Today I was at the local archery shop ( I am the ONLY recurve shooter - let alone a Long Bow) anyway, there I am shooting 12 arrows and then take a break and back again over and over. As I got tired my groups began to "open up".....well this "gentleman" shooting next to me with the very latest wiz-bang bow with something like 100% letoff and every gaget imaginable turns to me and say's the following: "You know you would get better groupsd if you went to a RELEASE!!!!!" I said HUH? and he repeated it. I started to say something about traditional archery and looked at him and he was dead searious....so, I had a bit of a chuckle at his expense all the way home......you can't make this s*&% up....a release - on a recurve- - oooook....:):):)

lol

You know what's even funnier??

There are people on this very board who actually use a release. Isn't that a hoot?

Some of these people I happen to respect. So, what's your point?

Your groups probably would get better using a release. They give a perfect release everytime and have minimal contact on the string. But I still prefer fingers.

Daddy, Or, you could put a scope on your recurve,lol.

I've tried it just for giggles. I couldn't make it work at all. They are not real good together IMO.

Historically, there were various types of releases designed for recurves, including caliper and back tension releases. They are now typically banned from competitive shooting so we do not often see them. They are also typically associated exclusively with compound bows and are an important part of compound culture.

With this in mind, DaddyDog's point was that our wheel shooting brother did not understand that it is unusual for a trad shooter to use a release. It was also reasonable for DaddyDog to understand that our wheel shooting brother was encouraging him to use a modern release, designed for compound bows. This would be as anachronistic as offering a cartridge to a black powder shooter.

I think the point is well taken. I get this same comment from a lot of our wheel shooting brothers and sisters. Unfortunately, the comment is often made out of a lack of understanding of why and how we shoot.

My response is to offer to let him or her shoot my bow.

One of the people in our club uses a release because of damaged fingers. Just a couple of weeks ago he put an arrow right through the boiler room on a nice elk. He still shoots a recurve but because of his fingers, well, you figure it out.

Holy Crap.....I thought I was making a joke, at least telling a funny story....didn't mean to hurt anyones feelings....I just never ever considered using one on a recurve......:(

Releases have been used on stickbows before compounds were even around, but they are not a panacea. If you can't shoot without one you likely can't shoot with one, and if you can shoot without one why would you want to shoot with one...

If I ever hurt my hand bad enough I'll use a release on my recurve!I cut the top of my bow hand a couple of months ago with a chainsaw and it made me stop and think in more ways than one!

Better to practice by yourself till you can outshoot the compounders, and don't ever try to reason with the compound guys because it's a whole different language. Just nod a lot and act cordial...

The first year I re-intered the archery scene, I was over at an old friends house, he has shot a compound for years, I'm positive he has not shot a traditonal bow ever. Well, he always means well by trying to tell you "what you should do is...", he suggested I shoot with a release. I happen to respect this man alot, I used to be friends with his son and have known him since I was a teenager. He went into the house and came out with a release that he said he wanted to give me. I tried it out and ended up going back to fingers and finally settled on shooting with a tab.

Some people just have no idea what so ever but they mean well. I agree with the comment about trying to reason or argue with a die hard compound shooter. My best friend shoots a compound and has completely different ideals on certain things but to each his own.

Made up maybe, but good reading...

My son had a bone graft on his right hand this summer. His knuckles were damaged so bad in lacrosse that the bone around his middle and second finger was actually dying. He is shooting his longbow with a release this year.

Okay, time to fess up.

I have had two failed spinal surgeries. The second one was performed by one of the top 3 neurosugeons in the country. serious pain 24/7 but there are alot of people out there who are worse off than me. I am lucky because I can still walk. (not very far mind you).

I consider myself a traditional bow hunter but I can't practice with a longbow or recurve long enough to be confident in my shooting ability. Nor can I use a climbing stand anymore and that was my favorite MO too!

So yes I shoot and old slow compound and yes, I do use a release. My choice was to shoot a compound or give up bowhunting.

Which would you have picked?

-Sharps

2 years ago I put my finger into a circular saw and cut the tip pretty badly. I had a shoot that weekend and the finger was splinted up. I tried a release, but just couldn't get comfortable with it. Instead, I taped the finger into my palm and went from split finger to two under. My shooting improved noticeably, so when the finger was healed I went to three under and still shoot that way.

