Okay, I have no idea what's going on. Here are my specs: 60" Predator Recurve 63#@28". My draw length is circa 27.75" so I'm pulling 61-62#. Before swithching to carbon I use to shoot GG 2117 cut to 28.25" tipped with 200gr. They would fly great. I've had it with the carbons I now shoot and would like to go back to my GG. I still had a few shafts but now when I shoot them they hit weak. I don't want to go below 200gr so dropping weight up front is not an option. Tinkered with the brace height and nothing. They hit weak. Of course a stiffer shaft is in order but I would like to know if anyone shoots a similiar set up and if so what's the prescription?

Build out the side plate of the riser.

What are you using for the shelf material?

Imo you should have been shooting 2216,s all along with 200. I shoot a 28" arrow with 200's on several bows in the 60# range. Cameron

Shelf material is the fuzzy portion of velcro. I've been considering the 2216, Cameron. You've had good results?

Yes. I shoot both aluminium and carbon out of several bows. I have from 45 to 73 # bows. From .400 to .376 is a small step. Being that you don't want to change tip weight and I don't blame you. 2216 will weight the same about 600grs. Witch is about 10 gpi with your set up. All your changing is .25 in spine which should put you in the zone. Before you buy put 125 gr on your 2117's if that corrects it go to 2216. Cameron

I am with Rooty on this one.

Cut the gg down a 1/4 " at a time tell the tune. Be surprised a quarter inch could do it.

Checked on stu cal. You are way under spined using same setup and arrow length you need 2315 a 2216 shows weak

Shoot spines not calulators. Every bow is different. 2315 is more of a compound arrow. If it's 340's that you need witch I doubt 2219 is a better choice.

I've cut the GG to as low as it'll go. I have maybe 1/4" clearance.

Rooty know his shiznit. I rummages through some old beat up shafts that I had in the storage room and I found two 2216's Easton Legacy arrows @29.5". I know not how they came to be, but I looked them over, spin test them, stripped the fletching, cut them to 28.25" right off the bat, fitted 200gr. on them and they flew great. Slightly weak but nothing that lowering the brace or cutting the .25" won't fix.

I'll have to agree with Rooty on the whole spine/ calculator issue. Dynamic spine and static spine are on opposite sides of the spectrum. I received a private message to even shoot a 2018!!!!! That's just plum loco. Thanks Rooty. Youzz izz da man!

I practise what I preach Tony.

Get some moleskin. Add a layer at a time to the side plate till you're tuned. Once you're tuned perfectly take the moleskin off in one piece and cut a strip out of it. Put that strip under your side plate.

Btw you'll be in good company. You shoulda seen how thick Fred Bears side plate was,lol. Otherwise I'd go too a 2216. I shoot 2219's out of 60lbs but I have a 32" draw length.

So thickening the strike plate will stiffen my arrow? I'm trying to paint the logic picture in that one. What's the point of cutting past center?

Rooty don't mess around. You're lucky you're not local or I'd be at your abode like a flies on decomposing deer carcass. If my eye does me justice, you have some FMJ is that batch. How do those fair for you and what would you recommend for my set up? I'm not a speed freak. I like my arrows to hit with authority because Murphy's Law is at large amongst bowhunters and if I were to be tried by Murphy's Law I want a dang good arrow to represent me. Last year, Murphy's Law was at large and I took a doe on the hind quarter. It was one of those things. Anyhoo, I was shooting 2117's with 200's. She ran maybe 60-70 yards, bedded and never stood up after that. I hit a buck a few weeks back smack dab on the shoulder and got maybe 8" of penetration. I blame myself for going with 145gr. I've had pass throughs, took one buck between the shoulder blades on a downhill shot and exited out the hind quarter. I want my arrow to drill like a core barrel drills through rock. I want energy and FOC. I want recovered deer not loss of deer.

Tony

Rooty, have you tried the Byron Ferguson Heavy Hunters? And if so what's your opinion on them? What's your opinion on carbon arrows period?

I shoot the Heavy Hunters out of my Predator and it has similar specs, 60" 61@28 and I'm drawing 28.5". I'm shooting the .300 spine with 225gr up front, they also have the standard insert which weighs 50gr I think. I like heavy arrows for hunting and these fit the bill. I also shoot Arrow Dynamics Traditional HammerHead arrows out of my Predator. These are also great carbon arrows with plenty of heft, check them out too.

The Heavy Hunters are .320 spine.

I like a/c/c pro hunters for carbons 440, 390, 340, 390 spine. Probably.390's for you but each bow is different I shoot 340's with 200's out of my kodiak. Happy tuning Tony

Why would you detune a bow for the price of a shaft. Cameron

Dead Ringer, thanks for the input and I believe you're correct on the Heavy Hunter .320 spine for me. I actually have a couple that are spined around .320 & .340 and I think those are the ones that are flying good with 200gr. I say, "I think" because I ordered a first batch of Heavy Hunters 400 and the spines were from .320-.390. My arrows were hitting all over the place. I tried returning them or having the vendor, can't mention the vendor's name for fear of being deleted from LW, and the vendor was belligerent in the matter. I chalked it off as a loss. I went with 3 Rivers and ordered another batch and it was a similiar situation but 3 Rivers corrected the issue no questions asked. Turns out that a vast majority of their HH inventory were not spined as dictated on the shaft. Dave hand spined all my shafts to be sure I was getting what I orderd. Well, those shafts were too weak for my 200grs so I went with 145grs to remedy the problem. It worked but I was uneasy about it even though they were flying great. I've has two situations so far of unrecovered deer. The most recent being yesterday (10/19/2014). I'm just not feeling the 145's.

