Not sure why we need a Trad only season. I feel pretty confident competing with the Wheelies. It's all about hunting skills and getting close.

No. for a separate season.

NO

Yes but not because it would give me any perceived advantage. Some people just are not going to get Ron's reasoning behind wanting an established season and I am in the Ron camp for wanting it. You could have run this same poll 50 years ago (had there been a net) on the inclusion of compounds via special season and gotten similar results.

No

I agree with Tracker. Sportsmen have already separated themselves enough into groups. I really don't feel at a disadvantage because I hunt with traditional equipment. It was a matter of choice and personal limits I set on myself. I would try to get close and make the best possible shot no matter what I am using. As far as bringing attention to the sport I believe you can do just as much by personally taking a youth or friend under your wing and exposing them to the sport. Although I love traditional archery I am not of the mindset that it's for everyone.

I hunt "Traditional" all season long- just because that is what I like the best

The rest can do what they want

Though I still belive Archery= is longbow /recurve

and muzzle loader is actual/replica up to the Civil war era

the rest is gun season stuff (keep the primitive seasons primative)

those are just my old out dated thoughts

Not sure why you would want a separate trad only season. Seems to me if trad gear is all you hunt with then you already have a trad only season. No

No.

No.

I don't think I'd support only a traditional archery season. I'd want it to be a Heritage season, including side lock ML's. Perhaps someone could word the poll properly?

NO, why do we not just all stick together and hunt for the right reasons. Not because someone shoots a compound or even a crossbow for that matter. We are all hunters and should stick together! I just want hunters to know their equipment, and make ethical shots, whatever they are using!

BKW said it for me

Actually, the polls turned up a fantastic idea from one poster. In Michigan, we already have the Liberty hunt (for youth and disabled/disabled vets) and the Early Antlerless season on the 3rd weekend in September. Since people are already deer hunting that weekend, why not add the Heritage Season on that same weekend?

Yes but to include flintlocks. I like the idea of growing interest in the primitive arts. Jawge

^^ but then it wouldn't be elite... kids and vets with guns and crossbows and stuff.

It would be just another any weapon season.

George, I would definitely want side hammer ML's included. I don't know how other states do their youth and handicapped hunts or any early antlerless seasons, but including traditional archery and side lock ML's in a short 2 day season that already exists is a wonderful idea. I wish I had thought of it.

Mojostick, including youth and handicapped is a wonderful idea. Crossbows ok as long as they are wheel less. Credit where credit is due. Including primitive front loaders was Ron's idea as was the concept of growing interest. Jawge

they already are included?? If you want to go hunt antlerless deer Sept. 20/21 in Michigan just buy a tag and hunt. Bow, Gun, Muzzle Loader, Cross gun - whatever. Just have to wear orange and follow gun rules.

It's never supposed to be elite. Just the opposite, it's supposed to be welcoming. It's supposed to drive interest for those hunters on the fence about trying traditional archery and traditional ML's to the point where they finally decide to hunt with one, where they otherwise wouldn't without the incentive of the special opportunity. If for the same reason Michigan does "free fishing weekends" so parents who want to try taking their kids fishing for an hour a year don't have to buy an annual license. And it's a good incentive.

No. Just dance with the girl you bring to the party.

No. In Okla. I can hunt 3 1/2 months with a recurve. I couldn't care less what anyone else hunts with.Kenny

Nope, that ship sailed back in the late 70's when the wheels came in.

Bush, The Sept. 20/21 Antlerless season is firearm only and only on select private land in select counties. You must have landowner permission and a landowner tag, with phone number. The youth hunt is only open to youth and the disabled hunt is only open to disabled hunters. What Ron and I are talking about is increasing opportunity and incentives for more hunters to learn about and experience a Heritage Hunt.

No to traditional only. It brings too many folks tryin to sneak technology in and eventually we couldn't hold the gate, it would get watered down, and wouldn't mean squat.

Yes to a more restrictive Primitive Archery season, beginning in September for deer, squirrels, grouse and rabbitts and running straight through until the end of Feb. No synthetics or metals used, no treestands. Natural materials only... wood, bone, horn, sinew, rawhide, etc.

i agree with u stick and string just hunt who cares what we use, bow sites and gun sites to much drama

No

A more interesting poll may be, who doesn't like a youth hunt, early antlerless or ML season? LOL The numbers may be similar.

Yes, but I would have like to have read:

If there was a special season for traditional archery would you hunt it?

I think you have had many different answers.

"If there was a special season for traditional archery would you hunt it? I think you have had many different answers."

I am sure you are right. Thats why we have the numbers in bowhunting that we do today. Because a special season was started and gun hunters came over to it.

If there's a season open I'll be out there enjoying myself; you can call it whatever you want. I don't care for semantics much.

I'd hunt a Heritage Hunt in the morning and later take my kids out for the youth hunt in the afternoon, with a .243 and an antlerless tag. I have friends who've expressed interest in both using one of my traditional bows or ML's, but when regular season opens, they still stick to their compound or scoped inline, in case a mature buck shows up out of "trad range". If there was a Heritage Hunt, I have several friends whom I suspect would try either/both, for the first time ever.

If it is added in VA without taking away from the existing seasons which translates into more hunting time then yes. My suggestion would be the month of September in VA.

So I went to the Archerytalk site and looked over the responses. I cant put any faith in the poll, not because it was worded wrong...that was fine. The problem I am seeing is that people didnt read it or they dont understand it. Everyone jumps the gun it seems.

The question was "To highlight traditional archery" The responses are heavily weighted towards comments that contend that this idea is to exclude others or take away from others. Further, comments that specify ability, while a legitimate concern perhaps, do not speak to the intent of the reasoning for the traditional only season as described by the author.

I dont know as I saw one person respond to the intent portion of the question which was the only portion that was asked about. People saw "traditional only season" and shut down or blew up. Nobody is answering the question for what it was.

Sorry but this poll is failed based on the commentary from the voters. On this site at least.

I agree with Andyman

Well, the poll was premature and not even worded correctly. It's possible the poll was created by someone who doesn't want more traditional archers and meant to cloud the water.

We're talking about a Heritage Hunt, where both traditional archery and traditional side lock muzzleloaders are involved. It's inclusive because it involves bow hunters and gun hunters. Personally, I'd also like to see a "no elevated stands" in the Heritage Hunt to open up a hunting world that many younger folks don't know exists and also have DNR's teach the heritage of the primitive weapons. I'd even bet some schools would welcome such information and would be an opening for many non-hunters to see hunting in a positive and historical light, instead of what they may see elsewhere in the media.

This way, hunter education classes would also pay more attention to traditional archery and traditional ML's, thus teaching parents and kids about "different ways" of doing things.

Sure is a lot of talking for a Yes or No question.

Well the way I was thinking was that this poll was done because of the thread Ron put up awhile back. I never heard or saw anything about a heritage hunt until today...maybe yesterday. The poll asked what I had been hearing Ron say, which was a season to promote traditional bowhunting. Nothing more. I think it was worded fine but the author never stepped in to correct people who responded incorrectly to the poll question. That was definitely misleading due to the fact that people were allowed to build on a false premise.

No

Ron has been talking about combining both traditional archery and traditional ML's (sidelock/flintlock/open sight) on numerous occasions. And again, the poll was premature because we're merely talking about concepts, as of now.

A more pertinent poll question would have been...

"Would you be open to considering allowing the general statewide hunting public to use traditional bows and traditional muzzleloaders in existing deer seasons that currently do not allow the general statewide public, and in the case of the early antlerless season in Michigan, do not allow traditional bows?

it would be nice but no because we would have to many hunters trying to shoot trad. just to hunt more and this would probably end up with a lot more wounded animals and that's not far to the animals are the traditional hunters. could make the traditional equipment look bad. and antis would push to end trad. hunting all together. I have 3 1/2 monthes to shoot traditional. and enjoy it.

