I am really enjoying Will Tells thread, "won't get any better". I'm all for having fun with my shooting and eliminating pressure to be successful from all sources.

But, at the same time, want to be a more consistently accurate shot. I don't have access to, never had, coaching.

So, let's share some things that have helped us, and maybe this will help others as well.

I'll start, one thing that has helped me a lot is that I draw, anchor, study my sight picture, get a feel for what my body is doing and let down.

I start with two or three of these each practice session, and actually do it quite a bit during a practice round.

This help me to slow down a little during the shot sequence, I sometime shoot faster than I want to.

I don't compete, just shoot a few 3d's and don't even keep a score card.

I'm interested in hearing about things that have helped you improve.

Here's five: 1) great arrow flight 2) consistent eye and head position 3) steady bow arm during and a split second past release 4) non torque grip 5) study the IBO world champs and their form unless you know of something better...

Somehow we think that just because we have not had any coaching it means we should not pursue that option...the fact is there are quite a few Olympic style shooters and coaches around that could at least watch how we are doing things and give us some guidance...and I will do that when I get a round tuit...in the meantime the single thing I do to shoot better is take one finger out of the equation and only use two, either split or under...this is not rocket science and ought not to be seen as such...the other thing I am doing is focusing on animals with bigger kill zones like elk and moose

DDave

I 2nd what Dave said. I would also add 3 things to that: a.) consistent anchor point; b.) shoot a bow you can handle, i.e. do not overbow yourself; c) Intense concentration on the spot you want to hit. I see a lot of new trad shooters struggling to achieve full draw/consistent anchor points because they are shooting a bow they cannot pull. Regarding "C" I find I shoot better when I am alone and not distracted. I practice for hunting situations and 99.9% of the time I will be alone when I take a shot at an animal. Good topic, Mr. Toby. I wish you the best this season.

make a video of yourself shooting

have a friend do it or set your camera on a tripod

seeing yourself shoot is very instructive

I've been at this since the mid 60's. I shot OK and took a number of deer. I never got much better until I started shooting with someone better than me.

You can call it a mentor, a coach, a shooting buddy, whatever you want, but it works better than reading any book or watching any video ever will.

Toby -

At the risk of sounding blunt, learn how to shoot. In most cases, that involves an instructor or coach of some sort. That may just be a good shooter who actually understands the Physics behind the shot and can relay it in a way you can understand.

Working with a good book or DVD (I personally don't like DVDs, but I'm showing my age), AND A BUDDY (an extra pair of eyes) can help, but it does take discipline and a commitment.

Just shooting more is rarely the answer.

Viper out.

I am 66 years old, been shooting since I was about 8 or 9. I have shot 3d events for years, won one now and then. I always considered myself an average or slightly above average shooter but never in the top of the class. I use to watch some of the guys shoot and wish I could get that good. But no matter how many arrows I shot, I had peaked and was not improving. I finally broke down and attended Rod Jenkins shooting clinic. That was the best $225 I ever spent on archery. My shooting scores improved about 10-20% and best of all I became more consistent. NOw when I miss, I know what I did incorectly. In the past a miss was only another miss, never knew for sure what I did different to cause the miss. If you want to improve the right way I suggest you take lessons. People can say what they want about proper form etc but having consistent form, or process, as Rod calls it, does help. There are many good instructors out there that can help you improve. I suggest caution when selecting an instructor because some give lessons only because they are well known for reasons other that their shooting skills and accomplishments. Do not be too proud to admit quality lessons will help. Good luck.

make sure your gear is a good match and have fun,it gets easy after a while.

Never stop learning. Never say "Well, I'm just never going to be that good at it." If you want to be better, keep working at it. Pretty much goes for everything huh?

Work at it properly as Viper suggests. A DVD is a good idea, made by a good shooter who understands fundamentals. Being able to repeat form consistently will help you get started.

At any given time in the absence of a knowledgeable, trusted companion to critique your shooting form, video recording yourself from different angles can be useful in revealing some form hitches.

The single most important thing? An open mind.

