I was trying to come up with a clever title, but then I figured I ought to just call a spade a spade… Just I’ve been pondering the psychology behind using them, and especially among those who might consider themselves “trad” shooters… And it don’t make no damn sense…

Let’s think about these things for a minute…

What exactly does a mechanical head offer that a simple 2-or-3-blade does not?

Is it Additional Penetration? Likely not. As a rule, they’ll cost you.

Is it a “bigger” wound channel? Presumably. Theoretically, anyway…

OK, so why would you want that?

Is it that a 1 1/8” 2-blade isn’t up to the task? Nope. Gotta rule that one out…. Too many critters have died mid-stride and in under 30 seconds to credit that idea. Of course, some animals have taken longer, but a reasonably solid double-lung hit with a sharp blade and two holes…. It’s just not that survivable. And on a marginal hit… If you’re cutting through the wrong stuff…. why would cutting a bit more of it be of any help? Have you ever heard a story of a difficult recovery which ended with the teller saying “…and man, if it hadn’t been for my double-wide/mechanical broadhead, I NEVER would’ve found that sonofagun!”

So JMO, the feeling that there’s a tangible benefit to these oversized broadheads and mechanical whiz-bangs has got to be rooted in an underlying DISbelief that plain old archery gear is up to the job.

Honestly, it doesn’t surprise me that a gun-hunter who picks up a compound or crossbow could be in need of some convincing. Probably most of, or even the ONLY deer they’ve seen killed with arrows have been the poorly-hit ones that lie rotting in the woods come rifle season. Yeah, there are all of those trophy shots, but what about all the ones that got away??

But man… By the time you come around to wanting to hunt with a “trad” bow, shouldn’t you at least have come around to True Believer status as regards the deadliness of the equipment? Because at that rate…. If you harbor any doubts, those must have to do with your own faith in your shooting.

Now, FWIW, I’ve never connected on a shot that I didn’t think I could make. Not to say that I haven’t whiffed on a few gimmes, either, but shooting the way we do – or even using high-power rifles with scopes – “half of this stuff is 99% mental”. There have been a few shots where I could hardly believe the hit after the fact, but in the instant when I loosed those arrows… When you know, You Know.

So let the arguing begin for those who enjoy it, but here’s my thought for the day:

If you truly believe in your own shooting, you cannot reasonably believe that a bigger or more complicated broadhead will do you any good whatsoever… So doesn’t it stand to reason that these out-sized broadheads are really just something of a psychological crutch?

Ordinarily, I’d say “Hey, if it gives you more confidence, it surely can’t hurt.” But if a shooter doubts HIMSELF to begin with… something tells me that when it gets right down to it, just knowing that he opted for the “added insurance” is going to erode his confidence anyway and he’ll be no better off.

Either that, or he’s liable to end up taking shots that he should have passed up no matter what…

That's easy, a mechanical head flies well out of an unturned bow and out of crossbows. If it weren't for unturned bows they never would have made it. Guys will tell you theye fly better. Well yes they do if your bows not tuned but if its tuned any broaddhead will fly well.

Yeah, Gary, I suppose that’s even WORSE. There, you’ve got a guy who has ample evidence that his set-up is out-o-whack, so he slaps a band-aid on a potentially complicated issue and goes a-hunting anyway…

Tell me THAT won’t eat at the edges of your confidence!

Mike - I hear you... But I'm not convinced that Blind Hero Worship is all that compatible with being responsible enough to be trusted to take an animal cleanly....

Guys, y'all are painting the compound/crossbow hunter with a very broad brush.

When I bowhunted with a compound I used Muzzy 4 blades. My bow was paper tuned quite well, but they would still impact 3 inches off of where my field points hit @ 20 yards, so I would have to adjust my sights. Expandables do away with this in most cases, and for medium-sized game such as deer they penetrate well enough to reliably kill deer with a rib shot. There are plently of trad bowhunters that think bigger wound channel is better too (all of the 3 or 4 blade shooters).

