From: ProAlpine
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Date: 20-Jul-14 |
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I decided to try paper tuning to figure out what point weight I need before settling on a broad head. All shots showed the fletching/nock tearing the paper below the point. My nock point was 1/2" above the shelf. So I gradually tried raising the nock point 1/8" at a time but almost got no change in the results.I continued until the nock point was 1 1/8" above the rest and still showed a tear of fletching/nock below the point. Lastly I decided to try less than 1/2" above the rest to check the results - it wasn't long before I was hearing/feeling the shaft hit the shelf upon release and getting whacky arrow flight. Any ideas? Could it be something in my release? I'm shooting 3 under and off the shelf. Thanks everyone!
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From: JamesV
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Date: 21-Jul-14 |
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If you have the right spined arrow and the bow is tillered right with your nocking point at 1/2-3/4" for 3 under you should be in the ballpark. I tiller my bows 1/8-3/16" positive for split fingers and 0 or even tiller for 3 under.
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From: Clydebow
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Date: 21-Jul-14 |
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Because of the different way some grip the string, they might never get rid of nock high or low. If your spine is good,and the fletched shafts groups where you want with good arrow flight with your broadhead, you should be good to go.
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From: Wormbowl
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Date: 21-Jul-14 |
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Try 2 nocking points
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From: ProAlpine
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Date: 21-Jul-14 |
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I bought the bow used, so I don't know how it is tillered. Would split finger tiller result in nock low if shot 3 under? I guess I just go with what I've got and hope for the best when ordering broad heads...
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From: Stix
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Date: 21-Jul-14 |
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I have found that paper tuning is very hard to do with finger/off the shelf releases. The best way is to broadhead tune your arrows to find out what weight, brace height, nock set give you the best results. (arrow going where you look)
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From: Clydebow
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Date: 21-Jul-14 |
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Also what Wormbowl said.
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From: bigfoot1408
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Date: 21-Jul-14 |
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your arrow spine is too weak, if your nock point is too high your arrow will rise on the nock end, if it is too low it will go high on the point. the noise you hear is the arrow slapping the bow as it goes over the shelf.. yes flamers I can prove this.
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From: ProAlpine
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Date: 21-Jul-14 |
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I garantee you the spine is not too weak. I'm shooting 300 spine gold tips 7595 cut to 31", my draw is 30". I've tried 400s, 340s and finally 300s with this Blacktail 62" 52#@28". When having spine questions I received several PMs from other Blacktail owner all saying their bows liked stiff heavy arrows. Yes the arrow was slapping the shelf, but ONLY when I had the nocking point even with the shelf.
Wormbowl, when you say 2 nocking points, are you referring to 2 right next to each other or one above the arrow and one below?
Stix, when you say to broadhead tune, do you mean order a whole size range of braodheads and see which ones work the best by adjusting various weights, BH and nock point? I was hoping to accomplish all this with field points then order the weight broad head that I need...
Any other ideas?
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 21-Jul-14 |
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Are you shooting a vertical bow? If not, then you really can't tell if it is spine or a nock set issue.
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From: Wormbowl
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Date: 21-Jul-14 |
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Nocking point above and below
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From: ProAlpine
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Date: 21-Jul-14 |
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Yep, bow is vertical.
Wormbowl, sorry for mr ignorance, but how will 2 nock points help? When I shoot 3 under my index finger is right up underneath the nock... Could it be I'm effecting the release with my 3 under grip too tight?
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From: SB
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Date: 21-Jul-14 |
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75/95 out of 52#? You've GOT to be kidding ! I don't see how you could get anymore overspined ! I 'm shooting 29" 30/50's with 145 gr. out of that same poundage.
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From: Wormbowl
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Date: 21-Jul-14 |
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Arrow can slide down the string on release. Look up some videos, possibly on youtube.
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From: dragonheart
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Date: 21-Jul-14 |
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I would bare shaft test. Never liked paper with a finger release. When you release the string your index finger is not there anymore so the arrow can and will move down especially on a less than perfect release. Nock set above and below the arrow nock is ideal.
How is your nock to bowstring fit? Too tight of a nock to bowstring fit can give some weird results.
Here is how it should fit:
http://www.tradbow.com/public/Accuracy-and-Nock-Fit.cfm
I would try going really high with the nock set and 2 nock locators above and below. Always better to have too high a tail end of the arrow than too low.
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From: dragonheart
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Date: 21-Jul-14 |
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I would not worry about tuning a broadhead yet, get a field point flying before you put wings on the front of the shaft.
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From: Bowmania
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Date: 22-Jul-14 |
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Very odd problem, because high nock and low nock almost always show high. Although, I don't believe in starting with paper tuning. I was going to suggest Wormbowl's two nocking points one up one down and pay attention to what Stix stated. Then I saw the .300 spine for a 52 pound bow. I don't think you could get that to tune with 500 grains up front and I'll bet I could tune the bow at my 29 inch draw with .600.
BTW, when you buy new arrows tune with www.acsbows.com/bowtuning.html.
Bowmania
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 22-Jul-14 |
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What SB and Bowmania said. That shaft is much too stiff for your bow.
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From: ProAlpine
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Date: 22-Jul-14 |
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I tried the 2 nocking points... bingo! That got any sort of wiggle I was having out of the flight. Thanks!
The nocks fit the string loose enough so that once nocked it could move around under its own weight, but pop off with a solid tap of the string. The second nock point has stabilized the nock until it is released from the string. Thanks - I had to visualize that before I could understand it.
I hear what you guys are saying... 300 spine? I'm new to trad, but have owned and shot a dozen trad bows. I wasn't psyched to have to buy new arrows either, but I started with 400 spine and 200 gr up front and worked my way through 340 spine to 300s shooting 125 gr to 300 gr with each spine. I have a buddy who has been shooting trad for 25 years, who lent me some 300 spine arrows to try. He couldn't believe it either but agreed thats what I needed. As I mentioned, I received 3 PMs from other Blacktail owners saying heavy, stiff arrows. At my draw I'm shooting around 60# with this bow and D97 14 strand string. If there is one thing that I've learned from trad it's EVERY BOW IS DIFFERENT. Most are handmade - which is what I love.
My hopes are to get these arrows flying like darts and hitting like hammers so I can hunt trad in a month. I've hunted with a compound for several seasons and riffle/shotgun hunted and fished 25+ years. The idea is to get the arrows dialed with field points and then move to a single bevel 2 blade broad head. I don't want to buy 3 different weight of heads if I can help it, so I'm trying to get good arrow flight first.
Thanks for the ACS link. I've read that before but it's great to refresh as I'm going through the process.
Cheers
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From: ProAlpine
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Date: 27-Jul-14 |
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Just a follow up - The 2 nock points has worked wonders! I continued to shoot field points until I was absolutely sure which were flying the best. Then I bought some Werewolf Broadheads and I'm still getting great flight - straight with no wobble.
I'm quite pleased to get this bow tuned and arrows figured out.
Here's what I'm shooting: Blacktail Elite VL 62" 53#@28" my draw length is 30". Arrows are GT 7595, cut to 31" with 175 gr points/broadheads for total arrow weigh of 569 gr. FOC is 11.76%
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From: devonapo
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Date: 28-Jul-14 |
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Let us know how the werewolves work on game and if they are worth it
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From: coxral
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Date: 28-Jul-14 |
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I agree with 2 nock points! Never liked bare shaft or paper, line of site for me. If it flies good and hits the target, I'm happy. I try not to over think, just me. Still meat in the freezer!
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