Well, I finally got out and shot my Drake Hunter-Flite. The wind was gusting to 30mph, so I mainly went to plan a field course. I brought along 3 heavy carbons I use for my 54# Deathmaster, though the Drake is 45 pounds. Fisher Cat told me his Drake (one like mine) likes stiff arrows. Anyway, I had rubber blunts on them and decided to shoot at gopher mounds and such for now.

My arrow weight is 550 grains. I assess the speed as slower than my Deathmaster but very fast! I shoot the Deathmaster at around 9 grains per pound and these arrows are about 12 grains per pound out of the Drake. When I shoot the Drake at 9 grains per pound, it might well be as fast as the Deathmaster!

The grip felt great and I couldn't feel any hand shock. I only took about 15 to 18 shots at 21 yards, slightly uphill. Arrow flight was good and right on the money. Noise was slightly greater than out of the Deathmaster, but I did no tuning and have no silencers on the string. I think it might end up my quietest bow. I still have to tune the bow up and shoot for groups before I can make a video. Stay tuned for more!

Joe

We are going to need credible witnesses, to avoid any video editing, photostitching etc. After all this is the internet! )))) TLM

Nice to know that the Grail actually shoots as I've followed the other "Mega Thread" and was wondering if it would live up to all the hype.

Hey Frisky, do you wanna sell that Deathmaster, or possibly trade for something else, I have a Grimes I'll trade you for it.

I decided to start a new thread, as the other is getting slow to load for people still in the dark ages. I've got high speed, but some folks don't.

Robert- I wouldn't be caught dead with that grimy anywhere near me. They are about the suckiest of bows, lol!

Joe

Quote from Frisky: "I decided to start a new thread, as the other is getting slow to load for people still in the dark ages. I've got high speed, but some folks don't."

Joe, Are you talking about people who don't own Hunter Flites or just those with slow computers? I often forget that it's a sad, dark world for most...

Glad to hear you are finally enjoying the grail! I'm still shocked at the accuracy of mine for such a short bow.

Any more progress on determining the best brace height? Thanks for the update!

John, "The Enlightened"

I thought this would be about a Grumley.

Isn't the Deathmaster just a knock-off copy of a Root Game Master? ;-)

About time!!! Thought the smack talking would go on forever..jk Well glad you aren't too disappointed...he he..

'Bout time you finally shot that thing! Me and Feathers figured you had, but were too embarassed to admit your disappointment.

Those logs you were asking that girly bow to hoist weren't a fair test. A four-fifty grain arrow would be plenty for those tree rats you were planning to hunt with it anyway.

I've set up some 430 grainers to try out of the Grail. They should blow smoke and I'll be better able to compare it to my other bows.

This is interesting- At 54", I found the bow as easy to shoot well as my 60" Deathmaster or 62" Howatt Hunter. However, I only draw 28". I'm way out of form but hit a piece of Kleenex, shot after shot, at 21 yards. Usually, when I've gone all winter without shooting, I start at 10 yards and go back. I can see this will be an excellent hunting bow.

Brace height. I'm at about 7.20 inches. I'm going to try it at 7.5" later this week, weather permitting. Then try 6.5 inches, to see if the "expert", who used to make them, is correct. I told my neighbor that Skookum advises the low brace height for the bow, and he asked me if I hung up the phone on him, lol! I explained it wasn't a phone conversation.

Joe

Fisher Cat wrote..."I often forget that it's a sad, dark world for most..."

This is truth the poet sings. Most of you can't see much difference in speed from one bow to another. That's because so many of them are slugs.

Stumpy- The Root bows are not in the same league as the Deathmaster or I'd have one.

Joe

Frisky I agree there are some bows that are faster than others

It's just a warmup for the big event. At least I did get out and shoot it.

Joe

Well at least you got the thing strung, I was worried for awhile.

It's the easiest bow in the world to string. It shoots well too. George, have you shot a Hunter-flite? I think it would be about the perfect bow for you.

Joe

Frisky, I'm almost embarrassed to say I have never shot one. They are beautiful bows and I have seen a few over the years. Just never had one cross my path.

It might be the only "modern" bow known to mankind that George hasn't shot!

