From: bigdog21
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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There was a topic not long ago where will traditional archery be in the future well the changes are getting closer. My nabor showed me a pic. Of his new recurve bow he is getting.
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From: dire wolf
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Well..THAT'S an odd looking critter..:)
I think that stickbow archery will be around for years to come..
Just 'head out hunting or stumping' with a couple of friends and an uncomplicated longbow or recurve..or selfbow..:)...
What is 'traditional' for one archer may be pretty new fangled, expensive and complicated for another.. I like terms like stickbow or barebow..Jim
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From: David Mitchell
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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We've already been there years ago. That is just a variation on an earlier compound.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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That style is 35 years old...hardly a new path to anything.
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From: David Mitchell
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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It was called the Oneida Eagle, I believe.
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From: Deadringer
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Oneida Eagle was the first thing that popped up in my head when I seen that pic.
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From: dire wolf
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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I'm certain that archers who were used to hunting and shooting wooden bows in the 40's( and earlier) were a bit skeptical about fiberglas backed and faced bows..
Then there were bows like the multicam longbow..reflex-deflex bows, fiberglas arrows, carbon arrows..compound bows that progressed from Allen's original design to the present ones..
Hope archery stays around for a few more years.. In it's most uncomplicated forms..it is still effective and enjoyable..Wood bows and wood arrows..:)..Jim
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From: Recurve Crafter
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Yep, nothing new there. It's just a variation of a compound bow. No worries here.
There were a few guys around here shooting Oneida's back in the '90's.
None of them ever competed in the "recurve" or "traditional" class at the shoots.
They always shot in the compound class.... because it's a compound bow, not a recurve...lol
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From: bigdog21
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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ya they have been around for years but know in (traditional wood grain) lol.
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From: Smithhammer
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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There were plenty of silly ideas during the "heyday" of archery as well. One can point to those singular (and usually short-lived, obscure) examples, or you can look at the many, many more examples of how many awesome choices of excellent crafted tackle we have available today. The choice is yours.
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From: kenwilliams
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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I was thinking what George and David said when I saw the picture.
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From: Rooty
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Not that way. Cameron
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From: Pago
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Yes the parent of that bow was an Oneida. Yes they are compound bows, but as close as a compound will get to a trad bow. I have one, the Aero force x- 80. Currently there are at least two companies fighting over the rights to the technology. I don't know much about the current designs but the limbs on mine are laminated wood. I enjoy the bow it is easy to shoot bare bow just like a recurve but flatter and faster. 625 grains @ 272 fps. I have gone the other direction learning to build and design my own bows, self and laminated but will keep shooting the Oneida as well.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Kinda like the old Penobscot Indian bows.
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From: Pago
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Personally I think trad bows will be around as long as we can afford wood and it is available. Even compound shooters get called back to our roots, simpler, eligant, warm and natural works of functional art. I also think there us a hole between trad and compound to be filled fully composite long and recurve bows whck probably sounds like sacralidge to some. I know of no one specifically designing composites for this type of bow it probably won't happen until developed for some other purpose. I embrace it all YMMV.
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From: buddyb
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Yep that's an Oneida bow. They have been around a long time as mentioned. I had an X80 and it was fun to shoot. I liked the idea of not having cables in the way of your fletching so you could still shoot flu-flu arrows. They're really getting popular for bowfishing. They're still being made in Michigan and there is a guy in Maine that's also making them under the name American Eagle. He's using carbon limbs instead of the laminated limbs. There was a guy in Florida making them and was experimenting with aluminum limbs.
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From: Don
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Hunting of course. It's fall.
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From: Babysaph
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Better known as the slap eagle. My buddy had one. Man it was noisy sounded like a shopping cart
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From: starrider
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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As someone else said these bows are making a come back in bow fishing. Adjustable weights from 15 lbs to 40 lbs one one bow, and 70 to no let off.
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From: 3arrows
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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I think traditional archery will grow because the xbow will replace compounds.
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From: Ghostinthemachine
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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I've always wanted an Oneida.
I think they'd be fun to shoot with fingers and no sights. They are loud though, but I'd wager you can get them to quiet down somewhat.
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From: Pago
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Never heard them called a slap eagle, they are a challenge to tune but if perfectly timed are as quiet as any other compound. Mine is 80# and 80% let- off, serious speed and kenetic energy.