I can't begin to tell you how many folks I've seen shackle themselves to poor accuracy because they're more concerned about how they look than how they shoot. Be willing to try anything, regardless of whether or not it fits someone's definition of traditional.

"The single most important thing? An open mind."

That's exactly right. Everyone can get better, it starts with a desire to find the answers.

With no coach.

Buy Anthony Camera's book "Shooting the stick bow" for a better over all understanding.

Mr Camera is Viper 1 on this forum and his book is a virtual gold mine.

Down load and print out the IFFA ten steps program.

Film yourself shooting and you'd be surprised at what you can pick up.

Join a club and ask questions of the better shooters, most will be only to happy to help.

Shoot club rounds, keep score and set realistic goals of improvement.

Work on your weaknesses not your strengths.

Work on one step at a time.

Use the internet but keep an open mind for well intentioned but often biased information.

If I was to choose only two things they would be to follow the IFFA 10 steps program and to buy Mr Camera's book.

All the best.

Jack.

The importance of instruction is finding a form that is consistent and repeatable. When you have a shooting form that has been broken into steps it becomes easier to do the same thing every time and when you mess up you can more easily know what you did wrong and correct it or not repeat it. Rod Jenkins is a great teacher, get the masters of the bare bow DVD to get an idea of what he teaches.

Concentration, most people cant concentrate for mo than 2 seconds so your mind changes from your point of aim to form, release, what's for lunch, or your buddy saying watch that tree.when I drive to shoots or other places by highway, I pick out mile markers and stare without blinking and keep my mind on only that mile marker till I get to it then I do it again. It makes me more focused on 3D shots nod on animal shots

I have Viper's book and will look up the IFFA information.

You don't need a coach, shoot the blank bale, this is the best tool ANY archer can use to improve.

The first thing is not to say "Won't get any better."

Good one Clydebow.lol Lets say you do all of the above is there a point in time when your shooting as good as your going to and you won't get any better. It's not giving up or to stop trying but you might be at the top of your game. My point is to be all you can be and don't drive yourself crazy if you can't keep up to some archers who are shooting better than you. The fact maybe they are just better shots.

First thing to do to shoot better for some people is to stop trying to shoot "trad". Forget snap shooting till you get better, then bring it back if you have to.Snap shooting helps to keep you bow weak. holding builds the right muscles.

The first thing you have to do is look at your shooting from an objective point of view.

Most folks know what they are doing wrong, or the area where they need to improve, but it takes being honest with yourself.

8^)

Rick

#1. Was to be Honest enough with myself to admit that while there are many ways to shoot a bow?...that as fun and relaxing as it may be?..."my preferred way"...(aka "The easy way out")...was not the best way to shoot a bow. (as it relates to consistent accuracy)

#2. Was being Open-Minded enough to realize...that if I wanted to change the way I shoot?...the first thing I had to do was change the way I think...

#3. Was to be Willing enough to change the way I shoot...and did....after all...the definition of insanity is doing the same thing time and again while expecting different results...I chose to stop the insanity and change.

#4. Was to invest $11.95 in a "Clickety Clicker"....dollar for dollar it's the best money I've spent in archery so far and in many ways is like having a coach at your side.

#5. Was to learn. experience and then know that you can not achieve consistent disciplined results while investing minimal effort.

Clicker and blind bale shooting. I'll also pick a random shot during practice to draw hold and let down just to keep myself from rhythm shooting.

What helps my shooting a bit is not shooting. Sounds kind of funny but my point is to let down and not shoot every time.

Once I, and I have seen others, feel they must release the arrow every single time they draw the bow. I work on letting down just to have total control and not feel I have to release every time. If your at full draw and something does not feel correct let down and start again. Might even help with TP for some.

You control the bow. Don't let the bow control you.

