Just to make sure we got our photo posting back, I thought I'd post a pic of the world's greatest bow. Maybe Phil will get that Jack Howard finished and try to show me up.

Joe

Sweet!

From my iPhone too! Thanks techno people!

Nice bows!

My Pick

Covert Hunter by Border Archery

So...I talked with "Fred"...he said it was "Ok" to put him in ;) ...4finger

I tried but these came up.

Kenscollick ,you should show the handle on Johns bow it is beautiful. I've held it many times and admired it.The handle is African black wood with Pierce points.

Here, let me help...

I Think I can also.

Good Idea Tim, There were so many finger prints on it the CSI crew would have had a meltdown.

Here is mine ! Hump

these threads still remind me of chet atkins. he was warming up, doing some riffs backstage when he appeared at a venue near me.a sound guy walked by and said, "man! thats the best sounding guitar i've ever heard!" atkins quickly laid the guitar on the floor and asked, "how does it sound now, son?"

LOL! I sure got my thread polluted with junk bows in a hurry. At least we can post pics again.

Joe

What do you mean "Well, where is it?" You must be a blind man!

Joe

Here you are Frisky. The original Gamemaster.

A closer look.

Wait a minute didn't I already show you up with my Drake? Well if not a couple more will be done soon and then they will surely do it.LOL

Or do I need to show new bow builds to put the the writting on the cake.LOL

Never get tired of looking at purty bows old or new.LOL

Phil, that bow is beautiful! Jack made one hell of a bow.

K Cummings- Now that's a quality Gamemaster! Phil's is so long, it hardly fits on my 24" iMac screen.

Phil- I'm still not convinced your Gamemaster is the best of the best. Too long in the riser and a bit blocky in the grip area. Major concerns here!

Joe

Frisky - go big or go home. It fits on my 27" iMac.

I don't know if it's the best of the best but it's good enough for me. I'm working on a Jet now that is more curvy but just as long and just as good.

Honorable mention goes to this one. It may seem like a production bow but the style, wood and shootability make it one of the best going.

Frisky,

If you would slap some brown or black glass on that bow instead of that butt ugly green you might be able to kill a hog with it.

;)

Where is YOUR bow, Feathers? Probably rattling around in the back of your jeep Strangler with the hi-lift jack and come-along. Getting it properly conditioned for a camo paint job before the turkey hunt?

And we need to reach some consensus on the glass color of Frisky's dream bow. I'm sticking with baby blue.

Once again, they don't paint stealth bombers that color for a good reason--it won't strike fear into anything it's pointed at!

Phil- I just have my doubts we're seeing anything special. When you look at the Grail or the Bow of Bows, you can see something that is missing in all others. It's there!

MikeW- The belly glass is black if that counts.

Joe

Because it's not aqua? Heck, I had an old fiberglass bow that was aqua. Guess I should have kept it since it probably qualified as the grail. :)

When I look at most bows, especially Jack Howard's, I see craftmanship and a design that paved the way for others. When I hold it I can feel the strength and power of the bow. And when I shoot it...well, did I mention how beautiful it is? :)

Jack Kempf Stealth T/D....

One of the last Gamemaster Jet's made. I was told it was the "newest" serial number known. That was last year.

Killed my first Canadian Blacktail with it in Nov 2009.

43# at my draw.

My favorites if not the world's "greatest".....

Grove spitfires

><>>

chief

1956 Kodiak. Scored it at Chamberlin Ranch shoot Saturday.

Man there are a lot of great bows shown here. Really like Jack Kempf. However only one can emerge the greatest, the Ali of bows, and we know what one that is.

Joe

There are some beautiful, down-right elegant bows shown here. So as I was enjoying some of the eye candy, I took another glimpse at Frisky's bow to see if I missed something about it's supposed mystical qualities.

I was wrong about the color being baby blue. It's not. It is more aqua-ish or turquoisey. Probably has some special Crayola-patented name. Whatever--they don't paint stealth bombers that color, either.

Fortunately, Frisky can use some removable camo tape on it that would work great to keep him from getting laughed out of the woods.

Frisky;

""LOL! I sure got my thread polluted with junk bows in a hurry. At least we can post pics again. Joe""

I hope you weren't talking about the collage I posted. That happens to be a Drake Flight bow. thought you might like to see that.