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From: George Tsoukalas
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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I am hoping and praying the good Lord will give me the energy to make more of these self-bows. This one is hickory. Lord willing next is a black locust self-bow. Jawge
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From: skookum
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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According to definition, traditional means the handing down of information, beliefs, or customs by word of mouth or by example from one generation to another without written instruction.
Since W.W.II there has been a LOT of written instruction on what "traditional" archery is or isn't. The pictures of Jawge and dire wolf, above, seems to describe in my mind (without using words) what "traditional" archery REALLY is!
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From: DarrinG
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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I remember seeing several of those Oneida Eagle's around at 3-D shoots back in the early 90's. If my memory serves me right, yes, the ones I seen/heard shot were really loud. Loud, but fast too.
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From: GLF
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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This is where people in the 60's figured archery was headed.
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From: SB
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Now thier calling THAT thing a traditional bow?
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From: SB
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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If you are sitting down you can draw an Onieda to full draw then rest the lower limb on your leg and you can hold it back forever ... it kinda keeps itself " cocked"! Best to move your leg before shooting though!
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From: Ron LaClair
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Traditional archery hasn't changed in our deer camp, Shrew Haven in the last 25 years and I don't think it's going to change any time soon.
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From: Pointer
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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The Oneida is a lever-limb compound bow..it can be quieted like any other bow once you know what you are doing with it. Mike Mitten hunted with one for years shooting it instinctively. I have an original that a guy at our local range gave me some years ago. I never hunted with it but I remember it was fun to shoot
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From: Silverback
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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I've had one since the 90's.Actually it is the smoothest compund bow I have ever shot.I'm thinking of taking the sights off mine and shoot it instictive just for fun.
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From: oldarcher
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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A compounder recently told me he heard that the compound design is quickly reaching it's ultimate speed limit. A maximum speed of 400 fps is possible, but it will take Paul Bunyan to pull it. I recently chronographed a few cross bows that were loaded using cranks, and was surprised that the speed was 300 fps max., and were very loud.
I think trad archery will be around for a very long time - simplicity.
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From: Mojostick
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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The future of traditional archery hasn't been this secure or bright, since prior to the invention of the compound. Oddly enough, as the technology of the compound has increased 10 fold in the last 30 years and xbows are legal in more and more states, hunting with traditional gear is now seen as a goal to be achieved and a pinnacle to reach by more and more existing "bow hunters". And being that traditional is a "silent dream" for more and more, and a goal many wish to reach at sometime in their lives, the future is not only secure, but bright. All that we need to do in the future is foster those thoughts and feelings and to shape policy to make sure more and more can enter the realm, in an ever hectic world.
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From: camodave
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Archery is where it is...an individual pursuit for individuals in the free world...I am just enjoying the ride
DDave
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From: Nemah
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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This is a glimpse into where traditional archery is headed....
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Some of use have been around the sport for decades and saw what happened in the 1970s when we thought we would indeed lose traditional archery. Those who were around then know what I'm talking about. Where we are now, as opposed to the late 70's, is amazing. The sport is alive and well and growing.
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From: Nemah
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Another...
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From: Nemah
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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One more.....
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From: Jim Davis
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Great job Nema.
It's more fun to equip or coach a kid than to make things for our seleves.
Jim
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From: 4nolz@work
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Oneida shooters are amongst the most loyal of the compound rest they have active message boards
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From: Mojostick
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Another thought is, while it's easy to get caught up in the warm fuzziness of vintage gear and nostalgia, we have to keep in mind that the future is every time we head out on a hunt. The future has to be our focus, not the past. The past is merely a guide of a future heading.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Mojostick, we should look forward, but we should both know the past, and never forget it. Without it, we wouldn't be here to begin with. At 68...son 69, I appreciate where we came from and I intend to spread the word about it as much as possible. Too many nowadays don't know jack about our archery past.
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From: Mojostick
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Agreed. That's why we should make teaching about the past a part of the future. But as in driving, let's just not forget that the future is in front of us, and should be our main focus, and the past is always there in the rear view mirror and is there for reflection, not concern.
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From: Wildhog
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Date: 25-Oct-14 |
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Those Oneida bows are a blast to shoot. I have several and they can be tuned as quiet as any bow. They are probably the smoothest bow you will ever draw and I shoot mine with fingers just like my recurves. They were way ahead of their time and to me they are like a half breed. You should shoot one if you ever get a chance and you will see what I mean.