Dick in Seattle

How well does a release work on a trad bow? Seems like it would have to be cut past center and maybe with a rest. Don't we rely on the paradox initiated by our fingers pushing the string to our left (for righties) to help the tailend of the arrow to clear the rest? Especially for longbows. How would you tune for that? Just curious.

Jim, (DD), I don't see a big deal here. The guy was just trying to help, but obviously didn't know anything about the way that traditional archery is viewed today. I think that you got a good history lesson from some others though. I had a friend that used a relase for a while on his old Bear. He shot well with it, but boy, it sure was loud when it went off. He got lots of snickers from the trad guys and the compound boys. He really got it from both ends so to speak. Anyway, he went back to the compound, and is very good with it. People have a hard time jumping on me, because I shoot trad. and compound. Depends on my mood. Pretty good discussion though. John

What would you call a thumb ring?

- Vic

I bought a release a couple of yaers ago and used it due to carpel tunnel pain.It allowed me to hunt that year,but it was weird being "tied" to my bow and trying to stalk.

Daddy dog, I understood you point also. I think 99% of trad shooters would agree that it is off the wall or out of the norm to use a release on a trad bow. Don't worry about some that jump on you for making a comment. Seems like some just want to state how much they know. I realized you could use a release on a tradbow, but if I had the same thing happen today as you, I would chuckle a little too. Not because using a release on a tradbow is impossible but because the guy had no concept about the effort and what it takes to shoot a tradbow effectivly. Simply using a release isn't going to be some cure all like he may think. Unless of course it is needed to shoot because of an injury. Steve

I had one guy at the local range offer to sell me an older compound as its just too bad I cant afford a better bow than the old bear recurve I was shooting.(didnt want to tell him I had two custem recurves in the truck that each cost as much as a compound with all the gadgets)

saw a pretty old fella shooting a longbow with a release at a shoot - someone asked why - he had arthritis real bad. I would do it too before going back to the compound.

ERIC

You know, DaddyDog did make an effort to go so far as create another thread and make an apology for what he said here at the beginning. Lighten up.

Blacky Schwartz (isn't that his name?) in his regular Traditional Bowhunter's column always test bows with both finger and mechanical release.

Years ago at an indoor range I was told the same thing. that night I was playing with a BW target bow, he also advised me to get a compound and insisted I try it. His release was one that you held with your shooting fingers and released with the thumb. I pulld it back lined the peep, sight and target all up and then let go of the release. It bounced off the bow and stuck in the ceiling tile, while the arrow skidded across the floor.

Some guys use releases for different reasons. Every notice how many used bows have sight holes in them?

Years ago one of my friends had resurrected his old Bear Kodiak after 20 years and had been out of archery since he put it away. When he went to the local shop to get arrows for a shoot with a bunch of us for our men's church group, the shop got him to buy a release for his recurve. It was a little red Hot-Shot release. I was like Dog, I hadn't ever seen, known of, or even imagined one could use a release with a recurve. It was kind of like putting a spinning reel on a cane pole. He was so comical and shot so strange with it that it was Very Very Funny to watch. Now, I'm not "slandering" archery or anyone, It was just crazy to see such a sight. Like me, most of us may not know that releases were once made for trad bows (I have a hard time with bekieving it) and it is evident why I've never seen one used in such a way since. Give Dog a break as he had never heard of a release for recurves in his archery life until that day it seems...So...it was very strange and very funny. Let's laugh along and move on.

I don't know, guys. Without some physical necessity, I can't think of one reason to use a release. You either like traditional or you don't. If you can't release a bowstring properly with your fingers, you can learn. If you're trying to make it easy, go to a compound where it is really easy. Why blend the two traditions? I don't understand why anyone would want to do that. Where is the tradition? Where is the joy of fingers on the string? How would using a release on a stick bow be enjoyable?

I agree - lighten up. DD was relating a funny story. He apologized on a separate thread in which he states that he is a new shooter. I think that DD should be welcomed and encouraged as opposed to chastised.

I like what Stick'n String said.

I taught hunter safety for years and was surprised to find there is a whole, post compound generation that that only know wheels. Some have never held or even seen a traditional bow and have never even known of their existence. Surprising to us traditional guys, but true.