Please rememebr that the compound generates a good deal more energy than a stick. My old hunting rig launched a 460 grian arrow 265 FPS, and I was only drawing 63 lbs. 10 years later they're even better.

I do not like expandables and have never personally used them. To date I have only wounded/lost one game animal, a turkey with a recurve, while cleanly and quickly killing 9 deer. If I still used a compound tipped with an expandable head I KNOW I would wound less game when it's all said and done (hopefully) many years down the road.

I choose to use traditional tackle because it's more challenging and rewarding, not because it is more effective, because it is not. Critical remarks directed at modern bowhunters is about like a classic car collector criticizing anyone that drives a 2014 Camry because it's not a a timeless design...just doesn't make much sense.

I think you are ranting at the choir

The only guy promoting them here was onesharpbroadhead and he got banned awhile back.

100% agree with GLF. I had compound shooters at our club tell me the only reason they use them is that they don't have to work about tuning a the degree that is necessary with fixed blade broadheads. Humans desire easy!

OK, I will play.

I don't use them and have no desire to use them.

I like the idea of being able to easily re-use my broadheads and sharpen them, and less moving parts means less chance of something failing.

But....

I don't think that using a head that flies better on a no-so-perfect release under hunting conditions or in a cross-wind is unreasonable to consider.

The data regarding mechanical head failure is far from perfect, and some would say contrived.

The thought of having a larger entrance hole and 'possibly' a better blood trail is also nothing to sneeze at.

All that being said...

There are plenty of good trad heads out there that put great blood trails on the ground.

Back in my compound days, the first time that I didn't get an exit hole was when I tried a rage 2 blade broadhead, and the second time was again with a rage broadhead. I stopped using them. That being said, both of those buck died from massive blood loss within eyesight, and I could see the blood pouiring out of them with the naked eye immediately after the shot.

oops, untuned not turned,lol

"When I bowhunted with a compound I used Muzzy 4 blades. My bow was paper tuned quite well, but they would still impact 3 inches off of where my field points hit @ 20 yards"

My point exactly, paper tuned is not always tuned. A broadhead will tell if you're tuned. If you're right handed and broadheads hit left of field points you're arrows stiff. broadheads magnify tuning problems, but they don't create them.

I use two blades so I'm nice and traditional. I used them In my compoind set ups as long as I can remember. I also played with mechanicals. My bow was paper tuned to total perfection. And I was offered sponsorships for my shooting. So when I tried the mechanicals it wasn't for lack of tuning. It also wasn't for lack of ethics or due to laziness. I have seen deer shot with a two blade that stopped square in bone. To question ethics based on equipment choice is asinine. I personally don't like them. I personally choose a fixed blade. I personally don't think trad bows generate enough energy for them to properly open consistently. When I worked at the pro shop we discouraged folks with soft cams and bows under 55 lbs to avoid them. I know Some stereotypes exist for good reason. But I know guys who hunt with AR-15's that have more class and integrity than anybody I've ever seen. Just my two cents.

GLF- You may be correct. However, 3 inch difference was still a well-tuned, albeit not perfectly tuned, bow. A poorly tuned one would be close to a foot off.

What stickbow shooter would not be pleased with a shot that impacts 3 inches off the dot at 20 yards? Damned few of them, for sure. A good compund shooter can hit a quarter from that distance 8 out of 10 times though, so even the slightest change in impact is readily noticable.

Like I said, I don't like expandables. Still, they have a niche and are not egregiously sinful as the OP suggests.

Oops we encouraged them to avoid EM lol. Didn't proof read.

Marketing…..

If I were to ever consider using them(which won't ever happen) the price alone would stop me. The cheap ones are about $12 each and some are $15 and more. For a one shot broadhead!!! I like my Zwickeys that I paid $4 for and I can sharpen and reuse until I lose it. I have a Delta on a cedar arrow that has killed 3 deer. I'm cheap

I'm about as traditional as anyone can be, never used a mechanical head in my life nor will i ever.

