I was told if you bare shaft wood shafts hou risk breaking them. If thats the case what are the different ways to tune arrows.? Which way works best?

bare shaft and yes I have broke a couple. but worth the cost for the results. when you get it tuned it will shoot with feather shafts all day.

You can bareshaft wood arrows. You just need to start with a spine that is close and shoot them into a VERY soft backstop.

There usually isn't a reason to bareshaft wood arrows though. As a rule if you buy them spined properly for your bow, point weight set they're a lot more accurate than you can shoot them.

Just like any other arrow shaft material you an tune them by length, point weight, centershot, and on and on.

I totally disagree with bareshafting woods. You younger guy's seem to think that only one spine shaft will shoot from a given bow, that is not the case. Every bow will shoot a range of spines very well. A very simple formula will determine what spine range will be needed. Until carbon shafts were developed bareshafting was unheard of. Don't get caught up in the idea that bareshafting is the only way to determine what spine is needed, in fact bareshafting will usually result in a shaft that is slightly over spined then what is needed. Bob

I was at a shoot and it was drizzling and my arrow flew terrble

I bare shaft my wood arrows after I do the numbers to match me and the bow. Its just a FIRST step in confirming my choice and the start of other turning steps.

Yep I break a few if I blow it and start with a way off shaft pick. But not many cause we learn fast and bare shafting is worth it to me. :)

I have been bareshafting my wood and aluminum arrows for around 15 to 20 years.You can break them if you are way off on your spine choice,and I had broken a couple in my early days.I learned to bareshaft tune right after I started shooting traditional around 20 ears ago.Some may not agree but it works for me.This was long before carbon arrows were getting big for trad shooters.I have been doing it for so long its just like second nature for me.I have a lot of bare shafts and can't get a new bow without bareshsaft testing and tuning any new or new to me bow I aquire.

I agree with Bob. A guy once said to me,if your gonna shoot em with broadheads and fletches,why not tune em with em.

I do not bare shaft woods either. I am more concerned about the weight variances in wood shafts. If you want to bare shaft that is fine but you need those shafts real close in spine at least.

New to wood. However I bare shaft wood a tic week and have a comparison to carbon Eg. Carbon .500 wood .450 tuned well out of the same bow. Is this necessary probably not. As Bob stated a lot of fletched wood arrows fly well with the same bow. That being said a built a spine tester and hand spined 450 shafts and there was range mostly in the 5 # ranges. I bundled them in plus or minus 15 thou sets. They will bare shaft tune. None of this is necessary unless your a nit picker like me. Wood just seems to fly good. Cameron

Correction it was 300 shafts. I paid 450 for them. Seniors moment. Cameron

I bareshaft my woodies, just to see what's goin on. I agree that it is unnecessary.

x2 fdp and arrowmaker

just no need to, you will know which spine group fly the best

If you shoot beter than that get some X-10's and go to the olympics

I agree with aromakr. I don't believe in bare shafting. Go to Elite Arrows and read the section in Paul Jalon's web site about how to paper tune with fletched arrows. I have done this for years and have had excellent results getting the proper spine shafts my bows required.

TOTAL WASTE OF TIME!!!!!!!

Spine them, weight them and shoot them made up. Know how to adjust the other things in tuning your set up.

I'm 61 yo been at this all my life since 8 yo when I got my first bow and have never bare shafted any arrows in any thing thats ever been out there!

From the old school and the trophys to prove it.LOL

Not saying bare shafts don't work but if you can't get the arrows to work the old ways then you aren't an ancient and need to go back to their ways.

If you have to use scales and wives tails then you aren't cut from the tradional mold either!LOL

This is not hard and thats why you see spine test packages around. If you have many bows and various weighted arrows and spined for them just try those out and see which one flys better.

Put a broadhead on the arrow and tune it to hit where the field point hits.

NOW YOUR TUNED.

If the bh hits left of the FP it's too stiff. If the bh hits right of the FP it's weak. IF your right handed.

Bowmania

I am pobably bare shaft them anyways.

I bareshaft and it works.

And I too have the trophies to prove it.

Big deal.

My bow will shoot a wide range of spines, just not very good. I always bare shaft new set ups. If you break a shaft, well you know that aint it, and you adust for it. Form issues, torque on the string ect will play havoc with you though. The better your release the spine variance you can get away with, we arent machines though

Do your own thing. But, Bare shafting wood arrows is about as needed as a yellow jackets nest in the shrubs you're trimming. Of course, just my opinion.

I have a longbow shooting wood shafts from 70 to 85 spine. 75-85 are the same length at 28.5 inches to bop (29.5 total). The 70-74 's are shorter at 28.25 to back of point (29.25 total). I can only shoot field tips or blunts on those though. I shoot them all to intended point of aim by using a 125 and 160 grain points. It is that simple and that easy. No need to bare shaft. Just use a formula to get in the range you need. They'll shoot with any other shaft if you do this.

I use the following formula.

add 5 pounds for every inch of shaft over 28.

Add 5 pounds for ff string.