When I have been told I could shoot my stick bow better with a release I understand the advice is given from a non trad guy who likes his equipment and has little knowledge of mine.

When given this advice I smile and say; "I shot wheels for 18 years, the last 5 or so with a release. I made bad hits on deer when I touched the trigger before I was ready, misplaced it several times, dropped it out of trees and was hindered by my dependence on it. My fingers have never failed me".

Daddy, I understood what you meant. it seems if you shoot "traditional", the world out there wants to help, advise, point you in the "right" direction, etc., as if you don't know what you are doing.

Guys at work refer to my "old fashioned" bow and wonder if a bow "like that could kill anything?"

I was in a local small shop (I was buying a stand, but it's a compound dealer), and when he found out I shoot a recurve, he told me if I shot his type of bow, I'd be "guaranteed a kill out to 60 yards"

His bow had more "stuff" clamped to it then I'd ever seen on a bow of any type. Speed? Something like 300 fps, too.

He chuckled and said that he "started with a recurve". and he was not trying to be insulting, but I just think if you want to use a scope and all the toys, use a firemarm, but that's just my opinion.

Many different ways to skin this cat, but I'd rather hunt with a bow, and keep that bow simple. To each his own.

I think most of us shoot recurves and longbows for the simplicity we find with them. That is why I don't consider using a release or sight--or shooting a compound for that matter. I wrote on another thread about how a hunting camp neighbor, last weekend, shared how he broke his sight on his first day out of a 5 day backpack hunt. I would be worried I'd forget my release at home. that's why I shoot with fingers.

Mike

I felt guilty when I made a little makeshift pinsight to stick onto my longbow... don't think I could bring myself to use a release except, God forfend, for medical necessity.

The point of the story is valid, though... helpful advice from a compound shooter is often quite droll in its naivete.

It'd be the same as a rifle shooter saying to a compound guy "You know, you'd be a lot deadlier in the woods if you used a gun!"

(replies in his best Ed McMahon voice) Yes... you are correct, sir!

I would've just handed him my bow and said "show me".

I'm always up for learnin' somthin' new. :-)

My shooting started to go bad this year, sometimes I have a perfect release, other times don't. Been having some arm pain also. I was just told I have Carpel Tunnel. It is causing my fingers to not open the same everytime. I'll probably go to a release aid. Does that make me less of an archer then you?

JMP

If you're right handed, pick up real lightweight lefty and try shooting it with fingers and then a release. You're weaker, uncoordinated off hand is in trouble when it comes to release time. To me, a release (device) is a tool to accomplish the result. They are useful, when needed, but just another thing to complicate the process if they're not needed. Have a smooth release.

Sharpster,JMP-do whatever you've got to do to stay in the woods. Everybody here is going to have to face changing physical abilities, for whatever reason, at some point. No shame in any accomodation to that.

Back during the 1960's, CR Learn, a writer for Bow and Arrow Magazine, used a bow lock. It was just a piece of wood with a ledge cut out to pull the string. You released the string by simply twisting the device.

Not all releases are mechanical in design.

Here's your sign.

There is no shame in hunting ethically and lawfully. What you hunt with is nobodies business but your own.

"Blacky Schwartz (isn't that his name?) in his regular Traditional Bowhunter's column always test bows with both finger and mechanical release."

I believe Blackie uses a release to insure absolute repeatability in his testing procedures, and to show the ultimate potential of the bow and design within those parameters. There is just to much inherent variance in finger releases to get exacting figures.

My father has started using a release due to the arthritis in his fingers. He hurts so bad he can't reach his anchor point and was developing TP, the release allows him to continue to shoot his traditional bows where the arthritis would have caused him to have to give them up. I think some of us try to hard to define traditional archery and make it conform to our own little box. As far as I'm concerned, if it doesn't have wheels, cams, cables, or a gunstock it's traditional. It may not be primative, but it's traditional.

Doent Arvid from blackswan bows hold the world record for robin hoods using a recurve or longbow with a release?

back in the fifties and sixties when pistol scopes were the rage you could see them mounted on bows shooting the field, york, and american rounds. you could also see great shots using different kinds of release aids. the term "traditional" may have come after compounds, but people were using anything that let them get the job done long before the compound bow was devised. that was what was really "traditional", whatever that means.