But this is the United States of America folks, and your free to use a compound and mechanical head if you so choose.

My oldest son shoots a compound and uses them, hard to say how many deer he's killed with them.

To say his equipment is not tuned properly and that is why he shoots them is quite laughable.

And yes they make a big hole, surely bigger than my two bladed ace broadheads.

Am i going to switch? of course not.

Does he use them as a pshychological crutch?...lol , yea right.

I bust on him all the time but its all in fun. Truth is he could easily make a total idiot out of many of us, when it comes to hunting.

Better quit while your ahead fellas.

Even though i like to get on the "latest and greatest wiz bang gadget" hobby horse occasionally myself.

I'm not fool enough to say or think that all compound shooters and mechanical head user's are rank novices suffering from poorly tuned equip and psychological doubts.

I dont' understand why it should matter to you what they use. I don't use them or sell them or care for them, but they have been proven and are legal.

I can't begin to count how many "trad" guys tell me they don't want to fool with all that tuning! And those that think they are tuned but are so far off.

If it makes their arrows fly better/straighter, I'm all for it because they are not going to quit hunting if they can't use them, they are just going to guess where their impact is going to be.

Yes, bigger wound channels are awesome by the way. I would venture a guess that you have never arrowed a bear or a pig. How bout having just a little...or a lot more blood on the ground.

Dead is dead, but they ain't in the freezer til you find them.

BIgjim

uhm... I just read here http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/COLLECTING/broadheads/Broadheadcollecting.CFM that there was mechanical broadhead in existance as of 1953.... since compound bow was developped in 60's... can't mechanical broadhead be considered traditional in a sense? Granted it probably wasn't mainstream or popular, but it did exist...

I had a buddy that shot a deer with a swacker head last week out of a compound. All he did was complain about how it tore the guts up, getting them all over his meat.

Having been unable to hunt this year...I am relegated to watching the dreaded outdoor channels..ARGHH!.. Have yet to see any decent penetration with ANY style mechanical!

Can't figure out why folks care about what other people use,it's only a choice. It's funny how I read BH threads and the blame for failure seems to be always directed at the BH, something I've never done for about 37 years of bowhunting, boy, things have changed!

I tell you it is hard to beat that schwacker

As far as lack of penetration seen on hunting videos.

My son and i just discussed this over the phone a couple evenings ago.

He had just shot a nice doe, complete pass through,she ran 40 yds and went down.

He has NEVER! had a mechanical broadhead stay in a deer. Always complete penetration.

I asked him, what's up with all the hunting videos and lack of penetration?

His reply?

"I have never had one not fully penetrate, they must be using Light arrows and low poundage"

This is not just a random statement based on a couple 6 deer taken.

He has been all over hunting, from the east to the west, knows his business.

I think it was 2 yrs ago? he shot 10 deer with a bow in one year! all with mechanicals.

I take this, "my buddy, he said she said" stuff with a grain of salt, i also have come to the conclusion that as far as mechanical broadheads are concerned.

If you have enough arrow weight and the bow speed (compounds) to get the job done, they are incredibly effective.

If you don't, stay away from them.

In my opinion mechanicals are NOT! the best choice for stickbows. Or for light weight arrows and lower poundage compounds.

For me, mechanical heads are simply part of the archery evolution, just as the compound was back in the day. Can't comment on their effectiveness as I've never used them, even when I was hunting with wheels. I like the looks of a traditional fixed head. Started my bowhunting odyssey with a Browning Explorer and Bear razorheads. Glad to be back in the trad family and am still using the razorheads which I enjoy sharpening. I find them still to be very effective as the pronghorn I took in WY last month will attest. In the end, it's all a matter of choice and passing judgment on those who do or don't use them is counterproductive. IMHO.

