From: Peter Darby
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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In light of the other survival thread I thought I would start another one that people can talk about lessens they learned. My wife and I had spend the day canoeing in the cold rain. We finally decided to call it quits and I set up camp. I got my fire fixings together and proceeded to try and get a fire going. Several matches later I was still trying. I sat back with a cup of fresh coffee (gotta love my 1970s SVEA stove) and looked at my pile of sticks. I decided that my problem was an inability to apply heat to my tinder long enough for it to catch. Now for twenty+ years I had been carrying around a small survival pouch which I had never had to use. One of the things in it was a candle lantern candle. I cut off one half inch of candle swept my tinder out of the teepee fire and lit the stub. By the time I finished my coffee I had a nice warm campfire going. It wasn't enough to check my survival eqpuipment periocidally. I need to actually think about why it is there.
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From: dire wolf
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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Periodically, I and my sons have worked with the search & rscue teams in several counties here in Oregon..Multnomah & Clackamas counties( sheriffs offices)One of the things we tsrive to do is to impart basic survival skills to those conduction the searches..Everything from clothing and footwear to firestarting to emergency shelters( including snow caves) and surviving without hypothermia in colder wet weather while we search for folks probably in worse condition than we are..
Your survival skills and gear are only as beneficial as your ability to deploy-use it..Soon get the theoretical stuff separated from the real world practical stuff..:) Jim
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From: Backcountry
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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Uh...how did you get your Svea stove lit??
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From: Foo-E
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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I carry a table candle stub in all my jackets for that reason alone
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From: GF
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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Sveas run off of white gas. It's not particularly difficult to get THAT stuff going...
I've watched a couple of episodes of a new(?) show called "Dude, You're Screwed"... Premise is that there are 4-6 survival experts who take turns getting dropped off in the middle of nowhere with an extremely limited kit, and they have 100 hours to get to outside help or they lose the game... No maps or compasses, because that would make it too easy for these guys.
Not that the film crew isn't carrying sat phones and GPS with a helo standing by in case anybody gets hurt, but they're not supposed to offer any kind of assistance until the competitor taps out with hypothermia or an imminent heat stroke.
Anyway, it's really fun to see how these guys improvise, such as shredding a few inches of rope into individual strands to make a bread-crumb trail...
Nice thing about canoeing - shelter is already built...
Jim - somehow, if I were lost in the boonies of Oregon, I think having you out there looking for me would be a significant plus... Not nearly as good as having you and Larry Hatfield as hunting partners, of course, but that would probably eliminate the possibility of getting lost in the first place...
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From: Selden Slider
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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I'm wondering why you didn't use the stove to ignite a twig to start the fire. Frank
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From: dire wolf
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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One of the most challengeing searches we did was coordinated with Tillamook County back in Oct of 2004.. Jeromy Childress..Look at this link..
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/childress_jeromy.html
He went missing during a rifle elk hunting trip above the Nestucca watershed while hunting with two other friends..
We were also hunting then and close to where they were..and I know that country like the back of my hand..
He was an accomplished, fit young man with a wife and children..Had some experience in the forest..
He simply dropped off the face of the earth when he left his partners to cut downhill cross country to get back to camp..which was less than 2 miles away as darkness closed in..BUT rough, tangled country even in daylight..
Never did feel like his remains are still out there..I think he purposfully 'disappeared'..
Took his widow several years to get him declared dead so his estate and insurance was avaialble to his family..
And then we searched for Miranda Gaddis and Ashley Pond up along Newell Creek below Oregon City..We didn't find them..Turned out a neighbow had lured the two teenage girls with drugs and then after raping them and abusing them..had buried one under a concret slab in his backyard and stuffed the other girl's body in a 55 gallon drum..He's in prison for life now..Ward Weaver..Should have exectuted that sob back when..Not all searches and survival situations turn out very rosily..:).. Hunters, hikers go missing out here all the time..Sometimes they ARE found in spite of the odds and weather and time that would have them be food for the bugs and predator-scavengers..Jim
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From: scs
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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Kind of wondered the same thing.