I don't like change, but I have learned to accept it. I believe in protecting the resource. If the pop. is such that extra special seasons could be useful then there may be a place for special seasons. I believe archery only will always be an option for places where firearms can't be used. This is where the bowhunting is still behind the times as a viable use to manage the resources.

Don't know what all the fuss is about here in Oregon there is a area set aside for traditional archery hunting only it runs the same time as the rest of the states archery season. It is in a deferent area every year and works well has never been a issue.

Yes for the reasons I've stated a dozen times.

If a "Heritage" season was to become a reality I believe most of those that are now against it would become supportive.

I posted this on the other thread by mistake thinking I was on this thread. It's starting to get a little confusing isn't it? :>)

Yes. Just fun to bump into other hunter in the woods during a set time that love the same equipment I do.

no

Yes.

no, it would take away from the potential days I have to hunt. When you have a job you can't always get out so you need all the days you can get in case you don't have to work. Add to that mix family obligations and unforseen stuff and you need all the hunting days you can get.

NO!! We don't want to fragment ourselves. If you're hunting with traditional equipment, it's by your choice. Same as with semi-auto or bolt or lever rifles, or single shot, pump or semi-auto shotgun.

As I pointed out, I thought your poll was introduced very well but the problem comes when you allow people to misinterpret what you have said and not correct those misstatements, which allows the next reader to that response to interpret that (because you didnt correct) that this is just what you intended.

This is why I stay on my threads and hammer on people who are attempting to take my points in other directions. You should have done the same, unless it was your intent to have the discussion go in the direction that it did on the Archerytalk site...which is the only site which I looked at for this poll.

Too many people shoot first and ask questions later on the net. They see a topic title and respond knee jerk to it.

I could write about "wanting to keep hunting alive in america" in the body of a thread but let me put in the title "Who would vote for O'babma again" and you would see the vast majority saying no in their responses. The vast majority of people on these boards just dont read into the body of the topic. It is up to the author to be vigilant and pilot that ship through the storm and rocks. If you dont want to do that then dont complain when people point out that your polls are faulty.

K Cummings wrote:

The poll was in direct response to the recent threads on the LW regarding a "traditional only" seasons, and whether or not they would be considered divisive. My poll questions were not leading in any way, and spoke directly to the reason that the supporters of such a season (Ron L. and others) said they wanted them.

The Poll question was as follows:

_________________________________________________________________

"Would you support a "Traditional Archery Only" season in your state? For example, a week or 10 day season after all other seasons have closed? The purpose of the season would be to bring more attention to hunting with longbows and recurves, and to ultimately increase participation with this style of equipment.

Thank you for your opinions."

_________________________________________________________________

It doesn't surprise me in the least that those that don't like the outcome of the poll would suggest that it's faulty, but it's obvious, at least to me, that the hunting community in general would not be in favor of such a season. Based on their responses, they would also find it rather divisive. As it stands, in the state of MI, traditional archers, can already hunt in 90+% of the available days open to deer hunters.

I'm not sure how much more we expect, but apparently some do, regardless of how it is perceived by the hunting community.

KPC

No

No

No.

I do not mind sharing the woods with modern archers and hope they never feel the need to stop sharing the woods with me!

No.

Yes, as long as it was a period added to the archery season and does not take away any hunting from the existing season that allows non traditional bow hunting equipment.

No

I’ve been steering clear of the other threads on this, just because I think I’d end up single if I were to really get engaged in the debate….Well, not quite, but only because my wife is an incredibly forgiving person…

Anyway, I think I can get in and out on this one pretty clean, and the answer is… It depends.

JMO, where you come out on this depends entirely on how and where and what you hunt. If you spend your day on or in a stand/blind waiting on whitetails, you could have a hunter density of 1 per acre and hardly know the other guys were there. In fact, if you were set up right, it could work to your advantage… Plenty o’ room for EVERYBODY.

On the other hand… There were some telemetry studies done (20+ years ago) where they found that pressured Elk can run for 2-3 MILES when they’ve been well and truly spooked. So if you’ve spent several hours hiking a couple of miles into an area, you can have your entire day blown to hell by a mistake committed by a guy who’s a half or three-quarters of a mile away. And you wouldn’t even know it. You’d just think the DOW had gotten it wrong and all of the Elk had been shot up or et by wolves…

Granted, these studies I read were done in rifle seasons and – luckily – bowhunters are less likely to put that kind of a scare into a herd, but the point is that for mobile hunters who’re after a highly mobile quarry, the sense of what constitutes “crowded” is a totally different calculation.

I would guess that at least 80% of bowhunters favor Stand- hunting tactics, and I know that the last time I checked the wheel-shooters were over 90% of bowhunters, so it seems to me that 80%-90% Opposed is exactly what you would expect from people who are first and foremost looking out for their own interests.

So really, the important question is whether there is a reasonable argument to be made that a Trad-Only season would actually produce a result that is geared toward the greater good of all concerned, or at least if it could be better for SOME stakeholders and close enough to neutral for the rest… and of course in our egalitarian system, you’d have to do it without giving any special privileges to anyone without requiring them to offer up something in exchange.

And I’m not sure what that would look like.

In a state which is already maxing out their efforts towards herd reduction, it’s a non-starter. Every day that modern archers are kept out of the woods is seen as a day when far fewer deer will die, so unless you have a fundamental and well-reasoned disagreement with the management objectives, there is no way to give more to the tradshooters that doesn’t work against the greater interests of All, which is a herd which is in balance with the landscape. And sadly enough, that also inclines the deer managers towards permitting ever-higher levels of technology and calling it “archery” equipment.

It’s a much easier sell in areas where the objective is a net increase or net neutral impact on the herd size, because the managers can offer solitude IN EXCHANGE for technology, though it’s probably easiest in that case to simply force a choice between Archery OR Firearms; that weeds out the opportunists right quick, at which point the hunter density probably drops to where the perceived “need” for a trad-only season disappears on its own.

The trick with a trad-only archery season, though, is that you’d have to set it up in such a way that it provides a high- quality experience for the Trad bunch without it becoming an irresistible temptation for those who are just opportunistic enough to talk themselves into hunting with equipment which they are only minimally capable of using. That means an either-or vs. modern gear (or firearms, or both) and season dates which don’t seem particularly advantageous compared to “regular” archery.

Trouble is, the Modern crowd have such a hold on the season as it is, and I really doubt that they’d be willing to give so much as an inch, if it’s coming off of their end of the stick…

NO

No

Kind of interesting to listen to some of these arguments and recall how old Fred Bear promoted archery as the "second season" drawing in all kinds of guys with no or minimal skills into bow hunting too.

NO

No...

Dewayne Martin

No. As much as some people on this site profess to love trad, they will not hunt with it due to lack of confidence. bvd

If a "Heritage" season with traditional bows and muzzleloaders were listed on the Game Laws I'm sure it would arouse curiosity in some people to the point that they might like to hang up their compound, crossbow or inline ML'er and try hunting the way our forefathers did.

No.

Juspassin,

Pointing out hypocrisy makes some people uncomfortable. Fred Bear was not only the best salesman in the sport, he was the best promoter.

Just think if they did a non-scientific, biased worded poll when the first archery seasons were created?

Then ask if Fred Bear would be in favor of a trial 2 day (2 day mind you) additional season promoting "traditional weapons" to a generation curious about them, but mostly ignorant about them? Do you think he's be open to trying it for 5 years? If it doesn't bear fruit, then let the Heritage Hunt fade away and no harm is done.

If we followed some of the risk averse thinking, we'd have never gotten any archery seasons. I say enough of playing defense and continually losing ground. How about some positive actions and positive promoting?

With the "sorry son, you're not good enough to try a trad bow" attitude from some, it's no wonder many see traditional hunters as elite snobs.