The widdas, as stated above, may provide a little class but a Bracenbury Drifter provides ultimate class.

raghorn- That flight bow really caught my attention. I was waiting to see if someone would comment on it. I didn't think the riser looked like a Drake, but it has the wedge lamination. Really a great bow! One of the only great ones shown above.

ottertails- I knew you were blind. Must have been looking through the bad eye.

Backcountry- won't be long and you'll be going roving with your Widow and Feathers. Disgusting!

Joe

What makes the top bow the worlds best osthat it was my first custom hunting recurve a black widow PSAIII I saved up my money for that adnd killed my first buck with that recurve. The next one is the greatest because i wanted a loNgbow it is quiet BW PLIII i love shooting distances w that bow. The third one is a PSRV from Black Widow its my speciality bow. What masked it great is when my son and i shoot traditional he shoots that one it s 43# he can shoot it the other 2 bows are Sarrels and they are for guest to shoot like mu dad and nephew did yhis past weekend.

Chief, them Groves need hunted with... (hint hint)

Good lord... how much preload did Jack Howard put into his design?

Wanted to show off one of mine too B-)

So many wannabees. So few great bows.

Labs4me and Buglmin had the best looking bows. If it ain't laying on game it's like a pretty nun: interesting but underutilized.

Frisky Joe,

I don't even own a Widder,'cuz I don't plan on needed one to club hawgs with. That's mainly what they're good for. Besides, IF I were to go huntin' with Feathers, I have a couple of very cool black bows, plus a Quillian. Any of them would work fine for the little piggies I would be after.

And the take-down Wing has a full metal riser that would flat knock down a hawg if I ever needed it to.

Backcountry- ok. I'll cease with the insults for the time being.

Stumpkiller- besides the Widows, Labs4me and Buglmin have two of the most disgusting bows in the thread. Anybody can lay their bow on someone else's kill.

Joe

My Great Northern Critter Getter Special.

DDAAMMNN!!! Frisky, now this is getting down right personal. Someone elses kill? OUCH... That song, "Oops I did it again" keeps popping back into my head every time I look at this pic...

that was last years, this is this years...

Bulgmin- Nice birds, but we have a few problems here. Not only does that loud Widow need silencers, it has Limbsavers too. Also, I don't consider turkeys to be much tougher than shooting tame pigs in a farmer's field. Sorry, but we're gonna have to disqualify your bows from consideration. Note Paul M has 4 silencers on each of his Widows. I've noticed the only reason people have taken trophy animals with Widows, is the old animals can't hear well anymore.

Joe

"Stumpkiller- besides the Widows, Labs4me and Buglmin have two of the most disgusting bows in the thread. Anybody can lay their bow on someone else's kill."

Anybody can buy a bow - but that doesn't make you an archer or a bowhunter. That's just shopping.

Nice turkeys, Buglmin. That bow looks happy!

Frishy is hunting for something - but it't not for the freezer or wall. ;-)

It's true anybody with the money can buy a bow, but as in evidence here, few can pick out a great bow. I have the knack of finding the greatest bows, so the first photo in this thread is of the best bow. You know, they don't call me The Legend for nothing.

Joe

Hunter says your all wrong this one is the best!

Now this thread has really gone south. There's a good reason for that expression by the way.

Everyone thinks their bow is best. People look for the Holy Grail or the Bow of Bows. You're not going to find it, as I have patented the idea. I've cornered the market. Study the bow I've posted here and compare to all others. Then you'll know what I'm talking about.

Joe

Frisky, Sorry to be so blunt sir, and no disrespect at all, but I have no idea what you see in that bow or what makes it so great. The bow does nothing for me, and that colored glass... words cant describe it. I actually expected some pretty figured Silvertip or Blacktail or Jerry Pierce when I opened this thread. Maybe the boy was made by some high school kid you know or something... But like you said, everyone has their tastes. Thanks for the laughs guys, but this kid is headed to bed... Frisky, if you need somebody to kill something with that bow, send it to me, I'm headed to NM for turkeys in a few days. But I'll have to paint those ugly limbs...

Paul- that's a pretty shoddy looking bow you got there.

Buglmin- ignorance must be bliss. How you can even question the greatness of the Drake Hunter-flite #7749 is beyond belief. I have a question. What is the luckiest number? IMO it's 7. The serial number on this bow starts with 77. That's double lucky. The next two numbers are 49. It just so happens that 7x7=49. This bow has the luck of the Irish! This bow is truly the Holy Grail of Bows!

