Im looking to get a horsebow of some sort. Scythian possibly, most are 32inch draw. My draw is 32" with a regular recurve. Should i get a longer draw length on a horsebow or is it the same? Do you anchor the same way with a horsebow? Do you suggest any particular one? Lets see yours. Thanks

Top one is a Ming 4, by Mariner (Gui Shunxing)

http://cinnabarbow.org/marinerbows/index.html

Bottom is a Saluki Damascus, by Lukas Novotny

Both a little over 52", both draw safely& easily to 32" (my draw is 31")

Saluki is 46# at my draw, the Ming about 60#. Both can be shot with fingers, but are more stable with thumb release.

Your own draw length will not change unless you change your technique, the thumb release can, and usually does, increase one's length by 2", in my case 3". My finger draw length is barely 28". You would never change your anchor pt. unless you change your shooting style, and yes, there are different anchor pts. for thumb draw archers- depending on which of the dozens of thumb release schools you go with. If you want to stick with fingers I would go with a longer model, but that's just me- lots of finger shooters are fine with short, but if you are drawing 32" with fingers you might get pinched with a 52" bow.

Mariner is still more affordable than Saluki,(but very close in quality, and has studied bowyery with Lukas) but of course I don't know your budget. DO NOT get cheap crap by unknown builders off of ebay. Lukas, Mariner, and Jaap Koppedreyer in Georgia (US!) are the only ones I would trust. Mariner has a great agent here in CA, (on the website linked above) a personal friend of mine and a hell of an archer in the Chinese Asiatic style. He will go out of his way to get you the right bow for the fairest price.

I'll post more pics if I can find any.

Good points from Runner. Are you planning to study mounted archery? A ton of fun if you have the time & resources. I don't, so functionally speaking my bows ain't "horse"- just "Static Tip Asiatic Reflex Horn Bow Style Replicas". There, isn't that easier to say than "Horsebow"? When using the thumb ring, I find that old Dual Shelf Bears- esp. the 60" Kodiaks from the 50's work very well, I shoot them right along with my Asiatics.

And here are the Ming and the Saluki strung up:

spitfire horsebows

spitfire horsebows

Look up White Wolf Archery. Look at the Wind Warrior under longbows, it is his version of a horsebow. I have shot one and it is a sweet shooter. I don't have this bow of his but have one of his other bows and his work detail is next to none.

Thanks for the info. I plan to use a thumb ring, so i would need one with a 34" draw. My recurve i currently shoot is only 52" long, i really like short bows there is some finger pinch but shooting 3 under eliminates alot of it. The wind warrior is a very sweet bow but i dont really want a shelf. Dan W thank you I think the mariner is perfect. Is there a long wait for one of these? Is there any handshock?

I've been shooting with the thumbring since 2004ish and I'd have to agree with EVERYTHING DanW has said!

I shoot a Saluki Turk 54" and its GREAT with my 30 inch thumbing draw but 34" -ehh, -may be a bit short. 32" split finger -no problem.

Peace! CR

Dan

Some of the horse bow shooters I know place the arrow on the opposite side of bow when shooting with a thumb ring. Is this a technique you've ever tried?

Look at the picture in Dan's post, yes he place's the arrow on the opposite which is how most do it except for some mongolian archers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev7U1f2H4JE#t=12

This little tutorial from Justin Ma (Mariner's US agent) should make the basics of thumb release clear.

Minor variations: Justin's specific thumb ring I use only for my right thumb, the one on my left (I shoot ambidextrously, long irrelevant story about that) is simpler, no raised lip on the edge for added thumb joint protection.

My particular style differs from Justin's in these minor points: I let my middle, ring, & little finger just droop down relaxed, (although I can curl them up like Justin). I rest the arrow on my bow hand index finger instead of the thumb knuckle. Justin is resurrecting the shooting style of the Ming dynasty archers- he is translating a method book from the 17th century that deals with this style of Archery, sometime early next year. Watch the Mariner website for updates.

Lucas (a little ways upthread) mentioned Spitfire Horsebows- I will talk about that only on pm's because of some unpleasantness on the LW a few years ago; but I learned my style- West Asian Hun/Cossack from that excellent master of the the bow; and it accords in all important aspects with the majority of Asian thumb release styles.

