From: George D. Stout
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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Do you guys know this bow or its maker?
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From: Steve Milbocker
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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That is a cool looking bow George.Very unique.
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From: Bernie P.
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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I thought Fred only built longbows?
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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Not mine, but I'm trying to find out who made it. It's on the big auction site and ends tonight. First thought was Fasco, but I need the guys help.
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From: RymanCat
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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Wow let us know this sure is beautiful.Lately I just can't get enough of classics. Been learning to really appreciate these bows when I see them and learn. Also theres just something about colored glass as well guess I started with my Drakes.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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Bernie, Fred was a bowyer for FASCO in the 1960's.
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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I saw that one George and also thought FASCO, or someone who wanted to be like them. I decided it was just a little too baroque for my tastes; I'd have to go at it with a rasp and make it look more like the old Wing Presentation before I could really love it. Plus... anything with turquoise glass puts you in Frisky's neighborhood, which I try hard to avoid.
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From: Rooty
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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LMAO
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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Ahhh, the legend of the north is everpresent in our lives. ))
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From: dire wolf
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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Geo..Nothing on the limbs or riser ..not even nomenclature as to draw weight?.. Think it's been refinished?..The color of the fiberglas takes it back before the 70's for sure..but who made it?..Haven't a clue.. It is nicely done..a lot of laminations added to riser for the handsection etc..Jim
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From: Dkincaid
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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I saw that if it was longer I'd be all over it.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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The turquoise color was used by several companies back then...early 60's to mid. Howatt had similar glass, as did Wing and probably many others. It has a deep recurve and looks well done. Figured Fred or Larry would have a clue.
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From: Frisky
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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Nice bow with beautiful glass! You can see Drake influence, so I too will go with Fasco.
Joe
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From: Frisky
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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I went over and took a look. It has the "power lams" in the limb ends. However, they look like a glass layer and not a wood lam like on Drakes. I also don't care for the black tip overlays. They don't look like Drake.
Joe
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From: Pdiddly
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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I have that bow on my watch list and was also wondering about it's provenance...it has a nice design and is great work but I too was put off (immediately) by that phallic outcropping on the riser...if it came into my possession that would have to go despite the effort put into the multiple lams laid down solely to create it.
In the second to right picture the glass on the belly looks like it has no finish on it and has minor rough spots, maybe from use, but is not smooth and perfect like the riser. Might be the picture.
The string grooves are interesting...well done and and where they should be but don't look like they were done by someone who has filed dozens of them for a living...not ultra smooth and slick.
All this and the use of the tip wedges from glass makes me think it's the creation of a skilled amateur (who knew what they wanted) for their own use, especially with the lack of any markings.
And I could be completely F.O.S. too!
Someone else will be the lucky owner...just watching and learning!
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From: skookum
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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George, it looks like an interesting bow; but I have no idea who made it. FRED
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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Thanks Fred. Hope Larry drops by also. I guess it could be a home made bow, but it sure is intricate.
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From: larryhatfield
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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really have no clue. hi fred!!!
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From: Jay B
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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George, there was an article years ago in Instinctive Archer magazine, with bows that had a similar look, I believe they were Royal Scots, made by George Birnie of Scotland, who also made bows here in the US, in Texas I think.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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Well then, we do have a mystery on our hands. LOL. To anyone interested, the auction ends tonight, and you can find it under Archery/vintage. I'm not interested in getting it, just where it came from.
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From: SCOPUS
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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that knob makes think of Groves,,,???
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From: Slick
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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It looks like an old Crovatti Brothers bow to me.Dang i don't know if i spelled that right.
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From: Slick
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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If i remember those brothers were out of Pennsylvania.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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I've seen Cravotta Brothers, Black Hawk bows for half a century, and have never seen any like that.
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From: Slick
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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George i gave one away that looked very close to that one,a couple years ago.Limb color was the same and it to had a wild looking grip.It had no name or weight or #'s of any kind.Never did know who made it,it was unique and beautiful.
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From: dire wolf
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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Well, I won that uniquely well done recurve the other day..
Hasn't arrived yet..BUT I think it may be a recurve designed by George Birnie.. A Scot who designed bows for Pearson and other US bow mfgrs years back..
Here's a link to a website gallery that shows many of his recurves..The work on the riser-handsections are very similar to the mystery recurve..Take the time to put the link up and look and see what you think..Jim
http://archeryduns.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=12838245
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From: dire wolf
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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Here's one of the many pics of Geo Birnie's recurves ..Compare the bottom one with the pic Geo Stout posted ..Jim
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From: buddyb
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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Possibly a staghorn
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From: Raymo
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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I have seen one other like it..that bow didn't have any markings on it either..
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From: buster v davenport
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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Would be considered a 'cheater' bow at some shoots because of the laminations on the belly side of the riser.
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From: Pdiddly
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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I went and looked up Birnie's bows after Jay B posted and went to the same site Jim listed...interesting similarities...the lack of writing on the bow is odd...I wonder if it was refinished? Can't wait to hear about it once you have it in hand Jim!
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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What is a cheater bow, buster? Something to do with shooting rules?
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From: buster v davenport
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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George, the laminations on the riser could be used for a gapper's advantage. Not allowed in NFAA barebow competition or competitive bowhunter division.
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From: Pdiddly
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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Wing Presentation "outlaw" from another thread...
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From: Pdiddly
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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Side view...
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From: Pdiddly
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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Jim actually has a Wing Swift...a model that I understand was also outlawed from competition about the same time as the Presentation due to the possibility of the lams being utilized as sights for gap shooting...this I gleaned from a thread on this Wall discussing Jim acquiring a beautiful Thunderbird with the "bowling ball" riser, as Jim calls it!
