I just read a article by Tim Lewis entitled Crossbows, Compounds, Traditional or Primitive. If you get the time and don't have a subscription to Primitive Archer, go to their website, scroll down to the article, click read the whole article and it will open your eyes. It is not PRO any type of bow, but covers a lot of misconceptions about all types of bows.

I read the article and I have to say I do agree with Tim on this one. We need to focus our efforts and attacks to the anti hunters. Hunters need to rally more then we are currently doing.

Differences need to be put aside, and we need to work for a common goal.

I have no time for the "big tent theory". Did the crossbow , compound , or gun hunters fight for years to establish generous "archery only" seasons ? NO..... All they've done is shorten them by divying up the archery season for all thier special interest groups! We've lost a month of our archery season over the years to MORE and longer gun seasons.

SB, for years I thought just like you. I now compare it to the situation of the American Indian tribes. They fought against the U.S. government (Whites) while also fighting each other. They didn't start to unite until it was too late.

It's too bad that people forget why they got into archery, it's called having fun and sharing it regardless what you use.

The problem with that SB type of thinking....when the crossbow guys get their own season...where do you think they will carve it out of?

We are fighting the antis here in Ca after losing many hunting seasons- mtn lions, spring bear....

Now in Ca they want to outlaw,"All hunting game with dogs" birds, pigs, everything. We have much more important things to worry about than crossbows....

I hunt with a bow the entire deer season in TN. I killed my best buck with a longbow during the rifle season. Don't expect people who only hunt with rifles, and have an effective range of 300+ yards to "lobby" for longer archery seasons. Hunting is what you choose to make of it. Speck

We need to concentrate on anti-hunters and land closures. I do no tare what you hunt with or when, I will still use a recurve.

I have a lot of friends who hunt. Not one of them do so with a longbow or recurve. I don't have a clue why some of you guys want to separate from fellow hunters...

SB, you are very wrong here. Years back the United Bowhunters of PA got an additional two weeks added on to our deer season extending it into early November. There were lots of compound shooters that helped make that happen.

I really don't understand the crossbow hatred. If they were FORCING people to use one then I could see it, but they aren't. I guess for some folks it really bothers them when someone else chooses equipment that they choose not to use. I have much more important things going on in my life to even have a scintilla of concern for what kind of bow someone else wants to shoot!

That's great Phil ! ... But it dosn 't happen in this state . Every different group wants thier own season....and it gets chopped right out of our archery season. We used to have a 3 day gun season ... then it was seven, then a split 9 day and 7 day season, then a. 14 day muzzleloader season.,,I used to hunt with a REAL muzzleloader in the bucks only general season...never had a problem killing a buck. It's a gun.... There already WAS a season for that! Then you have the youth season where they can shoot anything that moves... the rest of us have APR's . When I was a kid we had no special season, you hunted the general season and followed the rules everyone else did. So now we have a total of 36 LESS days of archery season! Where did all this get us? This year other than a couple areas the whole state is a ONE deer limit. NO bonus antlerless tags. Huge areas up north are bucks only...one deer. The Mn . DNR commissioner has been pushing his own agenda for years.... and has pretty much ruined ALL deer hunting in this state! Public input meetings mean nothing to them ... they do whatever they please ...and it's NEVER in the sportsmans interest.

The problem with a crossbow is its NOT a bow and its been shoved down our throats for nothing more than the almighty dollar. Get a clue. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

Sounds like MN is not a good place to hunt right now.

A crossbow is a "crossbow", common sense should take over as it pertains to that. The problem is not the weapon itself or its lethality, it's the fact that it is being allowed during "bow" season. The name alone drives many of you crazy! If someone wants to hunt with a sniper rifle and call it a "bow", more power to them. LOL! I know what I do, why I do it, and what I do it with, and that's all that matters. Speck

Exactly Don! How hard is THAT to figure out ? Why can 't we use high power rifles in muzzleloader season?

Crossbow is not a bow? Silly me. I thought for sure that it killed by shooting a pointy stick which caused shock via blood loss due to razor sharp blades, and that the pointy stick was launched by energy stored in the drawn limbs, and that at NO time in this sequence of events were there any explosions or "BANGS" to be heard.

What could I have been thinking?

Woods Walker that's great. :-) Unless one is forced in my hand I'm ok with some one else using it. At least they are getting to hunt with something that they can kill ethically with, and then for the greater good we should try to get along. Cool Article and thanks for the information.