Phil- I can do it no other way; standard thumb release puts the arrow on opposite side of fingers- being the opposable digit it rolls the string- and of course the arrow with it- counter to the fingers. Also, the index finger keeps the arrow against the riser; as an adjustable "plunger button" so that one can work with the spine of the arrow in a direct way impossible with fingers.

In western hunting circles much has been made recently- right on the LW- about the small group of Mongolian master archers who are able- despite all the above mentioned factors- to shoot off the same side of the riser as finger shooters. I can't do it, no other group amongst all the other Asian archers does it, but Joel Turner can (and maybe a few others?) have mastered this very interesting wrinkle- and someday I hope to as well; but it seems to be limited to very still, deliberate shooting methods- not fast, highly mobile shooting, and certainly not from horseback.

Frank- no handshock whatsoever from Saluki or Mariner; but beware of some crappy bows out there that are built with solid, heavy fiber glass limbs and massive, "hockey stick" heavy wooden Siyahs- nothing by Jerry Hill could even come close! (I do own & like the "Hill Style" bows as well; I have two H.H. Wesleys and one Ferguson Safari that I now shoot mostly with the thumb release. No shelve on these either!)

Good info Dan. I second whatever you say.

Recently shot a saluki turk. That bow is amazing

I can only speak of Saluki's. Amazing is just one of the superlatives I could attach to the brand. Lukas builds a bow, that in my mind, stands alone among any other bow.

And I second whatever Jhoneil says!

You building any bows lately? Some of them looked real good.

Mstyles- I think of Saluki as the "Border Bows" for Asiatic thumb release archers. If it wasn't for Lukas Novotny I would want a Covert Hunter with a "Horsebow" type of handle riser. Kinda want one anyway- :-)

I've shot many arrows with a "horse" bow and thumb ring. But Jhoneil and DanW are the guys on this site to listen to.

I started a discussion about thumb release off the finger release side of the bow on the ATARN (Asian Traditional Archery Research Network) as practiced by a few of our Mongolian colleagues got some good answers. I recommend a little trip over there to all of you for some interesting information:

http://atarn.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=27686#27686

The guys on this site have a ton of information on all the Eastern archery styles & traditions. Be warned, some of it gets very scholarly & academic. But there are hunters in Asia who want to hunt with their traditional equipment again, and they post there as well.

I saw that over there (Atarn), love the video that you posted a link for.

Todd

Dan, how would you categorize the performance of the Mariner bow, as I have been considering purchase of one? Will

Will-

I would say that the Mariner Ming 4's I have owned and shot are right up there with comparative Salukis, specifically the "Damascus" that is my currant and only Saluki.. (I have never tried Lukas Novotny's horn bows- just the fiber glass "imitations"). In fact, the Mariner Ming 4 is even a little quieter than the Saluki. Performance looks/feels similar to Saluki- but the comparison is a little lopsided as the Mariner is 15lbs. heavier draw wt. than the Saluki. But the Saluki has a snap to it like no other bow, and many archers find them to be "too twitchy"- I know what they mean, but I have no trouble with it. In that regard, the Mariner may be a little more "user friendly". Kind of like a Bear Kodiak vs. a Damon Howatt Hunter,

I am partial to the Ming Dynasty reproductions, the Han Wind is based on a much earlier non-contact long static tip model, the Khotan Bow, a design about 1,000 years older than the Ming. But the Han Dynasty bows are very popular with Mariner's customers; they are very good but just don't turn my crank like the Ming, which is closer to the classic Turkish designs.

Check out the Mariner website, lots of info on it. Also, it should have contact info for Justin Ma, Mariner's US agent here in CA.

Dan, thanks for the reply. Your estimate of the Ming Moon 4 being more "user friendly" goes along with another Ming shooter that said the same thing when comparing the Ming Moon to the Korean Hwarang, saying the Ming was more "user friendly" but the Hwaring would shoot circles around it, as far as speed goes. Do you have any experience with the Hwarang?

The Hwarangs are faster theoretically since it does not heavy siyahs like the Ming. It also have less handshock I think but that is subjective. However, I find that the Ming is more accurate since the arrow pass is narrower. You can't go wrong with either bows.

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