Releases have been around longer that compounds,, they must have used them on something.. I remember playing with them back in the 60's. A couple years ago there was a rather lengthy thread about using releases with long bows and recurves.. If I remember right there were quite a few guys using them for various reasons.

yep to Earl E Nove...mber , have seen recurve shooters use them[ they had their reasons] so........ what exactly is the big deal?

Thanks for the support Huntryx.

The wall is full of decent, good natured people who generally respect each other and most have at least some level of tolerence for what equipment other "traditional" hunters may choose to shoot, including releases.

Trad bowhunting is better defined by the hunter's state of mind/attitude than by looking at his/her equipment.

If you want to see some real intolerance, go over to archerytalk and suggest anything that might rub the wheelie guys the wrong way. Then look out! They will eat you alive!

Like I said before, I shoot an old slow compound and I use a release, but in my heart and mind I am a devoted traditional bowhunter.

-Sharps

To an experienced compound shooter not versed in traditional gear use, it sounds like good advice. Most of us might not think so, but we have experience and knowledge that he does not. How would he know? Give the guy a break....would you want him making fun of you on some high-tech compound thread because you didn't know the best way to properly set up your drop-away rest or install your peep site? This guy was trying to help you - so whay slam him?

I gave the release(concho type) and recurve a try several years ago. Just wanted to see for myself. Even wrote about it here. Wasn't impressed enough to try and become better with it. I'm thinking that I could, if I REALLY wanted to.

But I will take the gps, thermacell, gore-tex, atv, and scope over the others. Why? "Cause "I" tried 'em and liked 'em better.

Never used a ML, so I can't give good advice with sabot or any other bullet in one. Maybe one day, though...... :-)

Sometimes the best way to learn something is to actually do it. Sometimes not. Free will?

Daddydog, tell the smart-a$$ compound shooter he'd probably group better with a rifle. You would think an "archer" would get the concept of deliberately choosing to hunt by a more challenging method. If the idea is just to bring one home every time, spotlighting them at night from helicopters and shooting them with machine guns would be the way to go.

how do you know the compound shooter was a [as you say, smart-a$$] maybe he was actually trying to help, were you there? May all the egotistical trad. shooters raise their hand? We all are on the same team!!! But then again some [not all mind you] want seperation , it kind of helps them feel superior or different. not sure why....................

I tired it once. Seemed to shoot way high, it'd take some getting used to. I still see merit in the idea. With a cut past center bow and flipper rest you could shoot very stiff arrows and I bet groups would tighten up for anyone, even the best finger shooters.

I'm not " dissing" DD -- the earnest, well-meaning but misguided helper is always a source of fun.

But... Remember, that the compound world adapted the release from the pre-compound archery days.

"Some have never held or even seen a traditional bow and have never even known of their existence. Surprising to us traditional guys, but true."...I hunted the first 4 or 5 years with a compound because I didnt know or ever see anyone use real bows...it was like taboo to not use a compound

Here's a traditional release aid predating compounds by at least ten years. Surprising but true. I used one of these for quite a while, it works buy hooking the string and holding tension in your drawing hand, if you relax your hand the string slips away. Works well.

Steve - look like Grog make.

Seriously that is very interesting. What is that - about 3 inches by 3 inches?

LOL, they're only trad if you carve them with a stone knife. I don't know about this one but yeah 3x3 is about right. I wish I had the plan I used to have came out of a magazine article by C.R. Learn and it was on graph paper. Not tough to make and with a bit of practice it works real well, I used it when I was having trouble with my arthritis. On good medication now so I don't use one anymore.

I'll add one more ditty then duck and run... If you can shoot 12 arrows to and end and not ruin fletch, nocks and what ever, a guy may want to look to tightening the group about any way you can.

I could cut one of those releases out in a minute on a bandsaw. How exactly does it work, a little rope around the wrist would keep it from dropping? Very intersting. Mike

You just palm it in your right hand although you could add a cord or some such. Notice how the second fingerhold is a sort of fulcrum for the weight on the string hook? The ball of your palm against the backside of the bowlock and the tension of the index and middle finger keep the string hook in place. It helps to practice with a light draw weight bow at first until you gain confidence. Grasp the bowlock firmly and hook the string just under the nock, draw the string while maintaining slight pressure against the bowstring and a FIRM grip to keep the bowlock from rotating in your hand. I practiced releasing from about half draw until I got the hang of it and then it's as slick as pipe lube. Release is accomplished by a combo of back tension and relaxing your hand, just like a finger release.