Joe

Just another plain jane bear

The Root Game Master

Anthony, wow. Way to show that turkeys can be got with a regular old recurve. No fancy high end bows or compounds or nuthin'! And they don't even have turk-oise colored limbs like Fricassee's.

But I'm confused by your post where said you told Friksee that you are headed to NM to hunt, but your log handle shows that you're already from NM. Hmmm. So... you up in the U.S. now or what?

What a coincidence that both birds were shot on the same dead tree, but a year apart.

Here's one you don't see pop up too often, a Gore. Frisky probably never heard of one.

Backcountry, I moved back to Colorado after being gone for 17 years to be close to my mom and dad. My mom and dad were alone here, and after having to come up to help move snow in 2009 and 2010, plus with my moms failing heart, it was time to come home. The stump is right here behind my house, on over 1000 acres of turkey and prime mule deer hunting. The turkeys roost just over 400 yards from the house, and strut in the area behind me. We can see and hear them almost all day long. Several others have permission to hunt them, which sucks cause they kill them with a shotgun as they feed along. They don't really know how to call, and after the first two weeks, the birds become very call shy.

It's the provervial hens' teeth of bows.

Opps, I meant Kilgore. The mind is the first thing to go, but I have an excuse, it belongs to my friend.

Kempf Kwyk Styk...

The reason nobody has a Kilgore is nobody wants one. I've heard of them but lacked interest in them. However, if Reddogge likes them, they're probably only half bad.

Joe

I don't have much experience shooting it but my friend bought two of them from Mr. Kilgore in person. They are a rare bird though but I realize not in the same league as "The Holy Grail".

Well, Mr. Kilgore seems to be an accomplished bowyer, so we'll give this one a pass.

Well Frisky I will not die rich but I will die happy with my Howards. My hope is you will always enjoy your bows as much as I do mine. How bout a pic or two of the Savage Deathmaster. I hope it is not collecting dust.

Woodshaft- you have four beautiful bows from an innovative and skilled bowyer. Four fast bows too. However, much of the Howard mystic centered around his claim to have the fastest bow in the world. Bob Savage told me they weren't as fast as his bow. They were also too long for effectiveness on the Minnesota whitetails I pursue on the ground. They were ok for the lesser species Howard concentrated his efforts on- elk and mule deer. I'd take one out after hogs too, but even Paul Bunyans will work on them. Therefore, they don't deserve to be called the greatest bows in the world. That honor goes to my bows. However, the Deathmaster is on hold until my shoulder heals. By popular demand, here is the Bow of Bows.

Joe

Zipper...

Waiting for someone to post a pic of a Soveriegn Ballastic, or a Thunderhorn Heartstopper!!

Frisky, do you know how many bowyers have told me their bows were faster then somebody elses? And as far as the World's Greatest Bow, doesnt Keith Chastain hold that claim? He has been calling his bows World Class Bows, and claims his is the bestest!! Again, sir, don't like how that Deathmaster looks. Looks cheap built, with cheap wood.

I really shouldn't be bad-mouthing that Blacktail, lol! Same with the Silvertip. Did you know the 1 piece tip has the Deathmaster limb design?

I bet the Ballistic has Drake influence in the limbs. Also, poor old Keith Chastain couldn't build a Hinter-flite if he tried!

My Deathmaster has a beauty all its own. That's a bubinga riser with no fancy dancy wood work. No overlays. No nothing but speed, quietness and smoothness. A pure hunting bow.

Joe

I meant "Hunter-flite"

Border CH

Take your pick.

I wouldn't pick any of those pieces of junk, and that Border has too much mass in the riser. That's to keep the shock down. Limb timing isn't quite up to snuff. Same with Widows.

Joe

Morrison G3 riser, Max-1 limbs

That Morrison sure is a silly looking bow. Bows with puffballs and a stabilizer are automatically rejected from the halls of greatness.

Joe

Dang Frisky ain't you just a breath of fresh air,,Happy Easter.

Lot's of pretty bows here :)

LOL! I will give Trux credit for showing us how he built the orangewood bow and did that mosaic. of course, the mosaic was not as difficult to do as I thought, so I have to remove this one too from the halls of perfection.

