JOHN SCHULTZ, DON BROWN HEAVY BOW EXPERIENCE BY: GARY SENTMAN

The first time I personally met John Schultz is when he had just started making bows for Howard Hill Archery Company in Redding, CA. John had made me a 93# bow and sent it to me in Alaska. That fall I had come to Oregon and drove to Redding CA to meet John. My first words to John Schultz were "You made me that 93# bow, do you remember" John said "Pretty heavy bow, huh" I said "Yah but not bad, I have no trouble pulling it". After a short conversation, John took me into a back room where he had a 154# bow hanging on a rack that was going to Don Brown. He asked me if I wanted to attempt to draw that heavy bow. I said "sure no problem“. We left the bow hanging and we returned to the shop. Shortly thereafter, John excused himself and he replied “I will return shortly“. I did not know it then but John was phoning some of his rodeo buddies and asked them if they wanted to come over for the show. He said "there is this guy, Gary Sentman, that thinks he will pull Don Brown's 154# bow with no problem". John returned to the shop with a sly grin on his face and in very short order his buddies showed up at the door. John got really excited and said "Hey fella's I have Gary Sentman here from Alaska who is going to pull Don Brown's 154# bow." Everyone in the shop but me was trying hard not to laugh out loud. John went to the back room and retrieved the heavy bow. He strung it up with a bow stringer and handed me an arrow with the bow. He said "Well Gary just draw the bow". I drew the bow to the full length of the arrow showing no strain at all. Everyone stood there speechless. So I took the bow and drew it left handed as well. My reply was "The bow is a little stiffer when I draw it left handed". Well this started a close relationship with John Schultz and I that would eventually lead to setting a new Guinness World Record. I met Don Brown later at the $20,000 Las Vegas indoor shoot. They had a speed round event at this shoot and I traveled to Las Vegas to enter it. That is another story. The Don Brown I met at the Las Vegas Indoor shoot was a physically good looking man, dark wavy hair, dressed like a celebrity with a pretty lady at his side. We shook hands and had some friendly conversation. That also is another story. I was very sad to hear from Don Brown's wife many years later that he had died of cancer. A bear claw from the last black bear that Don had killed with a bow is attached to my quiver yet today. Oh well, as Paul Harvey would say right now, “Now you have heard the rest of the story“.

Great story John. Hope you still can make it out to the flight shooting range in Utah. Very few people can pull a heavy bows these days. Jaap

John, Another great story from the past! I wondered IG John Schultz started with HH.Archery down in California and you confirmed it..:)

You drew bows that are almost twice the weight I shoot routinely..I know I couldn't draw a bow near that heavy..:) Jim

Great story I want to hear more of the Sentman adventures!

Gary Sentman here - I am Moosejaw not John. Thanks for the replies.

Gary..:)Sorry about that I KNOW who you are..:)Jim

Gary,

Great story, Have you talked to John lately? I wish we could get John to chime in sometimes.

Thanks, Darren

"Everyone stood there speechless" I have no doubt.

I have been around the Rodeo crowd enough to know what they were a thinkin, they no doubt had to eat alittle crow, Great story, but Gary leave them Bulls and barebacks alone, keep them rollin in, there worth hearin, thanks

Gary, great story. You should be collecting these memories with the aim of putting them in a book.

I like the story also. Thanks.

Thanks for the story Gary. Enjoyed that. Curious what bow weight you shoot for fun and for hunting these days?

Great story guys. For the record, John spells his name Schulz no "t".

Pick a spot, Dean

Gaur: As with age and time, changes are made over the years. The vehicles in demand 25 years ago are not the same vehicles neccisarily in demand today. One of my oldest hunting bows that I have used for many, many years and that I call "Roots" is 68" between string nocks, 72# at 28"s. I will frequently use Roots to hunt with in the fall. Most of the time I shoot a bow for hunting between 58 and 62#'s pull with a 2117 aluminum arrow that performs very nicely with this pull weight. My Icon bow, which is the only bow I have shot for the last 6 months, is 56# pull, 66" between string nocks.

I have found that shooting lighter weight bows has helped me considerably with my target panic problem. I have also found that going too light in pull weight is not a good thing either. One must find their sweet spot that is compatible to their form and objective that they want to achieve.

I plan on doing alot of shooting this Spring and Summer. Alot of this shooting will be at Archery events. I will be shooting no less than 53# and no more than 58# pull for these events.

Thanks for your interest Gary Sentman

Thanks for the response. That Icon bow looks real nice. Thanks for sharing some history and your experiences with us here on the LW.

Thank you for the pics. and story. Hope to read more from you, very enjoyable.

Gary - Thanks so much for the story. Anxious to hear more.