Anything that allows you to shoot more and learn more about archery is a good thing in my book.

Fita recurve unlimited. do some homework

Horn release.

Hey! Grog now enterpreneur. Hope high tech not get Grog kicked out trad hunter circle.

MarkD.....

That was an awesome post!!!

Tremendous use of logic.

MarkD...I disagree with BearBow your "logic" is ridiculous, unless you were joking?

BJ, how is it rediculous? I see the point he is trying to make, and it makes incredibly perfect sence. A release is nothing more than an aid to assist in shooting a weapon...just like a scope is an aid in place of iron sights, a gps is an aid in place of a compass, et al.

Once again...the "you do it my way or you are wrong" beast rears it's ugly head.

Are you saying your groups got sloppy because you were tired? Who's doesn't, right?

What's a release aid going to do for you when you're struggling to keep the BOW steady? Shoot your routine and stow your gear. All's well with the world.

I think the compounder's advice was in ignorance and quite funny.

You should've asked him if he could draw his bow straight back to anchor without torquing his form or rolling his shoulders.

You ever notice these guys? They boast a 70 or 80 pound draw weight on their compounds but they can't draw it correctly. THEN when they decide they need to let down, it looks like the bow's gonna throw them ten feet. Go ahead and stand up for them. I KNOW what I SEE. All you compound advocates know it too. Yet, you'll say we've all got to stick together. Sure we do. I agree, but how many moms truly think its okay for their kids to smoke or chew tobacco? Aw, its not hurting anything, right? Not right NOW. Well, its about the same with these compounders. They'll roll that shoulder to get to letoff, or they'll point it at the moon and cock that hip. Once at letoff a 4 year old could hold the string back. Meahwhile, that rotator cuff just grinds away with every draw.

I don't think a release aid will keep one from expending one's energy.

And I don't mean to sound anti-compound; I'm not. I'm just saying the original post was justifiably funny.

Its not. Its the use of bad form that causes the harm. Same would be the case with a stickbow. Just that the letoff of a compound gives the user the false sense that he/she can handle a heavier weight than they should. I know, I went there myself.

My wife had just won the NFAA Mid Atlantics Indoor shooting fingers and a compound after only 2 years of shooting a bow. She was very proud of her score when some walked up to her and said "You know, if you shot a release you would be shooting perfecect scores."

My wife didn't know anything about equipment controversies or any of that type of stuff....She look at the guy and said "If I want to pull a trigger I would have take up rifle shooting"

I still laugh when I think about it.

I like those posts showing the 'primitive' releases. Of course, I'm going to have to make one now and try it out!

Mark, I agree.

JimE, that was funny. And a good point. Smart lady.

But, its okay to hunt with a traditional longbow and cedar arrows too: No sites, no release, no gps or compass, not climbing stand or pop-up tent blind. Just the brush, bow and arrow and you.

Its okay.

just a note on release's and traditional gear.

Considering them time frame as follows is preglass era.

Releases, otherwise known as clutchs were first patented on apr 6 1880 by Jacob David, patent was filed on dec 11 1879.

These clutchs were used just like our modern day releases are. YOu can find photo's of them in Elmers Taret Archery, page 273, and read about them on page 297.

They dont go into talk about using them for handicapped string holders...instead "to be rid of all the difficulties inherent in loosing the string by the fingers, the american has frequently resorted to mech devis, some of which work to well to require apology." etc etc etc

Just a short history lesson for anyone whose interested.......

Markd....I knew EXACTLY what you were saying!! It was brilliant!!

BTW....just for the fun of it.....since I also shoot a compound (OK....group "gasp")....I have a release.

So...I took my Blackwidow out to test out the idea.

Like someone said...it is certainly "do-able"...and if you are used to shooting instictive....you will certainly need to shoot a lot to let your mind re-adjust.

If it keeps you in the woods....and you don't want to shoot a compound....go for it!!

"to be rid of all the difficulties inherent in loosing the string by the fingers, the american has frequently resorted to mech devis, some of which work to well to require apology."

