This is a photo from a hunting buddy's neighbor's game cam. My buddy hunts right around here and I hunt similar country a little farther north.

Pays to be vigilant!

Man - Pays to be well armed too!

Ask you can see from the photo: time was shortly after 5 a.m. Just about when a diligent elk hunter should be heading up the mountain to that favorite park. Top of the food chain right there.

Beautiful animals, but sure would hate to walk up on that in the dark!!!!!! Tom

Have to have a big pair to move around in the dark there. Don't think I could even hunt the daytime with that around. Yikes!!!

Can you skin Griz, pilgrim?

You just have to tickle it under it's chin and they become teddy bears. The hard part is getting under the chin:). Knowing that they are around would certainly make me want to walk in with some more light.

With BigFoot bringin' up the rear... Check out that eye-shine!

That IS kinda scary, though... Kinda makes you wonder how sneaky you really want to be as you wind your way up that trail...

Looks very powerful! I've never been around bears while hunting, how big is that one?

It's a conservative guess, but I'm thinking 550 to 600 pounds. They trapped a 900-pound male off the Rocky Mountain Front about 20 years ago 45 miles or so due north of this location.

It's a conservative guess, but I'm thinking 550 to 600 pounds. They trapped a 900-pound male off the Rocky Mountain Front about 20 years ago 45 miles or so due north of this location.

There are plenty of these in that same locale -- and they are extremely quiet.

Hmmm. dished face, wide set ears, and hump on shoulders????? Is this in Griz country? And what Curt said.

550-600#...his head looks like it's about 100#!!!

Very cool photo, thanks for sharing!

Very much griz country: about 12 years ago a rifle hunter shot an elk not too far from here (not that far in bear terms) and as he began field dressing it a griz attacked him and then ate part of him.

Right near the top of the Rocky Mountains...in the Northern Continental Divide Ecosystem. Near the Great Bear Wilderness.

Nice wild country...lions, wolves, bears, wolverines.

One thing I kept in mind when I lived out there....You are NOT at the top of the food chain ! I was more leery of the cats. Was followed more than once !

Wow!

I read recently that they have learned to move toward the sound of a gun shot. There will at least be a gut pile in the area....

Yeh it's called the "Dinner Bell" Theory read a few stories about the subject. A Griz is still on my bucket list tho... just not in the dark.

There enough grizzlies in Montana and Idaho -- the Yellowstone Ecosystem and the Northern Continental Divide Ecosystem -- that the US Fish and Wildlife Service will be considering recommending that they be delisted within the next year or two.

They following the rivers and streams way out on to the prairies where they used to be regulars...

They were fair game in Montana until early to mid 1960s.

Thanks a lot, Harley! I'm leaving out tomorrow from near Billings and was thinking about hunting the Front Range. I've seen a young grizzley when hunting there (a few years ago) but the shining eyes and the hump may cause me to change my mind. They make him look even more scary. Be careful. Hope you are hunting with a partner and can out run him.

Olbuflo, don't let me run you off from your planned hunt. But you do have to be alert and careful. If I am hunting in grizzly country, I always carry bear spray and a side-arm. Lots of debate about effectiveness of guns and I would try and use the spray first.

But several years ago a guy saved his new wife by pumping six or seven rounds from a 1911 into a grizzly in, I think, Denali National Park.

I hunt by myself a lot and around camp I am armed to the teeth. I sleep with a 12 gauge loaded with slugs, my .45 and bear spray. I have seen grizzlies out in the wild but never had a problem. But, I will say, they scare the shit out of me.

glad they are not in Ohio. Id hate to give up hunting.

On another thread, Wild Bill said something about carrying a small can of pepper spray the same way that a lot of guys carry a neck knife.

Just a thought. Damn good one....

But really,Mike... Didn't you ever see Tim Treadwell's show? They're just big, misunderstood teddy bears.. Honest! It was on TV!!

Myself, I keep wondering if 10% capsaicin is strong enough... The Mace snubbie pistol seems like it'd be a it easier to get into action than an aerosol can with some clunky safety gizmo on the cap... but no sense just pissin' 'em off.

When I'm in bear country the bear spray stays strapped on my belt. I make a point to "practice" with it, getting the safety clip off and having it ready. No need to even take it off my belt.

Harley--no, you didn't scare me off, I'm heading up later, but stopping off near Helena to go to the protest against public lands sell-off there.

See you there? Look for an old, silver-haired guy.