Add 5 pounds if your shooting a recurve.

Add 5 pounds for every 1/8th past center.

Deduct 5 lbs for every 1/8 short of center.

You add or subtract from the bow weight at your draw length. If you want to use a heavier point than a 125, you have to allow for the in between. I get by with the shorter shaft and 125 head for 3D work because it is stiff enough at the bottom if the formula scale. After I shoot these out, I'm going with the 75-79's or the 80-84's. I shoot the 75-79's with a 125 tip and 80-84's with the 160's. I'm sure either would shoot a 145 just fine though. It is the beauty of wood arrows. God Bless

Bareshaft hasn't worked well for me, but I have great results from paper tuning. Broadhead tuning works well, too, but I find it hard on feathers and shafts.

I start with a formula much like WVM, and it usually gets me close if not on, but with some bows and some shooters it just doesn't seem to work.

Ottoman archers did that to perfect they release. Kyudo students are practicing that way to shooting bare shafts at a very close distances. Those methods are now being rediscovered by thumb ring archers as well.

IMO, if one desires the optimum performance from their set-up. Bare shaft tuning is the most effective way to achieve it.

Just makes sense,

If you can get a arrow to fly straight and accurately at any distance w/out feathers. It'll be something very special w/ feathers and you won't have to use big hi-back fletching to stabilize large broadheads. Which in turn means flatter trajectory.

I can shoot all my woods with 3 inch feathers and big heads. To each his own. God Bless

Would love to see that WV.

Your formula above doesn't work for every bow design.

Example, I have a bow that is 63lbs @ 28'' and I draw a solid 28'' and it tunes w/ a 2219 at 28 1/2'' w/ a 125gr point. On my spine tester. That 2219 is over 100lbs in spine!

I have made wood arrows for over thirty years. The system we used to tell people for bareshafting was something this. Use the five pound rules to pick the shafts to fit the bow you use.It helps to keep the shafts within 10 grains of each other for better groups. Then take one nock shaft,an stand 15 foot from target an shot the arrow.You adjust nock high or low by moving nock up or down .An for nock right or left , by changing brace height up or down . Then when you switch to broadheads you repeat same thing. An you should have great arrow flight. Gary

Come to WV. I'l be happy to show you. I never claimed "my" formula worked for everybody. Only claimed it will get you dang close. I shoot a 2219 at 28,5 inches outta the same bow I shoot 80-84 spined woodies at 28.5 von to bop out of. What's your point? Were talking wood arrows and bareshafting. Not 2219's. It isn't rocket science. And it doesn't take a physics degree to get arrows that fly true to the mark.

FWIW, You'd really love to see the handful of fir shafts I have in the 75-80 spine range, fletched with 2 inch rayzor feathers, that shoot the big wide delta head, if those 3 inch feathers flip you out. This isn't my first song and dance. God Bless

wv good formula. dick Robertson said my bow would need 10 to 15 lb. spine heavier, recurve with ff. 52@28 my draw 27 bare shaft 60-65@28" 125 tip works perfect out to 20 yards.

I think Ishi bare shafetd , and adjusted point weight, by adjusting flakes /spalls on his points, could be wrong though??

:>)

Been bare shafting wood arrows long before carbons came on the scene. Amazing how many statements on here are completely erroneous. As has been pointed out you need to start close. Gradually move back as you get the spine and set up correct. Yes, if your first guess is too far off and you start too far back you'll break a shaft. Teaches you how to do it properly.

I don't think he was implying it didn't exist. Only stating it wasn't considered the norm or a requirement, like so many suggest it is today.

Once again, if that is your calling than great. But, it isn't needed in any shaft, especially wood. I guess we all use our methods to get the end result. God Bless

Lot of roads to perfection. The bottom line is efficiently flying shafts. Get there how best suits you.

My point is a 80-85 spine arrow will not bare shaft tune from the bow that tunes w/ a 2219. Yes I can shoot many different type of spine through any bow but I doubt very seriously that your bow that shoots those 3'' feathers w/ a wood 80-85 arrow w/ that delta is going to shoot a 2219 w/ the same fletching and head weight as consistently beyond 25 yrds.

Sure is a doozy of a question to ask on this forum. . . and then mark "debate free" 8^)

I have a set of carbon bare shafts that I use for tuning (by adjusting the weight of the field point until I get stright flight). When I find a carbon bare shaft that flies straight, I enter its information into Stu Miller's Dynamic Spine Calculator. I then build up my wood arrows to have the same dynamic spine. I am surprised at how well it works when I go back and check through paper.

I doubt the Ottaman empire utilized a spreadsheet--certainly not Excel (so it probably isn't the most traditional), but if you want easy, this is easy. In the end, it probably isn't much different than using a formula, other than it gives a starting point that is YOUR starting point for your personal shooting form.

I am not that just the right spine is critical, but as easy as it is. . . .why not?

overbo: If his bow is cut past center, it will shoot both 80/84 spine woods and 2219 with out problems. I would suggest before you say it can't be done to try it first. There's an old saying, when you assume, you make an ass- of u & me. Bob

Well said Bob.