I love that quote!

markd...Ok that explains it...thanks

Well do to old hand injuries ive made a Bowloc release.kind of scary how well it works.Anyone else shooting and hunting with one. Acuracy really improved by leeps and bonds.

I don't use this one.... but I think it was around before compound bows arrived.

A release may also help those who can't come to full draw beacuse of target panic. Just a thought.

DaddyDog, I'm sure he ment well, but the next time someone says that to you, just say: All I need is just a little rest.

Bashed my third index weeks ago.

Still a little twichy.

Guess the jokes on me, see second post above.

Thanks for the pics PineLander.

Ol' Fred was half a finger short on his right hand and then noticed that his left hand was perfect.

Eureka!

Use the left hand!

Bonus - Your right hand's knuckles make a great rest, and you always carry them!

My friend's father, a pioneer of archery in MD, shot a release with his recurve in the 60s and 70s. He had a medical condition which caused him to shake and the release helped the shaking so he shot it. In fact we nicknamed him "Shakey John" and he could shake the arrow right into the 10 ring.

I tried one in the 60s and almost knocked myself out when it went off prematurely. Cured me of ever trying one again.

Saw a guy at a shoot today pull the little loop off his compound string with the release and broke his front tooth. I think they were invented by a dentist!

If it works for you and its legal, and you can make an ethical kill with it. then don't worry about what others say. Its Archery and that is the sport I will continue to support and participate in. Reguardless of others opinions.

I haven't read all of the above post but back in the day, The Wilson Brothers of Black Widow Bows developed a release for shooting recurves.

Someone out there might have an old Black Widow Brochure that has pictures of it; I do but can't post them.

Pinelander that release was used by old flight shooters, not very good at history but I believe a few hundred years ago. Steve

A buddy of mine just got into Trad Archery and was gonna buy a recurve and went to a local "chain" sporting goods store and told the guy he wanted to order a Martin Recurve that he saw in a catalog. The guy asked him why...my buddy said because his money was green and that was what he wanted to get into. The guy asked him if he was gonna hunt with it...my buddy said maybe, if he got good enuff with it. The clerk says for him...not to bother because "those recurves and longbows are only good for shooting paper targets" and that he would "never be able to get the arrow to go in deep enuff to kill an animal" My buddy was shocked and the clerk added "maybe a housecat or two, but never a deer, you should look at one of our Martin compounds over here on the rack" My buddy told him that he had a friend who had killed deer (me) with a longbow and that he was going to tell me what he said and that I would be in to talk to him. The clerk left my buddy standing there and went in the back and my friend left. Shocking to say the least!

I remember the old releases and people using them with their recurves. The guy is probably right, you or anyone else would likely group better using a release, he was probably sincerely trying to help, and he's obviously not familiar with the required non-tech nature of the current 'traditional' way, or the restricitons many of us prefer to adhere to....most people aren't aware of this.

Where is the trad police when you need them?

They are down at the donut shop eating donuts.

Had a buddy in Indiana who shot a release, because his shooting hand with just a thumb and index finger. Lost the rest in a bailer accident. His bows were all around 85#.

I purchased some old archery mags from 1964 a while back, guess what? Scopes,stabilizers,release aids, they were using all that crap on recurves 50 years ago ,before"traditional" archery existed. To each their own

Doesn't 50 years ago qualify as traditional, or do we pick and choose which gadgets and equipment qualify? Sounds like an assignment for a seasoned trad police special investigator.

Sure are a lot of thin skinned release shooters on this trad site. 8^)

Alright, I have shot a release on my compound for years. Even tried it on my recurve, but the Concho release doesn't like the heavy weight that the recurve has at full draw so after letting fly with a misfire which ended up with an arrow sticking in the top of my six foot fence I decided that experiment was finished.

Choctaw

I tried this one many years ago before compounds. Didn't like it.

Doesn't a glove or tab make the string slide more smoothly from your fingers. And doesn't the Hill style shooting glove have somekind of whale bone, or plastic or something that keeps it from developing a crimp at the finger joint thereby dragging the string and increasing string amplitude?

Yep, unless you shoot bare fingers, you are using a release. Don't deny it, you know you are. Oh, you may say I'm just protecting the skin on my fingers from being injured, but you know that a good glove or tab helps with the letting go process, and is therefore a "release".

Hah hah hah.

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