I have 3 friends that shoot mechanicals out of their compounds. They are experienced hunters and their gear is tuned perfectly. Their draw weights range from 65-70 lbs. and they shoot at least 500 gr. total arrow weight. They practice A LOT and are very good shots. All 3 are currently shooting Rage broadheads and they have yet to NOT get a complete passthrough. I asked them why I see so many Rage or other mech head shooters on TV not getting passthroughs. They couldn't answer for certain but they speculated it was either poor arrow flight, light arrows, not enough poundage or a combination thereof. That's the only experience I have with mechanical heads. So far, so good for my friends.

GF asks if we've ever heard of someone saying they never would have found the deer if it weren't for the mech head they shot. My answer is Yes. I've heard that said on several hunting shows. The guy shoots a deer with his mech head and it runs off with 3/4ths of the arrow sticking out of its side. Then they say something like "well, we replayed the tape and are going to let him lay overnight and come back tomorrow". Sure enough they come back after the commercial and say they found him and say crap like "Man, that mech head really did its job. Wouldn't have gotten this deer without it". The one that gets me is when they say "The arrow hit the off shoulder and bounced back out". REALLY? I've shot several deer with my recurve and hit them in the shoulder (not intentionally) and never had the arrow "bounce back". They've all punched through the scapula either going in or coming out. I credit that performance to good arrow flight and a good, stout broadhead.

Bottomline, I'm like most others on this forum in that mech heads are not for trad gear. However, with that being said I also believe one can shoot whatever head or whatever gear they feel comfortable with. They just need to hit the animal where it counts.

It's just another gadget with great marketing. I highly dislike gadgets for hunting, that's why I started shooting a trad bow.

i really enjoy leatherwall, and i'm not much for gadgets and goodies.

But i'm not a traditionalist.

I'm a hunter.

If compounds and mechanicals were all there was to hunt with, you can bet i'd be using them.

What i don't like about leatherwall is this..."i'm a cut above the compound bow shooting mechanicals crowd" type attitudes..

Sorry fellas but your head is in the clouds and your dreaming.

Fact is there are some incredibly hard core experienced hunters out there using the latest and greatest wiz bang gadgets, that many of the traditional dreamers couldn't hold a candle to.

Sorry for the stern comment, but sometimes the truth hurts.

The equipment doesn't make the man or the hunter, the guy toting it does.

Another thing us traditional guys are clueless about is how speed can effect a broadhead.

We shoot under 200 fps and just about any broadhead will fly good with well tuned equip, but tack another 100 fps on to that and it gets harder to control. Enter the mechanical broadhead.

To each his own, just saying.

"GF asks if we've ever heard of someone saying they never would have found the deer if it weren't for the mech head they shot. My answer is Yes. I've heard that said on several hunting shows."

ROF

LMAO

I know a guy who shoots both a recurve and a compound. He's a top notch shooter with both. Hunted first weekend of bow season with trad gear and passed up close shots at cow elk, hoping for a bull. Couldn't get within recurve range of a nice bull, so he went back the next weekend with his compound. Told me he shot the bull in the ribs at 65 yards with a mechanical head that didn't penetrate into the vitals... It ran off with the arrow dangling and finally fell out. Very little blood was found and after looking for two days, he gave up.

I don't know what to say to him now that archery season is over, except I hope someone finds it alive and takes it cleanly with a rifle or muzzleloader.

I have a feeling he won't be hunting elk with a traditional bow anymore if he can't even kill one with a compound.

But I'm afraid stories like that that may end up contributing to shortened archery seasons and the allowance of crossbows.

The last time I shot a compound was around 2002. Shot my buck that year with a mechanical. Deer ran about 15 yards stopped, stood there a minute, tipped over. Previous couple of deer died quickly also. No tuning, no extra money, no worries, & very effective. If I was ever to shoot a compound again I would probably continue shooting Thunderheads which I use now, & primarily have since the early 80s. But certainly wouldn't have any issues shooting a good expandable. I see a lot of dumbasses shooting compounds, and just as many shooting traditional, but it has nothing to do with what broadhead they shoot. Why would anyone care

good grief the next thing you know the trad police will say if you don't use stone you're not trad. Get a grip. I don't like them either but this is ridicules

"I see a lot of dumbasses shooting compounds, and just as many shooting traditional".