A BOW dosn 't have a stock, a trigger and a scope!

Toehead look up ODNR, Ohios dept of nat resouces and get their numbers. Use that in your state. I posted em a little while back but forget what they were now. Something like 38k bow kills and 49k crossbow kills in 2013. It shows that crossbows do have a large effect on deer population when you give them the long archery seasons.

So compounds aren't bows then either? They have triggers, scopes, reduced letoff. And compounds have increased the deer kill more than ANY other archery item in the history of the sport.

Bingo Woods Walker, now your getting it. Compounds were embraced and promoted for the almighty dollar as well. No, there not "bows". It's as simple as this, a BOW has no bearings.

Well, crossbows are in gun season in NH...right where they belong. Also, with a Dr. not handicapped shooters may use one during bow season. Jawge

"Bingo Woods Walker, now your getting it. Compounds were embraced and promoted for the almighty dollar as well. No, there not "bows". It's as simple as this, a BOW has no bearings."

Kudos to you for being consistant. I really mean that. I don't agree, but I cannot argue with your opinion because it's consistant with your logic.

I don't care what you want to hunt with. However, the more efficient the weapon is, the shorter and more crowded our seasons will become. That does not appeal to me, at all.

It's been called a crossbow for thousands of years. So yes, it is a bow...it's a crossbow. You don't have to like it, but you weren't around to name it. No I don't use one, nor do I have any money invested in them. They are inanimate objects that have been around for eons.

Even with all of the technology today, we are losing hunter numbers, not gaining them. The crossbow will run it's course for a decade and then they will end up in the closet like most other weapons. They are legal here in the Pa. bow season and have been now for about six years I believe. I've seen a total of three different bowhunters using crossbows in early bow season around this area, and that has been on public land. We also share our early bow season with squirrel hunters using shotguns, deer hunters using inlines, and even a week of rifle doe for youth and seniors. Still we are not gaining hunters.

The fastest growing sector of archery right now is the traditional side...hell manufacturers can't keep up. And, lots of those new traditional shooters will come from the compound and crossbow genre over time. So just think about who you are beating up, they may be standing beside you at a shoot sometime holding a new recurve or longbow. That is if they are treated with respect.

Well, let’s hold on just a minute…

Seems to me that if the DNR is adding days to the firearms season(s), then I’d guess it’s because they are trying to thin the herds a bit and the lautenboomers are a helluvalot more efficient than Thangs Thet Twang. Now, I’m going to assume that APR means antler point restrictions and that tags aren’t so expensive that you have to take out a mortgage… and if those are being applied, I’d wager that it’s because they are trying to improve the age structure of those thinner herds by increasing the number of bucks that live to be 2 years old. And the extra days in firearms seasons do probably make it somewhat more likely that a guy can fill one of those APR-affected tags. So chances are that the “if it’s brown it’s down” rules for Youth Days are there to increase a kid’s chances of getting hooked on hunting, thereby ensuring a supply of hunters into the future.

Of course, if a guy is accustomed to bowhunting that first week in November and having the woods all to himself while the shotgunners and riflemen are still sidelined, then yeah, that’s a “loss”..

But what is gained is more individual hunters having the opportunity to fill at least ONE tag per year, which keeps more hunters in the pipeline for the long term, which is what is going to keep the DNR’s budget closer to where it needs to be and will preserve the economic (and therefore the political) clout that hunters currently hold.

Honestly, I’m not seeing much to dislike, unless the laws permit you to hunt more than one season per year AND at the same time prohibit the use of archery tackle during a “firearms” season. You’d need the blaze orange requirement, of course, but JMO it’s ridiculous to prevent anyone from hunting with their preferred weaponry SO LONG AS they are doing it in such as way as to INCREASE the challenge of the hunt for themselves and do not detract from the experience enjoyed by others…

Myself, I would OVERWHELMINGLY prefer a longer, all-inclusive, “general” season (with length and dates dictated by herd management objectives), and shorter-but-more-restrictive seasons for “trad” archery and smokepoles ONLY…

We who live on the fringe do so at the pleasure of the majority. The Deal was that our “set-aside” seasons would be timed and of a duration such that we would enjoy a collective success ratio that was on par with that of the riflemen, and that the total harvest in the earlier seasons would not affect a “main-stream” hunter’s chances of acquiring or filling a tag in any given year; I don’t think it ever occurred to any of the state managers (at the time) that bowhunters (of all things!!) might become the proverbial 10% of the hunters taking 90% of the deer…

So I guess that’s what bothers me about some of the attitudes that have cropped around the equipment restrictions or lack thereof… We who are the Equals of every other hunter do not deserve any greater access to the resource than anyone else simply because we hunt with one or more different weapon(s) than the 1-season rifleman. That’s not the way it’s supposed to work…

GF,

That is a powerful statement. I couldn't agree with you more!