Steve
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From: dire wolf
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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GF...Even in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam..I have never been lost..:)..There have been times when I did check the compass & maps and get reoriented..:)Jim
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From: South Farm
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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I'm wondering why you didn't use the stove to ignite a twig to start the fire. Frank
x2??
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From: Peter Darby
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Date: 20-Nov-14 |
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There are often several paths to the same destination. The candle was easy, and the stove was occupied making coffee. I could have used some of the spare fuel or made a fuzz stick, carved some tinder from the inside of a stick, used cotton bandage as tinder or put the cross points of the teppee higher and used the stove itself as an ignitor. All would have worked but the candle once lit required no effort. I ddn't even have to stand since my knife and survival pouch were on my belt.
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From: Backcountry
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Date: 21-Nov-14 |
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I thought my point was rather obvious. Somehow the stove got lit despite the defective matches. It could have then been used to get the tinder going. The coffee-making would have waited a bit if it were me.
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From: GF
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Date: 21-Nov-14 |
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One thing you gotta know about me, Ken - never underestimate my ability to overlook the obvious!!
Personally, whether the fire would trump the coffee would depend on the time of day. the number of hours since my last cup, and how cold I was....
But yeah, if I had the stove rockin' I probably would have just let that flame do the work and save the candle for a time when I didn't have the stove with me.... Unless I was really low on gas....
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From: Crossed Arrows
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Date: 21-Nov-14 |
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I really like my Svea 123, also. There are many more modern, lighter weight stoves that are easier to light, but I like the classics.
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From: MGF
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Date: 21-Nov-14 |
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IMO being able to get a fire going quickly is one of the most important skills. You can stay fairly comfortable in some pretty lousy conditions with nothing more than a big fire. Add a lean-to to hold some heat and keep the rain off your head and you can be downright cozy.
It's good to know the good tinders available in the area you're in. We have a lot of river birch around here and I carry a small bag of it in my pack. I replenish my supply as needed when I come across a birch tree. Shaving and scrapings work fine but it takes time and dulls your knife. I also carry a few greased cotton balls. They burn hot and long.
The point is that you should collect your tinder BEFORE you need it.
Ignition is another matter. A bic lighter is easy as long as they don't get wet or too cold. I always have a couple with me but I don't really trust them.
For reliability and ease of use, I like a ferro rod. However, like a lighter, you have to get it from a store.
All things considered, flint and steel is probably my favorite. Quartz will work in place of flint and we have quartz laying all over the place. Any hard piece of steel will work...from an old file to the spine of a good carbon steel knife. I forge some nice flint strikers but I don't need one of those to start a fire.
The down side to flint and steel is that you usually need some pre-charred tinder to get an ember going. Then you need some good tinder that you can blow to flame from the ember.
Fire making with these methods is something we practice a lot in the back yard.
When you're cold or maybe even hurt isn't the time to find out you need practice.
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From: Codjigger
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Date: 21-Nov-14 |
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Good advice mgf:-agreed,never rely on a lighter. Way back in the 70's we were up moose hunting,three fellows we knew from another camp tipped their boat while fishing,all three were smokers all three had lighters.When they got ashore they couldn't get the lighters to work. By luck we just happened to come by,if we hadn't done so they would have died from hypthermia they were in such a bad condition.we got them in my van and turned the heater on full blast,but we couldn'persuade them to take of their wet clothes until we got to our rough camp where we built a big fire to thaw them out. As luck should have it a few years later one of them became my captain on the Toront Fire Dept and I often got to remind him how I saved his life!. Yes I always carry a lighter but my magnesium/sparker is what I rely on. Sandy
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From: reddogge
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Date: 21-Nov-14 |
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For those who haven't worked with flint and steel here are some tips. I kept mine in a small tin made for that purpose along with char cloth and jute rope. The jute makes a great tinder when shredded and pulled apart. To make char cloth put a bunch of cotton gun cleaning patches in a small metal tea tin with some holes punched in the top and throw it into a fire. When the smoke stops coming out of the holes the char cloth is done. Put that into your tin with the flint and steel and jute rope.