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From: rare breed
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Date: 26-Oct-14 |
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I shoot a longbow. Grew up shooting a Bear Super Kodiak with wood arrows and Bear/Zwickey broadheads. Since converting to the longbow 12 years ago, I have shot aluminums almost exclusively. Love their consistency, love the way they fly. Always will. I don't need to pretend with a "wood grain" look on my shafts and imitation barred feathers. I tend to shoot only B-50 Dacron. That said, I don't like where trad archery is headed. Not at all (i.e. super skinny fast Flight strings and skinny carbon arrows with two-inch fletch, elevated rests, brass inserts for weight, etc.) That's not archery-- certainly not traditional archery. It sickens me where they taken our sport. The "real archers" are the self-bow guys, folks that craft their own bows and arrows from a single piece of wood through the sweat of their brow and the artistry of their hands. Some even hunt with them. Good on them. Just my take. Shoot Straight, rare breed
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From: David Alford
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Date: 26-Oct-14 |
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A confluence of developments...
Lower weight bows with higher efficiencies via carbon/ceramic limb improvements. My nonmechanical release or maybe someone else's. Simple sights OR other aiming methods that increase accuracy beyond gap shooting as it is presently used.
Applied to short bows, they can now really be very effective as finger pinch is totally eliminated. With the higher limb efficiencies, a 35# bow is more than adequate for deer and can be held at draw similarly to a compound at letoff. The only substantial benefit a compound would have is longer range, but this is of questionable merit if the hunter prefers closer range for his own satisfaction.
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From: David Alford
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Date: 26-Oct-14 |
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It is hard to beat the compound, but I believe we can come close...and w/o the complexity and ugliness...good grief it gets worse every year!
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From: Bruce Ward
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Date: 26-Oct-14 |
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Nemah , thats awesome ! It's all about getting the kids involved in archery. I built a recurve in wood shop at school and have been addicted ever sence. That was 45years ago, for me now it's about passing on what I've learned in a lifetime of playing this game.
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From: Danny Pyle
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Date: 26-Oct-14 |
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Some of the newer so called traditional bows are not to far from the Onieda, with adjustible tiller and draw weight. They are just two wheels shy of a compound!
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From: Mojostick
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Date: 26-Oct-14 |
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We should ask ourselves if, when Fred Bear was alive, did he focus mainly on the past or on the future? Did Fred Bear react to the archery world or did he try to shape the archery world?
While the past is certainly something we should respect and hold dear, the future is what is infront of us. I think many believe that the heyday of traditional archery was the 1950's and 1960's and that the future is rather hopeless for the sport. Well, that will always be the case if that's what we believe. I happen to believe that the heyday of traditional archery may be in the future, not the past.
Unlike the days of Fred Bear, we live in a country with far more bowhunters than existed in the 1950's or 1960's. Like it or not, it's the potential of that existing pool where the future or traditional archery lies. Whether or not we make motions to promote traditional archery to all those existing bowhunters who presently use compounds is up to us.
The past of traditional archery is very rich. That's obvious to all. But instead of thinking in nostalgic terms where thinking of the past has a tinge of depression attached, we should think in terms of how to bring the very best of the past to future traditional bowhunters and how best to teach them about that great past.
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From: Elkhuntr
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Date: 26-Oct-14 |
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a change or improvement that would help the future of traditional archery is for the participants to grow thicker skin and stop looking for a way to be offended.
if its not a picture of an Oneida, it's cabelas archery catalog or a mechanical broadhead ad that offends some thin skinned 'traditionalist'.
just like auto enthusiasts, fishing, firearms/shooting, or team sport junkies, you are free to choose what, if any, part of archery you like. you can participate and enjoy to the fullest, or not. if there is a part of it that you do not enjoy or cannot afford, focus on the part you can enjoy and let others do the same with their choices.
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From: Michael Schwister
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Date: 26-Oct-14 |
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Me thinks more traditional shooters running away from the xgun tide. Movies and culture seem to help. I see more and more folks getting into making their own, to include selfbows and glass lam. it is way addicting, and fun, as well as cost effective.
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From: Michael Schwister
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Date: 26-Oct-14 |
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Me thinks more traditional shooters running away from the xgun tide. Movies and culture seem to help. I see more and more folks getting into making their own, to include selfbows and glass lam. it is way addicting, and fun, as well as cost effective.