Gary..thanks for the story. I remember seeing the world record bow at the western expo a few years ago and asked you if you would string it so i could give it a try...at the time i could draw 140# on my personal bow....you said something about not wanting to string it at the time....lol...i guess i'll always wonder if i could......

Gary great story!

Sunset Hill: Over the years I've had a lot of archers that wanted to attempt to draw my heavy bows. I can not remember ever denying a person the chance to draw these heavy bows. I do, however, remember many times telling an individual if he wanted to draw the bow then he could string it up.

These heavy bows that I had in those years were very real. Trying to string up a 150# pull bow would destroy most conventional bow stringers. The last time I remember stringing up my 150# Howard Hill bow was at a class I was giving on Introduction to Traditional Archery approximately 15 years ago. I tweeked my back stringing it up.

It literally takes two strong men to string up a bow of that weight. One must step firmly on the cord with both feet, the cord must be a braided nylon cord, not a cheap imitation parachute cord. Then with both hands pulling the bow up while the other guy busts his butt pulling the bow string down to place it in the string nocks.

If I did not have the bow strung up when you looked at the bow this is prossibly the reason or maybe I just didn't want to contend with the liabilities, I am not sure.

John Schulz, the bowyer for Howard Hill archery Co., when making the world record bow had the first one made of maple limb core completely shatter on him when trying to draw the bow 28"s with pulleyes and he and his biggest son pulling on the rope. John told me when this happened he said, "Gary when this happened I had my first doubts that you or anyone else could ever pull a bow this heavy."

Gary

Gary - Great story! Please keep them coming. My shoulder hurts just reading them.

Gary, Your description of stringing heavy bows rings true for me..:)

Years ago I made up a heavy tip to tip bowstringer with 1/4" real nylong line and heavy leather & brass grommets to o floor tillering on some heavy bows in progress.

For me, string a 70" NTN longbow that is over 90#s requires both feet , spaced shoulder length apart on a taut stringer and often, a helper who can follow instructions to slide the string up and onto the nocks.

And I'm not a short-armed or weak fellow.

Just stringing a bow over 100#s is a chore that takes some work...I don't care what method one uses..:)

I have often wondered about that old English adage: A man should have two strings for his bow..:)Probably simply meant that a spare under the archers cap was adviseable.. I have also seen some older English longbows that had a pair of string nocks on each end done in horn..Maybe one was for 'treading the bow'..and the other for the bow's string..We may never know..Jim

Many years ago,I had an old timer tell me...

If ya cant string the bow{Push Pull method}then ya probly shouldnt be shootin it.

Thanks Gary! Looking forward to more stories and pictures!

Excellent story, keep them coming, anything about Hill or Howard Hill archery.

Has anyone talked with John Schulz lately? It sure would be nice to hear some of his stories here on the Leatherwall.

I hope he is doing okay.

Crossed Arrow: The last rumor I heard is that the Shulz family had moved to Hawaii. Nothing positive though. Gary

Cool story!

James schulz and family go to hawaii during the winter months for working vacations..he is a contractor. However the rest of the year he lives in cody wyo.....along with bros. John and thomas.

Sunset Hill - thanks for the update. Gary

Moosejaw, thanks for a good thread. This one and the other related thread are two of the most worthwhile threads to come along for some time.

Definitely the real deal.

I knew Don Brown. Met him when I was a kid when he was working at Hugh Rich Archery (the second location; the first and most famous being on Brand Blvd. in Glendale, CA) off Magnolia Blvd. in Burbank. A strong, keenly dedicated archer and traditionalist in every sense of the word. And, yes, Don did attempt to set a world record by pulling the heaviest bow ever-- DOUBLE his body weight!! Don went on a crash diet together with a brutal weight-lifting routine. He was strong as an ox, true of character and extremely focused. But... he lost too much weight and wound up in the hospital-- Doctor said it almost killed him. Don was going to attempt to pull a 260-280 pound bow. He'd dropped down to 140 lbs. from his usual strapping weight of 195... That speaks of his desire. Don was a rugged individual, always "traditional"-- even when traditional wasn't cool. He absolutely disdained compounds and gadgets, made all of his own equipment, shot and hunted with it. Everything he made was stunning; his back quivers, arm guards and, especially, his wood arrows. I'm pleased to own one of his last custom longbows-- a Howard Hill-style beauty that's 66in. long and pulls 51 pounds. How does she shoot?? Smooth, classic and quiet-- just like the incomprable Don Brown. Shoot straight, rare breed

Don's story was told in the March of 1975 issue of Archery World. Years back, I scanned and posted the cover photo of him. I thought this was a great thread to repost it in.

Joe

I used to shoot a 125 lb bow.