Make a nest of jute rope and put a piece of char cloth in the middle. Strike the flint on the steel throwing sparks onto the char cloth. When one catches on the cloth blow on it until it will ignite the tinder and then put the burning tinder in your little fire teepee.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 21-Nov-14 |
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If you are going to be in a boat,a there is always a chance of getting very wet...a person should think that through to start with. Seems like someone wasn't thinking ahead. A film canister will hold about a dozen or so small birthday candles and a few matches with strike plate. Butane lighters are pretty dependable, just keep a couple in a ziploc bag. I like convenience and never had one fail.
Also keep tinder of some kind in a separate ziploc, or vacuum seal it for more protection. Cotton balls, dryer lint, and you can even make some firestarters with sawdust and parafin. You rarely have to use it anyway, but it doesn't take up much weight. I've started several fires with one of my stashed Bic lighters when matches wouldn't work.
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From: Stan
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Date: 21-Nov-14 |
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Yes, I love my Svea as well... With snow on the ground, it is time to fire her up!!
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From: Codjigger
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Date: 21-Nov-14 |
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No George these fellows certainly were't thinking;it was a couple of days before the moose opener and they were drinking;no life jackets.my later Fire captain told me that they rolled the boat when one fellow fell on top af the other who was resisting his advances!!! They were smart enough to hang on to the overturned boat until they reached shore,by this time they had lost all felling in their hands .Their truck was an old volkswagon..no body no heat.Lloyd said that he could never have gotten the keys out of his pocket and even if he could have started it they could never have made the 10 mile drive to our camp. I have often thought about fate and what fate means and that is surely a good example.We had just stopped on our way back from scouting for moose sign to see how they were doing with the fishing,not seeing any sign of them we were just getting back in my van to leave when my friend heard a shout.looking back we saw them just coming out of the bush and two of them were dragging the other fellow.10 seconds more and with our doors closed we wouldn'nt have heard or seen them. Lloyd said if we had left they were dead men for sure..Fate?? Sandy
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From: Andy Man
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Date: 21-Nov-14 |
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lay about 4 to 6 paper towesl on a sleet of aluminum foil , pour melted parafin over and it will soak and saturate the towells
cut in to little squares when cooled can light the edge like a candle and put under tinder
water dosent affect, thin , light and easy to carry for emergency
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 21-Nov-14 |
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Codjigger, yep...they were accidents looking for a place to happen. Darwin award may be appropriate.
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From: camodave
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Date: 21-Nov-14 |
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The Coghlin company makes "matches" that will burn for up to 7 minutes...nice self contained fire starters
DDave
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From: camodave
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Date: 21-Nov-14 |
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The company name is actually Coghlans and the product is called Fire Starter...Coghlans is a Canadian company but they sell on line as well and possibly have some outlets in the US...their whole line of products is worth a look for anyone who spends time outdoors
DDave
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From: Stikbow
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Date: 21-Nov-14 |
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I use birthday candles. Most people building survival fire only put enough burnable sstuff aside for one blaze. I teach bring in a tree or two before attempting a fire start. They also do not protect the area they try to start a fire from wind or miosture. None of this is rocket science-just common sense. yeah ain't all that common. My search and resuce teams have brought down some really, increditably, unprepared people-some on stretchers. first rule of wilderness: DO NOT DO STUPID STUFF-EVER.
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From: Stikbow
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Date: 21-Nov-14 |
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I use birthday candles. Most people building survival fire only put enough burnable sstuff aside for one blaze. I teach bring in a tree or two before attempting a fire start. They also do not protect the area they try to start a fire from wind or miosture. None of this is rocket science-just common sense. yeah ain't all that common. My search and resuce teams have brought down some really, increditably, unprepared people-some on stretchers. first rule of wilderness: DO NOT DO STUPID STUFF-EVER.
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From: LaGriz
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Date: 21-Nov-14 |
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+ 1 on the little stove
I graduated high school in 1973. That makes My Svea 123 about 42 years old, leftover from my Explorer Scout days. We had the good fortune to have a Vietnam vet as a leader and I can't say enough how greatful I am for his time, effort, and expense.