Well said Don, well said. Haha.

Shade Mt. is right on! In my compound days w/ mechanicals, used for accuracy and consistency, I never had a non-pass thru. Most blew thru and ended up 10 to 15 yds. past, one went exactly 44 steps into the bruch after blowing thru a 185 lb, 10pt buck at 23 yds! (I never shot past 30 yds w/ my compound). And they are definitely not one shot wonders, replace the blades and you're back in business! (I only used Spitfires)

Trad bows just don't have the speed for correct deployment of a mechanical, period! Nor is the slower speed detrimental to accuracy of a fixed blade BH, the way a compound's speed is! 180 fps vs. 315 fps! And, compounds shooting mechanicals better be tuned for correct deployment, or penetration will suffer accordingly.

Each to his own.

If a mechanical head helps a guy shoot more accurately, why the hell would you look down on him?

I'm with Don-

"I see a lot of dumbasses shooting compounds, and just as many shooting traditional".

Hold your arm out of the car window at say 30mph. Flatten your hand to simulate an airplane wing, then move your hand and feel how the air flows and moves your arm up and down. Then try it at 60mph and feel the difference. Same principle with trad bows and modern compounds- speed affects the broad head the same way.

The difficulty with fixed blades and 275-300 fps speeds is that not only does the bow need to be tuned, but so does the broad head. It must be aligned with fletchings and wobble free at the insert- spin tested. Mechanical broad heads remove that from the equation. But I've never cared for them, always went extra efforts to tune all aspects of the setup

I think the point is, mechanical heads shot from a compound are not the panacea some may fhink they are, and even with well-placed shots, they may fail to result in a kill.

I didn't read anything here really so forgive if someone pointed this out all ready...I find the whole subject boring and worn out but...this caught my attention.

"Please remember that the compound generates a good deal more energy than a stick. My old hunting rig launched a 460 grain arrow 265 FPS, and I was only drawing 63 lbs. 10 years later they're even better."

Not a big deal really you are only shooting 7.3 GPP with that setup lots a trad bows will approach that..plenty will shoot right at 200 fps at 9 GPP drop it down to 7 and am sure they are right in there. Close enough not to matter..the whole wheelie thing is the let off not that they are any faster per say.

I gave up on wheels back in the early 80's but if I was to pick one up tomorrow I would still set it up with a CC head and 10-11 GPP. And I'd probably gain 10-20 FPS over the fastest trad bow out there...big deal.

But hey that's just me.

I see this issue as just another "us against them" What difference could it possibly make if someone wants to use a mechanical to you?? Or for that matter if they shoot a compound or cross bow. Shoot what you like and let the other guy do the same. Problem solved and everyone can enjoy their choices without any bickering.

Wellll…. FWIW, I know a guy who was shooting a couple dozen deer a year with great, big mechanicals and he never had a problem. Of course, he was drawing about #80 with a “light”, very fast arrow in the 600 grain range… But then, I think he told me that his bow shot fixed-blades to the same POI as his FPs and his mechanicals, but he preferred the shorter blood trails that he got with the enormous cutting diameter, because he shoots in the VA/MD suburbs where more often than not, a 70+ yard blood trail ends on property for which you may well not have trespass privileges….

Truthfully, I think there are some “good” reasons for using them… if your set-up delivers a superabundance of penetrating capacity…. and some “bad” reasons. For a recurve/longbow/hybrid/selfie shooter, though… I can’t think of a single good one.

So that brings me back to where I started with this whole rant….Personally, I don’t want ANY dumb-asses shooting trad gear, but I want even LESS for them to be compounding their risk of disaster by using broadheads which are largely unsuitable for the task….