If I'm home in May when you come through, you'll have to stop and shoot it. My brother called to say he wants me to go on a vacation with him in May, but I'm trying to get out of it, lol! Anyway, I shoot within 1/4 mile of I-90. You could shoot the Grail and the Bow of Bows. I'm setting up a course at his place.

Joe

Joe...'Frisky'.. I'd enjoy seeing some pictures of the Drake bow..I've never seen nor handled one..

What makes it the holy grail of bows?.. I doubt Jesus handled it ever..:) Jim

Dire- You know, the Holy Grail of bows is subjective. For some, it might be an old selfbow. Others might be in Heaven with a Fred Bear TD. This one ended my search for a short hunting bow. It's the right length and draw weight. The right physical weight and was made in Harry's shop. It has the perfect grip. It has speed! I wanted something I could shoot heavier arrows with at around 45 pounds pull. It has to be fast or I'd lack confidence in it. Finally, it had to be cool! Coolness is very important in a bow. I can't post even a tiny pic right now. Get an error message.

Joe

Frisky, you have got my interest as well, would love to see some pictures.

Jesus may not have handled the Grail, but Frisky himself has. He has also signed off some posts as "king of kings!" So no lack of hubris and confidence here, something you need to shoot well consistently, I guess. Maybe that's why I shoot consistently...bad!

Frisky probably wouldn't have even let Jesus shoot the Grail!

We've had a lot of fun, funning Frisky on this thread.

Backcountry- what I can't understand is folks asking to see pics when I've already posted a record number of pics of this bow, lol! They must be joking.

Joe

Those were static images.

We'd like to see it healing the sick, curing leoprosy, being outdoors, launching arrows.

Those kind of Grail things. ;-)

OK. You want action shots! I'll do a video when I get it tuned. I did two videos in the past and they were garbage. I want to do a good one. Maybe I'll shoot barn swallows on the wing? Something interesting.

Joe

Frisky, I've seen so many photos of your Drake Hunter-Flite I could fill out a missing persons report on it by memory!

Maybe some folks got to talking about what fun we've had and decided to check it out for themselves. They must not have seen the other thread. Time to go over there and do a "ttt."

Okay, I done it, Frisky. If anyone wants to see more of your Drake HunterFlite photos, they can do a key word search on "Holy Grail."

Feathers should be chiming in when he finally wakes up--he's been getting up purty early to look for turkeys, I bet. I'd ask him to post some photos of his bow, but if you've seen one BW you've seen 'em all.

But when it comes to clubbing Jawja hawgs, that's what you'd want.

FM bought a 48" bow that weighs 14 ozs, lol! He's so used to shooting a club, I bet this new bow has him selling the Widda. We'll have to wait for him to report on the new one.

Took time to look at your other thread with the pictures, Frisky.Nice bow.

Feathers, I made a strong case to "inherit" Frisky's bows if only because of all the great advice I've offered him. The main one being, "Why don't you head down to Jawja and go swamp surfing with Feathers and Nolzy?"

My influence around here runs deep. FM bought a "blind" bow because I told him shorter bows are more easily shot low to the ground. However, he couldn't find a Hunter-flite and now has to put in special training just to shoot the thing he bought.

Joe

Don't blame him--those shorties are easier to convert into a crossbow--not that I've done it myself. But that would solve the "sore shoulder" problem Feathers got. He just needs a 2x4, a hand saw, and a couple nails! Next he'll be wanting a special season to use the contraption in!

After the gubmint gets done with me today, I'll be ready to hide out in the swamps for awhile myself. Might need to borry that BW that Feathers uses to club hawgs with.

His new-to-him Sheepeater would be a good proddin' stick, though, I bet.

I shot the Grail again today. This time I used 500 spine Easton PowerFlights with three different point weights. Arrow weight was about 270 grains plus the weight of the point. 2" Blazer vanes were on the arrows. Points weights tried were 125gr, 175 gr and 200 grains. Surprisingly, the 125 grain points shot best. Flight was very fast and straight, but I didn't shoot well this time. I tried a new glove and didn't like it. I'm going back to my old Bear Master glove for tomorrow. Just goes to show that even a magical bow can be tough to shoot well if you have crap for a glove. On a positive note, I saw a young groundhog that might become supper this June. I've always wanted to try a nice groundhog meal and it will be good practice hunting with the Grail.