Rick Skoonover thanks again! As a bunch of young guys we lacked the means to have the adventures, activites, and good times we enjoyed as Explorers. Hiking in the White Mts. -canoe trips - Winter camping/hunting in the Mt. of Western Mass. It was always something going on. That Svea stove is just a reminder of that time for me.
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!
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From: MStyles
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Date: 21-Nov-14 |
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There is only one way I like to start a fire quickly, a safety flare. How can you beat something that will lite quickly, hard to put out, burns very hot and if you get the truck ones, burns a long time? My son and I would get to a decent place in the woods, clear a space for a fire, dig a small hole, place some rocks around the fire pit, ignite the flare, stick it in the hole, and start throwing twigs,etc on the fire. It gets the fire going while you're rounding up enough wood for dinner and for the nite. I do have a glad bag with a rod and striker and a ball of dryer lint as a back up. But the flare, to me, is literally the hot setup.
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From: MGF
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Date: 22-Nov-14 |
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reddogge said..."For those who haven't worked with flint and steel here are some tips. I kept mine in a small tin made for that purpose along with char cloth and jute rope. The jute makes a great tinder when shredded and pulled apart. To make char cloth put a bunch of cotton gun cleaning patches in a small metal tea tin with some holes punched in the top and throw it into a fire. When the smoke stops coming out of the holes the char cloth is done. Put that into your tin with the flint and steel and jute rope. Make a nest of jute rope and put a piece of char cloth in the middle. Strike the flint on the steel throwing sparks onto the char cloth. When one catches on the cloth blow on it until it will ignite the tinder and then put the burning tinder in your little fire teepee. "
That's an effective method but I like to use charred punk wood. It may be slightly more difficult but there is plenty of punk wood free for the picking all over the woods.
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From: Fisher
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Date: 26-Nov-14 |
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Try carrying a small jet lighter. I have one that fills with butane and has a screw on lid. It is made by Brunton and is waterproof. It has a fuel guage window. the flame is adjustable and burns in a pointed jet that can be directed at your tinder. Of course, always carry two backups.
A thorough well thought out survival kit can is very important. Of course, it can save your life, and additionally, it can make you comfortable in non survival situations. When conditions change, you can make hot tea, have a snack, or get warm. Always remember to replenish any supplies used.
Best wishes.
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From: Valley Scout
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Date: 26-Nov-14 |
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If I've read everything above correctly, the lesson you all are teaching is BACK-UPS MATTER. Take multiple methods of creating fire into the backwoods. That is something I learned years ago in Scouting.
I'm glad to see a few more threads about wilderness survival.
This is a pretty good thread.
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From: Ron Brandyberry
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Date: 26-Nov-14 |
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When I was a Boy Scout at my first summer camp we were scheduled for fire building class which I assumed would be canceled due to the pouring rain. We arrived at our gathering area and were greeted my an elderly grey haired gentleman wearing a poncho and directing us to follow him. As we followed a trail through the woods he casually snapped off small twigs as we went. After our arrival at a clearing he pulled out one match and within seconds had the small bunch of twigs in his hand ablaze in a most comforting glowing little fire and yes it was still pouring rain. I went on to become an Eagle Scout and learned much but the one experience that has stood out the most is that fire building lesson. Now, 50 years later, if we're in the woods and have but one match I'll have a warm fire for us in no time. With no matches will take a little longer. That's one I never really mastered.
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From: Bode
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Date: 26-Nov-14 |
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I have a Mora light my fire knife in my pack all the time and a small pill bottle with cotton balls I have rubbed vasoline on. They light very easy and burn quite awhile. Got the Mora knife on sale for $20.
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From: reddogge
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Date: 26-Nov-14 |
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MFG, never tried the punk wood to catch a spark. I'll give it a try though. I like the char cloth because it's easy to make and stores well in my kit.