And JMO, if a guy doesn’t have complete confidence in his set-up using a conventional head... maybe his set-up isn’t the problem.

MikeW- A traiditonal bow will not shoot anywhere near 265 FPS with 7 GPP. My Black Widow recurve shooting 8 GPP (62 @ 29 with roughly 500 grain arrows) would shoot 213 FPS. If you dropped to 7 GPP you MIGHT get to 225. I really hate to be antagonistic, but you do not know what you are talking about on this one. Your statement may have been true in 1984 but not in 2014. As I have said 1,000,000 times a modern compound is a superior weapon for almost anything. Don't kid yourself, a stickbow is the better choice for fun and challenge, nothing else.

You can only push so much blade through even a deer , with any bow. Some of those heads are just TOO wide to get a pass through with anything! I've found that a deer you shoot completely through dosn 't go near as far as one still carrying an arrow. Undisturbed they go to the nearest cover and expire. Basically, they just don 't know what happened! A non pass-through flopping around in them has just the opposite reaction! At least that's been my experience in the last 50+ years of bowhunting... ALL with recurves or longbows!

"And I'd probably gain 10-20 FPS over the fastest trad bow out there...big deal."

"If you dropped to 7 GPP you MIGHT get to 225. I really hate to be antagonistic, but you do not know what you are talking about on this one. Your statement may have been true in 1984 but not in 2014. As I have said 1,000,000 times a modern compound is a superior weapon for almost anything. Don't kid yourself, a stickbow is the better choice for fun and challenge, nothing else."

I think that's what I said...I was just running numbers through my head so I was off 20 fps or so...too some folks that's big deal to me it's not. I have a bow and a string...no $300 release, no $300 sights, No wheels, no stabilizer, blah blah ect ect ect. Yes for the most part it's a superior weapon for the masses...I won't even go into the other parts of this conversation it's waste of my time.

"is the better choice for fun and challenge, nothing else." And right there I will tell you, you don't know what you are talking about..plenty of guys who are dedicated to archery can make ethical 40-60 yard shots and don't need a range finder to do so..........of course I'm not included in that group.

It's all good and we are all hunters that need to stick together.

"Together we stand, divided we fall"

Let's work together, cmon cmon let work together...love that song

Mike, I do know what I am talking about. I did the 3-d circuit and NAA nationals with both bow styles for several years and have seen the best shooters in both disciplines. I also lived in the town where the buckmasters top bow competition was hosted, which is about the closest hunting simulation shoot out there. I saw that for close to a decade.

You may know your stickbows and be a knowlegable fellow in general, but your off on this one. That 40-60 yard comment especially. 40 yards with a wheel bow is ROUTINE. 60 yards with a compund is easily attained with a little practice. I used to shoot mine at 100 yards and could hit a milk jug 9 of 10 tries if there was not a stiff wind.

I usually will not argue like this..you caught me on a slow afternoon @ work, so nothing better to do. Sorry!

Who friggin cares

might try some i'm thinking 100 grain brass and a nap spitfire out of my firehawk bet it will punch thru some ribs and out the other side

"I see a lot of dumbasses shooting compounds, and just as many shooting traditional".

Guess it depends on who you hang out with. I haven't seen anyone in either camp I'd put in that category...

"The equipment doesn't make the man or the hunter, the guy toting it does. " Shade Mt quote..

OK,,so go to the woods and make your own, then tote it. LMAO

Some folks are just trolls. Here to start trouble. That seems to be all they have in life.

After reading all the posts on this thread, I have to go with; "Who friggin cares?".