So much of it is the frame of mind we are in. I am going to say that this game is 99 percent mental, once you get to a certain level. (That is once you have been shooting long enough to have your form down) It takes a lot to transition from the state of mind of being surprised by making a perfect shot to being surprised why one went bad. Does that make sense? Also I have learned over the years how we can be stifled by own own expectations or by what we have learned "from the world" what is possible or not. I remember the first time my daughter Lucy shot a breath mint out of the air which I tossed up for her. Just before she shot she asked me, "are you sure I can do this?" "Yup" I replied, and then she nailed it from about 10 yards. She had only been shooting for about 4 months at the point. It wasn't luck either for she can do it quite easily now. The thing is, she never had any influences around her telling her it couldn't be done. Not limitations. I think that is one of the key components if not the key component to shooting well after one has their basic form going on. Not limiting our selves. Jeff

This is a easy one, Just come to an IBO event and ask any one of us to help you, and we will, for FREE but you need to come and ask. Just Sayin Cal

Find a goal and work toward it step by step...

Some great advice here. Jeffer "No limitations", great point.

dances, any IBO events in Wisconsin?

Funny thing… yesterday Will Tell said he was OK with not getting any better; today I see this: “My point is to be all you can be and don't drive yourself crazy if you can't keep up to some archers who are shooting better than you. The fact maybe they are just better shots.” Amen to the “Be All You Can Be” part. You can keep trying and keep on improving without making yourself crazy or taking all the fun out of it…. But on the subject of “Getting Better”… Toby said: “I don't compete, just shoot a few 3d's and don't even keep a score card.” Dude. Seriously? If you don’t keep score, how the heck are you going to know if you’re ACTUALLY getting any better or not? If you make a change in your shooting form/process and you don’t measure the effect on your accuracy, how the hell do you know whether to keep doing it the new way??? And if you don’t “compete”, how are you ever going to know where you fall on the overall Awfulness to Awesomeness continuum?

Yesterday, Tony (Viper) made the point that far too many people are willing delude themselves into believing that they are merely Mediocre on their way to settling for shooting like Crap. JMO, it’s a lot easier to be content with being a Mediocre-to-Crappy shot if you have the luxury of choosing to believe that you’re really Pretty Good. Start keeping score, and you can lose that fantasy real quick…. For most of us, I'm thinking that would be a good thing...

two things I started doing that really help

Blind bale work - I have a large target and I practice with both eyes closed at a distance of about 8 feet. I am working strictly on form and making the mind to body connection. It is funny how easily we can become aware of our release, alignment, bow arm, follow through, anchor, etc.... when we remove the need to hit a target.

Second thing I have done is I spend more time stump shooting at longer distances. Now that I routinely practice 80+ yard shots while stumping the 15 to 20 are getting pretty easy.

I also have a general fitness program and stay in shape better... to include lifting weights. That helps with building all the support muscles. I also shoot year round... dang near every day I loose a few arrows - I love shooting so that part is easy.

Gents -

Just a quick note. A number of people are recommending blank or blind bale shooting. While that can be a great idea and actually a necessity, you kinda have to know what you're doing before you try it. One of the tenets of blank baling is to be able to work on form by feeling the shot. Well, you kinda have to know what the shot is supposed to feel like. A lot of times what feels "right" may be dead wrong once you're trying to aim at something.

Blank bale shooting has it's place, but as with most things, it's usually best done under a pair of watchful eyes - at least in the beginning.

Viper out.

To add to what Viper said, I think it is also important when practicing to narrow down what it is you are working on during each session. Myself when I have a practice session and I am doing something like blind bale shooting it will be to focus on one single aspect of my shot process or one single part of my form. I think it is a mistake to try and incorporate too many things into one practice session. By focusing on only one I can get it right and improve.

ToBy ya got a car ? A little road trip may be worth your time and effort ! I am also sure you will have some fun doing it! Come to the Trad Worlds you will make some new friends that you can call when working on problems. Good Luck hope to see you there. Cal

I second the Rod Jenkins clinic. I practice the routine he recommended daily and have seen much improvement. I suspect, however, that many just take the class and expect to be better as a result. I have taught paddlesports for many years and I believe that Teachers only teach and students have to do the learning (practice) themselves.

GF, thanks for the advice, but I don't need a score card at 3d events to know how my shooting is coming along, I can measure that in other ways. I competed in athletics as a participant and coach for over 50 years, and don't want that in my archery world.

Dances, yup, got a car, so where are the Trad Worlds? Sounds like fun.