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From: N. Y. Yankee
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Date: 26-Nov-14 |
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Charred punk wood is a lot like charcloth, only more fuel in the chunk. Also get some pine fatwood to scrape or peel off shavings for tinder. Great stuff.
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From: PeteA
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Date: 26-Nov-14 |
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For all my day long hunting trips I carry a very small ziploc bag with 3 cotton ball slathered with petroleum jelly. I also carry a couple alcohol wipes in my FAK. Both will light with just a spark from a lighter or a fire steel and stay lit for minutes.
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From: SWAG
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Date: 26-Nov-14 |
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A Camp Ripley MS. Survival School tip on starting a fire. Start a fire in any weather condition. Take a 9volt battery an some steel wool. Touch the two together an it will burn even if steel wool is wet. DO NOT STORE BATTERY/STEEL WOOL TOGEATHER!! INSTANT FIRE HAZARD!!
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From: MGF
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Date: 27-Nov-14 |
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A couple of flint/steel spark catchers that don't need to be charred. Milk week ovum, a very thin slice of mullein pith, cotton ball with some fine steel wool mixed in.
Another thing in your pack that makes a GREAT fire starter/extender...potato chips, corn chips or whatever. They're loaded with grease and they burn like crazy!
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From: shade mt
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Date: 27-Nov-14 |
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I have said this over and over and over again...Its one thing to play survival, like a kid playing army.
But its a whole different matter when its real bullets, ....
Or your really in an honest to goodness survive or die situation.
Its rather easy to remain calm and collect, when your just wet and cold, and uncomfortable and you can always just walk back to the truck.
It's a whole TOTALLY!! different matter when your hands are so cold they become numb and clumsy, your shaking uncontrollably...and help is a long way off.
Your dropped off in the bush and 80mph winds have just shredded your tent.
When you and your gear have become wet, and its no longer just an "uncomfortable situation"......its a life threatening situation.
Nothing prepares a person how to survive better than actually being outdoors, actually being out during extreme weather, actually knowing, actually having REAL! experience. actually having the physical and mental endurance to tuff it out, stay calm and survive.
You don't get that folks by sitting around watching football on the recliner, or reading about it on the internet...
Every year i see people heading out, you see them on, YOUTUBE or wherever their gonna play survival, spend the night in the snowy woods. So off they go in their ski suits, trekking poles, Ozark trail tents, looking fresh out of the LL Bean catalog.
Most times its a pleasurable experience, but you just know, if something "would" actually happen....the rescue team has to go in and get them, and we see them on the 6:00 news bundled up in blankets sipping hot chocolate, while medical personnel check their vitals.
Don't kid yourself folks.
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From: shade mt
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Date: 27-Nov-14 |
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And along with that post. One of the key abilities to survival and knowing how to survive, is not doing anything dumb enough to require it. But i guess that goes back to my point on "experience"
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From: Traxx
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Date: 28-Nov-14 |
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HERE HERE!!!!
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From: dire wolf
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Date: 28-Nov-14 |
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ShadeMtn..Good post!.. Trick is HOW to learn before ya find yourself in one of those life threatening situations..That's NOT the best time to learn IF your gear( or you) are up to the survival tasks required..
Some military training with the better trained units..or working with the S&R teams in one's area really are helpful..
Reading and talking to those who have the experiences and training can help one select the gear as well as develop the mindset and stay in physical condition so that the risks are far lessened in dire straits..Jim
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From: lawdy
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Date: 28-Nov-14 |
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In 1972, I was checking out an old orchard with my 7 year old daughter when I stood on a stone wall because I heard something below us. Just then I spotted two guys with their rifles pointed at me. I twisted around to push my daughter to the ground as they fired. One bullet went through my jacket and the other went through my crotch. I fell back and landed on a thin sapling cut off as a marker. It went up my butt and exited through my abdomen. They ran over thinking they shot at a deer, saw me laying their and my daughter screaming, and ran. The sapling broke off and I crawled 200 yards to my truck with my little girls help. She drove my truck to a house a half mile away and got help. All my kids drove tractors and jittneys on our farm thankfully, so she was no stranger to driving. I survived because I am a stubborn cuss and was determined to find out who those hunters were. Never found out. Some of us don't go down without a fight, and some just go down. The thing that really pissed me off was that I planned to make the Army my career and that cut it short, but everything worked out.