As stated, I think the truth is more that some guys are not only content keeping traditional archery and ML hunting a small fraternity, I think they want it no other way.

Yes, A fawn only in june for all you guys that just have to have your own season. Good luck and enjoy.

It does tell me something. Considering how it was an unscientific internet poll asking a question not related to what we were talking about, I'm surprised it even got 25% approval. That number is actually encouraging.

no because then I couldn't hunt with my friends who shoot compounds,, simple as that..

seriously who really cares what type of bow sent the arrow flying thru the air? I think everyone here agrees its a bad idea because us and them as much as people hate the idea have a bit of strength in numbers,,,,,, traditional by itself against the compound shooters we are way out numbered,,, I have good friends who shoot compounds and I have another good friend who shoots a crossbow---> I like them all we will always be friends and we will always share the woods and share each others stands.

I think at some point someone who must always feel "out bowed" by the guys with the compounds thinks by not allowing compounds in the woods it will make his hunt with his stickbow so much easier,, had to laugh about it for a second or two..

^^^

:D

NO !!!!!!!!

No.

Some people just can't let it go. So if a poll says there should be NO trad bows during deer season, we would support a ban right?

Tajue17, You can hunt with your friends the same as you do now. The special season would be at a time when it doesn't interfere with any other season...and you wouldn't have to participate if you didn't want to.

The season isn't about you or I Ted, it's about persevering and promoting a way of hunting.

No..no..no.

NO! Only Salt & Pepper for season...

They have fly fishing only stretches on some rivers. Why not have some land set aside for stick bow hunting only. Maybe that would work better instead of a separate season.

Nope

How about a crossbow only season or area. I'm thinkin that would appeal to some of the posters here... HA!

Your acting like a spoiled kid that hasn't gotten his way Ron.

I have to agree with the fly fishing analogy. Some area's could hold potential and would be something special for some folks. Why not?. What would be the harm in that?.

Not even close. You can't catch and release deer. All the fly only waters I fish are catch and release.

Take the June fawns only season if you guys need help killing something. The young and dumb are just your speed and after all, they are the less likely to survive anyway.

NO

No because of exclusion-ism. I've been on the wrong side of the this or that "only" enough times that I feel like it promotes the "you can't be on our team" mentality.

No, I don't need or want a traditional only season!

Rather than a traditional archery season, I'd welcome a "Heritage Season" or area open to recurves, longbows, and old-style muzzleloaders. Anything to have the opportunity to spend more time in the woods.

How is a trad only deer season different from a muzzle loader only season?

Jawge

If they admitted that George they'd have no argument. 8>)

No

OK Ron if its not about me and you then a Hertiage season can be nothing but a spear only season, hunting started way before traditional bows even got a 2nd thought it started with spears, clubs and dropping big rocks out of trees,, maybe the occasional run down and pounce.

but the term "Our Heritage" used by a stickbow shooter can only mean Selfbows with wood arrows, you must agree laminated stickbows with carbon arrows would all be banned from the Heritage season because they are not part of this history,, I know I'd have 90% of the woods to myself that season because sadly my laminated longbow and recurve shooting friends would all have to stay home with the guy who shoots the old round wheel compound with no sights and autumn orange shafts, or they can try their luck with a selfbow but please be ethical bad shots will result in Bad press for Traditional Archery.

No. And I don't think you could define a traditional season. And if you did it wouldn't last. Look what has happened to the "primitive" flint lock seasons.

Back to the traditional season, wood only? no elevated rests? no modern climbing treestands? etc.

I don't understand all the negative replies concerning a traditional only season.

Our regular bow season in VA opens the first Saturday in October. If you want to hunt with a compound or stickbow, you purchase the license for that type of weapon. If you want to hunt with a crossbow, then you have to purchase a crossbow license. If you want to hunt with both, then you have to have both licenses. It puts more revenue in the pockets of the game commission.

What harm would it be in establishing a traditional only archery season starting the first Saturday in September? The extra license fees would make the game commission happy and the impact on the deer population would be minimal.

No. Speck

I have to say no. Set the bag limits to manage the herd and let people use the weapon of their choice.

NO.

No.

No

KPC,

Agreed. This and other threads like it show we are not immune to bickering.

In fact, I think we actually enjoy it much like a dysfunctional family forced to eat Thanksgiving dinner together where most of their time is spent staring at a TV football game too mad at each other to enjoy family time.

Ron, here comes one of my few rants. This would rarely happen in my classroom but when it did you could hear a pin drop.

There are only a few of us left who survived the osage vs white wood wars. The major leaguers left except for you.

I hung around because I wanted to promote primitive archery as much as I could as a hobbyist, an amateur. I get no money from these activities except for the few articles I write. I do it for the pure joy of it.

I've spent years, since I was 8 years old, learning skills, honing my craft. It took me 3 years and 15 breaks 25 years ago to learn to make self-bows and truly primitive arrows and I am not talking about arrow assembly but arrows from nature.

I've had people here at my house teaching them bow making at no charge. Some continued with it. That's good. All I ask is that they share what they know.

The thread "Wild Rose Hunting Arrow" is mine. A few people may try it. Most won't. If one does it was worth it.

I've freely shared what I learned through trial and error both on this forum and a few others.

Now, I hear the term "elitist" and other ridiculous terms purporting to describe practitioners of the primitive arts. Talk about being divisive!

The Army Rangers and Green Berets are elite and even they did not wake up that way. They worked hard at becoming the best at what they do.

Making a simple bow and arrow is not elitist.

Ron, a heritage season is a great idea, at least that's the way I see it,one of the few, but I'm afraid it will never work because, as a group, we are afraid to try something new. It could be at the end of the season so the whiners won't complain.

Too bad because here's a chance to promote muzzle loading and traditional archery especially if combined with youth day(s). I don't care when though. Beginning, middle, end. Who cares!

Come on, y'all, you know what traditional archery is. Don't short circuit a good idea by pretending not to know.

You do trad archery! YOU must know what it is!

OK. Done. Thanks for listening.

Gotta "shoot in" a wild rose blunt I just made.

Jawge

Well, all I gotta say is,,,,,,,,,,,,Perhaps long before many of you got into bowhunting or were born, there used to be a huge, national gathering in southwest MI affectionately called "The Anderson Show". Why Tom Nelson of the bowhunting show, American Archer got his start working at the shop .Bowhunters from around the country and world were there with displays, meeting people and so on. It truly was a bowhunter's mecca. Now, I remember seeing this guy, with crazy wild hair, furs all around the middle of his booth, and old bows of yesteryear, parked smack dab in the middle of the Modern folks. He would talk to them as he was knapping heads or working on a knife, I can't remember exactly. Point is, Ron LaClair is not, by his actions a decisive person to bowhunting. However, I would call him a Promoter right to his face. He has promoted the stick bows and methods forever. Ron has been on Michigan outdoors doing the same. If you don't know, Michigan Outdoors is part of being a Michigander. Just because he is trying to promote his lifestyle does not make him bad. He is not promoting anything that would take away from one single person, only addition to.

meant to say decisive

Yes would be great. Imagine all the extra longbows and recurves that would be bought. I know guys that hunt compound that would buy one just to hunt.

"I know guys that hunt compound that would buy one just to hunt."

And that, friends, is the Worst Possible Consequence; those whose only interest in trad archery is purely mercenary.

I suppose it was lengthy enough that a lot of folks either skimmed or skipped my earlier post here, but the only way to make it work would be to make it less appealing to a guy with a modern bow than what he is currently enjoying. Otherwise, those who are not quite motivated enough to participate will complain of an excessive wounding rate, at which point the focus will shift from the users to the weapons, and we might lose the right to use trad gear AT ALL. Don't believe me? Ask a trapper or houndsman or anyone who can no longer hunt bears over bait.