Joe

Joe, I learned way back in the 1960's, when I was making the "Holy Grail," that it was hard to be accurate with a 4-foot 6-inch bow!!!

LOL! I realize some can't shoot 54" bows with accuracy. However, this has never been a problem for the Mighty Hunter of the North. The damn glove wouldn't give me the deep hook I like. The first time I shot the bow, I was right on the button but at only 21 yards. This time, I started worrying about the new glove and I wasn't very accurate. Today will be a different story, as the Grail comes into its own!

Joe

I just got in from shooting the Grail again. Should have brought a camera. My first group was done snap shooting and really rushed. Distance was once again at 21 yards. My group was around 12 inches, spread horizontally. It was with a mix of carbons and 1978 Bear cedars. The surprising thing was the half dozen cedars, crooked points and all, were in a centered 6" group. I went back and took my time and shot two carbons. They fell 5" apart, horizontally, and the bow was loud and shocky. I got to thinkin' Skookum skunked me. I then shot the cedars into a group just under 4"! I've shot better, but I hadn't even warmed up. The neat thing was the bow had no shock and was extremely quiet with the cedars. Shot after shot, I piled the cedars right in the 4" bullseye. My next task is to tune the carbons so they shoot as quietly and accurately as the cedars. That shouldn't be hard. I should get even better grouping. I noticed I get no finger pinch. The bow is about as easy to shoot as my 60" bow. I used my Neet shooting glove this time. It's too thin for my 54" bows but protects my fingers with the 45 pound Holy Grail. One interesting note is that when I went over to pull out the arrow, after my first group, an American woodcock took off from three feet away from the target!

Joe

I meant too thin for my 54 lb bows.

Skookum--

Should I loan Frisky one of these "full-grown" bows like you used to make, to help him get that woodchuck he's after?

Kerry

Crookedstix, it wouldn't do any good to loan Frisky a REAL bow. What he needs is a good set of "Big Boy" arrows with real feathers and real points.

It's quite telling that the woodcock felt safe roosting next to his target...

If I had seen that woodcock sitting there, it might have been blunted. I don't think it's in season though. Woodcocks have white leg meat and dark breast meat. Their brains are positioned upside down compared to other birds. They are said to be a delicacy, though not as good as ruffed grouse. An Indian legend says they were made from spare parts.

I believe the reason some folks can't shoot short bows well has to do with genetic inferiority. Too long a draw, too stubby in the fingers. Maybe even cognitive impairment. Now, my Grail is an original. Using a precise AMO method of measurement, it comes out at 54 and 5/8th inches. That extra length over the cheap copies that came later is the difference. I love shooting my Grail bow!

Joe

On the question of arrows, it is true 2" vanes have no place in bowhunting with recurves, though I'll probably get them flying great to at least 40 yards. That said, I managed to collect a bunch of turkey feathers and might make some up for replacements on the carbons with the Blazers. I think this very special bow will stack many different arrow spines and materials close together. It, like the Deathmaster, doesn't seem fussy. The greatest bows have that quality. Of course, most of you shoot junk and have no idea what real quality is all about.

Joe

Frisky, you need those turquoise-colored banana-shaped fletches being offered on the May Swap-n-trade thread. They'd be way better than those 2" vanes and would match the glass on your Drake.

Now jump to it before they're gone!

I'll go take a look, but I don't think they're my taste in arrows.

Shot the Grail again. Shot 470 grain arrows. The bow is quiet with heavy arrows. However, I'm inventing new brush buttons and string silencers that should make quietness a mute point. Pardon the pun.

Joe

Those are neat feathers and I think I have a never used 60" endless loop string. I'm pretty sure I do, but I don't have a LW clamp. I'd have to get a clamp or put them on straight. I bet he already traded them though.

Joe

Quietness is always a mute point Frisky. It can also be a moot point too. I take it you are liking that Drake? 8^)

I got it right off but figured it was an accident. But you might have to 'splain it to The Merchant of Feathers.

Speaking of feathers, you gotta have those. Mebbe you could work a three-way trade the way the Twins do to get rid of their best players!

LOL! George, after I posted, I didn't think you'd catch that.

I'm so sick of the Twins. They suck again.

