The Classic Bows comparisons to Current High Performance Traditional Bows (DAS, Titan, Morrison, Adcock,etc.) Thread has me thinking that we can offer something to all of you that is truly special and informative. I didn't want to hijack that thread, so here's my offer.

An Opportunity for Leather Wall members and anyone serious about Measuring Single String Bow Performance: If there is enough interest, I'd like to personally invite anyone who would like to: Come conduct a scientific test using all of our resources and equipment, including computers, Easton Bow Force Mapper for draw force curves/Chrono/KE measurement, a high-speed digital video camera to view limb & string oscillation, etc. I'd be more than happy to host an independent testing and actual shooting of as many bows as you wish to test including many of the hundreds of rare vintage bows that I personally own from my families collection going back into the 1800's. Any bow that's safe to shoot at 9 gr/lb., 28" draw will be tested at that; no one will be turned away... you'll have our 5,000 sq. ft. shooting center to do your testing in.

I'd love to have my good friends Limbwalker, Blacky Schwartz, Pete Ward, Bill Krenz, custom or production bowyers big or small and anyone else who wishes come to participate with their built, personal or vintage bows. Not to prove "what bow is best or fastest", etc. but to give Trad Archers scientific, repeatable real-world comparisons for their own knowledge and evaluation of many factors. I have a set of procedures & protocols in mind to provide the greatest consistancy and fairness possible and we'd like to have input from anyone who has something to add in making any testing better. To Show that I'm serious, I'll feed everyone attending and pick up a night's hotel room for the first 8 people who sign up with Lee and bring bows to test at 2 per room down the street here at the(very nice)Country Living Inn www.countrylivinginn.com

Just plan on getting here or close by...we'll even pick you up at the airport(MDT,PHL or BWI)if needed and then you'll get busy setting stick bows up and having a great time shooting and testing them! We might make it an annual Waller's Get-together...post pics and such along with the results...

I'm heading out early tomorrow morning for the ATA Show in Indy, but I'll be back next week. In the meantime, please contact Lee Vivian at [email protected] to discuss the best timing March or later) for such an event if you are interested.

Traditionally Yours in Archery, Rob

Rob, that sounds like something that is long over do, Have you heard of the annual walk the talk event being held by some of our resident bowyers each year. What you are proposing is very similar but a step up. I have a particular interest in the high speed vidios of the limbs ocilations. I have long suspected that heavy outer limbs carry sufficient momentum to pass up the midlimb at the end of the power stroke wasting considerable energy. Would you have any interest in testing high performance primitive bows? Steve

great idea rob. It is long over due. mad props for stepping up and asking nothing in return but knowledge and some new friends.

chris.

great idea. I think a "heavy vs. light" arrow study on penetration and "energy vs. momentum" would be better though. Some people still don't get it, and there needs to be a real scientific paper written about it.

Sounds like a great opportunity! I'd like to come and test some different ILF limbs on my Firefly using your test parameters. You don't have to put me up though. Just have to put up with me!

Isn' this how MOJAM got started? -- around entirely different questions of course -- ya gotta be careful or you might start something.

WI-chemist,

I don't think its that people don't get it, rather that they WON'T get it.

I have been told that using a machine or something to hold a longbow just doesn't work. Something about holding it stable.

To Badger, Wi_Chemist and All; I don't want to take anything away from those who are also doing this or who've done this in the past. I give the WTT guys kudos for their testing last year as the process & results were informative and interesting to study. I'd like add to their efforts by offering our additional resources available to anyone willing to do the work in the eastern US at a great facility. My past and passion is performance and results in archery and in life... that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy hunting for the sheer beauty of God's creations in the outdoors because I value that most of all, but when/if we can get close enough for that well earned shot, we owe it to ourselves to put the arrow where we want it, taking the animal cleanly. That's performance in my book and it fuels my drive to challenge the odds by bowhunting. Any knowledge that enhances and reinforces the confidence I have in my equipment choices, training and each shot and the results of it are worth attaining. That's what I get out of such tests and others of like mind will too...

To be clear... I/we personally would not be testing any bow, you(the participants) would test any bow that you wish based on agreed upon criteria, parameters, string and arrow weights, etc. taking into account brace heights, etc..! Primitive self bows..30,50 or 100 year old bows of yore, anything single string, longbow, recurve, hybrid and "traditional" should be tested for the general knowledge of archers here.

I also agree with Wi_Chemist in that I'd rather be hit in the forehead with smok'n fast pingpong ball than a slow and heavy golf ball any day! Ya' just can't discount the big 'MO ! There is a "sweet spot" where optimal energy meets speed with enough momentum to maximize the benefits of both mass and speed. We archers should be able to develop a test to evaluate that as it relates to the arrows we choose. We can easily do a downrange test of energy retained by using a second chrono simultaneously at 20 yards for each bow & arrow weight/diameter/fletching tested to measure loss of speed/KE, etc...piece of cake, but we might do more...what are your ideas?

Thanks, Rob

LKH - you can use a longbow the machine will hold it just fine. :)

chris.

Throw in a plane ticket and I'll be there!

how about a Traditional Bow Test???

Take it out in the field, shoot animal, it dies, its tested! :) Guaranteed to work.

I wish I could make it.. sounds fun.

TTT for the morning crowd. :)

chris.

Trad_Archer nailed it.

Rob, Thanks for a wonderful offer. Do you have a date in mind? Ross

I sure hope that somebody who is present can transcribe the actual data correctly. A good Photographer would be nice too.

Folks, this is a pretty good offer. Anyone who can get themselves there to participate should really consider doing so. My guess is you'd learn more about traditional bows in a couple of days than you may in a lifetime. And what a chance to actually shoot some classic bows from Rob's collection. That in itself is a tremendously generous offer.

John.

Thanks for the very generous off RobK, I sure would like to attend such an event and hope to make it to WTT 3

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