From: GF
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Date: 20-Oct-14 |
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Funny thing… Nearly 30 years ago I started off shooting 2018s, but I was never really happy about using them. Don’t honestly know why, anymore, but I’ve tried a lot of shafts since…… And long story short, just yesterday I bareshafted one of my Scrounge Bucket arrows from ‘way back when…. and danged if it doesn’t fly better than anything else I’ve tested since. Somewhat nock-right, but less than anything else I’ve tried…
Bows are marked #55 & 28”… drawing around 26.5” and shooting 125 grain points… didn’t think to measure the shaft length, but most of my arrows are 27 ¾”… I didn’t have these built to order, so I suppose that probably means they’re 28”?
Question is, if I want to shoot woodies going forward… What am I looking for, in terms of spine rating? And what difference will it make if I’m shooting fatter arrows than the aluminums? (Kind of assuming that I won’t find woodies of proper spine in the thinner diameter of the 2018s)…
And just to keep things interesting, I should mention that this is my Bighorn T/D with bomb-proof tips, but it has a B-50 back-up string on it right now… Not sure if that means the same bow will decide these shafts are too light in spine once I replace the string with a FF?
Any guidance you can offer??
THX!
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From: aromakr
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Date: 20-Oct-14 |
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2018 xx75 spines 67# the old gamegetters spine 70#. 2018's dia. is 20/64's or 5/16", but an 11/32" in 65/69 spine should be fine. Bob
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From: pointy sticks
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Date: 20-Oct-14 |
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my 2018's are 5/16 and spine righ at 65" on my tester. They shoot like darts off my Vision at 31" me pulling 55-56"
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From: GF
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Date: 20-Oct-14 |
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Man, is it cool to have this kind of access to guys who know their stuff this well!
Yeah, these arn't just the "old gamegetters", they're OLD gamegetters!
So slightly stiff now, then with a FF string I should be just about right. And shouldn't need to mess with my side plate, I hope...
Almost hoping I'll need to add a little weight up front......
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From: Bowmania
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Date: 20-Oct-14 |
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Why would you want to shoot an arrow with "somewhat nock right"? I'd be trying a 2016 and shooting without nock right.
Bowmania
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From: Rooty
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Date: 20-Oct-14 |
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For 28" arrow I would start at .400 spine 65#.
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From: GF
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Date: 20-Oct-14 |
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Todd - the 2018 is really just a point of reference regarding something that seems to be pretty close. My thinking there is that once I put a regular fast flight string on the bow, that should increase my spine requirements by a bit. And if not, since I'm planning to shoot wood, I figure I can always trim them just a little bit long, or go with a slightly heavier point if need be.
Of course, if your arrows ARE trimmed just a little bit long, some wiseguy will always accuse you of being over bowed and short drawing just because he can see a little shaft between the edge of the shelf and the point.... But I had my son videotape a few of my shots, and it seems to me that the base of that point is getting awfully close to my finger to be comfortable shooting broadheads. I guess my draw length is increasing as my form improves....
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From: GF
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Date: 21-Oct-14 |
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Didja ever notice how quickly you become annoyed by your own worst habits when it’s somebody else engaging in them? LOL…
And having said exactly that, I suppose I’m about to hijack my own thread by pointing out the tendency around here to send posts spinning off topic (LOL again, and mostly at MYSELF!).
BUT…..
Here I’ve stated a clear, simple objective: “I want to switch over to shooting wooden arrows.”
And I have asked a clear, simple question: “What spine wooden arrow equates to a 2018?”.
And 3 out of 5 responses are basically telling me that I’m using the wrong shaft size to begin with and/or recommending a spine rating for aluminum (or carbon?) arrows….
Maybe instead of LeatherWall, Pat should change the name of this site to ADD Nation…. Don’t get me wrong, fellas… As I said before, I’m laughing loudest at myself, but it’s no wonder the newer guys get confused…
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From: raghorn
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Date: 21-Oct-14 |
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55# bow at 28" and your draw is 26.5 so your actual draw weight is about 50-51# depending on the bow design. with a 125 head a wood shaft of 50-55# for a field point or add 5# for broadheads...so 55- 60# shafts.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 21-Oct-14 |
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Keep in mind, aluminum's are spined at 28", and cedar/wood at 26". So compare this chart with the 28" spine number when applying it to an aluminum spine designation.
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From: arras r fun
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Date: 21-Oct-14 |
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The calculated spine of the xx75 2018 is 67.9 pounds. If you go to my website, on the spine tester page you can download a paper on converting between the wood arrow spine method and the carbon/aluminum method. Also, charts that have the equivalent spine of all three material types compiled can be downloaded.