The over-arching problem is that Antis don't like ANY of us, and every ADDITIONAL season is taking something away from the gun-only hunters, who have the rest of us vastly outnumbered in the grand scheme of things. Set up the rules so that the Trad-Only season participants are GIVING UP something MEANINGFUL and doing so IN EXCHANGE for the privilege of their "own" season, and you might have a chance....

Personally, I would be happy with just a Fingers season and a Trigger season.......

What a crock of shirt.

If they had a trad only season and the compounds bought some trad bows, they would figure out how hard it is and sell them on the leatherwall. Meaning we would get some great deals. LOL

Well said, George. I don't think a primitive/traditional archery season the last 2 weeks of September would "drive any wedges" between different bow hunting groups.

I kinda got a chuckle out of the last post I guess, because it occured to me that someone is always fearing either the Anti-hunters or the Other Hunters. Wow... Thats pretty rough!.

Back in my home state of Maine, the anti organizations have gotten a lot smarter. They dont attack the individual anymore, they attack the state. They lobby to close seasons intelligently, by understanding the state constitution and basing their case on instances where current laws contradict that constitution or where seasons do not have scientific data to allow the hunting of a regulated species. Seen it with bear and moose.

The point is that those days of PETA running ad campaigns to the voting public are over, least wise they are not focusing on voters anymore, they are focusing on representatives of the voters. Cutting out the middle man so to speak. Dont worry about your actions to awful much, The influence PETA carries is cash and they only have to grease the right man/woman to get what they want. That's why you need to join your state organizations and the NRA.

As to other hunters. No one group has a lobby big enough to grease anyone. Which means...We don't have the ability to threaten any other hunters rights. But one might not realize that, in light of the way some here carry on about this group and that group. In all honesty, Nobody needs a majority to get an idea approved for trial. All one needs, is to prove out that there is no ill effect to the species, environment or the public trust and a good mouth piece to present it to the governing body who will introduce the bill.

All this arguing is based on nothing more than greed. The funniest thing is that even when someone suggests that there be a special season where no season currently exists, the greedy sons-a-guns can even call that a fare compromise. That right there is funny!. Selfish little brats and one way or the other, many many (all) of us fit that description.

I have no idea why hunters are so damn greedy...I just never will get that. That runs the spectrum too. If we were not greedy, there wouldn't be any special seasons at all, just one season. So... it is what it is and I am right there with you all, just not as greedy as some.

No.

So Marshal, where do you stand? A special season or no season?

I don't think a trad-only season is a good idea, and here's why.

Here in Oklahoma we have a special hunt at the Macalester Army Ammo Depot. This special hunt is with traditionall archery equipment only, so many of the folks who qualify for that hunt are folks whom have never shot a trad bow before in their life. I've spoken with so many of them who go out and buy a bow just before the hunt, fling a few arrows and then think they're good to go. A friend of ours knows the owner of a own shop located near Macalester and he told us that he sells out of longbows and recurves before the hunt and then buys them all back afterwards, only to sell them all over again the next season.

I'm afraid if we had a trad only special season, the same would happen.

-Cheryl

REALLY? I always have a traditional only season.

Oklahoma we have a special hunt at the Macalester Army Ammo Depot.

The problem you describe wouldn't exist with a good proficiency test ;) A GOOD ONE.

With a good proficiency test, they wouldn't have any hunters! :)

I studied for a drug test for 2 weeks and still failed it.......

Sounds like the bow shop owner is just as much to blame, as the "hunters".

MO already has 347 different seasons for deer. they got youth seasons, bow seasons, gun seasons, alternative methods seasons, doe only seasons, and ive probably forgot a few. just cuts into my trappin:) so no for me.

You can't blame the bow shop owner, and I disagree with a proficiency test. Like stated above, if a person proves proficient at 15 yarsa. what is to keep him from shooting at 30 or 40? I say no to a Traditional only season. If a person wants to hunt with a traditional bow, they can do that during the archery season. We do have a long archery season in Oklahoma!

It's been brought to my attention via a private message that my last statement may have been misleading. My response was in reference to my previous post stating that many non-traditionalists will pick up a stickbow just so they can hunt during a trad-only season. We have many friends and neighbors who draw out for the Macalester hunt each year who come to us for advice on shooting a stickbow. Sadly, they go out and buy a bow just a few weeks before their hunt, shoot it a few times, and then go hunt with it. Obviously, these folks certainly wouldn't pass a proficiency test!

So anyways, that in a nutshell is why I personally wouldn't be in favor of a trad only season. Thanks for pointing out my lack of ability to communicate effectively to the person who sent me the pm. Hopefully, my comments are now made clear as mud!

-Cheryl. Napper

It would never "get off the ground" here in Pennsylvania. Many firearms hunters are already disgruntled with the length of archery season and the inclusion of crossbows.

We need to all be Hunters and not factions or we might just lose the right to hunt. Because as most know, we are not free anymore. When people have to live their lives by laws, rules, and regulations that eliminates freedom.

No.

Its amazing how many guys that use stick bows, say NO, to a season for them. Makes one wonder, do you really hunt with a stick? If you do, do you have confidence to get the job done when a spotlight is shined your way? Confusing. If you do not use stick bows when it is time to hunt, thats just fine. But man, you would think that if a special season, that hurt no one, come around, you would be all for it. I think many more hunt with compounds when the hunter's stew is all boiled down, than are admitting,which is just fine with me. Jus saying

It doesn't amaze me in the least that the majority of folks responding here can see beyond their own personal self interests. There are already enough selfish people in the world that don't care about anything but themselves. We don't need more.

My guess is, not as many traditional hunters are in occupations where they understand promotions to increase visibility, awareness, change behavior or to increase usage.

Companies run "special editions", lunch specials, happy hours, 1/2 off sales, off season rates and on and on to change the behavior of the consumer.

A Heritage Hunt isn't to preach to the choir, it's to do exactly what Fred Bear did and promote traditional "style" hunting to people who were not doing so, but had interest in the concept and only needed a little nudge. A 2 day hunt, increasing opportunity and visibility for the sport is that nudge.

Look at what Anheuser-Busch is doing to increase visibility and to get hunters to act in a way they otherwise wouldn't. Anheuser-Busch is launching a new campaign to get more beer drinkers to buy their products with a "special edition".

http://enjoy.ohio.com/busch-launches-special-promotion-for-hunting-season-1.521017

Busch is going all Charlie and the Chocolate Factory in a new promotion for hunting season. (The brand is big with hunters, if you didn’t know.)

Anheuser-Busch regularly releases limited edition packaging for the season. The green and orange packages are hitting stores now.

But in a twist this year, the brewery also produced 60,000 special “Trophy Cans” that are being randomly inserted into 18-, 24- and 30-packs. If you find one of those golden cans, you could win prizes, including the grand prize of an all-expenses-paid hunting trip to Deer Creek Lodge in Sebree, Ky.

After finding a Trophy Can, consumers are supposed to take a photo with the can, upload it through the Busch Facebook page or www.Busch.com. Each week, the two most creative photos will win hunting equipment prizes. Those weekly winners will be eligible for the grand prize.

busch1In case you weren’t aware, Busch beer is big in Ohio.

“Ohio is one of our key states for the Busch brand,” said Nate Scudieri, director of value brands at Anheuser-Busch. “Some of our most loyal Busch drinkers are in the state of Ohio.”

So why does Ohio love Busch?

Scudieri listed off several potential reasons. For starters, the state has a proud German heritage and Busch was launched as Busch Bavarian Beer. Other reasons include the fact that Busch is produced at the Anheuser-Busch brewery in Columbus and Ohio is a big state for hunters.

Just get the crossbow out of the regular archery season. It is bringing up the kills. Mix them into the gun seasons.

JRW X 10. Well said.