As long as I'm able to use my bow during the rifle season I'm quite happy. My choice of legal weapon is what might limit me, not the law.

Scout

I somehow believe that the anti comments were from those who had a Knee Jerk reaction and never bothered to read the article.

Longer and more gun seasons and shorter archery seasons is good? Not around here! That's why finally there's very few deer and this year other than the metro area, we're all down to one tag! If all you hunt with is a bow... That's hardly what I 'd call " equal opportunity". You can 't drive around and shoot a recurve out of a truck! Which is how the gun hunters hunt around here ! All on land they have no permission to hunt. Which is one reason NO ONE can find a place to hunt anymore!

here in washington we have been a one tag one species state forever it seems. it works for me. and here, if not for the compound shooter numbers we would have just a very few archery areas in the entire state. there weren't and are not now, enough hunters that shot longbows and recurves to interest the game department.

Anyone have a link to the Michigan DNR study.

I don't understand why the those who are against the crossbows are expected to back off and except in order to fight the anti hunting movement , but the ones fueling the fire to get crossbows in archery season are not asked to back off. If the crossbow companies and the ones who feel like they have to use crossbows loved our sport enough then they would back off and not cause friction in the archery season ranks. Remember , they pushed and pushed to allow their products and they caused the problem. Not for the love of the sport but for the love of the sportsmen money.

MP, I don't know about you, but I "paid" money for every recurve/longbow I've ever owned. Just sayn.......Speck

A bolt is not an arrow.

A rifle stock is not a riser.

George, you need to remember Mark Twain's advice on language. Old Sam told us that there is a hell of a lot of difference between "lightning" and a "lightning bug."

A "cross" bow is to archery what a Toyota 4runner is to track and field.

"... and this year other than the metro area, we're all down to one tag! If all you hunt with is a bow... That's hardly what I 'd call 'equal opportunity'."

Steve - did you see Larry's post? I grew up out in CO, where until just recently, The Deal was that you get to purchase ONE tag per species per year, and you get ONE season in which to use ONE type of weapon with which to fill that ONE tag. And the beauty of that system is that it builds in a gut-check for anyone toying with the idea of that early archery season, because it's not worth doing if you don't either think your chances are equal/better with a bow or you simply prefer bowhunting to such a degree that it's worth giving up some probability of tagging out just in order to be out there with your bow....and a lot fewer other hunters.

If all you hunt with is a bow and you don't like your chances, there's always the rifle option. You say that you can't drive around and shoot a recurve out of a truck. That's true. But then you can't drive a truck around AT ALL once you get a few hundred yards off the nearest road and into some of the thick stuff where the deer are most comfortable...

Growing up in the CO system, I hunted exactly ONE late rifle season before switching over to archery (when I still lived out there) and/or ML, as I've hunted that way a couple of years since I came out East. No real benefit to a 4-week season if you can only afford one week off of work... And it only took me that first rifle season to learn to get the hell away from any form of motorized vehicles and into Wilderness, though the fact is that Elk are perfectly happy hanging out just a quarter mile or so off of the nearest road, since only a small fraction of the hunting population ever ventures that far into the bush...

Anyway, as a guy who was always accustomed to being allowed only ONE tag per year, I (personally) thought it was a pretty generous deal when MN started allowing a guy to hunt more than one season to fill it. The thing is, there are enough folks who want to hunt that a herd which is in good balance with the landscape can't support a harvest level that provides multiple tags per hunter. So we've got to share the wealth. If you want to share a little less, you just have to decide whether you want to hunt more or fill your tag more often.

Same in New Mexico. Only people that are into archery hunt with a bow. One fork antlered deer, pick your weapon when applying for a draw tag. It sure eliminated those who wanted to hunt multiple seasons. It's a lot more enjoyable now without guys running up and down the roads and trails in pickups and ATVs.

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