If I got those feathers, I'd have to make up some arrows, as they wouldn't look good on carbons. That's more expense that really should go into research and development of my new brush buttons and silencers. I'm thinking about it though. Always thought banana fletch was pretty neat. These are short and sleek bananas too.

Joe

I don't know who came up with that shape, but I noticed on one of Byron Ferguson's utube vid's that he uses them. Figgered they might help Frisky's shooting!

fred, why are you stoking frisky's fire? his "bow ego" is large enough now! sorry i didn't make it to the banquet in february. the roads were just to dicey for driving.

Frisky,

There's a LH jojan fer trade, too. Bet you could pick that up. Mebbe someone like me would lend you a LH clamp.

Larry- He's not feeding my fire. He threw cold water on it! How would you like it if someone said one of your bows was made of African crapwood, lol?

Backcountry- If I got those crappy feathers, I'd put them on with a straight clamp or buy a LW and have them all.

Joe

Well, Frisky...if you're gonna have a bow made of African crapwood, what could be cooler than shooting arrows with fletchings that match the porta-potty green glass? I mean, c'mon!

Besides, Featherz will be jealous as well as amused at the irony.

I did contact the trader. I don't think it will come to anything.

Joe

Go for it, Frisky! Who else on earth would want turquoise banana fletching? Three fletch with a natural barred cock feather would look great.

Haven't heard yet. Really, I probably should keep my spare string and leave the Blazers in place. I think they'll stabilize a broadhead to a maximum hunting distance. In the cover I hunt, a really long shot is 30 yards.

Joe

Nah. Blazers suck for trad bows, oops, I mean, IMHO. And since you won't ever be shooting anything besides the grail or mebbe the Deathmeister, you won't be needing that string anyway.

Unless you have a Howard Jet you ain't letting on about.

My spare string is for a 64" 76er Deluxe target bow.

Joe I got another Drake in the mail today and I took one look at the tips and nearly wet my pants I was worried.LOL All my stringers wert working to great so I bared down and yanked on her push pull. Weo I thought that was close. 66" I think its 50 @ 28 I need to weight it. She's a long thin one like a sickle. Its all there 2. Try to get some pictures not sure what model this one is yet either.

Another drake in the house.

Ryman- Sounds like a Firedrake. Usually, they were 48# and under. A 50#er would be great! Tiny tips? The stringer you need is the Bateman. Works great with the smaller than a dime tips on my Drake.

Joe

Shot the Grail again today. Got perfect flight with Easton Powerflight 500s. 2" Blazers with 175 grain points. Total weight 450 grains or 10 grains per pound of pull. Very fast bow! My first group sort of exemplified my early season shooting. I had a bad release on the first shot and went way high. Snap shot on the second shot and went way low. Settled down and put the next four arrows into an inch or less, dead centered. I couldn't have shot a better group! Only 14 yards though. I've been erratic, but it's mainly due to being rusty and also trying out different arrows and gloves. I think this bow is going to live up to its name! I have to get my consistency back before I can post a video.

Joe

Frisky,

You were shooting pretty darn good in the last video you posted.

Frisky, consistency and a 54" flight bow???????????? HA!

Fred

Skookum nailed it!

That bow probably wasn't meant to be shot anyway, but only for a conversation- starter. For that, it's been perfect!

There's no doubt this bow is capable of consistent accuracy with no more effort than a 60" recurve. Some of the wildness I've seen is due to arrow spine (I was testing multiple arrows) and a lousy new glove. I went back to my old glove and have had no problems as long as I keep it tight. I'll be able to shoot it well to 40 yards if the bugs don't get to me. Mosquitos are coming out. One thing that impressed me was the 4 shot group where arrow after arrow looked to be landing on top of each other. The first three punched out a hole in my target bag, the last hitting the center of the hole and shooting right through the bag! Of course, I won't do that at 20 plus yards, but I was pretty thrilled! I guess it was luck, but it shows Holy Grail potential.

Joe

Frisky, I think you are on to something!! I don't know why I didn't think of it... an old glove fitted very tightly!!!WOW!!

I might mention that you will do better shooting one arrow at a time rather than shooting "multiple arrows!" HA!