RIght, selfish people. Even though the season would be at the end of the season, and take away from no one. All the other seasons would remain the same. Why some people are against this is odd. So guys like Laclair only care about themselves? Wow, be careful about that big tent some of you love so much, the top is sagging.

All the youth hunts and all the other special seasons we have are all about promoting the public resource. Muzzleloader season is a prime example. I can't for the life of me understand why some can't see that. DNR's don't manage wildlife as much as the manage the users, which are people. Biologists are well known for the saying-"managing deer is easy, managing deer hunters is hard".

KPC, as a private landowner I am forbid from hunting in Jan in Mi for deer. Are you saying that a Trad only hunt is fine on Private lands? Your hangup is that it is public land?

Now, if you want to fence them in, and pay the state for them, you can do the left, hand thong wearing trad hunt all year long if you wish.KPC

Ok, so were gonna go smart&#. Ok got ya.

Well KPC, careful what you wish for. I just might show up on your track that you "hunt" in that thong. Im sure the game would prefer, I rather than you to dress in such a manner. Anyways, its funny that the guys who don't want that special season, call us, who are for more open legislation, selfish. Those are liberal tactics. Call the opposition what you actually are. Too funny. Don't be surprised that someday, in MI a special season does not happen, if Laclair wants it and puts his mind to it. Good shooting.

Yes, let the rest fight the crowd.

John, I don't know why you are so worked up over this. If you want to hunt with trad equipment you can do that during your bowhunting season. In my state of Oklahoma we are allowed to bowhunt all during the deer season, including the muzzleloader and rifle season. Only we have to follow the regs during those seasons and wear orange. If you want to promote Traditional Archery then maybe you can find people wanting to learn and be a Mentor for them. You can believe what Cheryl said above. If people don't take the time to learn to shoot a Trad bow then it causes a lot of lost wounded animals. And the only way anyone would take time to really learn is to be interested in shooting traditional.

One good thing about the beer promotion is, it will put more drunken hunters in the woods! bvd

For those of you that voted NO.

If there was a traditional only season for a few days, would you hunt it?

For those of you that voted NO.

How many switch to compound/crossbow to hunt with and hang their recurves and longbows up?

To be honest and I PMed Kevin on this. I really could care one way or the other if there was a traditional season. I own and hunt my own land and hunt the way I want.. I just think that from the invention of the bow, hunters hunted primitive/traditional and when the crossbow/compound came on the scene they kind of took over the way people hunt. Just thought it would be kind of nice if those of us that hunt the "old" way that they had a few days of their own in the woods and NOT take away any hunting time from the alternative equipment archers.

Haha.Arrowflinger I am not worked up, just surprised at the conclusions so many have drawn about people who support a season. KPC, invite or not, if I wished , I would cross your land, with or without your blessing. Just being neighborly.

Fact is, you missed the whole point. It affects no one. As far as your question to greedy, it was first posted that trad season supporters were selfish, so ask him.Funny you didn't have that concern when the winds blew that direction.

If it was something that needs to be ingested, I am quite sure you would know it's location, cook times, etc. KPC, thats a joke by the way. Kinda like a big man, who sits on the ground, looking forward while hunting deer, with the wind at his back. Funny.

Same arguments were given when guys were trying to get an archery season. Gun hunters told em they could hunt with whatever they wanted in hunting season. They were called separatists, trouble makers, and mostly selfish for wanting their own season. It was only given because they proved archery was purely recreational and had no bearing on the deer herd.

Well now it does have an effect on the herd with close to 90k of our 190k kills being archery. This is two years in a row ohios limit has been dropped and shooting does made more expensive. Our gun hunters have 6 days, ml has 4 days, archery 4 months. Which season do you think will be the one shortened once they got the limit as low as they want it? I just wanna be assured that once season is shortened that stickbow shooters who account for a very small number of kills and have no effect on deer numbers keep their long season.

In one of Ron Laclair's posts, he stated a special season was tried for a few years ago, but was shot down by 'traditional' archers. Why was that? bvd

Buster, that is exactly what I was getting at? Why? Are many "traditional" hunters, really using their compounds during bow season? Don't care if they are, just is strange. Then I was called selfish, because I believed a season for us, at the end of all hunting in Jan, which affects NO ONE, was ok. Strange.

"In one of Ron LaClair's posts, he stated a special season was tried for a few years ago, but was shot down by 'traditional' archers. Why was that? bvd"

For the same reason so many are against it now Buster, lack of understanding of the reasoning behind it. Not believing it would make traditional hunting more popular and believing that "THEY" don't need it. The sad truth is for some people, personal reasons come first before the good of others.

Example,...Some years ago the Great Lakes Longbow Invitational was held on the west side of the state. It was extremely popular drawing HUGE crowds from across the Nation and other Country's. Some of the Board members in charge of the event wanted to move it to the east side of the state closer to where they lived so "THEY" wouldn't have to drive so far to attend. Selfish or just human nature....(shrug)

If you had a special season for 'trad' weapons only in Jan., you would have to buy another tag just for that. I sincerely doubt that archers would save their regular season tags just so they could hunt the 'special season'. With an extra tag staring them in the face, it just might convince more people to try it.

Never thought of that Buster. Good point, as this would be antler less as Ron said. In MI that would probably make the DNR happy. More license sales, less doe.

KPC, Too cold? hahahaa. Thats when we turn it up real good. The woods are pretty empty then, because guys like yourself Kevin, don't like that kind of weather to hunt in. Last winter was excellent. The temps were pretty cold with a ton of snow. That left us alone pretty much with no pressure from neighboring tracts. And thats my point, 90 percent of you guys aren't out there anyways, so whats it going to hurt, if your watching tv, why would you care?

I never insulted you. I only mentioned one of your hunting methods. Geez.

Having an extra tag for a 'special trad only' season in Sept. would also have to apply. You might draw more people in if they knew taking a deer at this time would be in addition to their regular season limit.

As KPC points out, people might be burned out with hunting by Jan., or a severe snow storm/cold snap would keep people from participating anyway.

No, he doesn't insult. "And thats my point, 90 percent of you guys aren't out there anyways, so whats it going to hurt, if your watching tv, why would you care?" I think that is getting close to it though. You make snide comments about how we hunt and you really don't have a clue. You don't know Kevin personally, and have never hunted with him...or me, yet you make a statement like that. Pretty telling.

Stout, I know people who have hunted with him. Besides, he started with the sarcasm, and he just didn't like me standing up to him. Go back and read all of his dialogue and you will see where he started. Now you should sit down as well. I didn't make a single comment toward you. Did I say George Stout hunts like this? No, actually other people asked the same question as I in regards to why some are so against the late trad hunt. Did you jump up then ? No, you did not. So have a seat.

"It's too cold that time of year and usually I'm just burned out." KPC, sounds like he is not hunting that time of year George, or can't you read that well?? Too funny

So who are the 90%, before I sit down. I said "no" to a separate season so I assumed you put me in that 90% since you think everyone who doesn't agree with you must be somehow a traitor or some such. By the way, I'll sit down when I'm damn good and ready.

Simmer down George, I certainly would not think you, being you have hunted for quite a long time before me, with a stick, would be against a special season because you use a compound. LOL, on the sitting down George. AHAH, I m sorry if that was strong , but some of you old bast&#$s are funny. I don't think disagreeing with me, makes me a traitor.Actually that is how things are learned. I was only responding to people who first called Laclair things he was not, and then me. Go look at all the threads George, I did not start with the name calling or insinuations. Anyways, you have my respect George, just thought you came at me a bit hard, and in Motown we are not allowed to not respond heftily. ahhaha. Sorry if your upset.

Sorry, meant to say, disagreeing with me, makes you a traitor.