Matt, I did see a documentary about Timothy Treadwell and I read Mike Lapinski's good book about Treadwell's demise. Treadwell was an idiot.

Hey Jack, aka Olbuflo, I just might make the Public Lands rally in Helena...If you see an exceptionally handsome, well-toned, guy surrounded by women, that aint me. I will watch for you. Look at that cat picture above and throw another 50 pounds and that would be me.

We don't have Grizzlies around here, but we do have Black Bear that will go up to Grizzly size....700'ish pounds. That's enough to get my attention. I started carrying a cheap flare pistol...figure if nothing else I can get their attention if the want to get too close. So far I've had no issues even with some close encounters.

The scariest time I have had while afield here in the west was being stalked by a mountain lion.. I've hunted lions often in Arizona..with hounds..but this was her hunting me..in eastern Oregon during elk season-archery..

Ended up having to end to end arrow her at five yards.. That put a stop to her attack mode..when even me standing up and yelling and waving didn't deter her..

Female with two cubs as it turned out..and a partially eaten deer carcase covered 150 yards away...

Black bears will eat humans..Genrally, the brownies and grizzlies may kill you..but not for food..:) Nighttime traveling or camping is when such critters are most active..Keep your camp food waay out of reach..and don't use bacon fat for dry skin treatment..:) Jim

George, stats are that black bears kill or injure more people every year than grizzlies do. Makes sense. Black bears are more numerous and inhabit more areas, including more densely populated areas.

The thing about bears that always amazes me is: they are fast as cats. Whether coming at your or running away from you, they are fast.

"I did see a documentary about Timothy Treadwell and I read Mike Lapinski's good book about Treadwell's demise. Treadwell was an idiot."

ROFLMAO, brother... Ya THINK????

But oddly enough, that may have been a predatory attack, no? I believe both of 'em got et.... I guess she's not the first girl to meet an untimely demise because she trusted her boyfriend's judgment, but it rarely ends in such spectacular fashion...

George - why a flare gun instead of pepper spray??

Live and hunt the same country or similar country to harlywriter, and I try not to fear the predators, most of the time unless something is wrong they fear us.

I am armed I carry the short shotgun with a round of bird shot, then a slug then double oo buck. theory is first round will pepper them and run them off, if not second round hits like a freight train. third round increases my chances. then all slugs after that.

Have had tense moments with both cat and bear, if you see them and they haven't killed you they likely will not. If they were going to kill you it would be over before you knew it. Have never needed the shot gun but fear that if I ever did i would be dead before I realized the need. Have drawn my bow on a lion but it was stalking my son and didn't see me, when it did it was gone, no shot.

oz

Well, I've read several articles about using the flare gun/handheld flares. My issue with the pepper spray is on windy days you may get more on yourself, but perhaps that is not necessarily an issue. You also have to buy it online around here, I've not seen any in the local sporting goods stores. I'll keep looking though. I don't want to kill them unless it's totally necessary. Here's an article about various repellents.

http://peninsulaclarion.com/stories/110306/outdoors_1106out002.sht ml

Well, shoot, George, if you're gonna feed 'em your stringy old butt, you may as well seasons yourself up a bit!

Sorry... Just crackin' myself up today.. been a looonng week, I guess...

Mace pistol is a 20-ft stream that shouldn't blow around much.

Kimber uses a powder charge that should defeat the wind issue, but you only get two shots out of it...

But both are only 10% hot stuff, and the Mace people won't tell you that it's hot enough for bears. Of course they won't tell you that is ISN'T, either, so they appear to be hoping that somebody will use it successfully and they'll have a sufficiently deniable endorsement so that sales will spike without exposing themselves to any liability in case the first time was a fluke...

I have both the spray and a 12 ga marine flare pistol when I enter the state park where I hunt most often. I've seen enough bears there and talked to enough hunters to take precautions. The DEC tells me that there just aren't enough killed by hunters there. I spoke at length with an officer who told me he in in the local town pulling bears out of garbage cans 3 nights a week.

Well George and Pointer, I have to say a flare gun is one of the worst defense weapons I have heard of.... (1) you only get one shot (SO Don't miss) (2) you are shooting a live flare, it doesn't go out immediately so if by chance you do hit the bear it will bounce off and it will still come at you and probably catch the countryside on fire in the process. (3)If you miss which is highly probable your out of ammo and you still catch the countryside on fire. Me personally I like the .45 route strapped to my hip. Just saying

My son lived in Montana in the Bozeman area and his buddy got attacked by a Grizz while he was hunting Elk. It was a sow with two cubs and she got him before he could get up a tree. Lost two toes and tore up his calf muscle. Almost bled out but ran into a hiker who helped him out of the woods. He told me the Bear could of killed him, she was on top of him but just left when her cubs were out of danger.