Joe

Lots of beautiful bows pictured here. But, if you want beautiful (never thought that was as important as performance)bows AND performance, plus take down , It's gotta be The Wing P11.!!!!I've been in archery / bow hunting for over 60 years and have owned and shot 30 or 40 of the most popular bows made. All good, but to name just one is personal. But, my vote would be the Wing P11. If you newer owned or shot one, then your opinion is like ,well you know what I mean.

Frisky, come back after you've shot a P11 awhile and then make your decision.

Different strokes for different people.! What's best for one is not necessarily the best for others. Stupid assumption anyway !!!!!!!!!!!

The Presentation II is a target bow. Like the Hoyt Pro Medalist, they are disqualified from the discussion.

As stated, there are lots of great bows shown here. However, there is only one greatest of the great and we all know what one it is. If it wasn't the greatest, would I have posted it? I have my well-earned reputation as the Mighty Legend of the North to uphold.

Joe

My GT Hawk take down [URL=http://s1330.photobucket.com/user/ bowhunter6979/media/SketchGuru_20131222154910_zps3cd7flja.jpg.html] [IMG]http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w577/bowhunter6979/ SketchGuru_20131222154910_zps3cd7flja.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Frisky, WRONG again. Wing p11s were available in lengths and weights ! I had two risers and two sets of limbs. I could change lengths and poundage. Are you telling me my 62#, 58 inch P11 was a "target bow" ?

The more you say the more you show your lack of knowledge, thus, making your outright assertions questionable and debatable. Opinions are just that, but hardly factual!!

I'm sure we're not missing anything when the GT Hawk pic didn't come up. I disqualify it based just on name alone. Even after I took the time to close a gap in the URL, it won't come up.

Joe

The rule is if it doesn't come up it doesn't exist.

Frisky, i had a chance a couple of years ago to buy a Holy Grail bow, a Drake Hunter Flight in immaculate condition but my friend wanted $450 for it. Too rich for my blood at the time. But at least I held one in my hands.

IoHawkeye- I realize there were length options and hunting weight limbs were available. That doesn't make it any less of a target bow. Disqualification is final.

reddogge- Glad you didn't blow your money on that old Drake. Not a Holy Grail bow at all. Skookum probably made it. It has to be a Mart Mathew/Drake bow with a birdseye maple wedge in the sight window to qualify.

Joe

How about ugliest?

rd2- another target style bow. Disqualified from consideration as the best but is in the running for most disgusting.

Joe

You chose, I do have a very nice Elburg Mite that would just be out of place with the others.

Recurve: Drake Hunter-Flite

[img]http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/TF/pics/00small57201801.JPG[/img]

Longbow: Gharing Cornplanter

"Lots of beautiful bows pictured here. But, if you want beautiful (never thought that was as important as performance)bows AND performance, plus take down , It's gotta be The Wing P11.!!!!I've been in archery / bow hunting for over 60 years and have owned and shot 30 or 40 of the most popular bows made. All good, but to name just one is personal. But, my vote would be the Wing P11. If you newer owned or shot one, then your opinion is like ,well you know what I mean.

Frisky, come back after you've shot a P11 awhile and then make your decision." _____________________________________________________________

I love my Wing PII. But we trend to limit availability to folks who aren't rude or obnoxious so Frisky hasn't owned (or likely been offered a shot . . . from behind) one. The problem with a PII is that is you can't shoot it well you have run out of anything to blame except yourself.

Mine has 40# and 50# limbs, but in white (snow camo). Would love a set of the green hunting limbs. They command a premium price when they come available. Sadly they weren't offerered in a manly hunting color like baby blanket blue. ;-)

Another of the Gharing:

Here's the one of the Hunter-Flite. Note the lack of flashy colors; Nothing but pure function here...

I hope someone posts something impressive soon. I'm running out of patience.

Joe

As the saying goes: "casting pearls before swine." ;-)

No question Drakes are nice bows. So, what have you used that 'ol dust collectr Drake for, lately?

My humble $85 Shakespeare Necedah had a blast this past Saturday.

Mine are the blue & yellow shafts & fletch (Rockwood Shoot).

I only see one blue and yellow in each pic, so you must have missed with the others. You're only as good as the bow, as I've said for years.

Joe

One shot, one kill. The other 13 archers were on their own.

Outdoors - you should turn off the Internet and try it sometime.