John you can't kill deer in the three month Michigan archery season? You need a handicap season? Dump a pile of bait for the hungry deer and kill a scab head? January 1st and the deer is still standing, they win, leave them be to fight the next fight. Hunger and coyotes ain't fun I'm sure. Damn I hate agreeing with George and Kevin.

Again, the concept we're talking about isn't for us, the existing traditional shooters. We're already using traditional bows in the "regular" archery season.

The goal of the concept Ron and I are talking about is to attract compound shooters and inline ML shooters who may like to try trad bows or side locks, but won't without the incentive of increased opportunity to use them in a special season. It's exactly why ML's became popular. Without a ML season, very, very few hunters would hunt with a cap and ball during regular firearms season. The inline would have never been commercially viable with a unique season for the weapon.

While a late season concept may work, an early season in September, simultaneously while other special deer hunts are occurring, would promote interest from compound and inline shooters. It may especially increase interest if a weekend hunt allowed bucks too, not just antlerless deer.

Now, I know some people get touchy when they think someone may shoot a buck before they do in a given year, but the amount of bucks killed by traditional hunters and side lock ML hunters over a 2 day weekend in September would amount to less bucks than were hit by cars that weekend. There would be no negative impact on the public resource.

Sorry Killin, your missing the whole point. Go back and read. Comprehend. Read what Mojostick just wrote. Realize your telling what you told me to do, to all who support a special late trad season.

As to an early season in September...maybe, maybe not. I'm usually still doing summer things at that time, but now that I'm an "empty nester" you never know. KPC

Now it appears, that as long as it would be during a time Kevin would have time to hunt, well, "you never know".

Funny that guys who support this kind of Jan hunt, are labeled as selfish. It appears that KPC is basing his acceptance, on a statewide season, that could introduce new hunters to the trad world, on what his personal schedule is. Where should the selfish label be affixed now?

Laclair's idea was to have a season to promote trad bow hunting. Again, for the tenth time, it was not for us seasoned guys, it was not going to affect one hour of the regular season. In fact, it was proposed in Jan at the end of season. Why are some of you so enraged over this? Why the insecurity of others hunting with the sticks, while you choose not to?

No!

I guess it's just real hard to comprehend a stupid idea John. Almost as stupid as replying to this thread because this stupid idea of a "trad" season won't ever happen. A guy has 3 months to bow hunt with a stick bow in Michigan and screw them if they fail to take part in that opportunity. This isn't little kid soccer where all the kids get to play no matte if they want to or not or if they suck or not. If you guys want a "trad" season then no bait, no tree stands, no pop ups, no food plots, just ground pounding and have at it. My hats off to the guys that make a kill the "traditional" way.

No, I don't see what advantage compounds have where I am a ground hunter.I can shoot quicker, quieter, and don't have cables and gizzies catching on every branch or twig. Simple is better. Don't let it get around.

And your intelligence is noticed kiliin. Nice attitude:) Your a true gem.

Typical minority reply.

And as Feathers pointed out, they're out hunting. A lot of them may not even have computers.

No traditional only season is needed here in Missouri in my opinion. There are getting to be more and more whitetails and turkeys and fewer and fewer hunters.

Not a good idea. Imagine trying to convince the wheelie and gun guys that the state fish and game is going to take away a couple of their weeks so just the trad guys can hunt. Where did KPC get the info that it would be generally well received by the huning crowd. not here in Jersey.

Who said anything about taking days others can bow hunt for deer? We're only talking about adding hunting dates that currently are closed to deer hunting or limited to other special seasons. Nobody is suggesting encroaching on existing and established dates.

X2 Mojostick

Elitest,

I am not a "paper puncher", I hunt......

As far as seeing a guy at Denton Hill "in flannel" not shooting missing a couple targets...I never mentioned flannel, you did...and there was more than one guy.....if you would get off your pontificating elitest(remember, that word is in your handle) pedestal and attend a trad shoot or two, you would see the same thing....ask anyone who goes to Denton Hill about the quality of shooting....or, go yourself and see it....'

I have attended countless trad shoots as both a vendor and a participant, and they are all pretty much the same....

Many, and I repeat many cannot hit a 3D target at 15 yards, and I am not talking about missing the vitals, I am talking about completely missing the animal....

As far as I am concerned, every day I hunt is a traditional hunt. Here in PA, that means I am able to bowhunt from mid- September through January....that's 18 weeks that I get to hunt with a bow that gun and muzzleloaders don't get....I can hunt in their season, they can't hunt in mine.....

One last question for you before I actually go out and hunt this weekend...see, my archery season, my "trad" archery season starts Saturday....what is a "bit" tent??????

I would rather spend time hunting than trying to reason with someone who has no clue......

The Leatherwall community covers a wide geographical base. That alone would skew the "results," if you can call the reponses that. I would think that in areas of the country with already generously-long bow seasons there would be less support for a "trad-only" season.

I am in favor of longer archery seasons in the west, if only for people to bave more time in the woods. But the incremental success rate of compound bows over traditional equipment makes game managers reluctant to have longer archery seasons.

Utah offers an extended archery season in three state regions, which are mostly on private lands. These are largely token opportunities, I believe, to deflect any crticism of having a short general archery season in late summer. Brilliant move by the game managers!

The Leatherwall community covers a wide geographical base. That alone would skew the "results," if you can call the reponses that. I would think that in areas of the country with already generously-long bow seasons there would be less support for a "trad-only" season.

I am in favor of longer archery seasons in the west, if only for people to bave more time in the woods. But the incremental success rate of compound bows over traditional equipment makes game managers reluctant to have longer archery seasons.

Utah offers an extended archery season in three state regions, which are mostly on private lands. These are largely token opportunities, I believe, to deflect any crticism of having a short general archery season in late summer. Brilliant move by the game managers!

The point many people are missing about a purposed "Heritage Hunt", which would be traditional bows and traditional side lock muzzleloaders is not that we (traditionalist) need more time to hunt but rather to highlight old time hunting.

I wouldn't want it to be at a time when it would take away from any other hunts. It could be state wide, on private land, in specific areas, a week hunt or a two day hunt, whatever, it doesn't matter as long as it brings traditional hunting to the forefront with the possibility of increasing interest in hunting with traditional weapons.

Ron,

People don't misunderstand your point, they just disagree with you. There's a difference.

I'm talking to the people that are saying

"I can hunt X amount time with my traditional bow, I don't need a special season".... Emphasis on "I"

Some people don't give a rip about promoting a traditional way of hunting, If that's how they feel so be it. As for me I've promoted traditional hunting my whole life and have been fairly successful at it. I guess a man can't change his nature can he? :):)

No

Elitist Bowhunter you ain't so "elite" if you can't deal with the other guys in the field. This isn't a team sport. You're not going up against anyone but an animal. What does it matter to any of you guys that there might be someone else in the woods? How does it affect you? Become an Elite hunter first and then you'll be able deal with your fears.

I think that a lot of these people that are doing all the terrible shooting at Denton and so on, are most likely newbies trying it out. Not Elite bowhunters like ourselves. Chuckle.

"For those of you that voted NO. If there was a traditional only season for a few days, would you hunt it?"

***It depends on when, the weather, my time, and if I still need a deer. I wouldn't go out of my way for it, I already have 3 1/2 months to hunt in what for me is a "Traditional Only" archery season.***

"For those of you that voted NO.

How many switch to compound/crossbow to hunt with and hang their recurves and longbows up?"

***I don't own a compound or a crossbow. I bowhunt with a recurve 100%, my choice.***

I think that what would go far further to promote traditional archery would be traditional only 3-D shoots, because a lot of shooters who shoot stickbows and compounds will try their hand with the stickbows at a 3-D shoot before they will try it on live game. I actually respect them for this as hunting with a stickbow does require a certain amount of dedication and practice to become proficient enough to hunt with. I can't tell you the number of times I've been at 3-D shoots and had other archers tell me that they have a recurve and will somtimes shoot it but they just don't have the confidence to hunt with it.