A person that consistently kills game does not mean they are a great shot. And a great shot does not mean that you are a decent bow hunter.

You don't have to be a great target shot to be a very successful bow hunter and you don't have to be a great bow hunter to be a good archer. I have seen great bow hunters that cannot shoot groups for crap - but they get their buck year after year and seldom miss an opportunity when it presents itself. I have also seen great target archers that can't make the one shot when it counts out in the woods and yet on the range they can literally stack arrow after arrow in a 4 inch circle at 20 yards. Apples and Oranges.

Consistent focused practice based on YOUR objectives..... shooting a bow to accurately take a deer sized animal is really not all that hard or magical as some would like you to believe. Focus on being more consistent and "Form" will take care of itself. I once shot a buck while laying on my belly at 20 yards and I sure as heck did not have "good form"... in fact I short drawed the bow and anchored at the bottom of my chin with bow parallel to the ground.... certainly not my normal "form".... but what I did have was well over a 1000 arrows practiced from that position consistently over many years.

Have fun!!!!! If 15 yards is your current maximium range then develop the skills to get within 15 yards of your target and quit fretting over the fact that your buddy can shoot out to 30-----WHO CARES! Most of the animals I have taken have been from 12-15 yards - I can teach a teenager to hit a basketball at that range pretty quickly..... until someone starts convincing them that they must do this, do that, exactly like this.......... then their shooting typically goes to he**

DT,

Good post. I like your thinking.

Toby

BTW - I have been to Rick Welch's school and it is worth the money. The number one thing I walked away with is this: practice your consistency

If I could pick just one person that I could go shoot with for a day or two it would be hands down Jeffers. His videos/shooting are just crazy good and it appears to me he has a lot of fun doing them. Very fluid style that would work well for what I like to do - bowhunting shooting instinctively.

Can I view Jeffers videos somewhere?

I have considered Ricks school, may start saving up for it.

Jeffers has a bunch on You tube - I don't have a link handy but you can probably do a search. He has some stuff linked on the instinctive thread that was on here recently. I really like his approach and I think he covers every basic you could ever want to become a more natural (instinctive) shot. The one video on follow through alone is worth the time to watch and develop a secondary anchor point - I had never really thought of developing a consistent secondary anchor until I watched that video..... it works. And don't listen to the crap you hear that you cannot learn a new style or undo a habit - hog wash.... most people just don't invest the effort to do so.

The blind bale - especially how Jeffers wrote about using it to focus on one aspect at a time - it very helpful. I have a pretty steady bow arm and consistent anchor (I actually use the back of my broadhead touching my finger as my draw check) so I personally usually use the blind bale to really focus on my release and what my hand does after release.

I will probably never be a great target archer - was never really in my bucket list and there was never any trad clubs close by.... I can usually put my BH tipped arrow in the vitals of our local bucks at 30-35 yards...... but I seldom shoot past 20..... that has been good enough for me for 30+ years.

I rarely pratice with field points anymore unless I am doing bale work. 95% of my practice is done with broadheads shooting into a sand pit and stumping with matching judo points (I use a 125 grain judo with a 75 grain bh adapter to get them up to 200 grain which is where my simmons broadheads wind up). I also never shoot groups, I shoot one arrow, go get it, then shoot it again usually from a different distance and angle. I never shoot arrow after arrow from the same line as I want to train my eye/brain to calculate/aim my arrow "instinctively" every shot. Truth is I suck at judging distance in various lighting and uphill/downhill so I stopped doing that a long time ago. I basically look at a spot and then my shot just happens - I call it instinctive but I have been "educated" on this site not to do that lol.

I do a ton of stump shooting, roving and shooting from my aerohunter and then daily at my house using the sand pit. I very seldom use a target as I like having to pick a spot out. Doesn't work for everyone - but for me it prepares me for hunting which is what I like to do with the bow.

Rick's school is worth the money - but for me the most valuable lesson I walked away with is consistency. Especially in draw length/anchor, bow arm remaining steady after the shot, and follow through.

Good luck and have fun!