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From: dire wolf
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Date: 28-Nov-14 |
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Lawdy... I think we have all heard about hunters who arrow or rifle shoot something other than the wild game they are tagged to hunt..
I consider that to be absolutely irresponsible-criminal.. NO excuse for useing firearms irresponsibly for a target..OR without considering where that bullet may go should it pass thru or overshoot the target..Sorry that happened to you back when..Glad you survived..and you had some help to get you out of there for treatment..Jim
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From: Fisher
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Date: 29-Nov-14 |
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Shade mt - I hope your comments are taken seriously and understood because there is much wisdom.
I have saved lives that would have otherwise been lost. I have rescued others before conditions became near death.
I have safely taken myself, wife, and son to the wilderness and back many times. Always prepared for when the nitty gets gritty. Only one time relied on another - a guide who let us down. Still was able to take care of business and get home with a bit of discomfort.
Enjoy safely. Best wishes.
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From: MGF
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Date: 29-Nov-14 |
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Runner, I don't think the bow or hand drill is a forgotten art. They're just not very handy to carry as a "backup" while in the woods to hunt or something.
The time to make and test a bow or hand drill set is long before you need it. Then it's a pain to carry it around keeping it safe and dry.
you can certainly make one in the woods with your knife (or even without a knife) but, depending on where you are) you may have to cover a lot of ground in order to find suitable materials.
When I learned the bow drill I realized that I didn't have suitable material on the property at all. I made the set from store bought lumber. Pine works fine regardless of what you might here.
I only tried a hand drill once and the mullein stalks I was trying to use for a spindle didn't hold up to the task. Tore my hands up before I got an ember going.
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From: MGF
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Date: 29-Nov-14 |
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Shade mt,
The thing is you need to practice the individual skills when it isn't a life or death situation.
I don't think of this stuff so much as "survival" as I do woodmen ship.
Yes, the first step is to avoid problems. Being able to quickly start a fire or being able to quickly put up some sort of shelter can prevent a situation from ever becoming a real survival situation.
Knowing what to carry, how to carry it and how to use it can make all the difference.
I think I told the story but my wife and I flipped our canoe in December (Indiana).
That could kill you but we were prepared so it was just an inconvenient end to the afternoon's fishing. A half hour later we were dry and warm under a lean-to in front of a nice fire cooking our supper.
Obviously, serious injury could render you unable to do much of anything for yourself.
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From: THRC
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Date: 29-Nov-14 |
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Back to the Svea 123- When I was a young lance coolie in Iceland, the Svea and other gasoline stoves were all we used out on the glaciers and boonies. Butane and propane didn't work unless kept inside the sweater or coat. I tried the Gaz stove, and it froze up and quit when snow training. In bad weather, gasoline stoves seem to work the best, IMHO
Tinhorn
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From: Mr.Griz
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Date: 29-Nov-14 |
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I have two Svea's/ One is a 123R, the other a 123. I like the 123 best. Any comments?
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From: Stan
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Date: 29-Nov-14 |
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I constantly keep an eye out for the older version.. I own the r.. have become quite familiar with it, and it now simmers beautifully, and shuts off correctly.. What a little power house!!
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From: aromakr
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Date: 29-Nov-14 |
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I have to believe a very small percentage of those that have commented on this thread have ever tried to start a fire when they were cold, shivering and almost hypothermic, If you had you, you might have realized there is only one comment to this thread that will save your bacon, and that's the "Road flair". No matter how cold you are you get instant fire that wind or rain will not put out. I learned this from an old outfitter many years ago. Bob
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From: lawdy
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Date: 29-Nov-14 |
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Hunted today and built a fire with my magnesium firestarter, boiled some water and had a tea and hot dogs for lunch. Do it all the time when trapping with my 8 year old granddaughter to teach her skills. I do it a lot while hunting to keep the skills up plus nothing beats a hot cup of Earl Grey when it is cold. I boil my water in one of those stainless steel mugs. Practice makes perfect when you really need a fire.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 29-Nov-14 |
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Training is best done before you get in a situation where you are potentially screwed. If you wait till you are cold, shivering and almost hypothermic, you probably waited dang near too long. "Training" ahead if time teaches you to understand the predicament before it becomes too dangerous. All of the scare tactics don't help...solid training does, and you don't need to be on top of a mountain in the Alaska Range to get it. Common sense, which is missing badly nowadays, will kick in if folks get an understanding of how serious a night in the woods can be.