GF...the truth is this.. Your opinion just does not matter. This post carries over from the post about penetration mechanical vs. fixed. If you don't believe in mechanical heads then don't use them... but don't go around suggesting that they are inferior, or shot from unturned bows, etc. I started shooting compounds in 1993 when I got out of the military. I shot, practiced, tuned, shot competition, taught archery, worked in a shop, and am a pretty damn successful bowhunter... I have tested and seen the results of mechanical broadheads with my own eyes. I have also shot and tested many fixed blade heads. The bottom line is that when a bow gets faster than say 250fps it is difficult to get a fixed blade head to fly without wind planning. Hence the latest craze in fixed blade heads being 7/8", 1" or 1-1/8" in diameter. The smaller heads are a bit easier to tune out of a compound shooting the faster speeds for the guys who like the fixed blades. I shot Spitfire 2 blade expandables for years. 1-1/2" cutting diameter. I have also used the Shockwave 3 blade heads. Both produced pass throughs and large blood trails.. I have tried others also but these were my preference and I found them to work very well. All of my compound hunting set ups had arrow speeds of 265fps or faster. Never lost a deer using a mechanical head. I do however PRACTICE and only take shots that I know I am capable of. I gave up compound hunting 3 years ago because I wanted to do something more challenging to ME. I am now shooting a 50lb Browning recurve and loving the challenge. I have yet to take a deer with my recurve because for me anything over 20 yards is just too far right now. Had I been hunting with my compound this year, I could have taken a pile of deer out to 40 yards very easily.... For me it is a choice. I choose to do something more challenging after years of taking deer with a compound and mechanicals.

DT - so my opinion doesn't matter... I'm OK with that. On a RANT, I really don't expect it to. But somehow yours does???

Guess some critters really ARE more equal than others!

Now one thing about a good RANT is that you can wander off topic a bit, and I'm sure I did. That's why I made it clear in the title of the thread that this was going to be a RANT. If you don't care to become engaged with a RANT now and again, you could stick to threads marked debate-free, I suppose, but at the very least you should probably avoid those with RANT in the headline....

Just sayin'.... (And FWIW, Butch, a Troll is somebody who pretends to be asking an innocent question. I never made any bones about this one. This one was a RANT from the get-go, and advertised as such.)

Did I mention the word "RANT"?? Thought I was making myself clear here....

But to get back to my original point of the RANT...pre-wandering...

I do think there is a very solid case to be made that not only are mechanicals essentially unsuited for use with trad bows, but that the interest in using them (with a trad rig) reflects a fundamental doubt that the equipment is truly up to the task in the first place. Which is insane. Personally, I was a bit underwhelmed by the penetration I got with a Thunderhead 125 on the front end of about a 10 GPP (all-up) arrow from a reasonably fast recurve.... but my answer was to move to a COC head to gain a higher probability of second hole on the far side, rather than to try to cut any wider in between.

No doubt the modern compound delivers surplus energy for knocking most mechanicals out through the far side of a typical deer on a typical shot angle at typical range, but honestly I still don't see any real up-side to their use when I found it so simple to tune my rest to drop FPs and Stingers into the same group. Maybe my wheelie is just to slow for it to make any difference??

Sure, there are specialized applications like my acquaintance who is on a deer-culling mission in the 'burbs, but again - going way back to my original point here... If anyone is not entirely convinced that a trad bow will honestly gitterdone.... I wish he/she would stick to compound/crossbow/firearms season....

"I think the point is, mechanical heads shot from a compound are not the panacea some may fhink they are, and even with well-placed shots, they may fail to result in a kill."

And especially if their use gives the shooter a false sense of confidence that long shots are okay. If the end result is another wounded animal left in the woods for a rifle hunter to find, or a hiker who happens to be an anti- hunter, that is an image problem for all bowhunters.

That's why I "friggin care" and may be the underlying reason GF bothered to start this thread.

I'm sure glad guys who only shoot fixed blade heads always get pass throughs, never loose an animal and never take long shots. It's a known fact (just read it in the many post above) that every guys that uses a mec head only get one lung, loose every animal and can't get closer than 50 yards to their target. Those bastard compound and crossbow guys, nothing but bad people in the woods. Shame shame shame.

You haters are all a joke.

Man... I thought ****I**** was on a rant!!!!

