them about the same. Poorly. Working on it though. Randy

My bow is so fast you can't even see it. The arrow, OTOH, is a different matter entirely :-)

Mine are fast enough.

Mine are fast enough.

Toelke Chinook 56# @ 28. I'm drawing 30.5" and shooting a 540gr at 207 & 636gr at 196fps

I am with Ron. For us short draw guys with under 27", 160+ fps at 10 gpp is about right and would be considered quite respectable.

Fast enough to get the job done.

Hugh

I can get two shots off in 5 seconds or less. That's WAAAAY faster than most if all compounds, especially if they use a mechanical release!

Have never chronoed any of my bows but will be shortly after ordering a Caldwell chrono from Lancaster Archery. Don't really care how fast they are but have been curious as to their speed ever since getting back into trad.

GLF thanks a lot tried what you said,and gained 1 inch in draw.I had to get out my old arrows they are spined higher.

EagleWing Storm Eagle 60 in. 55 lb , 550 gr arrow 3 shots with Hooter Shooter by un afilitated tester pulled by machine to exactly 28 inches average 201 fps.

God bless,Steve

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