I also think that based on past experience that I've had, if you want to promote traditional archery then go to 3-D shoots and shoot with compound shooters if you can. Many of them (the younger ones), have never seen a real traditional shooter and if you can hold your own with them they are impressed. I have a number of them tell me that after shooting with me that they were either going to start shooting the old recurve their uncle gave them or that they'd been thinking about getting a recurve and now they really want one. This doesn't surprise me because as we ALL know...IT'S FUN!!!

NO!

BUT...I don't like how archery has been taken over by compounds and crossbows and now called "archery".

Just using definitions and common sense...

Archery is the shooting of a bow and arrow.

A Bow-A weapon consisting of a curved, flexible strip of material, especially wood, strung taut from end to end and used to launch arrows.

Arrow-A missile having a straight thin shaft with a pointed head at one end and often flight-stabilizing vanes at the other, meant to be shot from a bow.

A compound or a crossbow is not archery. That's not me saying that...That is common sense, the dictionary, the way it is and has been for 1000 years...

When someone wants me to teach them archery then that is what I teach them. I don't give them a crossbow or a compound I give them a bow and arrow.

If someone wants to learn to shoot a compound then I will teach them how with a compound. Nothing wrong or bad about shooting any weapon of choice BUT 1 is archery and the other is something else. I wish everyone would be up front and honest about it and call things what they are. If you want to be an archer then you will need a bow and arrow.

That's my gripe.

Ron I commend you for your life long promoting of traditional bowhunting....however, the fact that you run a business that is traditional archery only related items such as bows, etc...it would seem that promoting traditional archery also allows you to have a larger customer base, therefore improving your bottom line....good for you....not saying your intentions are self-serving, but....

Bitten, I would like to agree that all the poor shooters at Denton Hill are newbies...but I tend to see the same people doing the same thing every year....there can't be that many newbies out of the 6,000 shooters every year....especially when their quiver is loaded with shooting buttons from many previous years at Denton and other trad shoots.....

Woods...I hunt only with my recurve and longbow....I don't need to hang it up for a compound or crossbow....the archery regs in my state include recurve, longbow, compound, and crossbow...they call it archery season....With my stickbow, I am not excluded from hunting with it in any deer or turkey season....

With my bow I can hunt for deer 18 weeks, plus four more in the spring for turkey....Gun hunters get two weeks, same for muzzleloader....think I have a great deal....

Dogsoldier, while I appreciate your opinion regarding cross bows and compounds not being archery...my state regs say they are...

Crossbows have been around throughout history....longer than compounds....I don't like them, except for those disabled who cannot shoot a compound or stickbow...but that can of worms has been opened....

If compounds are not bows....then all the NASP's that are teaching millions of kids archery, introducing them to the sport, is a waste, because they use Mathews Genesis bows? Mathews stepped up and provided those bows, and helps support the program...I didn't see Bear, Martin, Black Widow, etc do anything to foster interest...at least on the scale that exists now....

No.

I don't have any issues with compounds or crossbows or anyone that shoots them. Shoot what you like. I like archery myself=the shooting of a bow and arrow.

What WOULD you call the shooting of a compound or crossbow and arrows?

Alternative arrow shooting?

I can understand both arguments. I certainly understand the point about promoting traditional archery.

But sadly i also understand the point that was made about guys just picking up a bow without much practice and going hunting just so they could hunt.

I really don't care one way or another. My dilemma is a bit different.

I start hunting, early Sept in MD, by the time PA bow season arrives in Oct..i'm full swing into hunting deer, now in two states. By mid Oct, you can also hunt small game, so now i'm hunting deer in two states, hunting small game,and trying to get some scouting in for upcoming bear. By the end of oct, fall turkey is coming in the rut is starting..So now i'm Big into deer hunting in two states,seesh, i'd sure like to head to WV or OH yet, i'm hunting deer, small game, turkey, wow that's right trapping season is starting. Holy cow the brookies are really putting on a feed. By mid Nov its Bear season, then the end of the month, its firearms deer in PA and MD..hunt MD with a bow the Sat before our opener on Mon...OH my GOSH!! I HAVENT DONE ANY CHRISTMAS SHOPPING YET!!

Did i mention i have a job?

By the end of the late season in JAN iv'e lost 25 lbs i eat like a hog, My leather boots are always wet, there are always hunting clothes hanging somewhere. My truck hasn't been washed in 5 months and has the faint odor of red fox piss, the skinning Gambrel hangs from our birch tree since Sept, the wood pile needs tending two and my poor wife wonders who this strange bearded man is that she sees occasionally.

lol and you guys want to give me another season yet!!...hope my wife don't find out.

carry on men.

Steve, haha, been there done that, power to you buddy. Obviously you don't need another season and I've said many times, that's not the reason for having it.

Wade, I was around in the 40's and we got a bow season in spite of me :>)

KCP, Like I said before, you're being a bit too pessimistic IMO

Traditional only season? Yes please.

I'd go for a "primitive weapons" season that included longbows, recurves and muzzleloaders with open ignition systems and iron sights.

Well imo on primitive seasons....If I decide to use a spear or primitive archery I'm just gonna do it. IMO I don't require a license=permission to primitive hunt with rocks and spears,primitive archery.

Some things people need to stop asking the government for permission=license for. Why would you even ask or try to start a primitive season? That's just another thing your volunteering to pay for and expect everyone else o pay for whether they want to or not.

I always wonder when and why did people start asking for permission=license to get married? Something as personal as that is no ones business but you,your wife and God. Why would you even ask for permission?

Primitive hunting with sticks and stones,spears isn't going to hurt the animal population very much...No one would even notice....Just do it and quit running to government to ask permission,creating a season that now EVERYONE will be forced to pay for to do that they could do before for free.

Forty years ago, when the compound boom was getting under way, there was no incentive for us to keep our stick bows. Some of us kept them but, the majority didn't. Today there is no incentive for people to go back to traditional weapons. There are too many that have 'trad' bows that just don't have the confidence to hunt with them.You can lead a horse to water but, you can't make him drink. bvd

"My question to you was do you understand why others don't feel such a season is a good idea?"

The reasons they're stating are not the same as what you're saying.

"At the end of the day, whether you agree with them or not, or even if they are correct or not, they are the ones standing between you and a special season."

They're not the ones that will decide if it's a good idea or not. That job is up to the DNR/NRC

No--

A two week season of traditional archery only, prior to the regular archery season would do what? I don't get you guys at all. I've read it all and I still don't get it.

If there was such a season, I'd purchase the license and go hunting. You're saying that you would not?

The first archery seasons of course were structured to recurves and longbows, because that's all there was back in the old days. I say old days with respect as I'm 60 and learned the sport back in the sixties.

Then came the compounds and later the Xbows. The romance and adventure of the old ways, being recurves and longbows, had to contend with the new age weapons in the same season. And, I say new age cause the modern day Xbows and compounds are far advanced of the originals.

There was a certain "feeling" back in the sixties and early seventies when hunting with archery tackle that connected the hunter with a time long gone. The modern day compound and xbows take away from that feeling. At least this is how I see it.

A couple week season allowing recurves and longbows only would provide that same old time connection. Anyone who is jealous can purchase the proper equipment and apply it, just like in the old days. What's the matter with that? That's what "archery" season was suppose to be.

Some hunters don't care for the xbows being allowed in regular archery seasons. It happened and we had to get along with it. What's the difference if we allow a trad only season. Let the others join us, or get along with it!

No, I don't see any good benefit coming from it.

Man. I get so sick of this traditional elitism. It makes me sick because most don't have any reason to consider themselves elite. Now some want their own season. Give me a break!!