"You're only as good as the bow, as I've said for years."

I've reflected on that. I say you're only as good as the arrow. Any bow will do. ;-)

Naw! The greatest bow will shoot just about any straight arrow well. It's all in the bow. Of course, most bows are not the greatest. Only two are and I have them, and I'm not giving them up!

Joe

Dang,,nice set up there w/the PII Stumpkiller,,Outstanding!

All Stumpy does is kill stumps. He ought to cast an arrow in shame.

Joe

Moosehunter, finally a bow with enough limb tip recurve.

Phil, any higher res pics of that beauty.

Yes, we need to study Phil's bows for flaws.

Joe

It's a Bob Lee inspired Wing, Frisky...there won't be any.

Bob Lee is a fine bowyer, no doubt, but I'm thinking even he was inspired by Drake.

Joe

Mr. Lee obviously was NOT inspired by Drake as Bob Lee had no flaws, either in his bows or in his character.

Speaking of character, too bad Frisky, Feathers, and surprisingly, even I, can't make the same claim. I will admit, though, that Frisky's and Feather's are far more obvious!

Unlike Feathers, I'm of unblemished character. I rejected the devil and compounds. I even rejected Widows and returned to my archery roots. That's why I achieved legendary status. That's why I possess the Bow of Bows and the Holy Grail of bows.

Joe

You might have something on Feathers there, Frisky. But I believe he's repented of his past sins but has probably replaced those with new ones anyway.

I've been away from shooting bows so long that I hoped I would have forgotten all my old bad habits. Ever the southern gentleman, Feathers has so many he's happy to lend me some of his!

"But I believe he's repented of his past sins but has probably replaced those with new ones anyway."

Now that was funny, lol! Tomorrow might be a big day for me. I have to prepare ground for a garden at my brother's place. I might throw in some sweet corn to attract deer. I'm also going to set out a couple of the targets for a range and shoot the Grail some more. I'm gonna try the 430 grain arrows but they do have 2" vanes on them.

Joe

Examine the wood that has the serial number stamped into it. Anyone want to guess at what it is? Skookum called it African Crapwood.

Joe

The finish is a bit worn, but that gives it character.

Frisky, you can't give your grail bow a fair test shooting vane-fletched arrows like they use for compound bows... Hey, wait just a doggone minute--Where did you get those arrows? You claimed to have never been corrupted by shooting a compound!

I bought some Easton Power Flights and they came with vanes. They are 500 spine and should shoot off an elevated rest. Later, I'll replace them with feathers. With 175 gr points, they'll come in at about 430 grains and should be ok. Actually, I might have to reduce point weight. The Grail likes heavy spines.

Joe

Frisky, don't let any of your fans see you shooting those 2" vanes.

Yes, I don't like them at all, but I have turkey feathers and a fletching jig, so I doubt they'll stay on the arrows for long. Of course, both Bob Savage and Paul Schafer shot vanes.

Joe

Looks like Skookum backed down from another insult, lol!

Joe

That skunk does look like your pride and joy. I don't know about those bows though. JK

Joe

Dam that made me laugh!

Trapper, don't be offended by Frisky--he's an equal opportunity critic and doesn't even give new guys a break!

We have a lot of fun here and sometimes even share useful information. Welcome aboard!

LOL! I'm an old trapper too.

Joe

Hector- Let's see your bow. I bet it's a fine specimen.

Joe

Here's another photo of that brown wood to the right of the maple wedge in the site window of the Drake. Looks like walnut brown, but Skookum says it's Brazilian rosewood. Any comments?

Check out that reddish wood above the site window in the fade outs. The jury is still out on that too.

Joe

Here's another photo of that beautiful turquoise glass! Also shows that cool wood on the grip Skookum calls East Indian rosewood. I'm in agreement with him here.

Joe

Frisky,

What are those little holes in your bow? It looks like wood bores got to it. lol

That bow is all scared up like someone was beating it against a tree because it shoots so poorly or they were upset at its feminine color.

By the way I love these threads. You guys all have great bows and a great sense of humor even though Frisky has the only 2 bows ever made that were the Grails of bows.

;o)

There are lots of tiny dings on the Grail but nothing major. They are character marks from over 50 years of use. One of only two bows worthy of a legend.