This picture of that Bear would make me think twice about sneaking in to my stand in the dark. In fact, I might wait until well after sun up and bring my pump shotgun too! I would want more than my recurve if that critter was after me.

Just had a hiker mauled and killed by a black bear here in NW NJ. Knew it was going to happen sooner or later. Many hunters have been trailed by bears while dragging out their deer and I know of one who had a bear on his kill, that had dropped in sight, before he could even get down out of his stand. Granted, a black bear's rep isn't as notorious as a griz's, but I still wait until some daylight before starting in to my stand. There have been two 850+ lbs. bear taken in the last two years. Wise to exercise caution when hunting in bear country.

I am sorry, the knowledge of grizzles in my hunting area would take a lot of the enjoyment out of the hunt for me. If I was camping in a tent I probably would not get a lot of sleep.

Thankfully there are only black bears where I hunt but they are becoming more of a problem all the time here in Colorado. The anit-hunters stirred up the non hunters in Denver and they voted to outlaw baiting and hounds in bear hunting several years ago and now bear numbers and increasing rapidly. I have seen a bear walking up the sidewalk in front of my house and just last week a bear left a big pile of scat right next to my house and I live in town, not out in the country.

After not doing so for many years I have started carrying a 357 magnum every time I am out in the woods. This year while elk hunting I had my first close encounter with a bear at about 30 feet. I didn't need the gun but it was nice to have it just in case. As others have said they are very fast, I'm just glad it was going away instead of toward me. If it would have been a sow with cubs it may have been a different story.

IF it had come at me there would have been no way to get an arrow nocked and shot in time. Not sure I would have time to draw my pistol either.

Well motorhead, I'll tell you what Jay Massey told another hunter about carrying a pistol; file the front sight off of it, so when the bear shoves it up your arse, it won't hurt so bad. LMAO.

For your information, the flare guns have been used successfully for bear repellent, and tell me how many controlled shots you will get off on that charging bear with your hog leg. I don't have grizzlies here, just big-assed black bears. I'll feel just as confident with my flare gun as I would with a 45 pistol. If I carry a gun, it would be something with AA buckshot and a short barrel.

Mr. Stout; I agree with 99% of what you write and I have followed your wisdom and advice on here for years. But we are discussing BIG BEARS and you would chose a single shot flare pistol over a 1911 .45 Auto pistol??? Are you sniffing Fletch-Tite in an unventilated space? Ha Ha! Just kidding, but seriously... On this topic Sir, I will disagree with you. :)

I carry some extra weapons in case one of these vicious creatures comes around - you can never be too careful!

I hunt in grizzly territory all season long. And I own numerous firearms, so my following comment isn't coming from an "anti-gun" standpoint by any means:

Most people are utterly fooling themselves carrying a handgun in grizzly territory. ESPECIALLY anything less than a .44 Mag. loaded with heavy rounds.

And even with that (or a .454), you better be damn proficient with it. And I don't mean at the range, I mean trained to be extremely accurate with a high-caliber short barrel in high-stress, rapidly changing situations on fast moving targets. If you aren't, then you may as well turn it on yourself and spare the drawn-out experience of being eaten.

There are times, especially if I'm on a multi-day trip in grizz country, that I will carry a firearm in addition to bear spray, but bear spray will still be the first thing I will reach for in any short-range, surprise encounter (which, statistically, is the vast majority of attacks). The gun is for those rare occasions where I may have the time and distance (and luxury) to make a decision about the proper course of action and properly acquire my target if neccesary.

Not telling anyone else what to do by any means, just sharing experience as someone wh lives and hunts with that possibility all the time.

George - I'm sure that a 12-ga. flare screaming right at your head rates pretty damn high on the shock & awe index...

But yeah, being from out West myself, my first thought is the size of the fire that you'd start by doing that. It's snowing up there right now, but there are I-don't-know-how-many-million lodgepoles up there that have been dead and drying out for YEARS now... You get a fuel base that size started burning, and Conflagration doesn't begin to do it justice... Make Yellowstone '89 look like a weenie roast...

Wayne, the camera is in the yard of a cabin...on private land...I don't know if that makes any difference but it is not on national forest or state land.