Let me give you my impression from someone whose hunting bow for the last 30 years just happens to be a recurve. First of all, most "traditional" hunters are terrible hunters. It's not that they can't shoot, they just don't know how to hunt. Most of the best hunters I know shoot compounds. The only exception is a buddy of mine that has killed at least 20 P&Y bucks in the southeast with his recurve. Don't use shooting a traditional bow as an excuse for your shortcomings. Myself, I'm just a mediocre hunter at best. Only one P&Y to my name. But this unjustified elitism just kills me. I apologize for the rant.

But if KPC seen the season come about in Sep, in his words, who knows? I think Laclair has made an educated argument which clearly out weighs all the emotion being thrown at his idea.

It doesn't matter to me one way or the other. I certainly wouldn't stand in the way of those that would like a special traditional season. I'm totally neutral on the issue.

I will say this though. PA has a special flintlock season during the late season. Guys hunt flintlock, but it's far from a overwhelming turn out. I'm thinking it would probably be about the same with traditional archery. Some would, a lot wouldn't.

In Va., archery season begins the first Saturday in October and Muzzleloading season begins the first Saturday of November. General firearms season begins the third Saturday in November and in most counties east of the Blue Ridge, deer hunting with dogs is allowed. This means ALL bowhunters only have the 4 weeks of bowseason and the 2 weeks of muzzleloading season to hunt relatively unspooked deer. While it is certainly not impossible to hunt deer with a bow during the firearms season, the deer are extemely spooked and ran hard by hounds that can stay 1-2 minutes behind the deer "Hunters'patrol roads and form lines in fields and on backroads with shotguns to intercept fleeing deer. Dogs are equipped with radio and shock collars to break dogs off undesirable deer or track closed mouth dogs. So YES, I would love 2 weeks of late September traditional only hunting in Va.

Shade, I'd like to see traditional archery AND traditional muzzleloader, flintlock and cap lock, share the same Heritage season. I think some wouldn't, a lot would

Kevin, that was no dig. It was just proof, that it really didn't matter to you. In your words if the season was in September you would be more likely to endorse it, as the Jan hunt is too cold. You typed those sentiments. Don't be angry and emotional over your own thoughts. Now your saying that your quote makes no sense. Wow.Too funny

Your a hoot. As to an early season in September...maybe, maybe not. I'm usually still doing summer things at that time, but now that I'm an "empty nester" you never know. KPC

it's too cold that time of year and usually I'm just burned out." KPC

No, the land might be yours, but the resource (the deer) are a public resource. KPC

The upper two quotes are your words. The last quote I think sums up the difference among many of us. Some see the deer as a resource, others see the hunt as the actual resource. Sure, by Natural Law we can hunt whenever we need meat, but most of us are not of that persuasion, so we have to abide by the DNR's rules. This is great. I don't know what the heck you are talking about in regards to the Pres. DIVERSION

My head is swimming with all the points made. I understand what Ron is saying 100% and I see a truck load of posts that misrepresent what he is saying. So much of what has been posted is irreverent to the question when the admission of thought is included, which shows a lack of understanding of what has been asked. Such as... seasons being shortened for some in order to provide a new season. That was never spoken of in the poll or in the thread that brought this poll about. People assume and then respond. People let their imaginations lead them down roads that haven't even been spoken of and dont exist. Just cant take the poll figures seriously because nobody is there to correct all the misinterpretations of the respondents, which in turn, fuel further misinterpretations by newcomers to the poll.

Not only were some of the posts irreverent, a lot of them were irrelevent, too!

We need to try and understand the context of individual's posts. In my mind, I believe Ron is trying to get the message across that bowhunting today is not just and only about compound bows, as many might think (especially as portrayed on tv and hunting magazines.) A special season would help show that there is a segment of bowhunters who are devoted to longbows and recurves as effective weapons.

Many that oppose a special season may be happy to simply be considered a bowhunter, or just a hunter, period. Those in favor may want recognition of the fact that they are placing self-imposed limitations of their equipment on themselves in order to have a different type of hunting experience.

With success rates of compounds and now crossbows now approaching that of rifles, it can hardly be argued that they are any kind of a limitation at all. And that is probably why archery seasons were allowed in the first place.

Quotes and questions...

"With success rates of compounds and now crossbows now approaching that of rifles, it can hardly be argued that they are any kind of a limitation at all. And that is probably why archery seasons were allowed in the first place. "

Yes and no... I think the seasons were authorized because A) there was some demand for it and B)their addition did not conflict with the DNR/DEP/DOW/DFG management objectives. And that was either because they didn't anticipate much of a harvest OR the seasons were timed such that a hunter could choose EITHER gun or bow and have about the same odds of success... on average, anyway... They weren't concerned with HOW that deer were taken, only HOW MANY. And frankly, that's still the driver most of the time.

Nowadays - in many places - the over-arching concern of the deer managers is herd reduction, so taking any hunting days AWAY from people using more efficient weapons is directly at odds with management objectives, so it's a non-starter. In those states, a trad season could be added if all of the related laws permit, but in some places the managers can't legally add any more days...

Feathers - what's wrong with " 40# recurves with stabilizers, multi pin sights, string peeps, mechanical release aids, 60 grain broadheads on ultralight carbon arrows and all kinds of crap. " ???

OK, wait - I'm with you on canning the mechanical releases, but all of that other stuff sounds like an Olympic style target bow, and I have no issue with any of it. If a guy thinks he'll enjoy his hunt more with all of that stuff along, then more power to him.

Anyway... Personally, I LIKE the idea of a trad-only season; I just don't think it can be done without either taking days - often prime-o'-the-rut days - AWAY from the modern archery bunch or even the firearms crowd, and neither of those groups will stand for it.

Either that, or it would have to come so early (or late) that most of us would rather hunt the existing seasons as we do now. No sense throwing a party if nobody'll come.

Geez, some pretty pathetic losers on here baby bitching about something that will never happen. Can't believe it's worth that much effort or time to try and ram words up another guys butt. Wow.

My money is on real hunting and hunters. Laclair will get it done. Another prediction, Ron Laclair will be inducted into the Archery Hall of Fame. So, after all the bs name calling and whining, the real hunter will triumph and this pastime will have its own little season. Good Hunting this season.

"Heritage Season"?

Guys there is no reason for it. We are NOT the "old way" or the "way they used to do it"...

We ARE doing it. We are still here and we will always be here doing it the way it has been done for thousands of years. Were archers!

Those of us that shoot bows and arrows are STILL archers!

Now if others want to use compounds and crossbows that's fine but let them know that what they are doing is NOT archery and it never will be.

I am not "elitist" for being an archer....I am what I am.

A compound shooter or crossbow shooter is what it is...NOT ARCHERY!

Archery IS the shooting of a bow and arrow. That's not my "opinion" or "belief", that is what archery is!

Again...What is the shooting of a crossbow or compound called? What is the word for that?

"Alternative arrow shooters"?

"We ARE doing it. We are still here and we will always be here doing it the way it has been done for thousands of years. Were archers!"

"YOU" are here and "I" am here, but WHO knows it except you and I. A Heritage season would let everyone know we're here and they're welcome to join us.

"A compound shooter or crossbow shooter is what it is...NOT ARCHERY!"

Then how did they get into the archery season?

Money...lol

If anything....

We should call it "archery hunting" season not "heritage"...call it what it is...."The shooting of a bow and arrow" is "archery"

Its up to the compound and crossbow shooters to name their season.

Which is why I asked "What is the shooting of a compound,crossbow and arrow?

It needs a name so we know what to call it.

I know, Elite Bowhunting, hahahaha. That way some of the names that have been hurled at us could be used to draw attention to the season. What guy would not be honored to be considered one of the Elite? Then if he gets a deer, and says he had more fun than shooting his compound bow, he earns the title of ELITIST for his blasphemous statements that will be misconstrued by the masses here, as hating others who chose another path. I crack myself up.

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