The Legend

Frisky, I think ya oughta have a forester take several core samples out of that riser and have them analyzed at the university's wood lab. They could tell what kinds of wood were used and put an end to all this needless speculation.

Skookum is probably right--the bow is likely 90% African crapwood. If it's impregnated laminated material, then it would be krapwood.

All this extra advice don't come cheap and will be added to your bill.

It had 50 years of use and now in your hands it will be retired into the halls of a target bow right?

Ok folks. Enough of this hero worship. The bow is in "good hands." It will be with me when I take my first P&Y buck.

Joe

Frisk, kidding or not, you are one dumb so# I've been shooting for over 60 years and some of your assertions , remarks, assumptions, are total BS. If your intent is to be controversial,or humorous, you have succeeded. But if it is to be informative and factual, you get an F-! Wing P11 was the first three piece take down and was indeed a hunting bow AND a target bow ! Obviously, you have never shot one Guess you really hit a nerve with your comments about the P!!

LOL! Above all, my purpose here is to enlighten the masses on great bows. I consider it a public service. There's no sense in shooting the messenger. That said, the PII is a fine hunting bow! Even if, the truth be known, they are a pure target bow!

Joe

Hawkeye- just to calm you down, I will admit that the old Presentation II is a beauty! With the short riser and short limbs, the 58" length would make it a fine hunting bow. However, it was conceived as a target bow and is very heavy. It went out of production around 1970, so it had no lasting power. For these reasons, I disqualify it from consideration as the world's greatest bow. Again, we're talking hunting bows here. That short riser was used with longer limbs to win a national target championship.

Joe

Now, the Hunter-flite went out of production before 1970 but was designed as a hunting bow. Thus the name Hunter-flite. It's as light as a feather. It has that beautiful turquoise glass, where the PII has white.

Joe

You mean girly looking glass?

;o)

No. It's retro glass.

Joe

I can't believe I'm forced to defend my pick of the world's greatest bow when it's so obvious. Only the Deathmaster could be greater, but it's too heavy for me to shoot until my shoulder is back to normal.

Joe

Stay tuned...

The thread that wouldn't die...^(_)^

Some beautiful looking bows, function is an absolute requirement and looks is a bonus that adds pleasure to the shooting experience.

The real beauty in Archery is the flight of the arrow hitting it's mark.

I have some great looking wood bows but this rather ugly bow is my favorite, kinda reminds me of the A10, looks like a Warthog but deadly. Out shot 5 pin sighted Compounds with this at the weekend on a 3D course.

I for one like the porta potty green glass.

Zeta- that old warthog ought to be thrown in a garbage can, but you are right- "The real beauty in Archery is the flight of the arrow..."

Porta potty green is just plain blasphemy. Wait until I shoot that bow for the record.

Joe

Frisky it's a keeper, shoots great and it's rare, in that only 20 risers have been made. I followed the riser through design and prototype stage and was inspired by what the Bowyer were trying to achieve.

I took a risk in trying something unproven as I don't have lots of money to spend on bows (it was a 1000 Euro riser) but I do know a top European Barebow shooter who just got one and he has tried every high end Barebow riser ever built, spoke with me the other day and said it was the best riser he has ever shot, I haven't shot enough high end risers to know so it was good to hear his opinion, guess I made a risky purchase that really paid off.

Yes, it looks all business. It has Border-like limbs too. Looks like a really good bow!

" but it's too heavy for me to shoot until my shoulder is back to normal."

Really? I mean really? Cmon really?

To heavy for your shoulder? Explain please?

You must be talking about draw weight right?

"porta potty green" LOL..

I was thinking more of a snot green color myself. Kinda like that mucus color from a kids nose or after a bad cold and hacking up a lung. lol

;o)

Now that's just gross. Porta potty green comes pretty close, as does baby blanket blue.

Anyway, Frisky told us he'd be out spading gardens and shooting his grailbow with those vane-fletched arrahs today, so we probably won't hear from him 'til later. And maybe never, if the grailbow ends up not liking those, either. But as observant participants here might have noticed, he even stuck an elevated rest on the grail. He's a desperate man.

I can't go shoot today. We had 2" of rain and it's still raining a little. I think I'll just kick back and let things dry out.

Joe

...or you could re-fletch some of those vane-fletched arrows you got. If nothing else, just cut the vanes off from some of them to see how they bare shaft with the grail.