Ok. Ok. I just got in from shooting. This time, I went with my Neet glove and had problems. I started snap shooting again too. So, I decided to draw back, anchor, hold back tension and count to two before release. Started getting a crappy release and shooting two feet high at 15 yards, lol! I'm telling you, this short bow is not hard to shoot well. I'm having glove problems. Anyway, I do get very good flight. I'll take out my Deathmaster and shoot it side by side with the Drake and that should tell me more. Fred, I do think one arrow per target might be the thing to do for now.

Joe

I think Fred meant just shoot one arrow... period. That way you'll spend less time trying to find them.

Maybe you should try a tab. :)

LOL! What I meant and Fred misunderstood, due to brain deterioration, was I was shooting multiple spines again. All different weights and several differing brands, trying to find what flies best. On a positive note, I haven't missed the target bags even once, lol! Remember, it's not even summer. I still have time to work on things. I'll shoot the Deathmaster and Drake, together, and photograph the groups. That might shed light on the situation. Usually, once I get good flight, I'm not all over the place.

Joe

I'll second what Frisky said about shooting the short bows. I find that I can shoot my Kodiak Magnum every bit as poorly as I do my longer bows; performance is practically identical.

I expect all that will change once Fred gives me that Mojo I'm hoping for...

I'm not 100% sure Fred knows what he's talking about. I'm starting to think he might be a little less than legendary in status. Speaking of legends- so far, I'm the only one privileged enough to shoot at Legend's Range. I named my range after myself, lol!

Joe

Frisky, here's a tip: DON'T SHOOT THE DEATHMASTER AND THE DRAKE TOGETHER!!! SHOOT THEM ONE AT A TIME!!!

LOL! I'm gonna test the two bows and determine if the Grail is faulty or if it's me. I'd say more, but Tippy, my cat, isn't allowing me to type.

Joe

"Speaking of legends- so far, I'm the only one privileged enough to shoot at Legend's Range. I named my range after myself, lol! Joe "

Frisky, the best quote yet.

Perhaps you should let someone like me shoot it to test it's potential, one who is used to handling those high strung phillys.

I don't want the Grail defiled or I'd ship it out for you to test. It could be the sharper string angle is putting a little more pressure on my fingers and causing me release trouble, but I've had ongoing trouble with my gloves, even with my 62" bow. I might have to listen to Phil and get a tab, even if they are for sissies.

Joe

Took out the Deathmaster for the first time. I could barely pull it back and had to snap shoot. Here's my first group at 13 yards. Pretty close, but I'm not ready to shoot the bow yet.

I then took three shots at the coon from 14 yards.

I then shot 8 mixed arrows with the Grail and was all over the place.

I headed over to the chuck and shot again with the Deathmaster.

I then shot my first 20 yard group of the year with the Deathmaster. I'll get much better as my strength increases.

The Deathmaster was whisper quiet compared to the Grail. It's smoking fast! My groups were not the best, but I didn't have a single flier. I made the mistake of not taking along the arrows that shoot great out of the Grail. I stopped shooting it, as they wouldn't group. I'll shoot again, using the Easton Powerflights out of the Grail. The Grail is likely more demanding of release too. If you examine the targets, you can see how badly the Grail spread arrows in earlier shoots. That did stop when I shot the Easton 500s with 175 grain points. I'm going to be able to master the Grail but will have to work at it and maybe try a Super Glove or a tab for a better release.

Joe

Took the Grail out today. Examine this three shot group with 525 grain arrows.

I then shot three 450 grain arrows. As you can see, grouping is ok. Here's the problem. I shot at 12 yards. Even at 15 yards, the groups open way up. I have to work at it yard by yard until I'm out to 20. This six shot group would be fine if it was at 17 yards.

Joe

You named your range, "Joe"? How strange... that's what I call coffee.

Anyway, Frisky, keep up the good shooting. Feathers figgers that 75-80% of your shots into the kill zone at 10 yards is doing purty good. I'd say you're about there.

But you gotta lose those 2" vanes, man!

I hate those vanes, lol! I have flo. yellow and orange feathers, 4 inch, that I could put on the arrows. However, this is a flight bow and seems to like the little vanes. My hope is I'll soon be able to shoot the group size shown at 20 yards. I can do it with my Deathmaster, right now, but I tire out. This lighter bow feels much easier to shoot, but things go all to hell at only 15 yards. It's embarrassing, so i didn't show the groups. You can see where arrows end up at 20-25 yards just by looking at the target, lol! Those huge fliers were caused by my release. I could call them the second I released. I also made some lousy snap shots. I'm weaker than normal and might have to go on steroids.