I had the privilige of knowing Don when He had the Black Arrow archery shop in Riverside, Ca. I was stationed at March AFB then and had been in archery about 5-6 years and shot a 60# black widow recurve. I saw his 97# Harry Drake flight bow there one day and asked him to string it for me...couldn't get it to full draw. Later we shot a NFAA field round at the Riverside club and I was amazed at the ease He shot his 121# "target" bow, I beleive He said his hunting bow was 141#. It was fun to listen to His arrows whistle all the way to the target. I got out of the service and left the area about the time He got sick lost all the weight but looked him up again in 1980 when visiting friends in the area. Good visit with a good guy.

Rare Breed: Yes this is the Don Brown I remember. That Hill type bow you have that he made is a real prize.

Joe - great picture. Thanks

How do you guys shoot a bow like that? Do you workout for it or are you just naturally cockstrong?

Don made me a 38 pound recurve. He never said anything condescending about my wimpy bow. Such a great guy that Don.

Mr Sentman,

Just curious, do you still use your springs to maintain your strength for pulling the occasional heavy bow? I had purchased your video, cannot remember how many years ago, but I started using the springs and this was the single most valuable exercise I did to gain bow pulling stength. I would like to thank you, that was a very informative video.

Since we seem to be reviving old threads about heavy draw weight bow lets revive this one...maybe himself will even chime in

DDave

Never shot more than 63# even in my younger days. Some of the poundage numbers make me groan just reading them about them!

My 60# Sentman ("Carbon Deluxe") is my heaviest bow (with other 60# bows). I will think differently about that weight, hearing about Gary's feats.

On the other hand, it's sweet, smooth, as-fast-as-my 60# RDs and fwiw it attracts more attention. Somebody before me named it "Blackbird"...anbody know its background?

thanks for the great post

Hole zone- Glad you enjoyed the article. Here is my two cents worth, we have some individuals with tendon strength and we have some individuals with a lot of muscle strength. Tendon strength applies more to live weight. Muscle strength applies more to dead weight. Back in those years I had a friend that was probably 6'2" and 300 lbs. He could lift a car block or the rear of a VW off the ground. He was tremendously big and strong. I used to agitate him somewhat by drawing my Hill 150# bow both left handed and right handed and talking to him while I did it. The last time I saw him, over 20 years ago, he was still trying to draw a heavy bow but was unable to get past 110# pull weight. Today I'm 73 years old and must be doing something right. I still have no problem shooting a 60 to 65# bow with controlled relaxation. I will probably hunt this fall in the colder weather with a bow of 58 to 63# draw weight. Which I feel is an optimum draw weight regardless of one's age. Moosejaw Gary Sentman

Jk The only information I can tell you on the Carbon Deluxe is that I haven't used carbon in the limb for over 15 years. I found carbon to be very inefficient in my deeper cored limb design. I still have a classic Hill type bow that I named "Roots" which I made back in 1998. The bow draws 72# at 28". It's still an excellent shooter. The limb core on this bow is bamboo and carbon under the back glass. As I recall I made 3 bows at the beginning of the carbon era that I didn't put the carbon under the glass. I know of two of the three that delaminated. I don't remember what ever happened to the 3rd one. I hope your Blackbird bow has the carbon under the glass. Moosejaw Gary

Great Post !!!

Gary, nice to hear you are still shooting heavy bows (LOL..heavy to me). That was a great story. I am ready for more.:)

Jawge

Thanks for taking the time to share your story and pics.

I've watched the John Schultz videos and read his book. My accuracy improved. Watching his young son shoot in the videos is something I made by grandson watch. His young son was very impressive, they both were.

Hey Gary, get busy writing that book of your adventures..

Years back I could shoot 150 pounds and draw with either hand. I exercised with two 64 at my draw Schulz bows, drawing both at the same time. If I were to to shoot much over 80 pounds now days, I think perhaps that important body parts may fall off. 70 is good 60 is better and 50 pounds is a nap in the woods, I like naps in the woods.

More on Don Brown:

http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/TF/lw/thread2.cfm? threadid=271343&category=88#3845411

& April Moon- talk about draw wt. ability vs. mere muscular bulk, this petite woman could shoot over 100 lb. flight bows & set records:

http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/TF/lw/thread2.cfm? threadid=269870&category=88#3817336

Well, of course those links don't work- just put "April Moon" & "Don Brown" in the Keyword box above & check those old threads.

Hi Gary: Had some great conversations over the phone and still have your video's. I remember your strong dedication to fixing target panic. You called the ( Cancer of archery). I am now eighty and still shooting a 42 pound bow on my good days. Fighting cancer of the bone marrow for two years now,and the medication is keeping me alive but lots of side effects. I have enjoyed a life time of archery since the early fifties,and it has been a good run. Have no regrets and am very thankful. It really cheers me up to see the interest in this thread. No disgruntle folks just total enjoyment.

God Bless all: Ron

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