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From: MGF
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Date: 30-Nov-14 |
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"I have to believe a very small percentage of those that have commented on this thread have ever tried to start a fire when they were cold, shivering and almost hypothermic, If you had you, you might have realized there is only one comment to this thread that will save your bacon, and that's the "Road flair". No matter how cold you are you get instant fire that wind or rain will not put out. I learned this from an old outfitter many years ago. Bob "
I guess I'd be dead if a road flare was the only way.
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From: Stan
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Date: 30-Nov-14 |
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Well folks, anything can and does happen, and if you wander into unfamiliar territiory the unknown does happen... A slip and fall into water,or an injury to a wrist or hand to boot, in below freezing temps. can and will change the game for you.. Sometimes our planning for things, always has us under control..in just the small scenario I laid out above, suddenly something like a small flare doesn't sound so silly does it?
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From: MGF
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Date: 01-Dec-14 |
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I carry three ways to start a fire. A lighter, a ferro rod and flint/steel...along with an assortment of tinders and/or starters/accelerants.
There's no reason not to use a bow drill or a fire piston if that's what you're comfortable with.
There's nothing silly about using a flare but I've fallen into cold water and was able to get a fire going quickly without one.
There's more to it though. When I canoe in the winter, I also have extra clothes and bedding in a dry bag which is tethered to the canoe.
If I'm separated from the canoe and all my gear, I still have the knife and fire kit that I wear on my person. I'll need the fire.
As long as I can keep the canoe, I could even get by without the fire for a while. Just put on dry clothes and get under some blankets and I'm good for a while in some pretty cold weather.
When my wife and I dumped out canoe in December, there wasn't really any emergency about it. If we hadn't have had the tools and known how to use them, there would have been an emergency. It really wasn't a big deal.
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From: dire wolf
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Date: 01-Dec-14 |
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MGF, The only time I was involved with a winter canoe upset rescue was around 1966..Potomac river..high water.. Lordknows WHY they were on that river that day with conditions as they were..:( ( part of survival is DON'T get into bad spots unless absolutely necessary)/
I was on the shore and saw a canoe go wrongways and dump two men in the water..
They managed to get to a small log jam on my side of the shore..
I waded out and dragged them both ashore.Wtaer was ict cold..
It was cold..November deer season and baout 30F. Yes they were in hypothermia when I got them ashore..
I carrried both men to my truck and put them in the back and drove two miles to my uncle's home near Poolesville..Md..
Uncle Jack helped me get them out of the truck, strip them, get them in the warm( not hot) shower for about 30 minutes.. They could hardly stand..hypotermia is a killer.and these two fellows were just a tad older than I was then..and not fat..
Survival in extreme circumstances requires immediate and proper help..whether one is getting help or giving it or doin' it himslef..Jim
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From: MGF
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Date: 01-Dec-14 |
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Our situation wasn't nearly as severe. The river was low and you would have had a hard time finding a place where you couldn't easily stand.
We were fishing a "hole" and the water was still only to my waste.
I simply stood, turned the canoe back over and threw everything back in the boat. It was all tethered. I walked it all over to the bank (we were fishing along the bank), bailed the water out and got back in.
We were near the island where we planed to camp anyway so we paddled over and set up camp. We were cold and we couldn't waste time but we didn't need anybody's help.
I probably wouldn't be on a high, fast river that time of year unless I was searing my dry suit or something...the same gear that I use to scuba dive UNDER the ice for hours at a time.
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