It's called "Wing Archery Thunderbird Recurve."
http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/TF/lw/thread2.cfm? forum=23&threadid=246919&category=
Anyway the quotes from the thread from "Kelly are: " My mistake the Swift Wing of dire wolf's is a 1960 or 61. They were in fact outlawed after the 1961 Nationals by NFAA."
"Well actually the Presentation was outlawed because of all those laminations on the sight window the same as yours. NFAA said archers in the instinctive class could use those lams for sights. During the 1961 Nationals the Wing Presentation in the hands of its shooters took nearly all the top places in each category."
This is really fascinating stuff to me...I really like the history and how it keeps popping up!
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From: dire wolf
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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Pdiddly...When I get the old bow and loo it over and make a new proper bowstring..I'll post some pics.. Inasmuch as it supposedly has no nomenclature on it presently..It possibly was refinished..I'll know more when I have it in hand..JIM
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From: Pdiddly
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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Jim:I just posted quotes from another thread you started concerning your acquisition of your Thunderbird...that thread helped me immensely when I was setting up my `67 55# T Bird.
Can't wait to hear how the mystery bow shoots and looks once you have it!
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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The PSAA would let archers cover belly lams with one color tape and still use the bow. That was a while back though, so don't know if it still is that way. Lots of things have changed since I competed in field archery.
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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Pdiddly, Thanks for that info on the Swift Wing. I have one on eBay right now that must be even older than that one of Dire Wolf's (from the old thread you referenced); it's an eleven-lam riser but they're layed up like the old Pearsons; so they don't work as belly lams. This decal had the "314 S. 7th" Houston address on it-- or as JJ told me, "when Bob was making them in his garage."
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From: roger
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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Looking at that bow affects me in a way that I'm unsure of, but very cool to be certain. :).......Jim, let us know.
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From: Catskills
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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As cool-looking as this bow is, there's something about the grip that looks like it does not feel as smooth and "ergonomic" as the bows from bowyers mentioned on this thread.
So I would guess a talented amateur, in my very VERY humble opinion.
Great thread.
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From: Pdiddly
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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The work of a very skilled amateur is what I concluded as well...and I added that I may be totally F.O.S and stand to be corrected!
I found the grip off-putting as well but it is a beautiful bow and Jim's been around trad bows way longer than I have...so we shall see.
CrookedStix...that bow is on my watch list...wish it was a little heavier but you never know!
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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I think it was well done whoever did it, and I won't rule out Sanders Archery from Cortland, New York. They were known to do special orders...customs, and some very intricate riser work. Here's an unusual one by Sanders.
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From: dire wolf
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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I think I have a moderate 45# Swift Wing similar to the one shown by Crokkedstix..:) It's long..68" ntn ..and pretty smooth..Jim
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From: dire wolf
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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and a different view..Jim
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From: dire wolf
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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and the logo..Jim
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From: larryhatfield
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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nobody has remarked about the wood. looks like a hickory beam and black walnut in the photo. if it is, i would say , yes, a non commercial person probably made it.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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Could be Larry, but not his first rodeo either. 8)
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From: buster v davenport
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Date: 23-Nov-14 |
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This is from the1976 N.F.A.A. rule book:
3. Competitive Bowhunter Division:
a) This division is the revised Heavy Tackle Division for those wishing to compete with equipment normally used during hunting activities. Youth Bowhunters shall not be recognized.
d) No clickers or draw check will be allowed. No laminations, level, marks or blemishes may appear in the sight window, upper limb or in the field of vision at full draw.
e) A sight window may be altered from standard configuration providing that no laminations, blemishes, protrusions, or any identifiable mark that could be used for any aiming reference is visible.
f) String shall be one color only. A center serving of one other color may be used. One consistent nocking point only is permitted.
g) One anchor point only is permitted.
h) An archer shall hold the arrow when nocked in the TRADITIONAL manner, i.e., index finger above the nock and middle finger below the nock, except in cases of physical deformity or handicap for which special dispensation shall be made.
Three of the archers I know of from my area were NY state Heavy Tackle Division Champions in the '60s. Ted Thomas Jr. and Ken Schrader were from the Canisteo Valley Archers, the club I belonged to, and 'Skip' Palmer was from the Dansville, NY club, 20 miles from me. 'Skip' was a former PAA president and along with Bob Rhode, the first recipients of the Karl E. Palmiter Award in the Archery Hall of Fame. 'Skip' was also a regional salesman for Wing.
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 23-Nov-14 |
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I love that last rule!! They might as well have added, "All you three-under freaks...take a hike."
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From: crookedstix
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Date: 23-Nov-14 |
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I love that last rule!! They might as well have added, "All you three-under freaks...take a hike."
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From: buster v davenport
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Date: 23-Nov-14 |
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There are actually 15 rules in this revision. The ones I left out pertain to arrows, arrow rests, arrowheads, bow quivers, brush buttons, silencers, stabilizers, Field captains and rounds used.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 23-Nov-14 |
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1976? Okay then, I thought you were posting new rules and regs. I competed in PSAA, which used much of the NFAA rules, but didn't belong to the NFAA. Pa. for some reason didn't affiliate so it was probably political reasons of some sort. When the PSAA instituted the Bowhunter Barebow class, it allowed elevated rests as long as they weren't more than 1/4" above the arrow. Like the NFAA, the strings couldn't have multiple colors, and you couldn't have markings of any kind on the riser that could aid in aiming. We usually had great turnouts in Bowhunter class but the majority were sight shooters in freestyle. Barebow class was about 1/3 the amount of shooters but still very competitive.
Three under was okay as long as they kept the same anchor on the face and the same hold on the string. This was in the bowhunter class, not the regular barebow class that allowed all the vagaries of barebow shooting...string walking, face walking, etc.
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