Having a proper release in traditional archery.: http://youtu.be/1-RlMR_ga7w

See if this works

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-RlMR_ga7w

As far as I am consirned with how I shot over my life span is what helped me is whats in your head at the time of the shoot and steady at the shot and don't break form.

Thats with game or targets for me. its what you tell yourself is very important as much as anything else.

The form can also be at any type of shot as well to you have to be steady.

The proper release is all part of the shot sequence and form as well too.It all has to flow like butter and not jerking the bow around.

I just watched Jeff's video on the secondary release.

I was always aware of the importance of follow through. This gives me a method to check it on each shot.

Absolutely amazing.

i'll say one thing...these cool mornings, a hint of color on some of the leaves...smells like bow season, feels like bow season, looks like bow season...has me thinking like bow season, which has me shooting like bow season....which has me feeling pretty good.

Jeff shoots WAY faster than most folks should . But for his style of archery it works. I used to shoot that way when I shot right-handed. BUT....I 'll never figure out the reason for his bizarre arrow nocking procedure! ;)

Switched to 3 under, middle finger to corner of mouth to make for nice small gaps. Feather to nose on every draw. These things got me to where every shot is just like every other shot which is what it takes for me.

I aim at nickle sized targets, anything small as a quarter will work, dont adjust your elevation for diff distances till you know your arrow flight, always aim as if it was 15', and move out from there, you will find your comfort range and your limits. then try longer ranges by slightly adjusting for the longer ones. stop as soon as your tired or start to spray them.

Lmao Steve! Yeah that's why no one will ever take me seriously. Hehe.

Jeff ....some of us do! ;) your "secondary anchor" helped me considerably when I first switched to left-handed. My left hand drawing the string didn't have a clue what to do, after shooting right-handed for over 50 yrs.!

Thanks Steve. My entire idea of creating a second anchor point in archery is that by doing this it automatically sets the stage for continued and proper back tension because everything in the shooting frame remains in proper alignment for the shot to take place. Everything remains along the same plane of the arrow.

Duct Tape.

I put 2" orange circles of duct tape on all the targets. Big as a bear, small as a raccoon, even on 4" x 4" foam muzzy blocks. Shoot any size target from any distance and have a constant frame of reference.

I've done this for about a month at home and had my all time best 3D shoot last weekend. I got the idea from a Leatherwall post, but I don't remember who's it was. Does anyone remember his handle? I'd like to thank him. He also suggested carrying a 2" circle with you to look at before taking each shot.

Oh and Steve you are absolutely right about how fast I shoot. I absolutely do not recommend anyone attempt to do the same, especially beginners until they are entirely sure about their shot sequence. I speak about this in one of my videos on "shot sequence". It is just that I have been shooting this way, especially wing shooting like this for so long that my shot sequence has gotten more fluid over the years. Many will say I an a snap shooter. I guess I am but I still have a very defined shot sequence which I can break down or slow down if I need to. Nothing is random.

I usually hold at anchor a little bit..... kind of settle into it. ... last thing I consciously do is feel the back of my broadhead touch my finger. ... I wish I could about more fluidly like you do Jeffers..... I don't consider yiu tho shot fast just fluid. .... and like the Fred Bear video you posted you can observe your sequence and that you are very consistent...... and you must have hrs vision as well :)

The first step to getting better is to stop asking for shooting advice on an internet forum. Find someone you know is good and ask his help, in person.

IAftrr 45+ years of shooting I still wander my property every morning before work and shoot about 6-12 arrows at random marks from 10-40 yards. Any shot that does not hit within 2"/10 yards or better is analyzed, corrected, and mentally noted. I avoid boredom by varying target, shooting position, speed, angle, and most importantly try to shoot when I feel distracted or not focused on shooting that day.

arrows and bow arm

"Second anchor" explained... www.archerygb.org/support/operations/coaches/coaching_videos.php

Watch the vid titled "Execution".

I say take a pencil and jot down the recommendations that appear most from above. There are guys posting here helping you who are at the top of the list of folks I would ask for help. Viper, Jeffers etc. Mental, physical and attitude at the time are all important. Take your time to sort thru it all, but do not try to incorporate all the advice at once. There is advice here I intend to use!

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