Joe

Spoke with my neighbor tonight. He insists (without seeing me shoot) that the 2" vanes are what cause me erratic flight from my Drake. He says it could be a number of things, but since I shoot right on with my Deathmaster, he doesn't think it's my form. However, I am shooting off an elevated rest. I do see black from the rest staining the vanes. I'm gonna have to switch to feathers on the arrows and see what happens and report. I have a feeling my neighbor is right, and the arrow is "kicking" off the rest due to those vanes.

Joe

Oh, so now your neighbor is right about the vanes being a problem? Seems as if some of us here have been trying to tell you for months now to lose the vanes!

Some teachers just never learn.

Feathers, you better send Frisky some catfish for brain food, too!

The Grail is starting to show its potential. This three shot group was opened up by the last shot that hit high and right. However, at 16 yards, it shows the bow can shoot. It will just take time. I'm making super grip enhancers for bows. If they work, they'll be the best ever, giving a great, non-slip grip that will benefit this bow. My three arrow quiver will add a little bit of extra weight. I use it for hunting, so I'm putting it on now. A Bateman tab should do wonders to eliminate those fliers. I don't care for tabs, but I have a new device in the works that will make them hunt-worthy. Stay tuned for more!

The mighty One

Can't believe you're still shooting those silly-looking vanes, Frisky. That poor Grail is just begging for some feather-fletched hunting weight arrows shot off its shelf.

What are you planning to hunt with it, anyway--field mice?

Chinese chicken

I had a chance to arrow a real pheasant that came sneaking past me in a posture like Frisky's photo target. That was back when I was a kid and stalked the local yet undeveloped hills and fields with my 40# Indian recurve.

Now you'd never get a shot like that...unless you were inside the pen at a bird farm!

********POSTED BY SKOOKUM:********* Joe, I learned way back in the 1960's, when I was making the "Holy Grail," that it was hard to be accurate with a 4-foot 6-inch bow!!!

Joe here's the full grown version...all 5'10" of it!! A Firedrake Champion formerly owned by Rube Powell.

That's a nice bow with fine limb coloration on the front (back).

Yes, I'm interested in hunting field mice. They make difficult targets.

Joe

Yeah, but you're going to need appropriate arrows and a lot more practice if you plan to take them on with the GrailDrake.

2020 aluminums with 300gr ashby grizzly broadheads should be enough for the mice if you hit em good. B-)

I plan to blunt the mice.

Joe

Those would make a good hunting arrow for mice up close, but I don't think the GrailDrake was designed to handle that much weight. Better to go with something a little lighter and hope you get enough penetration for a good blood trail!

Just got a tab to see how my release works with one. I got a popular one to use to test a new tab device I'm making.

Joe

Well, we finally got a dry day and I was able to get out and try a tab with the Grail. In spite of the smoothness of the release, I still shot crappy. I then made one change and started shooting groups like the one shown, group after group! I was only at 15 yards, so it's nothing to brag about, but it shows the Grail can be controlled. My one 22 yard group was just as good. All I did was stop this snap shooting business and anchored solidly. That's it! Immediately, the wildness (15" plus groups) disappeared! I'm going to put archery's first super non-slip grip on the bow and should be even better.

Joe

Are you going to hunt with those little kiddie compound bow arrows, Frisky? It would be more interesting to see how the Graildrake performs with big boy arrows.

You might surprise yourself and find that your shooting, crappy as it is, may not be quite as bad as you think.

Super non-slip grips have been around forever. It's called leather.

I think he already has a compound, and he's trying to convince us he's shooting those groups using compound-compatible arrows with the Jailbreak, er, I mean GrailDrake! Frisky has gone to great lengths to avoid using appropriate arrows with the Graildrake.

It might have been a nice enough bow had it fallen into the right hands. But alas, Frisky continues to inflict insult after insult on the reputation of this little relic by merely owning it!

First off. Leather was the finest grip material made. It looked the best and does the job. However, I came up with the ultimate grip! My grip causes your hand to stick in place. Leather won't do that. However, if dirt sticks too, I won't produce it.

The Grail shoots feathers fine. It's just that my Easton's are perfect in flight.