The conversion method: Multiply the carbon or aluminum deflection by 0.825 then divide 26" by this product to get the wood spine equivalent.
www.oakcreekarchery.com
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From: Kelly
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Date: 21-Oct-14 |
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And AROMAKER gave you the correct answer to your questions right after you posed them.
Ditto to the 67# and 70# spine ratings of the new and old 2018 shafting. So if you want to shoot wood shafts with your setup properly hand spined 65-69# are what you should use.
FYI, the spines that aromaker and I gave are those the resulted from us spinning various aluminum shafts on 26", the same that we use for wood. The scale on our spine testers is calibrated for a 28" arrow even though it has 26" centers. This has been the STANDARD used forever and also the AMO standard. So when comparing other shaft materials spine to that of wood you must use the same method of spinning, i.e. 26" centers with a 2# weight and a scale calibrated for a 28" arrow.
For any more info go to the spine charts at my website, www.arrowskp.com
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From: GF
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Date: 21-Oct-14 |
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Thank you, George, Kevin & Kelly, and thanks again to Aromakr…
Yep, Bob sure as heck DID give me the right answer(s), but I’m glad I kept after it… because now I feel like I’m beginning to make some sense of the numbers… Guess I’ve got a few websites to check out…
And as a follow-up… Is it that wooden arrows are graded and marked assuming that they’ll be coming off of a Hill-style longbow…. which would require a lower spine because more shaft flex is required in order to get around a non-centershot riser/grip?
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From: Kelly
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Date: 21-Oct-14 |
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Archers Paradox is to be considered when finding the correct spine for ones bow/archer combination.
A good spine chart will take into consideration the type of bow being used as long as point weight and string material.
Another thing to consider when using wood is that the total length of the shafts needs to be used when figuring spine, including part inside the broadhead and nock since the whole shaft flexes.
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From: GF
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Date: 21-Oct-14 |
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So… If you don’t have a spine testing apparatus… does it make sense to start with each shaft a bit on the long side and whittle it down in small increments until it flies well bare-shaft?
Or is there a quick-and-dirty spine tester you can build which doesn’t give micrometer readings, but can at least tell you that all of the arrows in a bunch are virtually the same? There are many times I can be overly concerned with precision, but there’s also a rational voice in my head that says it doesn’t matter exactly what the spine IS, as long as it IS what it is… and that your arrows all match up…
Have to admit that I’m hoping that the effective spine rating (for a given shaft) doesn’t change when you switch a FP for a BH…
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From: Kelly
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Date: 21-Oct-14 |
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IMO bare shaft testing will result in a stiffer spine than necessary. Feathers are on a shaft for a reason!
For thousands of years archers never would have thought about shooting shafts without fletching them.
This is not rocket science-there is no such thing as 1 perfect length/spine shaft per archer/bow combo. All will shoot a variety of spines and lengths accurately.
Cut your shats to your desired BOP length, fletch them and then shoot. Most archers are not proficient enough and possess impecible/repeatible form like a shooting machine does. Therefore most can not tell the difference between 15# spine nor 50 grains weight.
Most ill flying broadhead tipped arrows are the result of poor mounting.
In answer to your questions in order. No, Yes, there have been plans posted here and other sites for inexpensive DIY spine testors, most of the old timers shot their broadheads to eliminate "flyers"-then sharpened them. Any shaft that shoots a broadhead straight and true will do so with any point.
If your ultimate goal is to bowhunt then tune your bow/arrow combination with broadheads.
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From: Bowmania
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Date: 21-Oct-14 |
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GF, When ever I shot wood, whether I made them or had them made, I just told the guy I'm getting them from what I shoot. He'd just add weight for any point over 125 and inches for over 28 ect. They were always right on.
Bowmania
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From: GF
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Date: 22-Oct-14 |
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So who are you getting them from?
The more attention I pay to this, the more I appreciate the fact that making good arrows is an Art unto itself, and I’m not talking only about making them stunning to look at, though Lord knows we have a few guys around here turning out arrows that are FAR too purty ta shoot…
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From: GF
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Date: 22-Oct-14 |
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So who are you getting them from?
The more attention I pay to this, the more I appreciate the fact that making good arrows is an Art unto itself, and I’m not talking only about making them stunning to look at, though Lord knows we have a few guys around here turning out arrows that are FAR too purty ta shoot…
I'll have to check the archives for the DIY spine tester plans Kelly mentioned...
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