I get your point though, game cameras are not legal during hunting seasons.

GF, chances are good that I'll never have to use it, but a 7 second fireball will keep a bear busy, and I'll deal with the small fire if I'm still alive. I certainly am quite aware of what can happen with fire and woods, but it's not the same back here.

Wayne, I am with you. I have no cameras and no land and right at the moment, no way to get out hunting.

YES GEORGE !!!! I will take my 7 to 8 shots to your 1 shot chance any day of the week and twice on Sunday, don't be a smart ass about it, you know I would have a waaay better chance to defend myself with a .45 than a stupid flare gun and I WONT take a chance of setting the country side on fire. I am very efficient with my weapons, besides that I am younger than you and I KNOW that I can outrun YOU. LMAO at YOU.

All animals have an instinctive fear of fire and I believe a flare gun to be a pretty good source of bright hot nasty fire. I do not live in bear country but have seen a few in my travels. A .45acp may scare the bear off but they are thick skinned heavy boned tough animals and I would think the next person to encounter a wounded pissed off bear might not be too appreciative. I may be talking out my arse but if I had to resort to a handgun in a bear encounter it would be a .454 or bfr in 45-70 or .444. Pepper spray or flares get my vote.

Wrestled one once trained but still had claws and wasn't muzzled. Trainer said he weighed in at 825. WOW what power and not even trying. Two weeks later the bear was put down because some moron decided grabbing the bears balls would help him win.

Needless to say the guy was severely mauled as were a couple of people in the audience. Too bad, it was a beautiful animal and actually quite friendly as it laid on me and licked my face :o)

Cant see any reason to use a flare gun. If the bear has one of your body parts in his mouth, there's a pretty good chance he has your location dialed in.

Hey tuckerdog, you are saying you would take a single shot over a semi auto?? especially in a large caliber like a .45, you guys are missing the point... you are pitting a single shot flare gun up against a large caliber repeating weapon, all I did was take a que from an earlier post who mentioned a .45 auto. It don't matter to me not one bit which it is a .454 .44mag hell I am saving my dollars right now for a .500 S&W. But you guys go ahead and keep your flare gun. I am soooo glad I don't live anywhere near you guys let alone hunt in the same woods. You would be far more informed if you read about the Cedar Creek fires in southern CA a few years ago and you would see the damage a FLARE GUN STARTED.

Our regs forbid carrying a firearm during archery season. We have lions all over, but most bears are right here in Reno and Tahoe. TBM - article says use wasp spray

When I lived in AK, I had a large pistol as we did not stand hunt and seldom moved after dark or before dawn. I just avoided the ones I saw and clanked when in thick stuff

I like the redundant system: spray first then gun. When bears come at you, they come mighty fast and usually it is up close. So you might have one or two seconds.

Motorhead not wishing for an argument but no I would not wish to start a fire. Drove through one in Georgia (I know it wasn't out west) scary as crap! Only saying I would not care to face a large carnivore with an acp. In the second or two you might have the most effective deterrent you have at the time is the best option, with a flare I don't imagine you would have to hit it just fire in front of it. All animals great and small fear fire even more than man.

As I said never had an encounter and probably wont due to prohibitive cost of an Elk or Moose hunt. So I am only thinking.

I said it when this came up before and I’ll say it again... I think that if you went into the field with (and used) the wasp killer when pepper spray was a legal option, you would find yourself up against a whole raft of charges ranging from using a pesticide “in a manner inconsistent with [its] labeling” (which would be a Federal thing) to animal cruelty. Not to mention the black eye that it would give to every other hunter in the woods… It’s one thing to improvise in an emergency, but to CHOOSE the pesticide over pepper spray takes a pretty sick b@stard.

Granted, if I were in Africa dealing with poachers and pepper spray was not an available option, then that would be an emergency worth improvising around… On an animal, I would sooner use a gun. On a person… Maybe then, too. It wouldn’t do my conscience any good knowing that the Bad Guy had survived, only to become meaner and more desperate than before. At least when you pepper-spray a bear, they usually learn to leave those damn two-leggeds alone after that…

Funny thing…. According to the website of one of the companies that manufacture hot-rodded pistol and levergun ammo, black bears are wimps, and easily discouraged. Don’t know. Can’t say.