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From: bigdog21
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Date: 26-Oct-14 |
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not offended by a Oneida or compound bow and not making fun of them just thought it was funny he thought he was getting a wood recurve. I have compounds, longbows and recurves and enjoy all of them.
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From: Bjorn
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Date: 26-Oct-14 |
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Trad archery can go where you want it to go. You can set your own course and follow a trend, or not. Do what you want and not what someone else wants you to want.
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From: biggame
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Date: 26-Oct-14 |
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I also think the future is bright. Look at the past and use it to see the future. Fred Bear was a great marketing genius as well as sportsman. That is where his company came from now look at the current Hoyt traditional lineup. People talk about how simple the Bear takedown is to pack up and put together well it is complicated compared to a Buffalo or Tiburon. Look at placement in the movies and television to get young archers interested. Hoyt has found it's way to the Avengers, Hunger games series. Oneida slipped in there with the Arrow series though dang the luck. There are companies like Border adding performance to the product in leaps and smaller steps by many other bow makers. The only down side I see is it takes a lot of dedication to achieve results with traditional equipment and the easy path of the compound and now crossbows is drawing many more away but at least the sport isn't lost.
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From: HammockHanger
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Date: 27-Oct-14 |
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I teach the Archery Merit Badge, both in my Troop and at the District level, and I always teach traditional archery. The boys always like stickbows better than compounds.
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From: Surfbow
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Date: 27-Oct-14 |
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'The "real archers" are the self-bow guys'
With attitudes like this, traditional archery is headed down the tubes...I can't imagine telling some excitable kid shooting a compound at the range that he's not a 'real archer' because he doesn't shoot a bow that looks like yours, shame on you.
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From: Harlen
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Date: 27-Oct-14 |
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I have a woodworking shop with commercial grade jointer and planer, but I still love my Stanley hand planes, one for every job.
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From: David Alford
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Date: 27-Oct-14 |
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"The only down side I see is it takes a lot of dedication to achieve results with traditional equipment..." Instinctive is what can be difficult. Gap shooting as currently done is not that much better, it still has difficulties. Gloves and tabs are almost invariably used and taught. All of these are tough and all are unnecessary.
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From: ecalvillo7
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Date: 27-Oct-14 |
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I am actually suprised and pleased that hoyt and others are entering the marketing trend with this type of trad bows. I was a compound shooter and 3 years ago got hooked with trads. Its simpler (no million gadgets like sights, rests, cams, drawlenghts, etc), more fun and ¨cheaper¨to shoot an arrow.
Ive had some friends, who have never shot an arrow in ther life, try out both of my bows (trad and compound) and got hooked with trad (for the beauty of the flying arrow and simplicity), they just didint like that its all wood, ¨old looking¨, and that only ¨old people¨(no offense) shoot them.
Later, after trying my hoyt dorado out, were amazed (because it looked modern, like the one in the movies) and went on to buy one. Got hooked up and now shoot regularly.
So in my opinion, the only way traditional archery will grow and ¨flourish¨with next generations is to evolve. Not into compounds, but evolve within itself. Example. Hoyt and other companies are now making traditional bows with modern feel and looks, carbon arrows are now used in traditional setups, gear is now being made of different materials (nylon vs leather), etc. Thats what actually got me (wife bought me the dorado and loved it, then went on to buy a used great plains bow).
And the truth is, I live in the city and as cities expand so its population, who dont give a **** about hunting and traditional stuff. Its up to us, and companies to keep it going...
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From: Pago
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Date: 27-Oct-14 |
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The more I think about it, the future of traditional is us. Every time we go to the range and people get to see how enjoyable it is. Every time we take the time to answer all of the questions we've heard a hundred times. Every time we teach our craft whether shooting or building. Every time we take the opportunity to represent our sport and present ourselves in a positive light we mold the future of trad. YMMV
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From: Stumpkiller
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Date: 27-Oct-14 |
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Will we be genetically warfing self-bows with different wood characteristics between the riser and limbs?
Hopefully some of the laminate bows from the 60's will still be soldiering in in the year 2100+. Fiberglass might not have a service life if treated properly.
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From: rare breed
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Date: 28-Oct-14 |
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Surfbow: Who approached a kid at an archery range and told him he wasn't a "real archer" because his bow didn't look like mine?? Are you stupid or just deranged?? This a forum for trad archery and discussions related to it.
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From: David Alford
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Date: 28-Oct-14 |
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I also think we'll see some significant changes in arrow fletching...smaller stuff. Not entirely new, but I think it will grow in combination with other things that make large fletching unnecessary...turbo nocks is one such development, but there are others.