Cameron, I would never detune my bow because of the price on a shaft. I would pay more if it improved the performance of my bow/ arrow. I'm reconsidering because the shafts I have, HH 400, were obviously too weak for my 200gr. I reconsidering my choice of shaft due to their performance on deer. I know it's not just the shaft to blame but in my opinion it's 99.99% at fault.

Sigh, here goes. Few weeks back I hit a small buck smack on the shoulder. I may have achieved maybe 8" of penetration which I believe was all flesh, none on the vitals. Lost that buck. Yesterday, 10/19/2014, I hit another buck. I was a very weird turn of events. I don't know if my arrow drifted or the buck's reflex movement but I caught him around the neck/ skull base area. It was a downhill shot about 35 yds, well within my comfort zone. Iexpected the arrow to have severed an artery and maybe even the spine from the skull. Nope, my arrow was sticking out 3/4 or more. The buck didn't even take off downhill as most of my previous deer. He bolted uphill. I watched him til I lost sight of him. I gave him two hours figuring he bedded just over the hilltop. The last spec of blood was where I saw him disappear. I combed that hilltop and hillside for hours. And get this, while on hand and knees, a nice 4x2 came out from below at 12 yards. I had the shot but couldn't take it since I just had started my search and I needed to recover that deer. I didn't even find my arrow. Now, I know I'm going to get comments on this but speaking from experience, that arrow should have at least been sticking out from both sides of that buck. Broadheads were sharp. The arrow didn't seem to have flown awkward, not that I could have noticed. I just feel it that 145gr doesn't provide the FOC my 200gr. have.

And for those whom are sceptic, last year I took a doe on the hind quarter. THE HIND QUARTER! With my arrow sticking out from both sides of her. She ran maybe 60-70 yards, bedded and never stood up again. So go figure.

I have same bow arrow set up. Had to set knocking point to almost 90 degrees . Its free , worth a try.

Ravenhood, why the nocking point? How does that help my arrow hitting weak/ stiff?

I dont know but it did .

Even though the 2117s flew okay , I ended up using 2216s or 2315s

2216 worked for me last night.

Bingo

Cameron, so what's the 411 on those FMJ's? What's your preference between carbon and aluminum?

lmao, tuning the bow and NOT the arrow is how it was done till the new trad thing came along with carbon arrows that didn't come in enough spine weights. When you tune an arrow you make that arrow the perfect spine for that bow at whatever centershot it is. When you tune a bow you make your bow need the exact arrow you have at the length you want. For you guys making fun remember, Olympic guys do it all the time, as do compounders. It worked for guys like Fred Bear and worked for everyone else till the late 80's and still works for a lot of us. Don't tune your bow if you don't want but no sense guys who have no clue making fun of guys who've done it their whole lives with great success or making fun of Olympic and freestyle limited guys who can shoot circles around all of us.

The point of cutting past center is so you can shoot stiffer shafts if you choose, which was done to make the bow more tunable, not the arrow,lol.

Ahh, GLF speaks words of wisdom. I was under the impression that thickening the strike plate would affect the bows center shot. Sort of like shooting fingers under when the bow was tillered for split fingers. I see said the blind man. Was blind but now I see. Thank you kindly, Sir.

Tony

I have 27.5 draw and cut 2018 to 28.5 and 200gr broadhead/insert in front and they fly great...with feathers. No idea what they do as a bareshaft and don't care. My 1920 shafts shoot the same.

That's great, Raghorn. I just feel more at ease if everything is in a corroborating order. Andy you're pulling in the 60# range?

Aaah GLF, how many folks on this thread do you figure remember the old Easton recurve set up instructions? Adjusting for center shot, etc. Not many I'll bet.

I'd like some elaboration, please on thickening the strike plate. It must be layered with "strike plates" or may something be utilized to thicken it.

Lol nope not many at all.

A thicker sideplate does not "stiffen" the arrow. A thicker sideplate will require a weaker spined arrow to shoot to center. A thinner sideplate will require a stiffer spine to do the same .

Okay, now I'm getting two different opinions on what thickening the strike plate does. It's becoming the Tower of Babel here. And if so, how do I thin the plate from it's standard plate. It's less than 3/16"

His arrows too weak, a thicker side plate will correct that. Yes it requires a weaker arrow but he already has that.

I thickened the plate as much as I'm comfortable with. My carbons are back in but my 2216 still hits weak except with 175gr but like I mentioned, lowering the point weight is not an option.

Tony,

Regarding the strike plate vs spine, it all breaks down like this:

A built-out strike plate, only mimics a non-centershot condition (think primitive bows). When this is the case the bow tunes with a WEAKER SPINED arrow because more bending of the shaft (paradox) is necessary in order to flex cleanly around the non-centershot riser/shelf area for proper flight.

So the further away from centershot you get, the more paradox you need... and hence the weaker spined shaft.

Therefore:

To reduce the spine of a shaft and make it act WEAKER either A) Cut it longer. B) Add more weight to the front end. C)Raise your brace height. D) Move the strike plate closer to centershot.

Conversely, to get a shaft to act STIFFER 1)Reduce point weight. 2) Build out riser/strike plate further from centershot. 3) Cut it shorter 4) Add weight to the nock end. 5) Switch to a heavier gpi shaft (which will essentially add weight to the back end and make the arrow act stiffer). 6) Lower your brace height.

The act of "Tuning" is striking the right balance of all these factors. Give this some thought and consideration then work through it pragmatically and systematically with what you got and pretty soon you'll have a gestalt for how to make a variety of configurations work. Good luck!

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