Joe

Are those plastic vanes? No wonder.

Get you some 550 to 620 gr P.O. Cedar of Douglas fir feather fletched arrows for that poor 'ol girl. She's not built for them carbon kabob skewers.

And don't grip it. Allow it to rest in the web of your relaxed hand so you don't torque it. A bow is held like a bird. To tightly you crush it, to loosely it flies away.

Those would be pretty heavy for a 45# bow. But I agree he oughta try some nice woodies and maybe fletch them up with 4" feathers.

He ain't gonna be huntin' hawgs with that delicate little outfit anyway!

Stumpy- I have the lightest grip on a bow in the forum. It just sits in the web of my hand. However, the web will stick in place with my new grip cover. No movement at all.

I have cedars with 5" parabolic feathers. However, this 50 plus year old bow prefers modern carbon arrows and plastic vanes. If broadheads fly well, I plan to hunt with those vanes on the arrows. These old coots have it all wrong with using big feather fletching. It reminds me of the idiotic Wisconsin muskie fishermen who used 5 foot pool cue rods and 50 plus pound braided Dacron line. I came along and built lures for use with 20-25 pound mono and 7 foot medium heavy rods. That was before the super lines got popular. I helped change muskie fishing for the better.

Joe

A 4" feather isn't a big fletch. 3" might be enough, but they don't look right on bows meant for grown-ups. Reminds me of the ones that came with my fiberglass Ben Pearson bow and arrow set.

I bet Frisky'll be singing a different tune once he tries broadheads on them arrows with the little plastic fletching.

They should fly fine.99% of what is passed as truth in this forum is bogus. Just be glad you have the myth-buster around!

Joe

Shooting my holy grail today. Cameron

Tip construction on the Root GameMaster. Cameron

Very nice 5 yard group. Also, that sure is one slow, heavily built tip. No wonder those Roots are slow!

Joe

Lmao. Cameron

Actually, that's a very nice group at any distance and a fine bow indeed! That bow was made back when bowyers cared about innovation.

Joe

It has a tip wedge. Smart. And I bet it's plenty fast.

"Tip construction on the Root GameMaster. Cameron"

Mr. Root was a sharp man. I have one of his Warriors and it is a teriffic bow. The high-end Shakespeare line has it's roots in Roots. I've been keeping my eye out for a Gamemaster at a price I could justify.

Yes backcountry it's fast. Shooting a 590 grain arrow. Cameron

This pic is for Joe. Cameron

Bunch of silly old fools...if you look up Holy Grail Bow in the encyclopaedia there is a picture of a 1960 Kodiak

DDave

DDave, whatever your Holy Grail bow may be, this thread is about shooting them. Show us some photos of arrow groups you shot with your bow.

Frisky is trying to convince us that his GrailDrake performs well with arrows typically used by kids shooting their first compound bow. He won't show us how it does with feather-fletched hunting arrows.

Even his neighbor, by Frisky's admission an expert in such matters, has tried to get Frisky to use feather-fletched arrows which would be better suited for a vintage recurve such as the Drake HunterFlite.

Some people are beyond being helped. Right, Frisky?

Great Root logo! Probably the coolest logo out there on bows.

A superior shot does not need to conform to this notion that feathers are better than vanes shooting out of older bows.

The 1960 Kodiak lacks the mystic of a true Grail bow.

Joe

These 590 grain arrows are working for me. Group before breakfast. The wife has got me doing her stuff today :(. Cameron

Pretty soon you'll be breaking all of your arrows and have to go to a three shot group!

Joe

I have an endless supply. I've never hurt a swedged arrow. Beside when I get a group started they just kind of slide in there. Usually about every 20 attempts no point in taking pictures of the normal ones lol. Cameron

Hope that Frisky is paying attention to the arrows Rooty is using.

Notice he is implying he's down to 3 arrows after breaking the others by shooting tight groups? More likely he's lost the rest of that dozen in the backyard weed patch!

Rooty, what poundage are the bows you're using with the 590 grain arrows?