But it does make a certain degree of sense to think that if a bear is going to be scared off by a flare, then why not by the flash & bang of a moderate-sized handgun cartridge? If the bear were in mid-charge when you fired at it, it’d be past the flare practically before it knew the gun had gone off. And if it were standing off at any distance, you could easily deploy the pepper without torching the whole county. I know George said something about “A small fire” (emphasis mine), but it seems to me that a flare would skitter and bounce quite some distance across the ground, quite possibly creating a good number of “small fires”, many of which could get entirely out of hand in the time it took the shooter to deal with just one…

It’s going to take a pile of paperwork and cost me a couple hundred dollars to do it, but I’ve got to get my pistol permit squared away. Then in case of a Bear Situation, my Plan A is pepper spray, followed by a hot-loaded DA revolver. Much better odds of hitting effectively on a moving target with the spray, and if you fail with that you’ll most likely be firing with the muzzle pressed into the bear’s hide anyway. Sure would suck to have your 1911 go out of battery right when there’s a bear gnawing on your leg…

The approved method of dealing with a problem bear, be it black or grizzly, is to dial 911 and wait for the authorities to take care of the situation. While waiting for the authorities, you should show your PETA membership card and discuss flora and fauna with the teddy bear. That keep and bear arms business is really so outdated, written by some ancient old rich white guys and we are way beyond that now as a progressive society that respects the rights of all creatures.

Crossed Arrows my Friend...That...Made me Laugh!...Thanks Bud...4finger

This feller was in my yard last bow season. I have to remember to hold my ground, yell and look large if I bump into him in the dark!! LOL! :0)

Motorhead...not trying to argue with you..Im sure the threat of a forest fire is real enough but I will say I've lived here all my life and I can't ever recall one in that area of the state where I hunt. So much of the area is lakes, beaver pond and swamp its probably not an extreme risk...of course I don't know that for certain. I carry it along with the spray because they've been used in Alaska successfully. Doug Borland, who has written extensively in TBM and is an Alaska resident frequently carries one and wrote a piece s few years ago detailing that they are quite popular for bear deterrence. I have no experience with charging bears at all but I think a white-hot flare fired in their direction and landing anywhere close should be enough deterrent if I run onto one. If not, the spray is a second line of defense. Firearms are not legal here during bow season...if they were I'd be carrying one. A short barreled side by side most likely. Since I can't at least I know the flare pistol will send a flare 50yds or so which is better than the spray which is useless beyond 20 feet.

Monty Browning is a huge handgun guy...hunts Alaska all the time..he carries spray and a .44 and wrote straight up that the pistol makes u feel good when you have your thumb on the hammer but other than that you are kidding yourself if you think it's gonna stop a charge. He wrote he couldn't stop a running hog with his .44 even loaded with the hottest loads he's ever used.

So unless you are talking about a 460 or 500 S&W I wouldn't count on a pistol.

A pistol may not stop a charge but if a bear has me down chewing on my leg I would much rather have a pistol to stick in his ear than a knife.

Back in the mid 90's I was turkey hunting in Blandford Ma., which has a fair black bear pop., as I was walking through open hardwoods, on a steep hill, I caught a glimpse of something black, up ahead of Me, jet by. First thought was just a turkey, but no it was a cub black bear. I lost sight of it for a second, and thought it was "cool" to have that harmless encounter with the bear. As I looked back to My left, down hill, I saw the cub get together with, "mom", then I started thinking kind of quick, " don't bears usually have a couple cubs" well regardless if My assumption was correct or not,I looked to My right, which was up the steep slope, and lo and behold there was cub #2, about 6 feet up a tree, ears back, and blatting, well I quickly looked back left, down hill, and mother was kind of MAD, all I remember is she made a woofh noise, and then I heard that teeth popping, and she was CHARGING, yes sir, between mom and her cub, not the best place to be while turkey hunting. I knew I had to make a lot of distance from the cub, so I ran 90 degrees away from cub and charging mom, thinking of a plan while I ran. I saw a big flat rock to jump up on, thinking a tree was out of the question, anyhow, I was out of gas running up hill, made it to the rock, jumped up spinning around with shotgun, with My plan, if she was on top of Me do what I had to do with My "bear" load of #6 shot nitro-mags. When I spun around all 3 bears were gone, didn't even see them far away running off, that was all o.k. with Me. Well that was no 500lb. grizz., but that 150-175lb angry mother black bear left a pretty lasting memory with Me.

Well, I will bow to Jay Masseys experience anyday. But, my mind tells me to carry something that makes big holes and goes BANG. As opposed to something that I have to "shake well before using" and goes Psssssst !!

Tom - Yikes!

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