GF.. your rant is just that.. A RANT. You bash mechanicals and call them whiz bangs but have never yourself tried them so for those of us who have and know for a fact that they work your opinion really is just your opinion. I think you said in another post about penetration that you shoot a Mathews Conquest 4 at 55lbs going roughly 240FPS with a drop away rest. Having a great understanding and knowledge of mechanicals I personally would not try a mechanical from your set up. However if you jacked up the weight to 62lbs and the speed to 260FPS I would in fact try it. Some mechanicals are marked "not for speeds under"... If you read my post you would see that I also said that I choose to shoot and hunt with traditional archery gear now. I gave up the mechanical advantage to pursue something more challenging.. something that takes more time..closer shots, ect. Never once did I say that I doubted what a traditional bow with a sharp broadhead could do.. If I doubted its ability, I would have never set out to try and take an animal with traditional gear. I also said that I have tested many broadheads.. In saying that my testing has consisted of shooting mechanicals and fixed blade heads into many objects at different distances, draw weights, and angles. Not a personal bash against you GF..not at all. I just have a different opinion backed by fact and personal experience in regards to mechanical broadheads... NO, I would never shoot one from my recurve and hope for good results. Not what they are designed for.

They will work. Actually, from my experience, the NAP Spitfire will do a better job than some fixed blades.

Every time one of these threads pop up, I just have to show this pic. :)

Ed-

Pardon my saying so, but all that picture really shows me is that this particular head is no worse than anything else when it comes to a really bad shot.

Not that a lot of animals haven't been taken fairly cleanly with spine hits, but it certainly nothing that I would think any of us would be looking to achieve.

On the other hand, if you try to drive a head of that width through a shoulder blade, you'll probably just slam it to a stop before you really penetrate inside the rib cage. At least if you're shooting a standard trad hunting rig. Now, a standard two blade head might be stopped as well, but it would leave a much smaller wound channel from hide to bone. And that might well be the difference in survival for that animal following the bad hit.

On the other hand, an extra inch of penetration might just close the deal....

??

I shot a doe from about 20 yards with a Rage off of my 70# compound last year. Went behind the on-side shoulder and out the offside shoulder. The 2" cutting diameter cut both lungs in half. I really wonder what it would do off of my trad bows. With all that being said, I always shoot a two-blade magnus or 3-blade wensel with my traditional bows.

Try it on a Texas whitetail and see--not on a Utah elk!

Well, not all mechanical broadheads are created-crafted equal for precision nor cutting..

Only value I ever saw in then is the fly like a field point..and upon contact( the good ones) open up and cut like a broadhead..

An archer can get his bow-arrows broadheads to fly like that with a bit of effort..and for a lot less money..AND a 2 blade broadhead is much easier to sharpen and hone..

I have no issues with whatever any archer chooses to use.. I DO hope that they choose wisely and their gear WORKS..:) Jim

Ill have to admit, Ive always wanted to use a broadhead called The Shwacker, just so I could keep saying shwacker.

Im just thankfull I can hunt with what I started with over 50 yrs ago.Whatever you hunt with have fun and be safe.

Didn't read every post on this thread, but most. One of the reasons the wheelie folks on the outhouse channels don't get good penetration is the extremely light arrows they shoot (and oftentimes long distances during which a light arrow slows faster). They probably wouldn't get terribly good penetration with fixed blade heads either.

NY Yanker, Zwickey almost sounds like Shwacker if you chew your words a little.

"but all that picture really shows me is that this particular head is no worse than anything else when it comes to a really bad shot."

That was a very close intentional neck shot from a loaded carbon and taken from the ground.

Use what ya want and let the world turn...

I liked the Rage Caveman commercial, but I shoot Zwickey Eskimos. No reason to change.

TinHorn

glue on shwackers for the traditional buff?....just kidding.

Gf your entitled to a rant..no harm done.

my opinion is let the mechanical's for the compound guys with enough bow to use them effectively.

Love the Helix by Tim Strickland! Makes a serious hole where ever you hit your game.

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