58. Cameron

The arrows for this bow are 28" 2216's 200 grain field tips or 210 grain broad heads. They also shoot good out of a 65# kmag. The Root scales 52 at my draw and the kmag scales 55# at my draw. I am hoping the new scale I got coming has a higher reading. Cameron

Backcountry- I wasn't implying anything, lol! I shoot three only because I'm too lazy to shoot 6. I broke only one nock so far. I'm just saying he might really start breaking arrows, as he's shooting quite a few per group.

Joe

Ha I am too lazy to walk for 3. Trying to burn in muscle memory but like my other memory (goldfish capacity) it doesn't last long. So I keep shooting in the hopes that something will stick. Cameron

Yeah, that was unfair of me--I was the one doing the implying. Stacking arrows like that looks cool but could get expensive!

Hope you all had a pleasant 4th, maybe even got to shoot some arrows. Will be daylight out here for a few more hours, so I might still have time to lose a few in the backyard weed patch.

Just getting dark here and I brought in the flag. Later this week, I'll be attempting to master 15 yards with the Grail. Then I move back to 17. This is a delicate process.

Joe

15 yards? Might as we'll kill with a spear....

Admittedly, 15 yards is spear range, but it must be conquered before 17 and 20 plus. The Holy Grail of Bows demands perfection from its master.

Joe

No, no. This is a valid system.

That's how my uncle taught himslef how to jump 18 feet. He dug a one foot deep hole and jumped out of it for a week. Then he dug it 2" deeper and again jumped out for a week. After two years he could jump 18 feet into tha air!

Oh, I wanted to mention a bit of yellowed finish wore off the Drake on the glass part of the grip. The glass is a beautiful sky blue! The finish has yellowed a bit all over, and there's a big difference between what the bow looks like now and what it looked like new. I'd sand off the old finish and give it a beautiful new clear coat if it wasn't a hunting bow. I might hunt with it for a year or two and then restore the finish to like new.

Joe

First five. Couldn't stop at three. Cameron

Good to see you can take it as well as you dish it out frisky.

I'm a professional disher it outer, so I have to suck it up too, lol!

Joe

For those who have followed my struggles with the Holy Grail of bows not being quite up to my accuracy standards, I've got some more to tell you. I think I tamed the Grail! Today, I set up a target and stood back only 15 yards. Earlier in the summer, I was shooting 15 inch groups at this distance. Sometimes I'd shoot a 5" group and follow it with an 18 inch group. I was all over the place. I couldn't figure out what was going on. Today, I raised the brace height from a bit over 7" to just over 7.5". That 1/2" turned my bow into a shooter! All fliers disappeared and my average group was a centered 4". Not great, but with a bit more tuning, I should get down another inch. I think this Grail is going to be a hunter after all! I went back to my glove too. I'll try the bow with my tab soon.

Joe

This is my personal holy grail bow, Stolid Bull Vanquish from Germany, the most accurate/stable bow I've owned.

Pic is Walkback group every 5y from 15y to 60y unsighted, just one bad release but still kept in the score zone. Not considered a hunting bow but I see no reason why not, a bow project designed for ultimate Recurve stability, balance and accuracy which I took great interest in from when I first saw the blueprints.

I have a wide range of bows from English Longbows to Saluki's they all give great pleasure and present their own challenges, you have to ask what is the holy grail bow, is it a combo of speed, accuracy or just what puts the biggest smile on your face?

Nothing wrong with that bow!

Yesterday, I had my second straight successful day shooting the Holy Grail bow. As I've stated in previous posts, the Drake has been all over the place. Even at 15 yards, 18" groups occurred, here and there, and most groups were in the 10" range. I couldn't figure out how this could be considering it is such a great bow. Finally, I decided not to listen to any of you know-it-alls who had convinced me I just needed to work on my form and also that short bows were inherently difficult to shoot accurately. I knew it was a bunch of hogwash. Anyway, I raised the brace height to 7.5" and had a new bow! 90% of the fliers disappeared and most groups have fallen to 5" at 15 yards, 6" at 17 yards. They need to be tighter, but I'm getting there fast. The groups are now centered too. My Deathmaster can cut those group sizes in half, but it also hurts my shoulder. I think the accuracy I'll get by hunting season is 5" at 20 yards. Since my average shot distance is 13 yards, I should be good to go with this bow. I might also go up another 1/8th" on brace height.

Joe

More grails. Cameron

One more just came in. Cameron

I don't know about that Rooty. They look more like snails than grails to me.

Joe

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