Since Skookum started you down this treacherous path, Frisky, maybe he could lend you a couple arrows that might work better for the grail...unless he went and shot all his off that high bridge in his video "Pure Bowhunting."

Ouch, this is getting colorful. I had to wait months before he finally shot the thing and now there is an elevated rest on it and arrow fletching problems to boot? Any more excuses?

Grail? I am having serious doubts now. Maybe it will make for a nice wall hanging decoration. You can title the placard "the grail that wasn't"

I think my old Bear super mag "48" might be better than your grail at this point because it has killed lots of critters. lol

I have a POC old 28# Golden Emperor you can borrow if that shoulder is hurting you that much. ;o)

I shot stiff carbon arrows out of the Grail and they flew beautifully. I have no doubt the Easton PowerFlight 500s, with 2" Blazers, will do just as well. Bare shafting is for folks who never learned to tune properly. It's about as stupid as shooting through paper or re-serving a string to fit a nock when all you have to do is hold the nock in hot water for a second and open the ears. That elevated rest is the key to great flight. In fact, 2" straight-fletched Blazers, with broadheads on the arrow, should fly well to 40 yards, easily. These goofs who insist on 5" helical are just that- goofs!

Joe

OK Frisky, Given you own and can claim the Holy Grail of Bows, and, The Worlds Greatest Bow I would like to ask you a question. If a mortal wanted to buy a new, commercially available bow from one of the contemporary makers, which one bow would you claim could approach the qualities of these gems in your possession, and perhaps someday have a person,like yourself(if this is possible),lay similar claim?

A new grail appeared on my doorstep yesterday evening. It is a Howatt High-Speed NE Plus Ultra in EXTREMELY good condition! I haven't had the chance to shoot it much, but it likes the arrows most of my other bows shoot and seems to be a lot more accurate. Thank you very much to "Short Recurve" for selling a real gem! He is a great guy to deal with. Frisky, please note that this bow is guarded by a band of fiercely patriotic garden gnomes...

I drew a New Mexico Mule Deer tag yesterday too and it looks like this bow will get the nod. I don't need strangely hypnotic colored limbs, I'll just shoot them when they "bow down" to it. I'm sure they will feel honored. - John

Little Delta- That's a very tough question, especially given the crappiness of the current crop of bows. If one could talk Owen and Tom Jeffery into getting out the old Deathmaster forms, they could put out the Bow of Bows. Skookum could probably set up a modern bowyer to build the Grails. Ed Holcombe has done it.

Now, if we look at the current bowyers, Toelke might have a chance with his shorter bows. He's in the right part of the country. The one-piece Silvertip has the Deathmaster limb design. I'd say RER might have a chance. John Fazio could have produced a Grail bow had he been able to keep at it. Overall, I'm not so sure we'll ever again see a Grail bow the likes of mine. We already have flashier bows. We might well have faster bows. However, a Grail bow has to have it all. This rules out Widow and Border and Blacktails and all the other bows that are too bulky in the riser. Last weekend, my teenage nephew visited and held the Grail for the first time. He blurted out, "Wow! This is so light!" Heavy risers are the domain of bowyers who don't know how to make a great bow in a feathery package. The WOW! factor is just there when a bow has everything right.

Joe

Fisher Cat- you're not taking that pile of debris over your Hunter-flite are you?

Joe

OK Frisky, Maybe I made a premature proclamation. It happens. I didn't realize that "Grail Enlightenment" required a vow of chastity and I am not worthy! I will always be tempted to pluck other strings. Alas, I have "flown too close to the sun.."

-John, The "Fallen One"

Well, at least you can compare the two and see what one works best. What's the poundage on the Hi Speed?

Joe

Frisky, It's 48# @ 28" while my Hunter-Flite is 44# @ 28". They are both beautiful (in a slightly different way) and they are both fast. The Howatt is definitely more accurate for me, but its 58" AMO as opposed to the 54" Hunter-Flite. Less finger pinch too, but the little Hunter-Flite is still pretty awesome! I guess I'll have to shoot them both a lot before September. No more bows for awhile, I'm getting overwhelmed. - John

You'll have to see what bow you shoot best, as you know. I don't notice finger pinch shooting the Drake. However, I draw 28" and have small fingers. I shoot it as well as my 60 and 62 inch bows. I do notice 9 pounds less pull. Keep us up on the bows.

Joe

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