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From: Tajue17
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Date: 28-Oct-14 |
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(quote from Oldarcher above) A compounder recently told me he heard that the compound design is quickly reaching it's ultimate speed limit. A maximum speed of 400 fps is possible, but it will take Paul Bunyan to pull it. I recently chronographed a few cross bows that were loaded using cranks, and was surprised that the speed was 300 fps max., and were very loud. I think trad archery will be around for a very long time - simplicity.
I agree 100% compounds are peaking now and there isn't much more they can do other than faze out the aluminum risers and start making carbon fiber even titanium like the pedalbikes do.
Traditional archery will ALWAYS be around as long people enjoy it,, the thing is we really don't have any promotion out there so we the shooters are the promo,,,,,, I've said this maybe a thousand times that alot of the compounders who want to try trad but how can they when all their buddys shoot wheels and there is NOBODY they personally know who has a stickbow.....
instead of us veering away when we see these guys shoot the crap, say hi, and always offer to let them try your bow,,,, it only takes ONE arrow and the seed is planted and the domino effect happens.
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From: RymanCat
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Date: 28-Oct-14 |
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Its like saying I like fast cars but they cost to much fuel so I will get me a electric car. That guy's is a reason to save money however there is none with trad its a way of life and your either in it or out of it no other reasons its what you do and cherish isn't it.
I was able to quiet my Eagle and used it for bowfishing was a great weapon for that no sites either for me ever on any compounds and fingers.
Still have my Oneida Eagle hanging up it has a broken piece on it would not mind fixing it not sure if any parts are still available or not?
If your really into this whole trad thing you would not wonder you would know where to feed your addiction and how unless your in unpopulated whereabouts and need mail order everything then dial up on the net.LOL
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From: Surfbow
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Date: 28-Oct-14 |
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Just calling it like I see it Rare Breed. I don't feel the need to belittle other people because they choose to do things differently than I do, apparently that's ok for you to do though...I'm going to the range to shoot my fake wood-grain arrows...have a nice day
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From: GF
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Date: 28-Oct-14 |
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Funny thing…
On the one hand, I really don’t think I’d care to own a “trad” bow with riser made out of anything other than wood. Never mind the fact that seemingly 100% of the top-flight target archers are shooting anything BUT wood.
But on the other hand, if there were a bow that was comparable in weight to a 3-piece TD recurve… and it shot just as quietly… but it used a configuration similar to the Oneida to ramp up the draw force quite a bit more quickly and then hold it there until the bow began to stack like crazy just a hair past full draw... like a super-aggressive cam with no valley between peak draw weight and the “back wall”….
I would take a very serious look at it…. Budget permitting.
I wouldn’t want sights or a mechanical release on it, but if a #50 @ 26” recurve/hybrid could store the same energy as a #50 @ 26” hard-cam compound (or even a bit more, since there’d be no let-off), I expect my average score on those long-shot 3D targets would go up appreciably. As would the amount of effort required to extract my arrows from the foam….
Of course, if the draw cycle just plain felt like crap, or the hand-shock were awful, or if it groaned like a steel bridge on the verge of collapse every time you drew it…. or if it had any number of other unbearable bad habits I can imagine, then no, no thanks.
But as much as I enjoy archery, I’m always thinking about a hunt. And if I could enjoy the same Feel for the shot that I get from a big, bent stick… Then I guess my enjoyment of reduced vertical aiming error and a bunch more potential for penetration and a reduction in the animals’ ability to change position while the arrow is in transit… yeah all of that might just outweigh my aesthetic preferences.
Or maybe not.
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From: Chief RID
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Date: 31-Oct-14 |
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I would say from the backyard to the woods, as usual.
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From: Ken Taylor
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Date: 31-Oct-14 |
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I don't want to open up a Pandora's Box, but here's an example about how confused people are about archery these days.
One evening a friend and I were guiding a few fishermen from another Province and the conversation turned to bowhunting (wonder how that happened, LOL!). Anyway, after a few colorful (but true) longbow stories on my part, one of the guys enthusiastically, but innocently exclaimed " when I get back I'm going to get both my kids into archery... (I was really pleased to have spread "the word" - until he finished his sentence... "I'm going to get them each a crossbow!"
Good grief!
But don't worry, I was gentle in enlightening him.
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