Overbo, you can doubt all you want. Only 125 or so people see it monthly besides me. God Bless

So WV and arromaker,

You are telling me because a bow is cut past center. It will bare shaft tune both a 2219(110-115 lbs spine) and 80-85 lbs spine that is the same length and has the same point weight?

You stated the same point weight and fletching to try and "win" the argument you were looking to pick. Neither one of us claimed that in any post. The only reason the 2219 was brought up to start with was you doing just as I stated, trying to tell everyone you were right and we are too dumb to know what we do.

You stated your opinion, we stated our experiences. Just leave it at that. There is no need to call someone out here. The mileage is different. There are many ways to skin a cat. Besides, the question wasn't even about a dang 2219. For the record, the 2219 is wearing 225 upfront. The 80-85 spined fir is wearing a 125 grain tip. Both are shooting 5 inch fletches because that is what I had when I built them. Both shoot big, wide heads, waggle free to the intended target. God Bless

I stated point weight and arrow length to state my '' experience'' as stated in my response above. If I had adhered to the cart you posted for my 63lbs bow. I would've ended up w/ a 75/80 spine wood arrow(which I tried) and it was too weak in spine. This is why I brought up the 2219! The bow required a shaft 30+lbs more in spine, than the cart would calculate.

Overbo, I'm curious, what wood arrow spine did work out for you?

Prairie Drifter,

I went up to 80-85 spine shaft and still shot weak w/ a 100gr point. Yes, I could've put some huge fletching on them but if I can't bare shaft them out to 30 yrds. I won't shoot them.

How can one say they never bare shaft tune in one sentence and in another make a statement like '' any marginal benefit from bare shaft tuning''. If you never done it. How do you know what benefits there are?????

I thought shooting a recurve or longbow was supposed to be simple. I think some people are over thinking it and making it harder then what it really is. It's not a compound. I never paper tuned a wood arrow and mine fly like darts. If you have the proper spine and your bow is set up with the right brace height, string, etc. your all set. I love to shoot 80 yards just to watch my arrow fly straight with no wobble.

When I shot wood arrows I found bare shaft testing to be quite helpful in getting consistent good arrow flight. I didn't want to mess with brace height, point weight, adjusting center shot, etc. to accommodate a set of arrows. It's easier to start with spined and matched weight shafts, leave them a little long, and trim to length to adjust for spine. I would leave a couple of bareshafts for each set I made up, and fine-tune length. Fletching covers up poor tuning and incorrect arrow selection.

"It's not a copmpound", your right, it's a lot more complicated than that.

Is bare shaft tuning required? Of course not. I suppose tuning at all isn't required either. It all depends on how well you want to shoot.

Next thing we'll be discussing is how some broadheads wind plane and why you need super heavy arrows and BFDFOC to kill a cottontail...and wonder why. :)

I have only made and shot wood(POC) for over 40 years. Never had much of an issue with tuning. I tried the bare shafting approach years ago when I got a Black Widow recurve and everyone was taking about how necessary it was because of the bows performance. After all the fuss, I ended up at the same arrow set up that I was going to use in the first place. I concur with those that believe it"s not necessary, but I was glad that I tried it for the experience.

"It's not a copmpound", your right, it's a lot more complicated than that"

You just make it complicated. It's really not. You do have to practice a lot more, but set up is really not hard.

Fetching doesn't cover up bad tuning. A untuned arrow will not shoot to the point of aim, waggle free. It does give a wider margin of acceptability, however, tuned is tuned. An untuned shaft, regardless of fletching size will not shoot a three bladed wide head to the same impact as a field point.

If you feel the need by all means. Just don't try to insinuate others are careless in their approach. So far, I've shot through every deer but two with my "marginal tuning". Those two were broadhead and archer failures, not tuning. God Bless

But fletching can correct a slightly incorrect spine arrow! Why do you think flu-flu's work so well w/ a very wide range of spine arrows.

I have to agree with Bob and wv on this one. It is very possible to tune and shoot different spines from the same bow and get great results with small fletches and broad heads. 100 grains up front isn't really a lot of weight. My normal setup is 4 inch fletching with broadheads not because smaller wouldn't work, but because my arrows are tuned properly to my situation and I prefer a little more stabalizing influence for a cold shot release. I have and could shoot two fletch 3 inch feathers with a broad head and got great flight..would I use it in a hunting situation? Probably not for the afore mentioned reason. Each of us probably knows pretty well what works for us and our individual situation. We have probably arrived at that place because of our tinkering and gear adjustments so the need to do so and the time required is probably better used in other arenas of our practice. My suggestion is this: go ahead and bare shaft, paper tune and do any other type of tuning you wish to try, it is the only way you will know what your prefer and what works for you. Your path on this road is your own. You may stop and ask directions along the way, some will be great and others not so much. Really in the end it comes down to where you want to be and how you chose to get there...if you live through it no experience is bad, some are just better than others and you learn from both. Its what you take away that's important.

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